People are always talking about the flaws of the ToP arc, so let's talk about its strengths

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People are always talking about the flaws of the ToP arc, so let's talk about its strengths

Post by Asura » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:38 am

There's a lot of hate out there for the current arc, at least on these forums. Some even call it the worst arc in the entire franchise (Even worse than GT's Super 17 arc!), and no, I'm not making that up or exaggerating the statement. The ToP undoubtedly has its fair share of flaws, and it's fair share of writing decisions that make you want to scratch your head and ask why. There's a lot of potential that's been squandered in this arc, and as a result a lot of disappointment. Despite what some say though, this arc isn't the spawn of Satan (or Mr. Satan for that matter), and while there might be a lot of things this arc does wrong, there's also a lot of things this arc does right. So without further ado, here is (in my opinion) what makes this arc good.

Concept

Nothing like the Tournament of Power has ever been done before in Dragon Ball. Nothing has even come close to the idea of the Tournament of Power, which is essentially a battle royale of eight teams of 10 fighting against each other. This means a whopping 80 characters, 65 of which are brand new and have never appeared in Dragon Ball before. Not only is it a battle royale, but it's a battle royale set up by the highest beings imaginable, where universes are pitted up against each other for survival. Ten fighters per team means that our main cast has grown exponentially larger. Goku and Vegeta are the only ones who have ever done anything in Super. Trunks too, but he was only around for one arc.

The ToP has finally given these characters a chance to shine and be in the spotlight again. How long has it been since we saw Android 18 fight? Pretty sure the last time was against Mighty Mask. How about #17? Where's he been all this time? Well he's back now and relevant thanks to this arc. Gohan has been a laughing stock background character for the entirety of Super, and now he's finally getting his chance to shine again. Without the concept of the ToP, when would we have ever seen some of these characters (more than the ones I just mentioned) fight again and be relevant? Since they're all so far behind compared to Goku & Vegeta, there would essentially never be a need to show them fighting and doing anything in Super. The last time we saw some of these characters actually do something was during RoF, and lets just say it wasn't their greatest showing. Some of these characters would never fight again or be relevant again if it was not for the concept of the Tournament of Power.
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Atmosphere

The arc starts off with Goku wanting to go to Zeno to remind him of the friendly tournament they previously discussed between all the universes. Beerus, and even Whis immediately warn him that this isn't a good idea, and Zeno is more dangerous than he looks. Goku's reminder gives the Zenos an idea to have the tournament, and erase every universe that loses because it's revealed he was going to do it anyway. Right away the arc goes from a friendly tournament where Goku can fight strong guys, to a tournament purely for survival over fun (although Goku will still have fun).

The exhibition matches between U7 and U9 take place in this interesting arena with distant galaxies in the background. All of the GoDs, Kais, and Angels from every universe attend the exhibition matches, and what's interesting to note about the arena is that everyone spectating is far above the arena. It conveys the feeling that these gods are so far above and beyond Goku and other mortals, and how it all just looks like a game of Chess to them. This is further emphasized with the fact that the innocent Zenos are making universes fight each other and erasing them for their own enjoyment.

As for the actual tournament arena itself, it takes place in the World of Void, a dark and desolate place with a dreary and dark atmosphere. There is absolutely nothing here, as the name implies, except for a light source, the arena, and infinite darkness. I thought one of the most interesting shots of the arena was the one where the camera keeps going further and further down, and the arena keeps getting smaller and smaller, conveying a sense of dread as to just what this World of Void is. There is no space, just infinite nothingness. I can only imagine how scary it would be to fall off the arena and not have the magical out-of-bounds teleportation take you back to the stands.
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Art & Animation

The Tournament of Power arc is home to the best art and animation Super has ever seen, hands down. The difference is immediately noticeable with the new filter that's premiered with this arc. Things are a little bit grainier, a tiny bit blurrier, and the colors are a lot less saturated. Super had a terrible start, and it's taken them a long time to recover, but there is definitely a very notable spike in quality for this arc. I'm no expert on animation so I hope I don't sound too ignorant in this section, but from what I understand there's been quite a bit of new talent brought on for this arc, and a good amount of outsourcing and planning to ensure that there's more time for the in-house animators to work on the more important episodes. The Sakuga Booru, which is a collection of both images and animation of the highest quality, had 19 animated submissions for the FT arc, U6 arc, RoF arc, and BoG arc combined. There is a whopping 36 submissions for the ToP arc. That means this arc alone has 2x more high quality animated scenes than the entirety of the rest of Dragon Ball Super.

Obviously there's also the special, 109 and 110, which unarguably contains some of the best animation in the entirety of the Dragon Ball franchise, not just Super. No one can now forget about Episode 114, which is universally renown for having the best art in the entirety of Super, and possibly even the entire franchise in certain parts. It'd be nice if I could find an album with some of the best art in this arc, but honestly I think the arc already speaks for itself and people have already seen and acknowledged the amazing art and animation this arc has produced.
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Tension

Now before you see this and go "Tension? Really Asura?" and begin writing your angry comments, hear me out. The tension in this arc is both a negative and a positive. There's a lot of fake tension, but believe it or not there's also real tension as well.

No one knows how this arc will end, and while we obviously know our heroes will live beyond this arc, there's no clear indication of how we'll get to that point. Victory for U7 is certainly not guaranteed, and there's quite a bit of proof that points to Goku being eliminated, and not being the last one standing. Many theorize that Jiren and U11 will win in the end, but who knows. There's also Freeza, who is a complete wildcard that radiates tension whenever he's on screen because it's completely unknown as to what he might do next. I'll get to him later though.

There's not just the tension of universes fighting for survival though, it's also the tension of what's happening outside of the fighting. Ever since his introduction, the Grand Priest has been a mysterious, ominous being with intentions that remain unclear. He has been purposefully drawn in a number of shots to look very sinister. Is he just the Zenos babysitter, or is there something more to this story? Is there some sort of hidden agenda possibly being hinted at here? The mystery around the Grand Priest is only further reinforced after the first universe gets eliminated, Universe 9. After U9 is eliminated, U9's angel, Mojito dons quite a sinister smile. Sure, he's probably happy that he doesn't have to deal with his annoying Kai and his overly passive GoD anymore, but the way this scene was shot with the top half of his face completely covered in shadow seems to imply that there's something more to this story.

Similarly, the Grand Priest shoots Goku a rather smug look after U9 is erased from existence, as if taunting him. Goku has been quite friendly with Zeno and gave him a new friend which the Grand Priest probably appreciates, but what if he's not that happy with Goku getting so chummy with Zeno? Who knows, either way there's a lot of tension to this arc as to how it will end, how Freeza will factor in to the ending, and how some of the Angels might not be what they seem.

Let's also not forget about Quitela, the U4 God of Destruction who was first seen spying on U7 and Freeza. Throughout the entirety of the tournament, Quitela has remained strangely calm, and at times even disinterested. Despite seeing the overwhelming power of Jiren, learning that Goku has mastered Ultra Instinct, and only having 3 members remaining on his team, Quitela still remains calm and uncaring. In episode 115, after it's revealed Potara fusion is allowed, Quitela exclaims there's "no need" to use Potara. Earlier in the tournament Beerus begins worrying about what Quitela has up his sleeve with his two invisible fighters. With all the crazy fights going on and the insane power being presented by multiple fighters like Jiren, Goku, Toppo, Hit, and Kefla, one wonders just what kind of ace card Quitela is hiding up his sleeve.
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Soundtrack

The soundtrack has been nothing short of incredible for the ToP arc. Sumitomo has stepped up his game majorly and Super has gone from an incredibly mediocre soundtrack to something that has really come into its own. Scenes that should just be OK are made to be brilliant with soundtracks that create a great sense of emotion, power, and yes, even tension. A lot of times, a scene is nothing without a great soundtrack. Similarly, sometimes a scene can become even greater without a soundtrack, but for a fighting anime like Super, a good soundtrack is vital and helps you get a lot more invested with what's happening in the show.

A great example of the soundtrack being put to it's most effective use is Goku's initial fight with Jiren as Super Saiyan Blue. The fight starts, and the song starts along with it. Immediately you can tell that this is the complete opposite of a triumphant theme. It conveys a sense of complete dread and terror with blaring horns that echo as Goku is absolutely manhandled and swung around like a ragdoll by Jiren. It helps you know from the beginning that this is a completely unwinnable fight for our hero. (The song can be listened to here: https://youtu.be/0-PDTuIb500?t=109)
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Pacing

This will probably be the most controversial and disagreed upon topic, but just like tension, there's been a lot of bad pacing in this arc, and a lot of good pacing as well. The ToP arc has been all about trying to return to the roots of Dragon Ball Z. In doing so, that means it's also trying to slowly replicate the pacing of Z. Here's how many episodes each arc of Z had:

Saiyan Saga: 39 episodes
Freeza Saga: 68 episodes
Android Saga: 22 episodes
Cell Saga: 54 episodes
World Tournament Saga: 25 episodes
Buu Saga: 72 episodes

As of this post, we are currently 38 episodes in to the ToP arc. However, like the Freeza arc this can be split into two categories, just like the Freeza arc can be considered the Namek arc, and then the actual Freeza arc. The ToP can be split into the "Recruitment Arc" and then the actual ToP arc. The Recruitment Arc lasts 20 episodes, so if we were to count that as its own arc, the ToP arc itself has only lasted 18 episodes, and is stated to be around halfway done (if the tournament isnt interrupted by some outside source, that is). That means we could be going for another 18 episodes or so, but I doubt it considering there's less and less fighters now which means time may pass more quickly per episode. Either way, I for one am happy to have pacing that is somewhat in line with Z's pacing. I wouldn't want something as long as the Freeza or Buu sagas which last for 70 episodes, but I think somewhere around 50ish episodes is a good number. In my opinion, every arc of Super has been way too short, with most of the arcs being in the low teens in terms of episode count. The only exception being the Future Trunks arc which is I believe 20 episodes long, still nothing to brag about.

While the pacing of how the episodes flow in this arc hasn't been all too great, the episode count allows for the arc to be expanded a lot more and feel fuller, which may seem horrible now when you're watching it on a weekly basis, but is great for binge watching to really take in and get invested in the arc.
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Tag-Teams

This one sort of coincides with the Concept category. Having teams of 10 and a bunch of different fighters means that we're going to see some interesting team-ups, and multiple people fighting at once. For the most part, as a franchise Dragon Ball has always had 1v1 fights. The only one I can actually think of off the top of my head before this arc is Goku & Trunks vs Black and Zamasu from the FT arc, although I'm sure there's at least one or two in Z. We've seen multiple tag teams, some expected and some unexpected. A lot of people thought that teamwork wouldn't have a real impact in the tournament and wouldn't be demonstrated that much, but we've actually gotten a ton of tag-teams and team-fights. Here's some of them:

Goku & Vegeta
Magetta & Botamo
Android 18 & Krillin
Android 17, Android 18, & Goku
Android 17 & Goku
Gohan & Piccolo
Kale & Caulifla
Goku & Hit
Vegeta & Roshi
Frost & Magetta
Gohan & Freeza

A lot of these, hell even most of these would be something we'd only think of in our wildest dreams. Vegeta & Master Roshi? Android 17 & Goku? Try telling that to someone 10 years ago and they'd laugh in your face. The ToP has done a good job of showing how teamwork can indeed prevail and just what 2v1 or 2v2 fights look like in Dragon Ball.
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Universe-Building

A bit of a minor category, but still a positive nonetheless. 7 other universes have been explored in this arc, and while they haven't been explored in depth too much, what we got was still interesting and adds to the lore of Dragon Ball. We get to see Universe 11 in detail, with their interesting architecture and planets, as well as Universe 6's Planet Sadala, being introduced to other characters in the universe as well, such as Caulifla, her brother Renso, and her gang. We also got very brief glimpses of U2, U3, U4, U9, and U10. It's not much, but it still adds to the world and makes it feel larger and more interesting.
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Android 17

The ToP finally marks the return of Android 17, and answers the age old question of where he's been this entire time and what he's like now. 17 has been a fantastic addition to this arc, with his deadpan humor and line delivery, and his interactions with Android 18, Goku, Krillin, and to a small extent Piccolo feels natural and makes you wonder why he wasn't brought back in to the cast sooner. What's also interesting about 17 is his strength, which appears to be at least equal to Super Saiyan Blue. This is something that some people aren't happy with, but I think it's an interesting shake-up to the U7 team's dynamic and it makes you wonder how far 17 will go in this tournament. His cool and calm demeanor make you enjoy him every time he's on screen, and the back and forth banter between him and 18 is always a joy to see. #17 has been a great addition to this arc, and has done so well that his presence has saved episodes thought to be a disaster by many, such as 102.

We know that #17 wasn't around for EoZ, but who knows? He could become a permanent member of the cast in Super from here on out, albeit very distant from others. Either way, I didn't care about 17 much at all before this arc, and now I want to see even more of him! The ToP has definitely had characters regress in development (such as Vegeta) but it's also done absolute wonders in developing other characters like 17, Freeza, Krillin and even Goku to an extent.
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Ultra Instinct

It's been long overdue for Goku to get a new transformation. Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue aren't particularly new transformations. We already saw them in the BoG and RoF movies, so there was never that real excitement of having these new transformations going into Super. Furthermore, many people dislike the design of Super Saiyan Blue, which is nothing but a color swap that comes out particularly ugly in some shots (but admittedly can be beautiful in others). Ultra Instinct is a fresh new transformation. Some people say it's not a transformation, but an ability, but I don't care. If it makes Goku look different, I'm considering it a transformation. It's unique looking, with Goku's base hair being slightly spikier and messier, along with an interesting, constantly radiating purplish blue aura. Of course, there's also the very sharp looking silver eyes. It's also interesting how Goku is completely silent during the transformation, except for when it starts to fade and he begins yelling.

Ultra Instinct isn't just a transformation or ability that multiples your strength and speed like every other transformation. It doesn't just make you stronger, it actually has an effect that makes it unique and different to every other transformation. Ultra Instinct is the act of the body subconsciously dodging blows without even using the mind to think about it. In essence, it makes the user completely invincible and unable to be directly hit. So far though, the form has its drawbacks which keeps it from being too overpowered, which is that there is a time limit, and exactly how the transformation/ability is achieved is still rather unknown.
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Freeza

I've saved possibly the best for last. I've always disliked Freeza. I liked him as an unstoppable force that helped awaken the Super Saiyan within Goku on Namek, and just how ruthless he was in his fight. After that though, Freeza just got less and less interesting. He was quickly handled like fodder by Trunks, and had a pretty abysmal display in Fusion Reborn and in GT. Worst of all might be his appearance in RoF though, where he completely bullshitted his way up to the levels of the gods by training... for 4 months. To me, RoF was just a cash cow movie that brought back a completely uninspired villain that just needed to stay dead and be gone forever. When I heard that Buu was going to fall asleep again and Freeza was going to be revived AGAIN and take his place, I was so damn disappointed, and even angry that this damn shitty character was going to come back again and do his same dumb shtick that he always does by being a raging idiot, betraying U7 the first chance he gets, and then gets promptly erased for good.

But I was wrong. We were all wrong. Freeza is a completely new character, and is almost nothing like his previous appearances. He was a raging spoiled brat who ruthlessly did whatever he wanted, and thought that he was the strongest in the world despite being defeated so many times. Goku & Vegeta were still just chums to him, who he even still barely respected in RoF, with his sense of supremacy and smugness over them, confident that he'd win.

Now we have an elegant, calm, mysterious, scheming, and calculating Freeza. His temperament has done a complete 180, and while he still absolutely hates Goku, he has a lot of respect for him and would even take a bullet for him if it somehow meant that he would benefit in the end. This is something the old Freeza would have never, ever, ever done under any circumstances. I've said it before, Freeza is a complete wildcard. No one has any idea what he's up to or what he's going to do. He has his eyes fixed on the gods now, and betraying U7 is not in the cards right now. Every single time he's on the screen he radiates this charisma and charm that leaves you captivated in trying to figure out what he's thinking and what his next move will be.

Freeza has gone from one of my least favorite characters, to being in my top 10. The mystery surrounding him, a character we've all known for years upon years, is 10x more tense and interesting than the mystery surrounding the newcomer Goku Black, which was made rather obvious from the very start. Nothing that Freeza has done so far is obvious though, and he'll keep us guessing until the end of the tournament.
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Conclusion

In conclusion, I hope this has made some people think for a bit and appreciate the arc a little bit more. If you hate it with all your guts, maybe you'll hate it a little less now. Negative voices always shout the loudest, and sometimes it's hard for positive opinions to shine through. The arc hasn't done a great job in a lot of areas, but it's still done a real good job in other areas, and I feel like it's just not appreciated enough for what it's done right. It'll continue to be my favorite arc of Super, and I say that as someone who finds the arc to just be good, but not great. Nothing about Super will ever come close to Z or DB, and this arc is no exception, but I appreciate how far Super has come which has resulted in this arc, and I look forward to an even better arc after this one.
Last edited by Asura on Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:14 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: People are always talking about the flaws of the ToP arc, so let's talk about its strengths

Post by Xeogran » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:42 am

That was a great read :thumbup:

Personally, Tournament of Power is my favoritr DBS arc and it's still far from over. I love all these new, unique designs we got, even for minor characters like Sorrel or Chappil from Universe 9


[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

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Re: People are always talking about the flaws of the ToP arc, so let's talk about its strengths

Post by dragon boss z » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:48 am

But I was wrong. We were all wrong. Freeza is a completely new character, and is almost nothing like his previous appearances
I thought he would act like this from the beginning and I would say Frieza is in character. The only difference now is that he has finally come to terms with that he isn't the strongest. If you look back to how Frieza acted before he was challenged in a fight he acted very similar to how he does now. Frieza's weakness was he was arrogant and blinded by his rage sometimes, but he was always intelligent, cold, and calculating. This was even shown in RoF where you say you dislike him the most. Frieza would of won multiple times over if it wasn't for deus ex machina. He prepared a contingency plant against Goku, which worked but Vegeta and a magical bean saved him, and when he lost to Vegeta he blew up the planet, which was only countered by Whis turning back time. Also back on namek when he realized he couldn't beat Goku he resorted to attacking the planet. I would say the only moment that stands out as Frieza being stupid while enraged was when he attacked Goku after he gave him energy, but I really don't think Frieza was in his right mind then.

But I agree he is also my favorite part of the tournament and I agreed with your other points as well.

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Re: People are always talking about the flaws of the ToP arc, so let's talk about its strengths

Post by Xeogran » Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:02 am

Regarding Freeza: Ever since the spoilers came out, I was one of the minority who was really hyped about his return, and fought the Internet war to prove that this decision will pay off.

Too many people thought he would betray U7 at the beginning and join another Universe.. The fake spoilers of episode 95 with him joining U4 made it even worse back then..

And now here we are, 20 episodes into the ToP with Freeza actually being the most supportive member of the team.

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Re: People are always talking about the flaws of the ToP arc, so let's talk about its strengths

Post by TheMikado » Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:26 am

The ToP is a great concept but it feels like that’s where it kinda faltered. It feels like Toriyama suggested it, wrote down a couple of important fights and left the rest to fill in.

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Re: People are always talking about the flaws of the ToP arc, so let's talk about its strengths

Post by Kataphrut » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:09 am

I have some issues with the arc overall, but on the whole the Tournament of Power has hooked me in like no other arc in Super. Before we get to the positives, I'll just say my two biggest criticisms with the arc (lack of tension and failure to follow through on some of the bolder ideas) are both things that could be rectified before it's over. We're smack bang in the middle of fighting territory at the moment, their are so many things going on and so many plot threads still to tie up that it's understandable if a few things get lost in the shuffle.

I'd say the best thing about the arc is it's complexity compared to other Dragon Ball arcs. Not just in terms of size or scope, but the lack of a clear villain, lots of intersecting character arcs and plot threads, and complicated morality. Normally I can make an educated guess of how most of these stories end ("Goku beats the bad guy" sums up most of them) but I have no idea how this is going to end. I mean, he'll probably get Ultra Instinct back and he *might* defeat Jiren in round two, but beyond that it's really all up in the air.

Other than that, it's a fun romp with strong production values that brought several forgotten characters back into the fray and introduced a couple of fun new ones. I'm excited to keep watching it every week, and hope it lives up to it's potential.

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Re: People are always talking about the flaws of the ToP arc, so let's talk about its strengths

Post by Whatever » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:24 am

1)Goku & Vegeta
2)Magetta & Botamo
3)Android 18 & Krillin
4)Android 17, Android 18, & Goku
5)Android 17 & Goku
6)Gohan & Piccolo
7)Kale & Caulifla
8)Goku & Hit
9)Vegeta & Roshi
10)Frost & Magetta
11)Gohan & Freeza

Out of all of those you said though,only 1,2,3,6,7,10 actually fought together.Tag team fights have been a thing in this tournament but not as much.

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Re: People are always talking about the flaws of the ToP arc, so let's talk about its strengths

Post by Doctor. » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:36 am

Tag-Teams and world building are both negatives. The ToP has done nothing to improve the world, considering the entire concept skims through the 12 universes without properly expanding them, and it has also done nothing in terms of team-ups considering we're just seeing the same Gohan + Piccolo and Goku + Vegeta team-ups we've seen since time immemorial. The pacing is also terrible considering most fighters have been thrown out like trash; there's no excuse for it now that we see the tournament is gonna last a fuck-ton of episodes and people are already complaining that they're focusing on the same characters over and over again. There's no tension for anyone on U7 considering we know how the series ends; at best there's tension for characters outside of U7 but the show hasn't made a very good job of making us care for any of them.

Arc has barely any positives besides the soundtrack and the animation.

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Re: People are always talking about the flaws of the ToP arc, so let's talk about its strengths

Post by namekiansaiyan » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:44 am

The only positves so far are that we get to see other characters even if they do very little and all the nee characters even though they have done very little and some of the new characters that have done something in the are probably the worst new characters.

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Re: People are always talking about the flaws of the ToP arc, so let's talk about its strengths

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:49 am

Well, it was nice while it lasted. I'll try to alleviate that, to the best of my abilities.

====

This arc is one of the strongest thus far out of the current series in my opinion. Scenarios, themes, and ideas that are either entirely new or forgone in the days of DBZ are now at the forefront, characters are truly developing and showing WHY they're such staples in the franchise, etc.

There's just so much, something for ALMOST EVERYONE. The negative voices cry out the loudest as usual, but the franchise has been reaching heights never imagined in this modern battlefield of competing Japanese entertainment with this arc. More people than ever before are tuning in around the world, the series has some of the greatest financial success as of late, and ratings are through the roof.

The fact is, DB is VERY healthy right now, and the Tournament of Power is the biggest reason why. It has so much new stuff introduced for it, interesting situations that can only be accomplished in such a premise, and a harkening back to the good old days of the original series, before DBZ took over as the primary direction. Our favourite characters get to interact with each other and newcomers and are thrust into scenarios we've never imagined, and the unpredictability of everything means the future of the series is uncertain but most definitely bright. The fact that the ending is nowhere in current sight according to the latest scoops is a GOOD sign.

I realize this is more about Super as a whole, but all of what I've said is relevant to this latest main story arc. We're truly in a Dragon Ball Renaissance.

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Re: People are always talking about the flaws of the ToP arc, so let's talk about its strengths

Post by Asura » Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:06 pm

Doctor. wrote:There's no tension for anyone on U7 considering we know how the series ends
That's such a silly statement to make. You may as well criticize the entire concept of the show then just because we know how the series will end. Just because we know Goku and everyone else survives until the End of Z doesn't mean there can't be any tension in the show.

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Re: People are always talking about the flaws of the ToP arc, so let's talk about its strengths

Post by Doctor. » Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:11 pm

Asura wrote:You may as well criticize the entire concept of the show then just because we know how the series will end.
Yes, people have been doing that for two years now.

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Re: People are always talking about the flaws of the ToP arc, so let's talk about its strengths

Post by RedHeat » Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:13 pm

Doctor. wrote:
Asura wrote:You may as well criticize the entire concept of the show then just because we know how the series will end.
Yes, people have been doing that for two years now.
Hmmm....Then I wonder why Toriyama decided to make DBS an in-betweenquel in the first place.
Feels over Reals.

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Re: People are always talking about the flaws of the ToP arc, so let's talk about its strengths

Post by PsionicWarrior » Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:37 pm

Ugh I didn't realize it was receiving that much hate, I mean come on no way anything from GT is better lol
IMO most of TOP's episodes are so-so but it also has some of the best episodes Super ever had, if only there were more of same quality than 109-110 is all I want.

Ps. Great looking OP post :mrgreen:

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Re: People are always talking about the flaws of the ToP arc, so let's talk about its strengths

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:53 pm

* looks left *

* looks right *

* looks over both shoulders *

I think the Tournament Of Power is the best tournament arc Dragon Ball has ever done.

* runs away *

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Re: People are always talking about the flaws of the ToP arc, so let's talk about its strengths

Post by Kanassa » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:01 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:* looks left *

* looks right *

* looks over both shoulders *

I think the Tournament Of Power is the best tournament arc Dragon Ball has ever done.

* runs away *
You mean the Zamasu Arc, right?
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:

Kanassa wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:I hope Mark is dead. But chances are the dragonballs will bring his stupid ass back. :D
- FoolsGil, Out of Context, 2017

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Asura
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Re: People are always talking about the flaws of the ToP arc, so let's talk about its strengths

Post by Asura » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:39 pm

Kanassa wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:* looks left *

* looks right *

* looks over both shoulders *

I think the Tournament Of Power is the best tournament arc Dragon Ball has ever done.

* runs away *
You mean the Zamasu Arc, right?
Ah yes, the tournament to see who could kill mortals the fastest, Zamasu or Zamasu. Quite the tournament it was, although I think Zeno won the finals in the end.

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PsionicWarrior
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Re: People are always talking about the flaws of the ToP arc, so let's talk about its strengths

Post by PsionicWarrior » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:40 pm

^^He didn't say best arc though.

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Re: People are always talking about the flaws of the ToP arc, so let's talk about its strengths

Post by Michsi » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:55 pm

Great post! My favorite thing was the pic with Freeza and his "five minutes" put at the end of the paragraph about pacing to help drive home the point.

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Re: People are always talking about the flaws of the ToP arc, so let's talk about its strengths

Post by sintzu » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:06 pm

I think the concept is a great one and I loved Roshi's episode but apart from that nothing stands out. There are fun episodes for sure but overall... :eh:

In terms of the manga, it started out great with Vegeta's fight against Beerus, the fights between the destroyers was well done and Toppo really the stage for what the other universes could be capable of. Weather or not things will continue to be as good as they are now remains to be seen.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

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