POLL: How do you feel about Kale and Caulifla?

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Re: POLL: How do you feel about Kale and Caulifla?

Post by perucho1990 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:21 pm

Asura wrote:
We're talking about Kale and Caulifla and not Kefla right? Because Kale and Caulifla are nowhere near overpowered, they're not even major players in the tournament power-wise. They got destroyed by an exhausted SSG Goku, (who audibly pointed out their weaknesses) and individually are probably only about as strong as SSJ2 Goku if he wasn't tired. They're actually incredibly weak when pitted against the likes of Goku, Vegeta, Freeza, Jiren, Toppo, Dyspo, Hit, and even Gohan and 17 would crush them.
Thats true, a skilled, powerful veteran would mop the floor with the girls.

The girls badly need to learn some martial arts instead of relying on brute force, even Goten and Trunks had good martial arts skills.

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Re: POLL: How do you feel about Kale and Caulifla?

Post by PsionicWarrior » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:25 pm

Asura wrote:As for Kale taking a Kamehameha from Blue, I refer you to this section of this video: https://youtu.be/BwGKF8_RO28?t=673 (also, not that I was ever a fan of the "SSB Goku is holding back" excuse that plagued almost every episode of the recruitment arc, but why wouldn't that same logic apply here too?)

I'd actually recommend watching the whole video too as it lays down a solid defense of why these characters are not as bad as some people make them out to be sometimes.
I watched a bit then saw he made another video called "power levels are stupid" and decided not to give this guy any more clics lol

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Re: POLL: How do you feel about Kale and Caulifla?

Post by sintzu » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:28 pm

Asura wrote:Unlocking SSJ transformations means nothing...

As for Kale taking a Kamehameha from Blue, not that I was ever a fan of the "SSB Goku is holding back" excuse that plagued almost every episode of the recruitment arc, but why wouldn't that same logic apply here too ?

I'd actually recommend watching the whole video too as it lays down a solid defense...
Goku had to train with his grandfather Gohan, Roshi, Korin, Kami/Popo, King Kai, Train himself, lose countless fights and nearly dying only to unlock the first Ssj. For Ssj2 he had that and 1 year of training after Namek, 3 years before the androids showed up, a year or so with Gohan & at least 3 years in the after life just to unlock Ssj2. For Ssj3 add ALL that and another 3 or so years of hard training and even then he still couldn't use it properly. What took Goku 30+ years of hell (ssj2) was done in a split second because her back was "tingly". You're right about them now, they're nothing but color changes to a Saiyan's hair.

It never made sense in those episodes and it makes less sense here. Why on earth would he power up to Blue which was established later to take up power and he wanted to save it just to hold back against someone who could've knocked him out of the ring ? This shows how bad and all over the place super's writing has become.

There's plenty of defense going on here for me to see, there's no need to look on Youtube for it.
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Re: POLL: How do you feel about Kale and Caulifla?

Post by namekiansaiyan » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:32 pm

These 2 are 2 of the worst things of this arc.

Why did these 2 of all characters have to get all the screen time.

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Re: POLL: How do you feel about Kale and Caulifla?

Post by Alruneia » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:00 pm

Final results of my own poll:
The percentages I posted after one hour are the same as the percentages after the full day. 43 % like, 57 % percent dislike. It feels like I posted an exit poll or something. In the end, 413 people voted, so to be specific, that's 178 votes for like and 235 votes for dislike. So it seems the reception is more negative on Facebook (at least the chunk of it I'm a part of) than on here, though it's a pretty even result.
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Re: POLL: How do you feel about Kale and Caulifla?

Post by Asura » Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:35 pm

sintzu wrote:
Asura wrote:Unlocking SSJ transformations means nothing...

As for Kale taking a Kamehameha from Blue, not that I was ever a fan of the "SSB Goku is holding back" excuse that plagued almost every episode of the recruitment arc, but why wouldn't that same logic apply here too ?

I'd actually recommend watching the whole video too as it lays down a solid defense...
Goku had to train with his grandfather Gohan, Roshi, Korin, Kami/Popo, King Kai, Train himself, lose countless fights and nearly dying only to unlock the first Ssj. For Ssj2 he had that and 1 year of training after Namek, 3 years before the androids showed up, a year or so with Gohan & at least 3 years in the after life just to unlock Ssj2. For Ssj3 add ALL that and another 3 or so years of hard training and even then he still couldn't use it properly. What took Goku 30+ years of hell (ssj2) was done in a split second because her back was "tingly". You're right about them now, they're nothing but color changes to a Saiyan's hair.

It never made sense in those episodes and it makes less sense here. Why on earth would he power up to Blue which was established later to take up power and he wanted to save it just to hold back against someone who could've knocked him out of the ring ? This shows how bad and all over the place super's writing has become.

There's plenty of defense going on here for me to see, there's no need to look on Youtube for it.
What took Goku 30+ years of hell (or 20 years or however he old he was when he fought Freeza) was also done in a split second for Goten & Trunks, yet that point is mostly ignored or tolerated by most people, or simply forgotten about just like Goten & Trunks are forgotten about in Super.

How do you expect new characters to be introduced that are able to keep up with our main cast of characters? Especially new characters that are Saiyans? It's not like you can show 30+ years of hell for these new characters. The blame all falls back on to Toriyama during the U6 arc making Cabba and U6 Saiyans unaware of what Super Saiyan was. He didn't plan ahead when he wrote the U6 arc, he didn't have characters like Caulifla and Kale in mind. Had Toriyama actually thought all of this through instead of making it all up as he goes along, Caulifla and Kale could have been introduced to us as already having SSJ, making their ascension up the ladder that much more believable. But Toriyama didn't do that, so what choice do Toyotaro and TOEI have in regards to introducing these new Saiyans that are supposed to at least be somewhat in the league of our characters? This is the point that the video makes. It acknowledges that it's stupid, and that it's bullshit, but explains who is at fault here and why.

The video makes a great point in saying don't blame the girls, blame Toriyama and blame the writing. You say it shows how bad and all over the place Super's writing has become, but that's wrong because Super's writing has always been horrible and all over the place, it's nothing new. If anything I'd say they're making progress after the gigantic clusterfuck of writing that was the Future Trunks arc, but obviously the writing is still bad and all over the place and a lot of it can be attributed to Toriyama.

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Re: POLL: How do you feel about Kale and Caulifla?

Post by PsionicWarrior » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:12 pm

Asura wrote:What took Goku 30+ years of hell (or 20 years or however he old he was when he fought Freeza) was also done in a split second for Goten & Trunks, yet that point is mostly ignored or tolerated by most people, or simply forgotten about just like Goten & Trunks are forgotten about in Super.
Why are you forgetting Goten and Trunks (just like Gohan) are half-breeds lol
How do you expect new characters to be introduced that are able to keep up with our main cast of characters?
By introducing them well, look at Hit for example lol

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Re: POLL: How do you feel about Kale and Caulifla?

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:13 pm

I've really grown to like both characters. I love Female Saiyans in the games, so when I saw we were getting two in this arc I was hyped. Caulifla was feisty and reminded me of a U7 Saiyan, and Kale, though timid, has had a lot of character development throughout this arc. And given the fact they're heavily hinting a journey to Planet Sadal at some point, I look forward to see them again.

The one thing I haven't liked, and we'll see what they do, is how theyve handled Kales Berserk form. I really love seeing her go crazy, and I'd love to see her "master" the form and still retain the overall appearance. I like the idea of the skinnier mastered form, but I'd love it if she retained the hulking stature.

As for Kefla, she was definitely out of left field, but I liked her. I could do without seeing her again for a while at least. I'd rather focus on the two characters independently

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Re: POLL: How do you feel about Kale and Caulifla?

Post by PsionicWarrior » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:16 pm

MKCSTEALTH wrote: and Kale, though timid, has had a lot of character development throughout this arc.
Dude she just went from 'I love my sis' to 'together with my sis we're the strongest' please lol

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Re: POLL: How do you feel about Kale and Caulifla?

Post by Nazabrax » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:20 pm

I really liked both of them, especially Caulifla cocky attitude. I kinda wished that they were older when I first saw them, but finally I settled with their teenage appearance.

I believe that all the power scaling problems that people talk about when complaining about Cauli and Kale could have been fixed with just a little more time invested in their backstories (at least 10 minutes more!) so that it could be believable that they were the best saiyan warriors that Sadala had to offer...or at least the warriors with the most potential...wich they actually seem to be by now...

I don't know, maybe show Cauli returning from a specially hard battle with her gang?, Maybe give her some scars or something that actually showed us that she was a great fighter. Maybe some sick display of potential by Kale?...it would be cool that they alreay knew that Kale haven enormous hidden power (Supposedly, Caulifla alredy knew that, but I think it would be better if all the saiyans knew about the legendary hidden power in Kale or something...) so that her inclusion on the tournament and her power boosts wouldn't feel like an asspull...

I think that could have solved a lot of this mixed feelings about Cauli and Kale.
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Re: POLL: How do you feel about Kale and Caulifla?

Post by precita » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:33 pm

I think people are just insecure we have two lead female characters for once. Other than 18 we barely ever had female fighters in the series, and 18 didn't do much in the Buu arc till now.

Cabba has the same level of Super Saiyan transformations and he doesn't get hate, people just call him, "boring." I bet if Cabba was a girl too he would get just as much hate for sucking up to Vegeta and achieving Super Saiyan forms so fast.

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Re: POLL: How do you feel about Kale and Caulifla?

Post by perucho1990 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:39 pm

If the girls are between 15-17 years old then it makes sense if Toei plans a Planet Sadala Arc next year with them and Cabba as part of the main characters cast, in attempt to target the young demographic.

Cabba actually needs to man up, how he acted in episode 112 was a step in the right direction, one of the issue with him is that he still acts like a sissy toward Caulifla.

Follow the Boruto path...

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Re: POLL: How do you feel about Kale and Caulifla?

Post by Asura » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:50 pm

PsionicWarrior wrote:
Asura wrote:What took Goku 30+ years of hell (or 20 years or however he old he was when he fought Freeza) was also done in a split second for Goten & Trunks, yet that point is mostly ignored or tolerated by most people, or simply forgotten about just like Goten & Trunks are forgotten about in Super.
Why are you forgetting Goten and Trunks (just like Gohan) are half-breeds lol
How do you expect new characters to be introduced that are able to keep up with our main cast of characters?
By introducing them well, look at Hit for example lol
The Half-breed excuse is just as valid as U7 Saiyans being biologically different than U6 Saiyans excuse. If them being half-saiyans makes it OK for them to go Super Saiyan when they're 5 years old, then U6 Saiyans being different than U7 Saiyans makes it OK for them to go Super Saiyan too.

Hit isn't a Saiyan, huge difference.

PsionicWarrior wrote:
MKCSTEALTH wrote: and Kale, though timid, has had a lot of character development throughout this arc.
Dude she just went from 'I love my sis' to 'together with my sis we're the strongest' please lol
That's such a gross oversimplification of her character that I don't even know where to start.

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Re: POLL: How do you feel about Kale and Caulifla?

Post by precita » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:42 pm

There's pretty obvious lesbian yuri undertones, especially from Kale toward Caulifa. I think a lot of you don't realize how common this trope is in anime, especially ones with female leads. Look at any shoujo anime, or stuff airing right now like Love Live, etc. Whenever you have a shy/meek girl crushing on an older more experienced girl, it's usually filled with lesbian undertones and often leads to romance. Caulifa is likely oblivious to her love for Kale, in the apparent "main character is dense when someone has feelings for them" trope that also goes on in every shonen anime ever.

Trust me, guys, I know about these things. Not saying they'll definitely get together in canon, but it'll likely be heavily hinted every time they appear. It's also what the fans want, call it "fanservice" if you will.

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Re: POLL: How do you feel about Kale and Caulifla?

Post by perucho1990 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:27 pm

Tbh there is a higher chance Caulifla will somehow end up with Cabba or at least become rivals.

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Re: POLL: How do you feel about Kale and Caulifla?

Post by Torturephile » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:34 pm

precita wrote:I think people are just insecure we have two lead female characters for once. Other than 18 we barely ever had female fighters in the series, and 18 didn't do much in the Buu arc till now.

Cabba has the same level of Super Saiyan transformations and he doesn't get hate, people just call him, "boring." I bet if Cabba was a girl too he would get just as much hate for sucking up to Vegeta and achieving Super Saiyan forms so fast.
I don't believe that is the case, plus Cabba's transformations were handled a bit differently than Caulifla and Kale's.
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Re: POLL: How do you feel about Kale and Caulifla?

Post by Asura » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:39 pm

precita wrote:There's pretty obvious lesbian yuri undertones, especially from Kale toward Caulifa. I think a lot of you don't realize how common this trope is in anime, especially ones with female leads. Look at any shoujo anime, or stuff airing right now like Love Live, etc. Whenever you have a shy/meek girl crushing on an older more experienced girl, it's usually filled with lesbian undertones and often leads to romance. Caulifa is likely oblivious to her love for Kale, in the apparent "main character is dense when someone has feelings for them" trope that also goes on in every shonen anime ever.

Trust me, guys, I know about these things. Not saying they'll definitely get together in canon, but it'll likely be heavily hinted every time they appear. It's also what the fans want, call it "fanservice" if you will.
You're saying to look at Shoujo anime, which is anime aimed at teenage girls with a large emphasis on romance, as proof that Dragon Ball Super, a kid's shonen anime that airs at 9 in the morning, is ripe with lesbian yuri undertones?
Next you'll be telling me Gurren Lagann was a show about homosexual men.

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Re: POLL: How do you feel about Kale and Caulifla?

Post by JazzMazz » Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:11 am

PsionicWarrior wrote:
Asura wrote:As for Kale taking a Kamehameha from Blue, I refer you to this section of this video: https://youtu.be/BwGKF8_RO28?t=673 (also, not that I was ever a fan of the "SSB Goku is holding back" excuse that plagued almost every episode of the recruitment arc, but why wouldn't that same logic apply here too?)

I'd actually recommend watching the whole video too as it lays down a solid defense of why these characters are not as bad as some people make them out to be sometimes.
I watched a bit then saw he made another video called "power levels are stupid" and decided not to give this guy any more clics lol
But powerlevels are stupid. I think that something the wide majority of the community can easily come together to agree on.

Did you even watch the video about powerlevels?

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Re: POLL: How do you feel about Kale and Caulifla?

Post by Ripper 30 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:33 pm

Caulifla is like a typical Saiyan with aggressive and Cocky attitude. i don't like her that much but also don't hate her. she looks better in SSJ form than Base form to me atleast. they could have fleshed out her character more other than being a prodigy who can achieve newer Saiyan forms easily. but, with that said i liked what little interaction she had with Cabba.

Kale is a Broli fanservice character.I like her when they are making her a Broli Clone. i like her Shy and cute nature. her interactions with Caulifla were good and her fighting scenes were good too. her Normal Super Saiyan form looks cool (but it still it doesn't make sense for the hair to be green).
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Re: POLL: How do you feel about Kale and Caulifla?

Post by perucho1990 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:23 pm

Cauliflas interaction with the Namekians was funny, it showed several things.

1. She isnt a douche as some people claimed.

2. She is a kid, at most she is in her late teens.

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