Gohan's victory over the namekians in the last episode...

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Re: Gohan's victory over the namekians in the last episode...

Post by namekiansaiyan » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:03 am

Michsi wrote:
namekiansaiyan wrote:
Michsi wrote:
I'm not undermining PIccolo's role at all, his attack was essential, but Gohan's fight was well done too. (YES I WOULD HAVE LOVED FOR PICCOLO TO TRADE BLOWS AT THEIR LEVEL, but oh well.....)
I AM ONLY TALKING ABOUT WHAT HURT SAONEL AND PIRINA AND NOTHING ELSE. THE FIGHT WAS WELL DONE.

WHY DOES EVERYONE ALWAYS THINK I AM TRYING TO MAKE A DIFFERENT POINT TO THE ONE I AM MAKING?

This is also another post that is basically just telling me to shut up.
Nope, I don't do that. The capslock was to meant to underline how much I would've LOVED to have him fight more and become stronger, not directed at you at all.

My point was simply that even if he needed Piccolo, Gohan's fight was good and intense, meaning his victory is well deserved. But it seems people try to sway it in favor of either Piccolo or Gohan, and I think that misses the point of the entire team-work theme they were going for.
I wasn't trying to say anything apart from what I thought hurt them.

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Re: Gohan's victory over the namekians in the last episode...

Post by Kanious » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:41 am

in fact i was surprised that Gohan did not struggle that much against the namekians. I expected to see him get humiliated a little bit.

He did struggle against Obuni, and the yardrat, and also took some beating by Bolla. The namekians are strong, but i was disappointed.

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Re: Gohan's victory over the namekians in the last episode...

Post by namekiansaiyan » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:46 am

Kanious wrote:in fact i was surprised that Gohan did not struggle that much against the namekians. I expected to see him get humiliated a little bit.

He did struggle against Obuni, and the yardrat, and also took some beating by Bolla. The namekians are strong, but i was disappointed.
Gohan was at 100% power against the Namekians and he couldn't hurt then. He would have been finished twice if Piccolo never used his move.

Saonel was squahed between a Mouth Beam and a Kamehameha and got out of it. The Mouth Beam and Kamehameha were equal. Saonel and Pirina were really strong and way stronger than Obuni, Jimeze and Borareta.

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Re: Gohan's victory over the namekians in the last episode...

Post by BlueVegerot » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:36 pm

As a huge gohan fan, I'm just glad he is getting screentime and having relevance in the show. In the first 4 arcs he was basically as relevant as the pilaf gang. If he goes further and lasts till the final few fighters , even if toppo or dyspo drop him. I will still be happy.

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Re: Gohan's victory over the namekians in the last episode...

Post by BWri » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:54 pm

Puaru wrote:... was really lame when you stop and Think about it.

I mean Gohan actually had an equal, I repeat an EQUAL beam-struggle against the namekian despite specifically saying that he had gone full Power. And Before you say "but that namekian was really strong!", no he really wasn't, because he was defeated by Piccolo's Special Beam Canon. This clearly proves that these multi-fusion namekians were not some kind of top-tiers in this tournament. The other namekian even says "so this is the strenght of Universe 7 namekians" when Piccolo defeats him, suggesting that Piccolo is actually strong from their perspective.

So yeah, this was the kind of oponent that Gohan struggled against despite being at full Power. And what bugs me is that the episode plays this up as some triumphant moment. The way that this, ahem, "feat" of Gohan is narratively linked to Goku's ACTUALLY IMPRESSIVE feat of breaking through a black hole is just lame. "Horay! Goku managed to outpower a black hole! And Gohan managed to... struggle against a namekian and get saved by Piccolo!".

I almost prefered it when the narrative aknowledged that Gohan was weak and lame, because at this Point in the series Gohan is supposed to be "back" and is presented and talked about as such, and yet in terms of actual shown strenght he still mostly comes of as weak and lame.
Sounds like you're underestimating each and every character involved in that fight, which comes as no surprise because most seem to want to underestimate Namekians in particular. Let's start with the Special Beam Cannon, Makankosappo. It is an attack that drills and it can be powered up far beyond its user as has been shown since it was first used against Raditz. With it, Piccolo, who at the time was far weaker than Frost, was able to pierce Vados' barrier, a feat that only god tier characters seemingly could accomplish. Pirina tanked a halfway charged SBC from a much stronger Piccolo, meaning he's leaps and bounds ahead of him. Only when they were caught unawares were Pirina and Saonel affected by Piccolo's attack. I believe with enough charge that current Piccolo's SBC can pierce just about anyone with the possible exceptions of Jiren, Magetta, Botamo, and the Metal Dragon from U9, and if caught off guard even some of them would succumb to it.

Throughout this battle Piccolo has been shown to be the weakest fighter of the 4 and that was even before Gohan or the U6 Namekians went full power. The Namekians are no slouches and when they stabilized they got even more powerful, proving to be a challenge for even Ultimate Gohan. By the end of it, I'm convinced that they were stronger from a raw power perspective as it took the teamwork of Gohan and Piccolo to do them in. Also Saonel took a full kamehameha to the face and continued flying through it while being sandwiched by Pirina's equal power mouth blast. Pirina was able to fire off that blast without any charge too, so they're no joke in the power department, and they'd only just unlocked their powers. With time they probably would've went even further.

We don't have a ton of evidence about were we can put them in regards to characters like Kale, Caulifla, Kefla, Dyspo, etc. Personally, I can easily see Gohan above Caulifla. I think all she was was hype at the end of the day. Goku was likely toying with her the whole time. I think these Namekians are above her too, at least by the end of this fight, but I don't see them as being superior to Kefla or even Kale. Now if Saonel and Pirina fused, they'd probably be Kefla level. If they did potara fusion, they might be even stronger.
Big fan of the characters of Dragon Ball, all of them, especially formerly prominent sub-characters. -__-

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Re: Gohan's victory over the namekians in the last episode...

Post by HeroR » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:41 pm

SsjCookie wrote:
Michsi wrote:
Ki Breaker wrote:
He was neither reluctant nor passive in this fight, if anything, he took charge and handled it very well. Did nobody see him plant Saonel's head in the ground ? That was brutal for someone who supposedly doesn't like to hurt people.

It just didn't feel like a real boss fight to me, Gohan had some moments fighting the Namekians but again this episode was overshadowed by Goku fighting the remnants of U2.
Why can't they just dedicate a whole episode on one single character for a change?
I feel Goku once again stealed the best fight of this episode.

Gohan's not my favourite character but I think he can do waaaay better.
How did Goku overshadowed anything? Gohan got the best piece of animation in that episode and Piccolo has an emotional scene. Goku’s scenes were more comedy driven.

When people talk about this episode, there’s almost no mention of Goku. It’s mostly Gohan and Piccolo.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Gohan's victory over the namekians in the last episode...

Post by namekiansaiyan » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:46 pm

HeroR wrote:
SsjCookie wrote:
Michsi wrote:
He was neither reluctant nor passive in this fight, if anything, he took charge and handled it very well. Did nobody see him plant Saonel's head in the ground ? That was brutal for someone who supposedly doesn't like to hurt people.

It just didn't feel like a real boss fight to me, Gohan had some moments fighting the Namekians but again this episode was overshadowed by Goku fighting the remnants of U2.
Why can't they just dedicate a whole episode on one single character for a change?
I feel Goku once again stealed the best fight of this episode.

Gohan's not my favourite character but I think he can do waaaay better.
How did Goku overshadowed anything? Gohan got the best piece of animation in that episode and Piccolo has an emotional scene. Goku’s scenes were more comedy driven.

When people talk about this episode, there’s almost no mention of Goku. It’s mostly Gohan and Piccolo.
All I hear constantly is about a father-son kamehameha.

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Re: Gohan's victory over the namekians in the last episode...

Post by HeroR » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:51 pm

namekiansaiyan wrote:
HeroR wrote:
SsjCookie wrote:

It just didn't feel like a real boss fight to me, Gohan had some moments fighting the Namekians but again this episode was overshadowed by Goku fighting the remnants of U2.
Why can't they just dedicate a whole episode on one single character for a change?
I feel Goku once again stealed the best fight of this episode.

Gohan's not my favourite character but I think he can do waaaay better.
How did Goku overshadowed anything? Gohan got the best piece of animation in that episode and Piccolo has an emotional scene. Goku’s scenes were more comedy driven.

When people talk about this episode, there’s almost no mention of Goku. It’s mostly Gohan and Piccolo.
All I hear constantly is about a father-son kamehameha.
Most of what I hear is Gohan smashing that one Namekian, Piccolo seeing Kami and Nail, and Gohan defending Piccolo, along with the Kamehameha in the end.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Gohan's victory over the namekians in the last episode...

Post by Michsi » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:55 pm

HeroR wrote:
Most of what I hear is Gohan smashing that one Namekian, Piccolo seeing Kami and Nail, and Gohan defending Piccolo, along with the Kamehameha in the end.
Gotta agree with this, the positive attention has been mostly focused on Piccolo/Gohan.

Though Crunchyroll comments were disappointing to read, all they did was complain about U2 part in the episode :/

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Re: Gohan's victory over the namekians in the last episode...

Post by namekiansaiyan » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:57 pm

HeroR wrote:
namekiansaiyan wrote:
HeroR wrote:
How did Goku overshadowed anything? Gohan got the best piece of animation in that episode and Piccolo has an emotional scene. Goku’s scenes were more comedy driven.

When people talk about this episode, there’s almost no mention of Goku. It’s mostly Gohan and Piccolo.
All I hear constantly is about a father-son kamehameha.
Most of what I hear is Gohan smashing that one Namekian, Piccolo seeing Kami and Nail, and Gohan defending Piccolo, along with the Kamehameha in the end.
There you go, no one mentions Piccolo and his attack compared to the kamehamehas so there is a problem here if this is supposed to be a big Piccolo moment.

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Re: Gohan's victory over the namekians in the last episode...

Post by HeroR » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:31 pm

namekiansaiyan wrote:
HeroR wrote:
namekiansaiyan wrote:
All I hear constantly is about a father-son kamehameha.
Most of what I hear is Gohan smashing that one Namekian, Piccolo seeing Kami and Nail, and Gohan defending Piccolo, along with the Kamehameha in the end.
There you go, no one mentions Piccolo and his attack compared to the kamehamehas so there is a problem here if this is supposed to be a big Piccolo moment.
It was as Battle of Gods moment for Piccolo on an emotional level, which got people talking.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Gohan's victory over the namekians in the last episode...

Post by namekiansaiyan » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:37 pm

HeroR wrote:
namekiansaiyan wrote:
HeroR wrote:
Most of what I hear is Gohan smashing that one Namekian, Piccolo seeing Kami and Nail, and Gohan defending Piccolo, along with the Kamehameha in the end.
There you go, no one mentions Piccolo and his attack compared to the kamehamehas so there is a problem here if this is supposed to be a big Piccolo moment.
It was as Battle of Gods moment for Piccolo on an emotional level, which got people talking.
You mean like Goku giving up against Beerus?

I thought Piccolo doing a successful Special Beam Cannon for the first time since Raditz and with it going through Saonel, Pirina a Kamehameha and a Mouth Beam would be a huge of talking. Obviously I am wrong and that is because I don't really care for emotional moments that much in dragon Ball.

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Re: Gohan's victory over the namekians in the last episode...

Post by HeroR » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:46 pm

namekiansaiyan wrote:
HeroR wrote:
namekiansaiyan wrote:
There you go, no one mentions Piccolo and his attack compared to the kamehamehas so there is a problem here if this is supposed to be a big Piccolo moment.
It was as Battle of Gods moment for Piccolo on an emotional level, which got people talking.
You mean like Goku giving up against Beerus?

I thought Piccolo doing a successful Special Beam Cannon for the first time since Raditz and with it going through Saonel, Pirina a Kamehameha and a Mouth Beam would be a huge of talking. Obviously I am wrong and that is because I don't really care for emotional moments that much in dragon Ball.
Well, Goku didn’t give up in the retelling and Piccolo’s emotional moment wasn’t like that.

Well, that’s you, nothing wrong with that. A lot of fans do love the emotional moments, which is why fans loved the writing for U6 and U2’s erasers.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Gohan's victory over the namekians in the last episode...

Post by Mac » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:17 am

It was a good fight, I didn't mind it at all.

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Re: Gohan's victory over the namekians in the last episode...

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:50 am

This really seems to be an an issue over nothing. A very strong character defeated another very strong character and it looked good while it was happening.

That's a good fight and episode in my book. I don't really ask much from a simple story like Dragon Ball.

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Re: Gohan's victory over the namekians in the last episode...

Post by namekiansaiyan » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:54 am

Lord Beerus wrote:This really seems to be an an issue over nothing. A very strong character defeated another very strong character and it looked good while it was happening.

That's a good fight and episode in my book. I don't really ask much from a simple story like Dragon Ball.
What I get from the opening post is that all Namekians should have been way weaker and Gohan way stronger. He doesn't like the fact that Gohan couldn't beat Saonel and Pirina.

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Re: Gohan's victory over the namekians in the last episode...

Post by SsjCookie » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:58 am

HeroR wrote:
SsjCookie wrote:
Michsi wrote:
He was neither reluctant nor passive in this fight, if anything, he took charge and handled it very well. Did nobody see him plant Saonel's head in the ground ? That was brutal for someone who supposedly doesn't like to hurt people.

It just didn't feel like a real boss fight to me, Gohan had some moments fighting the Namekians but again this episode was overshadowed by Goku fighting the remnants of U2.
Why can't they just dedicate a whole episode on one single character for a change?
I feel Goku once again stealed the best fight of this episode.

Gohan's not my favourite character but I think he can do waaaay better.
How did Goku overshadowed anything? Gohan got the best piece of animation in that episode and Piccolo has an emotional scene. Goku’s scenes were more comedy driven.

When people talk about this episode, there’s almost no mention of Goku. It’s mostly Gohan and Piccolo.

It seems to be difficult for the writers to let Goku out for just one episode and let Gohan and Piccolo be the 100% centre of the action for a change.
I'm not saying it was a bad episode but I was hoping for more screentime from Gohan and Piccolo.

And how many times have we seen the Namekians in this tournament...2 or 3 times?
Not enough to give them any relative importance in comparison to say ...Ribrianne or Toppo.
It didn't feel like a big thing when they were defeated to be honest.

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Re: Gohan's victory over the namekians in the last episode...

Post by HeroR » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:52 am

SsjCookie wrote:

It seems to be difficult for the writers to let Goku out for just one episode and let Gohan and Piccolo be the 100% centre of the action for a change.
I'm not saying it was a bad episode but I was hoping for more screentime from Gohan and Piccolo.

And how many times have we seen the Namekians in this tournament...2 or 3 times?
Not enough to give them any relative importance in comparison to say ...Ribrianne or Toppo.
It didn't feel like a big thing when they were defeated to be honest.
Goku was in the episode since it was continuing off of last episode where Goku was being attacked by U2 and it was a double KO for two universes. And the androids were there with Goku, so it was hardly just him fighting U2.

We have seen the Namekians since 111. The only time we didn't see them was in 113. So we saw them for six episodes.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Gohan's victory over the namekians in the last episode...

Post by namekiansaiyan » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:58 am

HeroR wrote:
SsjCookie wrote:

It seems to be difficult for the writers to let Goku out for just one episode and let Gohan and Piccolo be the 100% centre of the action for a change.
I'm not saying it was a bad episode but I was hoping for more screentime from Gohan and Piccolo.

And how many times have we seen the Namekians in this tournament...2 or 3 times?
Not enough to give them any relative importance in comparison to say ...Ribrianne or Toppo.
It didn't feel like a big thing when they were defeated to be honest.
Goku was in the episode since it was continuing off of last episode where Goku was being attacked by U2 and it was a double KO for two universes. And the androids were there with Goku, so it was hardly just him fighting U2.

We have seen the Namekians since 111. The only time we didn't see them was in 113. So we saw them for six episodes.
We did not see them in episodes 113 and 114 and in episode 111 and 117 they just talked for 10 seconds and in episode 116 they just jumped away and had one line each to Champa.

Episode 118 could have been just goku agaunst Universe and episode 119 could have been just Piccolo and Gohan agilaisnt Saonel and Pirina.

The only good reason they have to present it the way they did is if Toriyama said that Universe 2 and 6 go at the exact same time.

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Re: Gohan's victory over the namekians in the last episode...

Post by HeroR » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:11 am

namekiansaiyan wrote:
We did not see them in episodes 113 and 114 and in episode 111 and 117 they just talked for 10 seconds and in episode 116 they just jumped away and had one line each to Champa.

Episode 118 could have been just goku agaunst Universe and episode 119 could have been just Piccolo and Gohan agilaisnt Saonel and Pirina.

The only good reason they have to present it the way they did is if Toriyama said that Universe 2 and 6 go at the exact same time.
Made a mistake with 114, but the point is that we saw them and they were fighting.

They obviously didn't want all five remaining members of U2 to go out in one episode, especially given how their last stand was given. This episode was about the erased universes as well as U7. Namely, both U2 and U7 were on their last legs, knew they had little chance at winning, but given their all. U2 was not in that position in 117 since they still had half of their team.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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