DBZ had its own "Battle Royale" and it trumps the ToP

[TheMikado]

I was just finding it ironic, espicially considering its a one sided roffle stomp.

That's the point though. They fought characters on their level rather than powering them up to Dodoria or making Dodoria 2x as strong as Oozaru Vegeta in order to make him a "threat".

Again, your analogy doesn't exactly work because the scene was supposed to demonstrate how incredibly strong the Nameks are(they were stronger than Gohan and Kuririn at the time), and then have them bowled over by a guy that was considerably stronger than Vegeta when he visited Earth. That entire demonstration was to build up how Dodoria, was a guy who was a lot stronger than Vegeta on Earth, by having him annihilate opponents who were stronger than our heroes.

How is that not demonstrating massive power escalation, espicially since Dodoria was annihilated by Vegeta almost directly after his fight against the Nameks.

Also, Oozaru Vegeta, wasn't the main antagonist of the previous arc, that is to say, the foe they spent the most time fighting or had the most difficulty with, that title belonged to a wounded Vegeta, who was far from being at his best. So having opponents like Dodoria, who they establish is stronger than Vegeta when he went to earth at his best, who when injured took loads of punishment to finally defeat and pushed our heroes to their limits, defeats 3 guys currently stronger than our heroes, only to get effortlessly annihilated by Vegeta immediately afterwards, is an extremely clear demonstration of extreme escalation.

The point as I said multiple times is that they didn’t have to make Dodoria or anyone else but frieza more powerful than Oozaru Vegeta to be a threat. That’s the point. Toriyama didn’t raise Dodorias power up to match or exceed Oozaru Vegetas. The power levels were not equalized or inflated for the sake of creating tension to align with previous excessive power levels. Instead. Enemies were permitted to be far weaker than Oozaru Vegeta who was he greatest power level they had met thus far.

[Dbzfan94]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU4L_ILKHZA

It's a very interesting comparison because both are trying to convey a larger scale battle, yet the one animated over 2 decades earlier..well I'll let you draw your own conclusions. You can argue that the ToP is (in theory) on a much larger scale, but you can still scale down the battles to include more participants with interesting choreography instead of what Super has done..which is pretty much another tournament just disguised as a battle royale. It's becoming increasingly frustrating to watch and what I don't understand is how someone who makes the decisions at Toei can't see the difference in quality and the only conclusion I can come up with is that..they don't care?

Honestly I completely forgot about this fight. It's fantastic watching it again.

[JazzMazz]

That's the point though. They fought characters on their level rather than powering them up to Dodoria or making Dodoria 2x as strong as Oozaru Vegeta in order to make him a "threat".

Again, your analogy doesn't exactly work because the scene was supposed to demonstrate how incredibly strong the Nameks are(they were stronger than Gohan and Kuririn at the time), and then have them bowled over by a guy that was considerably stronger than Vegeta when he visited Earth. That entire demonstration was to build up how Dodoria, was a guy who was a lot stronger than Vegeta on Earth, by having him annihilate opponents who were stronger than our heroes.

How is that not demonstrating massive power escalation, espicially since Dodoria was annihilated by Vegeta almost directly after his fight against the Nameks.

Also, Oozaru Vegeta, wasn't the main antagonist of the previous arc, that is to say, the foe they spent the most time fighting or had the most difficulty with, that title belonged to a wounded Vegeta, who was far from being at his best. So having opponents like Dodoria, who they establish is stronger than Vegeta when he went to earth at his best, who when injured took loads of punishment to finally defeat and pushed our heroes to their limits, defeats 3 guys currently stronger than our heroes, only to get effortlessly annihilated by Vegeta immediately afterwards, is an extremely clear demonstration of extreme escalation.

The point as I said multiple times is that they didn’t have to make Dodoria or anyone else but frieza more powerful than Oozaru Vegeta to be a threat. That’s the point. Toriyama didn’t raise Dodorias power up to match or exceed Oozaru Vegetas. The power levels were not equalized or inflated for the sake of creating tension to align with previous excessive power levels. Instead. Enemies were permitted to be far weaker than Oozaru Vegeta who was he greatest power level they had met thus far.

Firstly we don't know exactly how powerful Oozaru Vegeta. Vegeta says he got ten times stronger, but Goku only mentions going up to Kaio Ken x5 for some reason. Also, again, it doesn't really matter, Oozaru Vegeta wasn't the thing that gave our heroes the most trouble. It was regular, brutally beaten down Vegeta.

Secondly, Dodoria existed for the sole purpose of power inflation, his entire purpose was to demonstrate how screwd our protagonists were, and to further demonstrate how OP Vegeta had gotten since we last saw him on Earth. You don't need to have the characters be stronger than the last big bad to demonstrate power inflation, all you need to do is demonstrate how much of a difference in power there was between characters then and now, and the Namek arc did that in droves.

[IGhostUlt]

What a horrible comparison. That fight is like what 2 minutes? If you expect the whole top to have animation like that then you're in for a rude awakening.

[Miracles]

Bad comparison. However, that short clip shows DBZ can never be eclipsed. The swag of the animation, the style and fluidity of movement, the BG music setting the serious tone, The hard hitting blows and powerful voice acting.

[Michsi]

I would have loved for the arc to have at least one or two moments like this at least. An all-out brawl with fighters jumping in and out of the fight. I woudn't have been feasible to have the entire TOP done this way, but a couple more of such team battles would've really helped. I feel like 118 is the closest we got to that.

And yes, we have to mention the difference in tone as well.

[JulieYBM]

Dragon Ball Z had a mildly good production schedule with a young up-and-coming hot shot animator named Hisada Kazuya employing Kanada Yoshinori-style animation without having to worry about correcting other key animators' work a lot of the time (at this point Take'uchi Tomekichi was still the animation supervisor of the Seigasha episodes). Dragon Ball Super isn't produced in that kind of environment anymore. It's regular skilled animators are no longer a part of set team with properly planned schedules. Tate Naoki (Hisada's peer) is the only skilled animator regularly involved with the franchise now and he more often than not has to spend time correcting the drawings of other animators, which eats into his already tiny amount of time for working on his episodes.

The Namekian fight is a lot of fun, but it's hardly something none can surpass. PreCure's done wilder with its team fights.

[Michsi]

Dragon Ball Z had a mildly good production schedule with a young up-and-coming hot shot animator named Hisada Kazuya employing Kanada Yoshinori-style animation without having to worry about correcting other key animators' work a lot of the time (at this point Take'uchi Tomekichi was still the animation supervisor of the Seigasha episodes). Dragon Ball Super isn't produced in that kind of environment anymore. It's regular skilled animators are no longer a part of set team with properly planned schedules. Tate Naoki (Hisada's peer) is the only skilled animator regularly involved with the franchise now and he more often than not has to spend time correcting the drawings of other animators, which eats into his already tiny amount of time for working on his episodes.

The Namekian fight is a lot of fun, but it's hardly something none can surpass. PreCure's done wilder with its team fights.

Tanaka Hironori!!!!

Still hoping he'll work on Super one day. Though I have to say, that Precure clip is not the best work I've seen from him. Wonder if the studio's schedule also messed up his work. What I've seen in other shows are a few levels above.

[TheMikado]

Again, your analogy doesn't exactly work because the scene was supposed to demonstrate how incredibly strong the Nameks are(they were stronger than Gohan and Kuririn at the time), and then have them bowled over by a guy that was considerably stronger than Vegeta when he visited Earth. That entire demonstration was to build up how Dodoria, was a guy who was a lot stronger than Vegeta on Earth, by having him annihilate opponents who were stronger than our heroes.

How is that not demonstrating massive power escalation, espicially since Dodoria was annihilated by Vegeta almost directly after his fight against the Nameks.

Also, Oozaru Vegeta, wasn't the main antagonist of the previous arc, that is to say, the foe they spent the most time fighting or had the most difficulty with, that title belonged to a wounded Vegeta, who was far from being at his best. So having opponents like Dodoria, who they establish is stronger than Vegeta when he went to earth at his best, who when injured took loads of punishment to finally defeat and pushed our heroes to their limits, defeats 3 guys currently stronger than our heroes, only to get effortlessly annihilated by Vegeta immediately afterwards, is an extremely clear demonstration of extreme escalation.

The point as I said multiple times is that they didn’t have to make Dodoria or anyone else but frieza more powerful than Oozaru Vegeta to be a threat. That’s the point. Toriyama didn’t raise Dodorias power up to match or exceed Oozaru Vegetas. The power levels were not equalized or inflated for the sake of creating tension to align with previous excessive power levels. Instead. Enemies were permitted to be far weaker than Oozaru Vegeta who was he greatest power level they had met thus far.

Firstly we don't know exactly how powerful Oozaru Vegeta. Vegeta says he got ten times stronger, but Goku only mentions going up to Kaio Ken x5 for some reason. Also, again, it doesn't really matter, Oozaru Vegeta wasn't the thing that gave our heroes the most trouble. It was regular, brutally beaten down Vegeta.

Secondly, Dodoria existed for the sole purpose of power inflation, his entire purpose was to demonstrate how screwd our protagonists were, and to further demonstrate how OP Vegeta had gotten since we last saw him on Earth. You don't need to have the characters be stronger than the last big bad to demonstrate power inflation, all you need to do is demonstrate how much of a difference in power there was between characters then and now, and the Namek arc did that in droves.

Ok I will ignore your attempt to downplay Oozaru Vegeta and use my exact words. "There is no CRAZY power inflation." At no point did I say there was none. But rather that the power inflation that did occur was comparable to previous power levels. In fact Dodoria was weaker than Goku on Earth using Kaioken. Your assessment that he is far superior to the power levels seen on Earth is in fact incorrect. He is actually inferior to Goku on Earth and would have been defeated far easier due to a lack of a transformation. Again at this point there was no crazy power inflation. Dodoria was inferior to even Goku while on Earth.

[JazzMazz]

The point as I said multiple times is that they didn’t have to make Dodoria or anyone else but frieza more powerful than Oozaru Vegeta to be a threat. That’s the point. Toriyama didn’t raise Dodorias power up to match or exceed Oozaru Vegetas. The power levels were not equalized or inflated for the sake of creating tension to align with previous excessive power levels. Instead. Enemies were permitted to be far weaker than Oozaru Vegeta who was he greatest power level they had met thus far.

Firstly we don't know exactly how powerful Oozaru Vegeta. Vegeta says he got ten times stronger, but Goku only mentions going up to Kaio Ken x5 for some reason. Also, again, it doesn't really matter, Oozaru Vegeta wasn't the thing that gave our heroes the most trouble. It was regular, brutally beaten down Vegeta.

Secondly, Dodoria existed for the sole purpose of power inflation, his entire purpose was to demonstrate how screwd our protagonists were, and to further demonstrate how OP Vegeta had gotten since we last saw him on Earth. You don't need to have the characters be stronger than the last big bad to demonstrate power inflation, all you need to do is demonstrate how much of a difference in power there was between characters then and now, and the Namek arc did that in droves.

Ok I will ignore your attempt to downplay Oozaru Vegeta and use my exact words. "There is no CRAZY power inflation." At no point did I say there was none. But rather that the power inflation that did occur was comparable to previous power levels. In fact Dodoria was weaker than Goku on Earth using Kaioken. Your assessment that he is far superior to the power levels seen on Earth is in fact incorrect. He is actually inferior to Goku on Earth and would have been defeated far easier due to a lack of a transformation. Again at this point there was no crazy power inflation. Dodoria was inferior to even Goku while on Earth.

He isn't being used as a comparison for Goku, Dodoria was a guy stronger than Vegeta was on Earth, his entire point of existing to give one line of exposition, before being absolutely annihilated, as a demonstration of how powerful Vegeta has gotten after recovering from his battle on Earth, and does establishes how Zenkai's are the real deal.
There is the power inflation. They used a guy stronger than the main villain of the previous arc was on Earth, and had Vegeta completely annihilate him to demonstrate how much stronger his gotten. How isn't that massive power inflation?

[TheMikado]

Firstly we don't know exactly how powerful Oozaru Vegeta. Vegeta says he got ten times stronger, but Goku only mentions going up to Kaio Ken x5 for some reason. Also, again, it doesn't really matter, Oozaru Vegeta wasn't the thing that gave our heroes the most trouble. It was regular, brutally beaten down Vegeta.

Secondly, Dodoria existed for the sole purpose of power inflation, his entire purpose was to demonstrate how screwd our protagonists were, and to further demonstrate how OP Vegeta had gotten since we last saw him on Earth. You don't need to have the characters be stronger than the last big bad to demonstrate power inflation, all you need to do is demonstrate how much of a difference in power there was between characters then and now, and the Namek arc did that in droves.

Ok I will ignore your attempt to downplay Oozaru Vegeta and use my exact words. "There is no CRAZY power inflation." At no point did I say there was none. But rather that the power inflation that did occur was comparable to previous power levels. In fact Dodoria was weaker than Goku on Earth using Kaioken. Your assessment that he is far superior to the power levels seen on Earth is in fact incorrect. He is actually inferior to Goku on Earth and would have been defeated far easier due to a lack of a transformation. Again at this point there was no crazy power inflation. Dodoria was inferior to even Goku while on Earth.

He isn't being used as a comparison for Goku, Dodoria was a guy stronger than Vegeta was on Earth, his entire point of existing to give one line of exposition, before being absolutely annihilated, as a demonstration of how powerful Vegeta has gotten after recovering from his battle on Earth, and does establishes how Zenkai's are the real deal.
There is the power inflation. They used a guy stronger than the main villain of the previous arc was on Earth, and had Vegeta completely annihilate him to demonstrate how much stronger his gotten. How isn't that massive power inflation?

Does this look like massive power inflation to you?

Vegeta goes from 18K to 24K?
Dodoria is at 24K and one of the strongest fighters in all the universe.
Goku on Earth already pushed past 24K making him on Earth stronger than both.
Not even accounting for Oozaru Vegeta.

Goku (suppressed)
5,000
Vol. 19, #222
Goku
Over 8,000
Vol. 19, #224
Goku (x2 Kaioken)
16,002+
Calculated
Goku (x3 Kaioken)
24,003+
Calculated
Goku (x4 Kaioken)
32,004+
Calculated

Vegeta
18,000
Vol. 21, #249
Vegeta (Great Ape)
180,000 (At full strength)
Calculated


Vegeta
24,000
Vol. 21, #249
Dodoria
22,000
Daizenshuu 7
Zarbon
23,000
Daizenshuu 7

Again at this stage when introducing new characters there was no need to make them much more powerful if even making them more powerful at all. As stated they didn't need to make the villians or other characters as strong or stronger than Goku or Oozaru Vegeta to make the fights interesting. There was no massive power inflation at this point.

[Generico Garbagio]

It doesn't matter, so long as Frieza's there.

[Lord Beerus]

This is not an apt comparison in the slightest. It is nicely directed, I'll give it that.

[JulieYBM]

Dragon Ball Z had a mildly good production schedule with a young up-and-coming hot shot animator named Hisada Kazuya employing Kanada Yoshinori-style animation without having to worry about correcting other key animators' work a lot of the time (at this point Take'uchi Tomekichi was still the animation supervisor of the Seigasha episodes). Dragon Ball Super isn't produced in that kind of environment anymore. It's regular skilled animators are no longer a part of set team with properly planned schedules. Tate Naoki (Hisada's peer) is the only skilled animator regularly involved with the franchise now and he more often than not has to spend time correcting the drawings of other animators, which eats into his already tiny amount of time for working on his episodes.

The Namekian fight is a lot of fun, but it's hardly something none can surpass. PreCure's done wilder with its team fights.

Tanaka Hironori!!!!

Still hoping he'll work on Super one day. Though I have to say, that Precure clip is not the best work I've seen from him. Wonder if the studio's schedule also messed up his work. What I've seen in other shows are a few levels above.

I hope Tanaka Hironori someday works on Dragon Ball, too. His lines and timing are so much fun. For that episode, Tanaka did nearly five minutes worth of key animation and even choreographed the fights on his own. I imagine he only have six-to-eight weeks to do all of that.

Shida Naotoshi is also good at team fights. His fights for Disk Wars: Avengers prove as much.

[supersaiyanZero]

When I read the title I thought you were talking about the one in Buu arc with Mighty Mask vs C18 vs Satan vs the other two guys 99% of this fanbase don't remember their names...

Goku/Vegeta vs Universe 9 is much better than that to be honest, and this isn't a good comparison.

ToP = 20+ episodes of fighting and still counting.
That fight = Not even 3 minutes...

For you to make such comparison, I don't think you know what you're talking about. This would only make sense if both battle royals had around the same length.
You can compare that scene to the GoDs battle royal in DBS manga, and as expected Toyotaro delivered it.

It's not hard to make a short fight look cool, but to do a Tournament with non-stop fighting that lasts 20+episodes, while keeping art/animation consistency and still delivering memorable scenes, now that's really hard. Truly a milestone, I must say, because I'm sure not every studio can pull it off.

I'm not complaining that they aren't bringing us A+ level animation for over 20+ episodes consistently. People like you grossly misinterpret my post because you're rushing to blindly come to Super's defense about anything. For you to say that Goku/Vegeta vs Universe 9 is much better implies to me that you don't know what you're talking about. In that simple 2 minute scene there was excellent choreography, a sense of atmosphere, characters are clearly expressive and you can see the stakes in their movements/faces, the hard hitting blows have more impact than most of Super's tenure let alone that fight you were mentioning. (and I'm not saying that fight was piss poor, mind you. it was decent by Super's standards.)

And for you to say that Super reached a MILESTONE? Are you kidding me? 20+ episodes of poor fights mixed in with insane amounts of exposition and 2 minute introduction/backstories to try and develop characters is nothing short of poor planning. In this 2 minute clip we don't really get to know who these Namekians are, but we already have more of a feeling of what their convictions are and what they are fighting for, Frieza/Dodoria/Zarbon's personalities come through subtly enough for us to pick up on who those characters are, and there is a real sense of what's at stake here.

This is not an apt comparison in the slightest. It is nicely directed, I'll give it that.

What a horrible comparison. That fight is like what 2 minutes? If you expect the whole top to have animation like that then you're in for a rude awakening.

It's not a bad comparision. It's an example of what an all out brawl can and should look like. You can zero in on universes and deliver something similar - and by the way, I don't expect the animation to be like that all the time. Hell, I don't expect all the fights in the ToP to be like this at all. There are many more things at work here in this scene than just the fluid animation, there is atmosphere (When the Namek gets serious the background turns in to a flame like color to express the seriousness of the situation he is in and his reaction. It's little artistic designs like that that really bring the scene to life), there are good character moments that subtly reveal to us who they are even if they aren't all that important, there is a tone to the situation that matches the circumstance they are in, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU4L_ILKHZA

It's a very interesting comparison because both are trying to convey a larger scale battle, yet the one animated over 2 decades earlier..well I'll let you draw your own conclusions. You can argue that the ToP is (in theory) on a much larger scale, but you can still scale down the battles to include more participants with interesting choreography instead of what Super has done..which is pretty much another tournament just disguised as a battle royale. It's becoming increasingly frustrating to watch and what I don't understand is how someone who makes the decisions at Toei can't see the difference in quality and the only conclusion I can come up with is that..they don't care?

Oh look, repeated frames, and fodder enemies that no one cares about.

A battle royal is when everyone dukes it out in open field. Ofc ToP isnt like that, its team battles. Since it isnt one on one it is universe vs universe. A true battle royal, would have needed to be so that every character is an enemy to each other. basically 80 character that all want or need to defeat each other, not defeat teams.

And i dont see how that video is awesome. You have got to be joking. There is nothing epic about it, just randoms getting their ass kicked by slightly less namekian fodder, with Zarbon, Dodoria and freaking Freeza watching, who could vaporize all of them in a blink of an eye.

Fights need to be epic, u cant realistically show a battle royal, since that would mean, constantly seeing all the fighters fight from afar, and everyone would just throw random ki blasts n stuff around and people would randomly fall off the arena.

So far, i think they did a good job, even tho there were some not so interesting episodes. But what is good about this arc, is that it is very rewatchable for me. Since it isnt mystery or what not.

Repeated frames and fodder enemies? You mean, the entirety of the ToP arc? Are you joking?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU4L_ILKHZA

It's a very interesting comparison because both are trying to convey a larger scale battle, yet the one animated over 2 decades earlier..well I'll let you draw your own conclusions. You can argue that the ToP is (in theory) on a much larger scale, but you can still scale down the battles to include more participants with interesting choreography instead of what Super has done..which is pretty much another tournament just disguised as a battle royale. It's becoming increasingly frustrating to watch and what I don't understand is how someone who makes the decisions at Toei can't see the difference in quality and the only conclusion I can come up with is that..they don't care?

There's absolutely nothing execptional about this "battle royale" as you call it.

Edit: I knew I had seen your nick before. You're the guy who likes to shit on Super: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=40551&p=1426645#p1426645 So no surprise this post comes from you.

"Nothing exceptional": It was well animated, directed, choreographed, written, moved the story forward, subtly showed us character traits for us to start forming opinions on them, and a treat to watch even though the characters fighting didn't have that much meaning to the overall story. And yes, I have my criticisms of Super. So what? I can acknowledge it's improvements but it still has a long way for me to go to even be considered a successor to the series.

[UpFromTheSkies]

There are parts of the ToP that show multiple groups of people all fighting together in a way similar to the fight scene on Namek, but it's not like that the entire time and I don't want it to be.

[JazzMazz]

Ok I will ignore your attempt to downplay Oozaru Vegeta and use my exact words. "There is no CRAZY power inflation." At no point did I say there was none. But rather that the power inflation that did occur was comparable to previous power levels. In fact Dodoria was weaker than Goku on Earth using Kaioken. Your assessment that he is far superior to the power levels seen on Earth is in fact incorrect. He is actually inferior to Goku on Earth and would have been defeated far easier due to a lack of a transformation. Again at this point there was no crazy power inflation. Dodoria was inferior to even Goku while on Earth.

He isn't being used as a comparison for Goku, Dodoria was a guy stronger than Vegeta was on Earth, his entire point of existing to give one line of exposition, before being absolutely annihilated, as a demonstration of how powerful Vegeta has gotten after recovering from his battle on Earth, and does establishes how Zenkai's are the real deal.
There is the power inflation. They used a guy stronger than the main villain of the previous arc was on Earth, and had Vegeta completely annihilate him to demonstrate how much stronger his gotten. How isn't that massive power inflation?

Does this look like massive power inflation to you?

Vegeta goes from 18K to 24K?
Dodoria is at 24K and one of the strongest fighters in all the universe.
Goku on Earth already pushed past 24K making him on Earth stronger than both.
Not even accounting for Oozaru Vegeta.

Goku (suppressed)
5,000
Vol. 19, #222
Goku
Over 8,000
Vol. 19, #224
Goku (x2 Kaioken)
16,002+
Calculated
Goku (x3 Kaioken)
24,003+
Calculated
Goku (x4 Kaioken)
32,004+
Calculated

Vegeta
18,000
Vol. 21, #249
Vegeta (Great Ape)
180,000 (At full strength)
Calculated


Vegeta
24,000
Vol. 21, #249
Dodoria
22,000
Daizenshuu 7
Zarbon
23,000
Daizenshuu 7

Again at this stage when introducing new characters there was no need to make them much more powerful if even making them more powerful at all. As stated they didn't need to make the villians or other characters as strong or stronger than Goku or Oozaru Vegeta to make the fights interesting. There was no massive power inflation at this point.

The numbers are irrelevant, what matters is the events that actually occur in the story, and what occurs is Vegeta absolutely annihilating a bad that was stronger than he was on Earth with next to no effort. As I've said previously, what does it say about the chances our heroes have currently, against a guy that was stronger than Vegeta on Earth and was shown to be able to easily dispatch more capable warriors than themselves, who in turn was absolutely annihilated by the current Vegeta. This is super obvious power inflation.

Let me provide a hypothetical for Super, after Goku attains SSB, he absolutely annihilates Beerus without a second thought instanteously, however, there are still stronger GoDs and angels in the multiverse, with Zeno being the head honcho. Thats basically what happened on Namek. A character who was stronger than the main villain of the previous arc was completely destroyed to demonstrate how powerful a certain character had become.

[supersaiyanZero]

He isn't being used as a comparison for Goku, Dodoria was a guy stronger than Vegeta was on Earth, his entire point of existing to give one line of exposition, before being absolutely annihilated, as a demonstration of how powerful Vegeta has gotten after recovering from his battle on Earth, and does establishes how Zenkai's are the real deal.
There is the power inflation. They used a guy stronger than the main villain of the previous arc was on Earth, and had Vegeta completely annihilate him to demonstrate how much stronger his gotten. How isn't that massive power inflation?

Does this look like massive power inflation to you?

Vegeta goes from 18K to 24K?
Dodoria is at 24K and one of the strongest fighters in all the universe.
Goku on Earth already pushed past 24K making him on Earth stronger than both.
Not even accounting for Oozaru Vegeta.

Goku (suppressed)
5,000
Vol. 19, #222
Goku
Over 8,000
Vol. 19, #224
Goku (x2 Kaioken)
16,002+
Calculated
Goku (x3 Kaioken)
24,003+
Calculated
Goku (x4 Kaioken)
32,004+
Calculated

Vegeta
18,000
Vol. 21, #249
Vegeta (Great Ape)
180,000 (At full strength)
Calculated


Vegeta
24,000
Vol. 21, #249
Dodoria
22,000
Daizenshuu 7
Zarbon
23,000
Daizenshuu 7

Again at this stage when introducing new characters there was no need to make them much more powerful if even making them more powerful at all. As stated they didn't need to make the villians or other characters as strong or stronger than Goku or Oozaru Vegeta to make the fights interesting. There was no massive power inflation at this point.

The numbers are irrelevant, what matters is the events that actually occur in the story, and what occurs is Vegeta absolutely annihilating a bad that was stronger than he was on Earth with next to no effort. As I've said previously, what does it say about the chances our heroes have currently, against a guy that was stronger than Vegeta on Earth and was shown to be able to easily dispatch more capable warriors than themselves, who in turn was absolutely annihilated by the current Vegeta. This is super obvious power inflation.

Let me provide a hypothetical for Super, after Goku attains SSB, he absolutely annihilates Beerus without a second thought instanteously, however, there are still stronger GoDs and angels in the multiverse, with Zeno being the head honcho. Thats basically what happened on Namek. A character who was stronger than the main villain of the previous arc was completely destroyed to demonstrate how powerful a certain character had become.

'
Your comparison makes no sense. Dodoria and Zarbon might have been stronger than Vegeta, but they were in the same ballpark. So much so that even when Vegeta took on Zarbon a second time after healing from his first defeat, it still wasn't easy. It's not "obvious power inflation" like you put it and comes nowhere close to Goku absolutely annihilating Beerus. There was a logical progression in strength for Vegeta in the Namek saga be it Zenkais and whatnot.

[JazzMazz]

Does this look like massive power inflation to you?

Vegeta goes from 18K to 24K?
Dodoria is at 24K and one of the strongest fighters in all the universe.
Goku on Earth already pushed past 24K making him on Earth stronger than both.
Not even accounting for Oozaru Vegeta.

Goku (suppressed)
5,000
Vol. 19, #222
Goku
Over 8,000
Vol. 19, #224
Goku (x2 Kaioken)
16,002+
Calculated
Goku (x3 Kaioken)
24,003+
Calculated
Goku (x4 Kaioken)
32,004+
Calculated

Vegeta
18,000
Vol. 21, #249
Vegeta (Great Ape)
180,000 (At full strength)
Calculated


Vegeta
24,000
Vol. 21, #249
Dodoria
22,000
Daizenshuu 7
Zarbon
23,000
Daizenshuu 7

Again at this stage when introducing new characters there was no need to make them much more powerful if even making them more powerful at all. As stated they didn't need to make the villians or other characters as strong or stronger than Goku or Oozaru Vegeta to make the fights interesting. There was no massive power inflation at this point.

The numbers are irrelevant, what matters is the events that actually occur in the story, and what occurs is Vegeta absolutely annihilating a bad that was stronger than he was on Earth with next to no effort. As I've said previously, what does it say about the chances our heroes have currently, against a guy that was stronger than Vegeta on Earth and was shown to be able to easily dispatch more capable warriors than themselves, who in turn was absolutely annihilated by the current Vegeta. This is super obvious power inflation.

Let me provide a hypothetical for Super, after Goku attains SSB, he absolutely annihilates Beerus without a second thought instanteously, however, there are still stronger GoDs and angels in the multiverse, with Zeno being the head honcho. Thats basically what happened on Namek. A character who was stronger than the main villain of the previous arc was completely destroyed to demonstrate how powerful a certain character had become.

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Your comparison makes no sense. Dodoria and Zarbon might have been stronger than Vegeta, but they were in the same ballpark. So much so that even when Vegeta took on Zarbon a second time after healing from his first defeat, it still wasn't easy. It's not "obvious power inflation" like you put it and comes nowhere close to Goku absolutely annihilating Beerus. There was a logical progression in strength for Vegeta in the Namek saga be it Zenkais and whatnot.

How are characters, blowing away other characters which we are told are as strong, or stronger than the previous biggest baddest threat, with little to no effort, not an example of power inflation? Vegeta's complete annihilation of Cui and Dodoria, are super clear examples of the power escalation of the series. Both those guys existed to demonstrate how much more powerful Vegeta had gotten from his time on Namek, and push forward the idea that Vegeta was improving.

To use an in universe example, Vegeta destroying Cui and Dodoria is the equivalent of Beerus absolutely wrecking Majin Buu, who was the main big bad of the previous arc that everyone was shitting their pants over, or Majin Buu annihilating Dabura, who is made out to be a Cell level foe, who was the big bad of the previous arc. Do you see what I'm getting at here?

[TheMikado]

The numbers are irrelevant, what matters is the events that actually occur in the story, and what occurs is Vegeta absolutely annihilating a bad that was stronger than he was on Earth with next to no effort. As I've said previously, what does it say about the chances our heroes have currently, against a guy that was stronger than Vegeta on Earth and was shown to be able to easily dispatch more capable warriors than themselves, who in turn was absolutely annihilated by the current Vegeta. This is super obvious power inflation.

Let me provide a hypothetical for Super, after Goku attains SSB, he absolutely annihilates Beerus without a second thought instanteously, however, there are still stronger GoDs and angels in the multiverse, with Zeno being the head honcho. Thats basically what happened on Namek. A character who was stronger than the main villain of the previous arc was completely destroyed to demonstrate how powerful a certain character had become.

'
Your comparison makes no sense. Dodoria and Zarbon might have been stronger than Vegeta, but they were in the same ballpark. So much so that even when Vegeta took on Zarbon a second time after healing from his first defeat, it still wasn't easy. It's not "obvious power inflation" like you put it and comes nowhere close to Goku absolutely annihilating Beerus. There was a logical progression in strength for Vegeta in the Namek saga be it Zenkais and whatnot.

How are characters, blowing away other characters which we are told are as strong, or stronger than the previous biggest baddest threat, with little to no effort, not an example of power inflation? Vegeta's complete annihilation of Cui and Dodoria, are super clear examples of the power escalation of the series. Both those guys existed to demonstrate how much more powerful Vegeta had gotten from his time on Namek, and push forward the idea that Vegeta was improving.

To use an in universe example, Vegeta destroying Cui and Dodoria is the equivalent of Beerus absolutely wrecking Majin Buu, who was the main big bad of the previous arc that everyone was shitting their pants over, or Majin Buu annihilating Dabura, who is made out to be a Cell level foe, who was the big bad of the previous arc. Do you see what I'm getting at here?

No it’s not Vegeta and Cui we’re already the same power level before Vegeta even left for Earth. Vegeta came back 0.3x stronger not 3x stronger. It’s obviously it’s power inflation no one ever said it wasn’t. But it isn’t massive at all. It’s incredibly progressive and measured. You keep flipping back between arguing whether there is power inflation and whether there is massive power inflation. The first is acknowledged but when confronted with the second point you flip back to the first because it’s the only thing you can prove and no one has disputed because it’s true. But again it is not massive power inflation like you claim. It’s progress at this point.