Theories & Ideas On The Origin of Zen'ō

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Theories & Ideas On The Origin of Zen'ō

Post by Anime Kitten » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:27 pm

Zen'ō/Zen-Oh/the Omni-King holds a bit of a mystery regarding his origins. Where does he come from? Did he used to be anything other than the ruler of the Universes? Is he totally unique or are there others of his race? Etc.

What do y'all think? Craft your theories and throw out all sorts of ideas - the crazier, the better!
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Re: Theories & Ideas On The Origin of Zen'ō

Post by Dragon Ball Gus » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:32 pm

My wacky theory is that Zeno isn't the ultimate God. The Ultimate God is divided into three gods, Zeno King of Gods of Destruction, Zuno King of Gods of Knowledge (Kaios), and, Zalama King of Gods of Creation (Kaioshins). And once these 3 combine together, The Ultimate God Zeluma will be reborn. You guys like my wacky theory?
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Re: Theories & Ideas On The Origin of Zen'ō

Post by Chuquita » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:15 pm

Tori-bot was tired of overseeing the Dragon World he created so one day so he built the Omni King to do his job for him. Tori-bot retired to his home in Space Japan to watch movies and build model kits and after a while stopped checking in on the Omni King and has no idea the multiverse is in peril.
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Re: Theories & Ideas On The Origin of Zen'ō

Post by lunatikprincess » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:22 pm

My wacky theory is that Zeno isn't the ultimate God. The Ultimate God is divided into three gods, Zeno King of Gods of Destruction, Zuno King of Gods of Knowledge (Kaios), and, Zalama King of Gods of Creation (Kaioshins). And once these 3 combine together, The Ultimate God Zeluma will be reborn. You guys like my wacky theory?
As convoluted as dragon ball is, I love this idea of yours and would not mind it in the slightest if they made this happen.

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Re: Theories & Ideas On The Origin of Zen'ō

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:30 pm

I think a bigger question is why, if Zeno is so trigger happy with his powers, there are even any universes left, considering he's been around for probably billions of years at least.
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Re: Theories & Ideas On The Origin of Zen'ō

Post by AnimeNation101 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:18 pm

Dragon Ball Gus wrote:My wacky theory is that Zeno isn't the ultimate God. The Ultimate God is divided into three gods, Zeno King of Gods of Destruction, Zuno King of Gods of Knowledge (Kaios), and, Zalama King of Gods of Creation (Kaioshins). And once these 3 combine together, The Ultimate God Zeluma will be reborn. You guys like my wacky theory?
That was my theory except Zuno is replaced and its

Zeno King of Gods of destruction (G.o.D)
Zalama King of Gods of Creation (Kaioshin)
Grand Priest King of Overseers (Angels)

I guess Zuno still fits but I'm pretty sure the Grand Priest is also all knowing as the King of the Overseers who tend to know the most about their universe.

The fusion part that you have is pretty cool.
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Re: Theories & Ideas On The Origin of Zen'ō

Post by Dai-Saiyajin » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:42 pm

Well, in my theory, Daishinkan created Zeno to replace him as the King of all, but Zeno is still too immature to be in charge, so Daishinkan stays around. Also, I imagine that on the time that Daishinkan was the Ruler of everything, the Angels acted as both Hakaishin and Kaiohshin on their respective universes, and when Zeno was appointed as the King of The GoDs and Zarama as the King of creation, the first GoDs and Kaiohshins were also appointed to replace the Angels.

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Re: Theories & Ideas On The Origin of Zen'ō

Post by Omori » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:18 am

If it was DBZ Abridged, Popo is the father of Zeno standing above everything... Like here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu0250EWglA
Sounds crazy enough for Toriyama, but I expect that there must be above or equal to him.

Either Zeno is like a God of Destruction and they could be also a God of Creation. If it's Zalama?
Or there was another Omniking before Zeno...

Maybe that Omniking had a conflict with the angels and died. So the 'child' Zeno took over the position.

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Re: Theories & Ideas On The Origin of Zen'ō

Post by Kepiaschkz » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:59 pm

I think Zen'ô is actually a child angel, son or daughter of the Grand Priest. He is maybe wearing a mask to hide his identity for whatever reason. After all, his hand have the same skin color as angels one.

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Re: Theories & Ideas On The Origin of Zen'ō

Post by Dai-Saiyajin » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:27 pm

I think zeno is'nt much old, and that there is others that occuppied his position before him.

I really wish that Freeza won this tournament and wish to kill or make the zenos powerless, so we may get some kind of war between the GoDs to take over the position.

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Re: Theories & Ideas On The Origin of Zen'ō

Post by Faisal Shourov » Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:49 pm

Dragon Ball Gus wrote:My wacky theory is that Zeno isn't the ultimate God. The Ultimate God is divided into three gods, Zeno King of Gods of Destruction, Zuno King of Gods of Knowledge (Kaios), and, Zalama King of Gods of Creation (Kaioshins). And once these 3 combine together, The Ultimate God Zeluma will be reborn. You guys like my wacky theory?
It's not wacky at all, if Zeno was ultimate god there wouldn't be future Zeno. Neither created the other, so neither is ultimate god. Zeno is bound to time as much as Goku
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Re: Theories & Ideas On The Origin of Zen'ō

Post by shadowfox87 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:26 pm

I think Zeno is the Dai Hakaishin (Grand God of Destruction). Dai means Grand. We've had Dai Kaio and Dai Kaioshin. We also have the Dai Shinkan presiding over the Angels. I did like that theory above though of the Ultimate God being divided into 3 parts. Actually, a god should be omnipresent (all-existing), omniscient (all-knowing), and omnipotent (all-powerful). So Zalama is omnipresent, Zuno is omniscient, and Zeno is omnipotent. It makes sense that Toriyama would make this since all their names start with Z. We know that Zeno is bound to time since there is a future Zeno. Maybe there is only one Zalama since he's omnipresent.

I just hope they have a story planned for after this Tournament of Power. I'm not sure if we'll see Zalama until the very end. I think that the Dai Shinkan is kind of like the babysitter for Zeno, assigned by Zalama. Zeno represents this child emperor who has a lot of power but is stupid. The Grand Priest is the advisor to the emperor and is the real puppet master. In China, there have been many child emperors. This is common in Asian history.

Toriyama can even expand the multiverse further by stating that a group of 18 universes comprises of 1 sector and that each sector has its own Zeno. Maybe the multiverse is bigger than we think it is.
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Re: Theories & Ideas On The Origin of Zen'ō

Post by GodKaio-Ken » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:51 pm

Today I was debating why a button to call Zebo even exists to begin with. Who do you guys think would have one of these except MAYBE Grand Priest?
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Re: Theories & Ideas On The Origin of Zen'ō

Post by Code » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:37 pm

It would be pretty cool, if Zeno was the creator of everything.

Think about it. At its core Dragon Ball is a power fantasy for adolescent boys. They feel powerless in their day to day lives, so they are fascinated by everything that's strong. That's just what it is... not judging, we've all been there ;)
Given that, I think in it's inception Toriyama channeled his inner child into Dragon Ball. He took inspiration from the little kid inside him, that is fascinated by strength.

So let's assume, all creation came from the mind of Zeno. Then everything in the universe exists only in the mind of a little boy. A little boy is dreaming and what we get, is Dragon Ball.
That's a perfect meta description of what Dragon Ball is. Pretty poetic!

Sadly, this is almost certainly not the case. We've never seen Zeno create anything! Even something as basic as the fighting stage had to be created by the Grand Priest. If Zeno can't even create THAT, how could he ever have created the universes and the laws of physics?
There has to be someone else, that's actually good at creating things.

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Re: Theories & Ideas On The Origin of Zen'ō

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:04 pm

Code wrote:There has to be someone else, that's actually good at creating things.
That would probably be Zarama.
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Re: Theories & Ideas On The Origin of Zen'ō

Post by Dbzfan94 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:06 pm

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Re: Theories & Ideas On The Origin of Zen'ō

Post by Cipher » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:27 pm

My hope is that Zeno is just one rung in an infinite hierarchy of weird gods, most of whom we never get to see, with a system that goes so far up even most of the gods themselves don't know who's at the top.

Give us a scene after the tournament where a god above Zeno arrives, after everyone else has left, and says that the god above him really wishes Zeno would stop being so reckless.

Turtles all the way down.

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Re: Theories & Ideas On The Origin of Zen'ō

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:09 am

Cipher wrote:My hope is that Zeno is just one rung in an infinite hierarchy of weird gods, most of whom we never get to see, with a system that goes so far up even most of the gods themselves don't know who's at the top.

Give us a scene after the tournament where a god above Zeno arrives, after everyone else has left, and says that the god above him really wishes Zeno would stop being so reckless.

Turtles all the way down.
I want Toriyama to canonize the Lovecraftian hierarchy.

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Re: Theories & Ideas On The Origin of Zen'ō

Post by GodKaio-Ken » Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:43 am

TheUltimateNinja wrote:
Cipher wrote:My hope is that Zeno is just one rung in an infinite hierarchy of weird gods, most of whom we never get to see, with a system that goes so far up even most of the gods themselves don't know who's at the top.

Give us a scene after the tournament where a god above Zeno arrives, after everyone else has left, and says that the god above him really wishes Zeno would stop being so reckless.

Turtles all the way down.
I want Toriyama to canonize the Lovecraftian hierarchy.
Honestly it's not that unlike what we already have. At one point even Kami seemed like a big deal.
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Re: Theories & Ideas On The Origin of Zen'ō

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:21 pm

GodKaio-Ken wrote: Honestly it's not that unlike what we already have. At one point even Kami seemed like a big deal.
Nah, he was called God but we already knew Goku would own him easily the next arc since he was merely Piccolo's good half. Absolutely embarrassing for a God, to be honest.

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