Has Vegeta been a good character as of recently? I think not.

[SupremeKai25]

Agreed OP, i really detest the character of Vegeta. They threw his entire character development in Z out of the window. Remember when he aknowledged Goku would always be superior during the Kid Buu fight? Now he wants to master Ultra Instinct before Goku?! Get lost. I chuckle when people say he cares about his family. If i recall correctly, he didn't give a damn that Black killed Future Bulma in the Trunks' arc. Plus remember when he charged Black and Zamasu without any strategy whatsoever? Ridiculous. I genuinely cheered when Black stabbed that prick and put him in his place. He's just a warm-up, nothing more.

name one fight Goku won in super that mattered and Freeza doesn't count since he lost first.

He won the beam struggle against Fused Zamasu. His victory in that fight mattered -a lot-. Had Fused Zamasu won, the Divine Wrath would have obliterated the planet. In addition, his victory in that fight resulted in the balance between Zamasu's immortal soul and half-mortal body deteroriating, which led to Zamasu devolving into a deranged and corrupted form.

[Simere]

I haven't really been liking Vegeta since the Black arc started. He was very enjoyable before that. I don't know if it's because of a change in his portrayal, or if it's because that's when "Vegeta fans" started pushing hard for him to hijack the show. The latter makes me root against him.

[snpaa]

The problem is that they are trying to regress his character back into what he use to be, but clearly they don't want to go back to saiyan saga , namek saga and cell saga vegeta where he was absolutely ruthless, went against the wishes of the rest of the cast and capable of anything . So now he just comes off as pale imitation of himself without any teeth to leave a significant impression.

I really don't see what's appealing about vegeta's character in super , who gives a shit if he loves his family , we already knew that from watching the buu saga that he clearly gave a shit about them, now it feels like that they expect me go AWWWWWWWWWWW like a 80/90s studio audience every time vegeta has normal interaction with his family as if this is some sort of big revelation in his character development - NO IT'S NOT This was established 20 fucking years ago.

Now the new direction they seem to be going with vegeta is making him into a mentor for cabba, my biggest problem with this is the mentor shtick has already been done with piccolo and gohan also goku with master roshi, kami, korin,etc. Arguably I'd say the most impactful version would be piccolo and gohan and I doubt super writers would be skilled enough to make it on par with that.

I kinda like the master/student relationship Vegeta has with cabba, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I mean cabba is a saiyan so it makes sense for Vegeta to mentor him, it's not that big of a character development (he has pride in the saiyan race so it's not very surprising) but if it were some none-saiyan being that he was mentoring then that would have been a huge development for Vegeta.
I agree, that the fan base exaggerates Vegeta's relationship with his family like it's there first time seeing it, when it's not. Like I said before, Vegeta has become extremely boring.

First off I'd like to clarify I don't have a problem with this being a plot point within the show , my problem is the failure in the show's execution that's it's going to come off superficial leaving no meaningful impression.

Second Vegeta being a saiyan does not somehow make sense for him to want to mentor cabba, Vegeta just like every other humanoid is more complex then being reduced to their ethnicity. Throughout the entirety of dragonball z vegeta has been shown to act autonomously despite his allegiance, or heritage.

1.Even tho he had pride in his race that didn't stop him from killing nappa after goku broke his spine.

2. when he learned about the dragonaballs he verbally stated that he didn't care about reviving raditz because he was a weakling.

3. On the brink of death when he confessed to goku that he didn't care about the fact that frieza killed his entire race

4. He refused to train with Trunks while in room of spirit and time , he chose his own independent type of training.

There are more examples , but What I'm trying to illustrate is that vegeta outside of super has been shown to be a high level sociopath , egomaniac who likes to act independently and hates help from others. Him becoming a mentor to another saiyan is not the next logical step if you were to look at all of his actions and personality on paper. Doing this will be a fundamental change in his character, It could be good if executed correctly but more likely then not super will make it dull or uninteresting , at least for me. One of the biggest red flags is that cabba is not an interesting character, he comes off as every other wimpy generic male protagonist you see every other anime , and we have no history with this character as well . I don't think it's a good sign when the mentor's character development is more interesting then the protoge.

But like I said earlier I don't have a problem with them doing this , I just expect it to be mediocre or bad.

[Kataphrut]

Plus, because of his attitude being like this, we got this amazing exchange:
Toppo: "Fight with me!"
Vegeta: "I'm not interested in the second fiddle."
Toppo: "Aren't you the second fiddle too?"

Also

Toppo: "If you're so interested in Son Goku's fight, I'll let you watch it in peace from the bench!"

Did someone say punchline hehehe

You know what the biggest disappointment of this upcoming Jiren fight is? We won't get to see Toppo actually ring out Vegeta. I'd kind of prefer that.

Regarding Vegeta, the most baffling thing is how rapidly his character degradation seemed to happen the moment he arrived in the stadium. Like, he was one of the best used characters in the first half of Super, and even as far into the TOP arc as Bra's birth, he was still good. The conflict between his desire to fight and his desire to be there for his family was interesting, but I think once Whis provided him that easy out, he just went full-on arrogant warrior.

It's why I'll be fine if he doesn't ever attain Ultra Instinct. He's just not interesting as a rival any more, but he can still be used well as a foil. The best thing they could do with him now is dump the obsession with surpassing Goku entirely and go all in on the dad/mentor angle.

[Issei189]

Yeah, I agree with some of these points. It was out of character for the current Vegeta to boost himself when he knows the stakes and how strong Jiren is.

[Kaiosama]

There's just more interesting rivals now. Vegeta is old news and should be discarded. Characters like Jiren, Frieza, and Hit are much better rivals at this point in time.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Honestly, I'm against most of the folks here (as usual, really). I really like Vegeta's character.

He's arrogant and cocky, but shows off his softer side in nice and funny ways. He talks big, but that's just because he's EARNED his big talk thanks to the massive catching up he did to Goku in recent years. As a proud warrior with a genetically-ingrained warrior mentality, him boasting and wanting to not be left in the dust by Goku AGAIN is fine by me.

Sure, he's blunt and often just tries ramming his head against things figuratively speaking, but that's just who Vegeta is. A disgruntled and self-absorbed fighter that can never quite get over the fact that Goku surpassed him. It's no longer a rivalry to the death, and I like that Vegeta is always TRYING. He usually doesn't succeed, but it's certainly a lot more than can be said for the likes of someone like Gohan.

I don't know, it always seems like people blow these criticisms WAY out of the water, like as though this is the worst thing ever and has ruined DB forever.

[TheSaiyanGod]

As much as I like Vegeta as a character, I'll have to agree with you when it comes with the display of Vegeta in this tournament.
Vegeta just never learns.
I blame the writers though, they always play the same scenario between Goku and Vegeta and it becomes highly annoying.

It's always the same, Goku always wins and Vegeta gets to mope about it afterwards.
I'm hoping for a different outcome this tournament though.

Nah, I'll have respectfully disagree, Goku in super has lost most of his major fights. Beerus defeated him twice, freeza kinda defeated him, frost, hit, Goku black, merged Zamasu and Jiren have all defeated him. Goku has been losing a lot in Super but in way he has also been winning. As for the Goku and Vegeta rivalry, it has become very boring as Goku doesn't give a shit about him anymore while Vegeta is constantly trying one up him.

This is one of the worst arguments used to defend Goku.

The number of victories does not matter if it normally takes up 90% of the screen time of the other characters, it always outweighs its opponents (or equals) with new transformations and creates an abyss of power between him and his teammates.

What about Vegeta? In DBS, did he beat any character who has the same level of power as him? Did you do anything relevant besides get the SSB?

The manga is really treating him so much better.

[MajinMan]

I've been saying this for months. Literally. I don't like talking about the same thing over and over again, but I 100% agree. Vegeta has dropped from one of the more interesting characters to the least interesting character in the tournament. And that's saying something. After the way he was written in the Future Trunks arc (which many people seem to ignore when talking about Vegeta in Super), I thought he was going to be great in this arc, especially after the first few episodes. But nope. He's a carbon copy of his Cell arc self at times. Sure, he cares for his family, he cares about Cabba, he cares about winning, but 90% of his lines consist of him complaining, grunting, or talking shit to Goku. It's impossible for me to give a damn about him anymore, so when he does get his big moment, it's going to be hard to care.

[Michsi]

Vegeta may not have been at his best up until now, but people need to remember that all it takes is for one episode to turn that whole thing around. Think the positive reception his episode with Roshi got. I think he and 18 had very polarizing portrayal, going from ok to full on tsundere.

[Issei189]

There's just more interesting rivals now. Vegeta is old news and should be discarded. Characters like Jiren, Frieza, and Hit are much better rivals at this point in time.

That's my problem with Toei. They treat Vegeta like a rival, but didn't give him the power and skills to back it up. The manga is actually doing it right

[iamthelaw7]

I'm convinced that Toei/ Toriyama secretly love to trash their characters. We already have a great collection in Super, some highlights include:

• Gohan almost dying while trying to power up to SSJ, in a track suit.
• Vegeta saying he will defeat Goku in the ToP when they are on the same team.
• Goku never kissing Chi-Chi even though he's banged her at least twice.
• Vegeta thinking he can take on Jiren with SSB.
• Vegeta thinking he's on top with only SSB.
• Gohan forgetting to ask why Future Trunks was visiting, despite knowing that he is from an alternate universe where all the Z fighters are dead, hadn't seen him in years, and Future Trunks looked like shit.
• Gohan refusing to help his dad and Vegeta out in the U6 tourney because he had a prior scheduled conference.
• Vegeta telling Goku Black that he is superior to Goku, apparently forgetting that Goku has SSBKK.
• Goku not understanding what pregnancy is even though he has two kids.
• Goku trying to convince Vegeta to ditch pregnant Bulma for training.
• Vegeta refusing to give energy to the spirit bomb because he doesn't want to help, then decides to help by holding off fodder Ribrianne in base form, without donating energy, as the best course of action.
• Goku trying to piss himself all over Whis, then trying to piss on Beerus' palace apparently forgetting the concept of a restroom.
• Gohan forgetting about his training like 4 times in the series, despite saying he wants to get stronger to protect his family and having the most potential out of everyone.
• Goku suffering from short term memory loss and forgetting shit repeatedly in the Future Trunks arc.

[Freeza9000]

Gohan almost dying while trying to power up to SSJ, in a track suit.

In case you forgotten, his body was already made into swiss cheese by Freeza, so of course he would be at the brink of death.

Gohan forgetting to ask why Future Trunks was visiting, despite knowing that he is from an alternate universe where all the Z fighters are dead, hadn't seen him in years, and Future Trunks looked like shit.

For all Gohan knows, Trunks could be simply paying a casual visit to the present and simply just that.

Gohan refusing to help his dad and Vegeta out in the U6 tourney because he had a prior scheduled conference.

The U6 tourney doesn't have much stakes to it considering the "penalty" for losing is just a simple transferring of Earth to a different universe. Nothing else.

[iamthelaw7]

Gohan almost dying while trying to power up to SSJ, in a track suit.

In case you forgotten, his body was already made into swiss cheese by Freeza, so of course he would be at the brink of death.

Gohan forgetting to ask why Future Trunks was visiting, despite knowing that he is from an alternate universe where all the Z fighters are dead, hadn't seen him in years, and Future Trunks looked like shit.

For all Gohan knows, Trunks could be simply paying a casual visit to the present and simply just that.

Gohan refusing to help his dad and Vegeta out in the U6 tourney because he had a prior scheduled conference.

The U6 tourney doesn't have much stakes to it considering the "penalty" for losing is just a simple transferring of Earth to a different universe. Nothing else.

I was joking...kind of. But I do think that Gohan not asking why Future Trunks was there was pretty retarded. I don't blame Gohan though, I blame Toei.

[Bullza]

Vegeta has had next to nothing to work with now since he fought Merged Zamasu. In about 50 episodes he hasn't really done anything of much significance or interest aside from saying he wants to use his wish to restore the Universe 6 Saiyans.

That's it.

[PsionicWarrior]

Regarding Vegeta, the most baffling thing is how rapidly his character degradation seemed to happen the moment he arrived in the stadium. Like, he was one of the best used characters in the first half of Super, and even as far into the TOP arc as Bra's birth, he was still good. The conflict between his desire to fight and his desire to be there for his family was interesting, but I think once Whis provided him that easy out, he just went full-on arrogant warrior.

I don't really get why some people think just because of his Z development he shouldn't be arrogant any longer, he can still be arrogant while accepting Goku as the #1 warrior. I don't find it Ooc that deep inside he still wishes to surpass Goku, it's just stronger than him.

[HeroR]

This thread reads like a circle jerk for Vegeta and I'm not even a Vegeta fan (according to some, I hate Vegeta).

For most of Super, Vegeta has been written fine. I would even say he's constantly the best written character on the show. While he has a rivalry with Goku and wants to be #1 in the universe, he isn't completely obsessed with it. Which is fine. The problem was never Vegeta's rivalry in of itself, but how it dominated his entire personality. Everything about Vegeta after the Freeza Saga was 'I must surpassed Kakarot' and it got old fast. That and he was a massive asshole who seemed to exist to keep the plot going past its natural conclusion. Now, Vegeta has a relatively healthy balance. He isn't all 'surpassed Kakarot', but I do wished he was more like Piccolo in this regard. I also wished the show would move away from the whole 'eternal rivals' and maybe give Vegeta a rival of his own. That would be different for Vegeta as a character instead of trying to keep this one-sided rivalry alive.

Most of my problems with Vegeta is in this arc. Imo, Vegeta in the Future Trunks Saga was the best he has ever been written. He was mature, made up to Trunks for being such a jackass in the Android/Cell Saga, he fought Black and Zamasu not for himself, but for Trunks' world (something Black noted when Vegeta got stronger than him), and he was willing to jump in front of a blast for Trunks and saved Goku and Trunks from Black and Zamasu when he had a hole in his chest. I think one of the best lines from Vegeta in that arc was when Black said that Vegeta wanted revenge for his humiliating lost. Vegeta shoots back that no, he isn't fighting because he lost, but for Trunks and his world, making Black note how un-Saiyan-like that statement was. All and all, I loved Future Trunks Saga Vegeta.

That continued into the Universal Survival Saga where Vegeta chose to stay for the birth of his daughter over training and a tournament, not caring if Goku surpassed him. He even showed pride in Gohan finally getting his battle senses back without even speaking a word in 90. But then....he goes into the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and comes out as a different person. Namely, he's more arrogant than usual again, more obsessed with 'surpassing Kakarot', and don't seemed to realized the danger of the tournament since he was more than willing to go in with nine people since 'he was enough'. So I will agree that Vegeta regressed, although he's nowhere near his Android/Cell Saga self. He's closer to early Buu Saga. And even then, we see some of his old development with how he treats Cabba, how he acted with Roshi in 107, and how he reacted to U6's eraser.

So, this is by far the weakest Vegeta has been written in Super, but not as big as a regression as some are pushing.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Vegeta's a good character in that it's always satisfying to watch him get destroyed.

[SupremeKai25]

I think one of the best lines from Vegeta in that arc was when Black said that Vegeta wanted revenge for his humiliating lost. Vegeta shoots back that no, he isn't fighting because he lost, but for Trunks and his world, making Black note how un-Saiyan-like that statement was

Hilarious. Even a Supreme Kai is more Saiyan-like than the Prince of the Saiyans.

[PsionicWarrior]

So, this is by far the weakest Vegeta has been written in Super, but not as big as a regression as some are pushing.

I agree 100% with second part of your statement but not the first. He was worse when acting submissive, he was worse when he put a pacifier in his mouth.

I really agree this is not the best time to criticize Vegeta, I think he's fine in TOP. And that scene when he tried to get UI and get the hits I found hilarious, I genuinely laughed during that scene, and him getting serious after it didn't work was neat.

I wish for him to gain UI, just not in this arc.