What would you rate DBS out of 10?

[precita]

None of Super's arcs have surpassed any of DBZ's arcs, even if I've enjoyed Zamasu and the TOP immensely.

The Cell and Buu arc are still far superior. Toriyama's storytelling and planning, and the addition of NEW stuff constantly is what sets those sagas apart from Super. The handling of characters is better, the plot twists are better, the lore building is better, etc.

Even after watching the old DBZ sagas many times, I still feel the same amount of tension and mystery when I rewatch them even though I know exactly what's going to happen.

[Lord Beerus]

The Battle Of Gods was decent, the Resurrection F arc started good but hit the fucking pits once Episode 24 happened, the Champa arc was a fun throwaway tournament, the Future Trunks arc was really damn good, Universal Survival arc has been a hell of a lot fun with some franchise high points, and the filler episodes have mostly ranged from okay to excellent.

Dragon Ball Super is such a peculiar, weird beast of a show that trying to assess its truly quality can be quite difficult with how much the show can drop the ball with fresh and unique concept (everything related to God ki and the other universes in the Tournament Of Power) but can also manage to pull a golden rabbit out the hat with ideas that look shit on paper ("Evil" Goku and Freeza being brought back to life again).

It's overall lack of internal consistency is responsible for bringing out the best and worst of Dragon Ball as a whole. We saw the best and worst from Roshi in the span of less than 20 episodes It's just so bizarre. I think the best way of describing Dragon Ball Super is like a box of chocolates. You don't know what you're going to get. And that ironically works as the show's major hook, even for those who aren't wholly interested in Super as a concept.

For the first 50 episodes, I'd rate the show 6/10. After the next 50 episodes, I'd rate the show a 7.5/10. But as of now, it's a solid 8/10. And if they stick the landing for the ending of the Universal Survival arc, the rating will creep up to an 8.5/10.

[PsionicWarrior]

For me, the Freeza and Buu Saga were the best story arcs of Z. I think the Saiyans Saga was okay and the Cell Saga is the worst story arc in Dragon Ball

These two are also my favorites, but IMO the Cell Saga is heavily underrated, I think people tend to forget why SSJ2 Gohan or Goku saying goodbye had such impact in both our hearts and DB history.

[precita]

The early/mid Cell arc is also great. The whole mystery of the Androids and time travel, and Imperfect Cell being more of a horror creature is something the franchise never really did up to that point.

It was also nice to see the entire Z-fighters human cast working together again, since everyone was split up on Namek. Even if Yamcha or Tien didn't do much it was great that they were still there as part of the main cast.

[BWri]

The early/mid Cell arc is also great. The whole mystery of the Androids and time travel, and Imperfect Cell being more of a horror creature is something the franchise never really did up to that point.

It was also nice to see the entire Z-fighters human cast working together again, since everyone was split up on Namek. Even if Yamcha or Tien didn't do much it was great that they were still there as part of the main cast.

That's why the Cell arc was the best for me. The ideas + the tone and everyone had moments and contributed to the fight in some way (even if Yamcha was just the airship driver for the most part). And in the end, everybody stepped up to help Gohan. That and the villains were compelling and memorable. Oh and the various character arcs were pretty darn good. Krillin, Piccolo, Vegeta, Trunks, Goku, the Androids, Cell, and Gohan all had compelling little arcs. And to me the power scaling here was probably the best it ever was and I liked the heirarchy of the good guys for the most part though I felt like Vegeta was waaaaay too inferior to Goku in raw power even if Goku had mastered SSJ.

[supersaiyanZero]

2/10. A generous 4/10 for the Trunks Arc.

Stiff, dull animation with stiff, dull one-note characters, a ridiculous amount of fan pandering, and an inability to tell a compelling (or even cohesive) story. Not to mention the constant exposition through dialogue just to fill up screen time/spell it out for the 3 year olds.

[dbs fanboy]

I'm not good with numbers but whatever.
Currently it's been a 6.6 overall but if things still go in the way they have been going, i might give it a 7.

So this is a "the show has it's bad things but it's good things are fucking great so fuck it i love it" out of ten.

[sangofe]

2/10. A generous 4/10 for the Trunks Arc.

Stiff, dull animation with stiff, dull one-note characters, a ridiculous amount of fan pandering, and an inability to tell a compelling (or even cohesive) story. Not to mention the constant exposition through dialogue just to fill up screen time/spell it out for the 3 year olds.

I'm curious how you'd rate the other Dragon Ball series and why since you're this harsh on super I don't think DBZ should get a high score from you. Or DBGT.

[MajinMan]

Battle of Gods arc - 6/10.

I never really hated the anime version of this arc as much as other people did. It's not as good as the movie, but it was serviceable to me.


Resurrection F arc - 2.5/10.

Garbage. Good start, extremely terrible middle, and a mediocre end. Second worst arc in the whole series. Go watch the movie instead.


Champa arc - 6.5/10.

Started off promising, but when the fights started it fell apart. Goku vs Botamo was U-G-L-Y. It didn't help that the Piccolo fight with Frost wasn't good either. It got better when Vegeta jumped in surprisingly, but before that it was not good.


Future Trunks arc - 7.5/10.

Pretty good. Would have been rated higher if the ending wasn't a mess and so rushed. Episode 64 in particular was abysmal, and it almost ruined any momentum the arc had before that point. And for the postitives, Black and Zamasu are great villains. I liked them till the end, which is a good thing. I'm also a fan of the actual ending, where Trunks loses his timeline. I thought him living with another Trunks was weird, but everything else was great and different.


Universe Survival arc - Wait for it to be done/10.

All I'm going to say is that I like it more than the last arc right now.


I guess my total score ends up being 5.5/10, but that doesn't include all the slice-of-life episodes. Those episodes honestly bump it up to a 6.5/10 easily.

[sunsetshimmer]

Battle of Gods saga: 5/10 - it was boring and nothing happened here, but it's really original saga with quite cool form of Goku and Beerus also is nice villain

Golden Frieza saga: 3/10 - the most ugly thing ever made with the most lazy and most bul***it forms of Goku and Frieza. But seeing Tien, Roshi and others fight was nice. Tagoma was also nice addition compared to movie. I'd even give it a 4, but that animation. No, just no.

U6 tournament saga: 3/10 - It was nice to see a tournament. Hit was cool. Champa and Vados are okay. All the other characters were pure trash. I would give it 4/10 if it wasn't for stupid Buu's absence. Seriously, for the second time.

Copy-Vegeta saga: 0/10 - let's just forget about this disaster, there is no single way to defend this trash

Future Trunks saga: 2/10 - terrible and lazy villain being the ripoff of all possible main villains from earlier series. The same goes for rest of saga. Full of ripoffs. There isn't anything original in this saga, but compared to previous DBS arcs, it was more serious, have some good fights and good atmosphere. It also lacks any logic although current arc is even worse on this.

Universe survival saga: ?/10 - still airing, but it's VERY bad so it most likely get 1/10 or maybe 2/10 at best for Android 17 being the only acceptable character in entire arc and really good animation. Also, Buu is absent for a THIRD time. This arc is trash.

So the overall rating would be around 2.5/10. Sorry. I really wish next arc will be good and original

[majinwarman]

The Battle Of Gods was decent, the Resurrection F arc started good but hit the fucking pits once Episode 24 happened, the Champa arc was a fun throwaway tournament, the Future Trunks arc was really damn good, Universal Survival arc has been a hell of a lot fun with some franchise high points, and the filler episodes have mostly ranged from okay to excellent.

Dragon Ball Super is such a peculiar, weird beast of a show that trying to assess its truly quality can be quite difficult with how much the show can drop the ball with fresh and unique concept (everything related to God ki and the other universes in the Tournament Of Power) but can also manage to pull a golden rabbit out the hat with ideas that look shit on paper ("Evil" Goku and Freeza being brought back to life again).

It's overall lack of internal consistency is responsible for bringing out the best and worst of Dragon Ball as a whole. We saw the best and worst from Roshi in the span of less than 20 episodes It's just so bizarre. I think the best way of describing Dragon Ball Super is like a box of chocolates. You don't know what you're going to get. And that ironically works as the show's major hook, even for those who aren't wholly interested in Super as a concept.

For the first 50 episodes, I'd rate the show 6/10. After the next 50 episodes, I'd rate the show a 7.5/10. But as of now, it's a solid 8/10. And if they stick the landing for the ending of the Universal Survival arc, the rating will creep up to an 8.5/10.

Your statements exactly as I think about Super. I would give Super an 7.9 for now and if the TOP ends well, then it's an 8 in my book.

[Paragon1]

Right now I would say 10/10 - really enjoy it and look forward to it every week. Even joined this forum!

It was a rough ride at the beginning though, didnt like the Resurrection of F saga and the animation at the start of Super was poor. We're past all that though and these days its great!

[mute_proxy]

Something like 6.5/10 because of the many flaws, even though I got used to them (love the ideas, but execution is mostly lackluster). I love the franchise so I'm still watching, but I'm pretty sure I won't be rewatching it like the older series (well, maybe when I have kids)

[sangofe]

So the overall rating would be around 2.5/10. Sorry. I really wish next arc will be good and original

You're Cleary wasting your time. Why do you bother?

[Grimlock]

Battle of Gods saga: 5/10 - it was boring and nothing happened here, but it's really original saga with quite cool form of Goku and Beerus also is nice villain

Let's forget about the movie and pretent the saga came out of nowhere: how in the heck nothing happened there? We got to know a new god in the hierarchy of gods, the counterpart to Sozoshins; we got to know god Ki (even though it proved to serve no purpose at all later on). I agree that removing the mention of Tarble and the Multiverse was a huge mistake from Toei's part, but still...

Don't get me wrong, the retellings are crap as hell, but at least Beerus saga has somewhat going on for it. Oh, and Beerus is not a villain.

[sunsetshimmer]

Let's forget about the movie and pretent the saga came out of nowhere: how in the heck nothing happened there?
Are you really expecting 100% originality in Dragon Ball? When did that ever happen?

What i meant is that half of saga was about Beerus eating at a party and other half was Goku vs Beerus. I only mean it lacked variety in events. Entire fight was too long for me. Other than that, concept was really cool.

I am not expecting 100% originality, but at least 10% which this saga didn't even had. Villain wasn't original at all. Designs were just evil Goku and Kaioshin. Evil Goku is something we already had in form of Turles and Ginyu after switching bodies which is another thing this saga did. Ginyu took Goku's body and Baby took Vegeta's body. Oh, Baby right? Almost everything about Zamasu says "I am the DBS version of Baby!". Let's add forced fusion only for fanservice, let's add Future Trunks and time travelling because why not. Fusing with himself? Super 17 did that. Seriously, that's not all, i just can't find any really original side of this arc. Even if we ignore entire talk about originality, i just didn't like Zamasu as a character and i didn't like Trunks learnin mafuba from a video, nor going into present and past over and over. I must admit this saga had a tense atmosphere tho. Also, Zamasu isn't that bad in manga.

You're Cleary wasting your time. Why do you bother?

I actually don't. I stopped watching Super in June. I only watch fragments of the most important episodes on youtube to have knowledge on what is going on. Besides, i don't want to rate something without actually watching it. Current arc is the first thing in DB that actually made me stop watching it. It's so bad. Sure, Copy Vegeta is the worst thing ever, but it takes oly a few episodes and it's just a filler.

[MisteryOne]

Anime version: 5/10 I don't even think it deserves a 5 since I'm pretty sure that objetively it's worse than GT, but Black was a fun (yet extremely incompetent) villain and they have improved the animation and art too much to not give them credit. Apart from that, a complete disaster. Goku is written completely OOC most of the time (like when he apparently supressed himself against Krillin, or during the Exhibition against U9. Seriously, people don't understand his character at all if they think he has being writed well from most of Super) Jiren is even more boring than post-Imperfect Cell, the power scale is complete bullshit, the Blue Kaioken has being handled like shit, "fake tension" can describe any arc (specially the FT one...God it was awful how they forced it) and they made Trunks an extremely lame character that has random and nonsensical power ups without any sense and without any reason at all. TOP has being a complete disaster, even more that what I anticipated. Oh yeah, and they love to give the rivals/villains bullshit power ups. Just look at Black and specially Hit. It surprises me how Jiren didn't have one so far. And unlike in the manga, the transformations of the main Saiyan duo are handled extremely bad and they not feel natural at all

Manga version: A solid 7/10. Considering how it was just a promotion during the Champa arc, how rushed the BoG and the Super Shenlong summons are, and how little I usually prefer mangas over animes, it's amusing how the Super manga manages to feel like a true sequel to Toriyama's manga. Its definetly not perfect, Vegeta suffers severe character regression (even trough he has some moments, like when he and Goku stand against the Zamasu army) but not as bad as the anime TOP version, lacks ROF and made Goku Black a generic villain who the story didn't even take seriously at first, but the anime version is so damn bad that it still manages to be better. As a whole, it's better that the Cell arc, which is not saying a lot, but oh well.
It surprises me how people actually prefer the anime, since the only better thing I see about it is that is an anime, with colours, music and all. Then again, I have seen people on this very forum who claim "The anime is way better than the manga..." and then proceed to explain that they have not even read it. Cool I guess

In general terms trough I would say Toriyama himself is the one who creates most of the big problems of Dragon Ball Super, and if I was in charge I would either just continue it if Toriyama writes more detailed scripts like he does for the movies, or if he just designs the characters and the concept of the arcs, nothing more (but to be fair, he has managed to expand on the lore in an interesting way, excluding Zeno). Then again, Toei is the one who fucks things up more without reason.

[Cipher]

In general terms trough I would say Toriyama himself is the one who creates most of the big problems of Dragon Ball Super, and if I was in charge I would either just continue it if Toriyama writes more detailed scripts like he does for the movies, or if he just designs the characters and the concept of the arcs, nothing more (but to be fair, he has managed to expand on the lore in an interesting way, excluding Zeno). Then again, Toei is the one who fucks things up more without reason.

Man, I wind up in the opposite place. Super's hamstrung a bit from the get-go, as a midquel to a series where all the major narratives are already locked into place, but I think most if not all of the new material has the potential to make for fun one-offs along the lines of Battle of Gods or Resurrection "F" were Toriyama actually scripting.

I think he's churning out the kinds of ideas he could comfortably execute, but something suffers once they go through Toei's staff, on the schedule they're on.

Toyotaro brings us much closer to how I think Toriyama would personally handle the material. It doesn't have an inch on the original run, but it's perfectly enjoyable optional sequel stuff.

EDIT -- Opposite place in terms of Toriyama creating most of the problems. I agree I'd rather he do more heavy-lifting when it comes to detailed plotting or scripts.

[MisteryOne]

In general terms trough I would say Toriyama himself is the one who creates most of the big problems of Dragon Ball Super, and if I was in charge I would either just continue it if Toriyama writes more detailed scripts like he does for the movies, or if he just designs the characters and the concept of the arcs, nothing more (but to be fair, he has managed to expand on the lore in an interesting way, excluding Zeno). Then again, Toei is the one who fucks things up more without reason.

Man, I wind up in the opposite place. Super's hamstrung a bit from the get-go, as a midquel to a series where all the major narratives are already locked into place, but I think most if not all o the new material has the potential to make for fun one-offs along the lines of Battle of Gods or Resurrection "F" were Toriyama actually scripting.

I think he's churning out the kinds of ideas he could comfortably execute, but something suffers once they go through Toei's staff, on the schedule they're on.

Toyotaro brings us much closer to how I think Toriyama would personally handle the material. It doesn't have an inch on the original run, but it's perfectly enjoyable optional sequel stuff.

That's why I would rather not have him writing anything at all that writing just barebones like he does nowadays. BoG was fantastic, and while RoF was awful I can definetly agree on it being fun on its own way. The problem is that with Toei adapting, as you said, it becomes a mess. For example, Goku fighting Merged Zamasu alone. In the anime Toei just went with it without explaining anything at all (as always), creating such a problem with the power scale that even people who are not fans of DB were confused (I still remember when my younger brother asked me why Goku was able to fight Merged alone, specially since both Trunks and Vegeta were shown to be superior than him...I didn't know how to answer to that, and I still don't know). The recruitment episodes are also another example: I seriously doubt they would exist in a Toriyama's version at all, at least the way they were shown in the anime, because the reader/viewer already knows that, outside of maybe Frieza and 17, the rest are going to say yes to joining the team. The manga right now is going into a faster and more natural way with them, which is the main reason the manga feels more like a sequel to me: it feels like DB, it just flows more natural.

Toriyama could write a more detailed script that Toei and Toyotaro could work on, or Toyotaro could draw the manga based on it and then the anime staff could adapt it, something like that. Toriyama giving just barebones means that the overall thing once it's over will probably not really feel like a DB thing, because both Toei and Toyotaro fail to interpret the story on the same way he does (Toyotaro still does it way better, but he suggesting Vegetto to fill the fans' expectations shows that they don't see the story with the same eyes). I understand why Toriyama is more comfortable with not planning the whome thing, but when he doesn't, it just becomes a mess. Specially because as you said, Super is forced to fit with EoZ so that already puts limits on the story, but Toriyama himself was the one who created (without actually wanting to, but still) that limit in the first place.

[Cipher]

That's why I would rather not have him writing anything at all that writing just barebones like he does nowadays. BoG was fantastic, and while RoF was awful I can definetly agree on it being fun on its own way. The problem is that with Toei adapting, as you said, it becomes a mess. For example, Goku fighting Merged Zamasu alone. In the anime Toei just went with it without explaining anything at all (as always), creating such a problem with the power scale that even people who are not fans of DB were confused (I still remember when my younger brother asked me why Goku was able to fight Merged alone, specially since both Trunks and Vegeta were shown to be superior than him...I didn't know how to answer to that, and I still don't know). The recruitment episodes are also another example: I seriously doubt they would exist in a Toriyama's version at all, at least the way they were shown in the anime, because the reader/viewer already knows that, outside of maybe Frieza and 17, the rest are going to say yes to joining the team. The manga right now is going into a faster and more natural way with them, which is the main reason the manga feels more like a sequel to me: it feels like DB, it just flows more natural.

Toriyama could write a more detailed script that Toei and Toyotaro could work on, or Toyotaro could draw the manga based on it and then the anime staff could adapt it, something like that. Toriyama giving just barebones means that the overall thing once it's over will probably not really feel like a DB thing, because both Toei and Toyotaro fail to interpret the story on the same way he does (Toyotaro still does it way better, but he suggesting Vegetto to fill the fans' expectations shows that they don't see the story with the same eyes). I understand why Toriyama is more comfortable with not planning the whome thing, but when he doesn't, it just becomes a mess. Specially because as you said, Super is forced to fit with EoZ so that already puts limits on the story, but Toriyama himself was the one who created (without actually wanting to, but still) that limit in the first place.

Finding some way for Toriyama to more directly contribute to the scripting of the new material, even if it were through a proxy situation like you lay out here, with the anime adapting a Toyotaro manga with heavy Toriyama input, would be ideal, but I don't think it could ever realistically have been in the cards for a production like Super. Maybe if Toriyama had really put his foot down, but hindsight is 20/20. There was no reason to expect the series to be such a mess.

I'd love to see an OVA adaptation of Toyotaro's manga at some point, just to have a single-medium way to experience all the new stuff without the Super anime, but even that seems like a pipe dream.

I can't say I'd rather see a long-running series completely devoid of Toriyama's plots than what we're getting though. Or rather, were such a production to exist, I can't say I'd be following it.