So what is the consensus on Jiren as a character?

[Faisal Shourov]

I am interested in his concept

As for character, Jiren is neither a character nor he has one. He's more of a plot device, pretty cool though. I wasn't expecting anything deep and wasn't disappointed, he did what he was meant for

[WittyUsername]

We really havent. His personality has just started been explored in the manga. We need more before we can make a conclusion.

He’s been prominent in the anime for a while now. Why can’t we make judgements about his character based on what we’ve seen so far?

There’s nothing wrong with making an analysis of a character, but your topic implies that we’ve seen enough so far and now it’s time to make a decision on what we think of him when the arc isn’t over.

That may not be your intention, but that’s how it came across to us.

I wouldn’t say he’s been prominent. Sure he’s had a few scuffles, but I don’t think we are going to learn anything until the end gets closer.

It’s not like I’m forcing anyone to give their thoughts on the character. I chose to make this thread because I wanted to know what the general overview of the character has been thus far.

[JazzMazz]

Where did you see trolling in my post? No I'm not a troll

Woah.

Just woah.

This post is some next level stupid. I think this is quite possibly the dumbest and most out there post I've ever seen on Kanzenshuu. I think that is probably the reason Superfan 2024 thought you were trolling, as no one in their right would ever take your post seriously. I'm sure me, and many others that read your post, were completely gobsmacked, and were left at a total loss for words to describe or express their feelings towards your post for several hours and for those peopleI think this video expresses there feelings towards your post. I guess some congratulations are in order, your the first person on Kanzenshuu I've ever had to respond to with that link.

I apoligize if this comes off as rude or offensive, but I wouldn't be this mean if I didn't sincerely mean it.

Now that I've let out how stupid I feel that post is, I'll now get into a geniune counter-argument. It doesn't matter what crazy conspiracy theory bullshit Jiren is or isn't based off, making your main antagonist completely flat is never a genius move unless you bother to try and add some substance to him, like they attempted to do with Hit. Having a character be true to whatever crazy conspiracy bullshit, even though it makes them boring, doesn't make them an interesting character because they're "realistic". DragonBall is as unrealistic as they come, where a monkey boy based off Eastern Mythology could extend a giant pole to the moon to drop off a rabbit mobster that could turn people into carrots by touching them and where one of the main antagonists was literally a pink piece of bubble gum thats the incarnation of pure evil, however adding a "realistic" character doesn't make them an interesting or a good character if they are boring and lacking in substance charisma like many people found the anime version of Jiren to. Loud mouths can be pretty generic and boring, but they sure as hell beat Jiren as a character because they actually have some form of functioning personality and charisma to them if they are handled properly. Also, giving characters actual depth, such as principles which they follow and act upon, and a geniunely mysterious motivation, makes them a far more interesting and engaging than a character that is "realistic" but has no substance or anything else to them for that matter.

What I'm saying, is just because a character is realistic in the sense it follows a reference to a T, doesn't replace other aspects necessary to make them an engaging character, and its for that reason people largely prefer the manga version of Jiren to his anime counter part, because if though he isn't a whole lot of character to speak , he is still far better established and has far more substance and intrigue to him than his anime counter-part due to them bothering to flesh out aspects of his personalities, his principles and establishing a mystery behind his character motivations.

grey aliens dont have a personality. in that case jiren anime version is the right one. grey aliens are bio robots and psychopaths. they are unable to feel emotions and thus they have no emotions whatsoever. jiren is a grey alien. toei took the inspiration from abductees reports of grey aliens. this was the intention. this is not crazy at all. manga version of jiren is too much like toppo. hes a toppo clone. anime version is way better. arrogent. emotionless and psychotic. this is jiren and this is how he supposed to be. thats what makes him interesting. and you are smug as hell. call me stupid i dont care. i know I'm smarter then you. i know a lot more about life then you. instead of calling me stupid go do your reasarch about grey aliens and then you will understand that its actually you who said the stupidiest thing ever not me. jiren is on point. he is way more interesting in the anime because hes diffrent then all the others.

I'll start off with the easy stuff, how the hell is Jiren in the manga anything like Toppo outside of the fact he believes in justice? He has a completely different personality, and its been made clear through Jirens actions and reactions to things that him and Toppo have completely different views of justice, which is really the only thing that they have in common, as well as entirely different core motivations. With all this said, how is Jiren a Toppo clone, how is a character that is completely different from another on a fundamental level, the same character, because according to you, they are.

I'll start off by repeating what I said previously, it doesn't matter that Jiren in his anime counter-part is more "realistic" or closer to his reference point than his manga counter-part. That doesn't make him a better character. Whats makes one interpretation of a character better than another are thing like how well fleshed out they are. I say the manga version of Jiren is better than his anime counter-part because he is a far more fleshed out character than his anime counter part. What I mean by this, is that the manga version Jiren has an established personality, principles, motivations and mystery behind him, which are all completely lacking in his anime counter-part.

The anime version of Jiren has been described by many as the stock stoic big bad, and thus far, the show has given us no indication that his anything besides that. His personality is bland, uninspired and unengaging for many, and his character has zero depth to it besides the fact his really strong. The anime version of Jiren has no established principles to make him interesting, he has no clear established motivation as of yet, and thus he lacks the mystery that his manga counter-part is established to have early on. The lacks of all these things makes the anime version of Jiren come off husk of his manga self. It doesn't matter if the anime version is "how his supposed to be" if the manga version actually bothers do more with the character.

Also, your description of anime Jiren isn't completely accurate, you describe him as being "arrogent. emotionless and psychotic." Though I definitely agree with you that his arrogant, describing him as psychotic or as a psychopath shows a complete lack of understanding of what psychopaths actually are, I recommend watching the police interview with geniune real life psychopath Paul Bernardo to give you an idea how psychopaths actually act. You could say Freeza is psychopath, you could say Dio Brando from JBA is a psychopath, Jiren isn't a remotely psychotic to say the least. If he was, then why the hell did he turn down the opportunity to literally become a God in both adaptations of his character?

Finally, I shouldn't need to read up on obscure conspiracy theories to fully enjoy Jirens character. The fact that you do need to read up on those conspiracies is maybe an indication that Jiren isn't a good character, since he doesn't have anything else really going for him. Reading up or knowing references can enhance ones enjoyment of a character, but it shouldn't be the foundation for that character, and they should be entertaining beyond just being a reference. Thats pretty much the entire point of universe 2, which is just a big magical girls reference, however, they bothered to try and make them engaging beyond just being a reference. Thats something that I can't say about anime Jiren.

I don't care if you think your smarter than me, or if you have more life experiences than me, thats irrelevant to me pointing out that just because something is a reference, doesn't add automatic likeability, espicially if you have to look up the reference to enjoy the character.

[buutenks]

Jiren isn't a character, he is a plot device. He is there so that Toriyama's favorite cat doesn't get hurt.

[Lord Beerus]

Jiren isn't a character, he is a plot device. He is there so that Toriyama's favorite cat doesn't get hurt.

Um...what?

[Hawk9211]

Woah.

Just woah.

This post is some next level stupid. I think this is quite possibly the dumbest and most out there post I've ever seen on Kanzenshuu. I think that is probably the reason Superfan 2024 thought you were trolling, as no one in their right would ever take your post seriously. I'm sure me, and many others that read your post, were completely gobsmacked, and were left at a total loss for words to describe or express their feelings towards your post for several hours and for those peopleI think this video expresses there feelings towards your post. I guess some congratulations are in order, your the first person on Kanzenshuu I've ever had to respond to with that link.

I apoligize if this comes off as rude or offensive, but I wouldn't be this mean if I didn't sincerely mean it.

Now that I've let out how stupid I feel that post is, I'll now get into a geniune counter-argument. It doesn't matter what crazy conspiracy theory bullshit Jiren is or isn't based off, making your main antagonist completely flat is never a genius move unless you bother to try and add some substance to him, like they attempted to do with Hit. Having a character be true to whatever crazy conspiracy bullshit, even though it makes them boring, doesn't make them an interesting character because they're "realistic". DragonBall is as unrealistic as they come, where a monkey boy based off Eastern Mythology could extend a giant pole to the moon to drop off a rabbit mobster that could turn people into carrots by touching them and where one of the main antagonists was literally a pink piece of bubble gum thats the incarnation of pure evil, however adding a "realistic" character doesn't make them an interesting or a good character if they are boring and lacking in substance charisma like many people found the anime version of Jiren to. Loud mouths can be pretty generic and boring, but they sure as hell beat Jiren as a character because they actually have some form of functioning personality and charisma to them if they are handled properly. Also, giving characters actual depth, such as principles which they follow and act upon, and a geniunely mysterious motivation, makes them a far more interesting and engaging than a character that is "realistic" but has no substance or anything else to them for that matter.

What I'm saying, is just because a character is realistic in the sense it follows a reference to a T, doesn't replace other aspects necessary to make them an engaging character, and its for that reason people largely prefer the manga version of Jiren to his anime counter part, because if though he isn't a whole lot of character to speak , he is still far better established and has far more substance and intrigue to him than his anime counter-part due to them bothering to flesh out aspects of his personalities, his principles and establishing a mystery behind his character motivations.

grey aliens dont have a personality. in that case jiren anime version is the right one. grey aliens are bio robots and psychopaths. they are unable to feel emotions and thus they have no emotions whatsoever. jiren is a grey alien. toei took the inspiration from abductees reports of grey aliens. this was the intention. this is not crazy at all. manga version of jiren is too much like toppo. hes a toppo clone. anime version is way better. arrogent. emotionless and psychotic. this is jiren and this is how he supposed to be. thats what makes him interesting. and you are smug as hell. call me stupid i dont care. i know I'm smarter then you. i know a lot more about life then you. instead of calling me stupid go do your reasarch about grey aliens and then you will understand that its actually you who said the stupidiest thing ever not me. jiren is on point. he is way more interesting in the anime because hes diffrent then all the others.

I'll start off with the easy stuff, how the hell is Jiren in the manga anything like Toppo outside of the fact he believes in justice? He has a completely different personality, and its been made clear through Jirens actions and reactions to things that him and Toppo have completely different views of justice, which is really the only thing that they have in common, as well as entirely different core motivations. With all this said, how is Jiren a Toppo clone, how is a character that is completely different from another on a fundamental level, the same character, because according to you, they are.

I'll start off by repeating what I said previously, it doesn't matter that Jiren in his anime counter-part is more "realistic" or closer to his reference point than his manga counter-part. That doesn't make him a better character. Whats makes one interpretation of a character better than another are thing like how well fleshed out they are. I say the manga version of Jiren is better than his anime counter-part because he is a far more fleshed out character than his anime counter part. What I mean by this, is that the manga version Jiren has an established personality, principles, motivations and mystery behind him, which are all completely lacking in his anime counter-part.

The anime version of Jiren has been described by many as the stock stoic big bad, and thus far, the show has given us no indication that his anything besides that. His personality is bland, uninspired and unengaging for many, and his character has zero depth to it besides the fact his really strong. The anime version of Jiren has no established principles to make him interesting, he has no clear established motivation as of yet, and thus he lacks the mystery that his manga counter-part is established to have early on. The lacks of all these things makes the anime version of Jiren come off husk of his manga self. It doesn't matter if the anime version is "how his supposed to be" if the manga version actually bothers do more with the character.

Also, your description of anime Jiren isn't completely accurate, you describe him as being "arrogent. emotionless and psychotic." Though I definitely agree with you that his arrogant, describing him as psychotic or as a psychopath shows a complete lack of understanding of what psychopaths actually are, I recommend watching the police interview with geniune real life psychopath Paul Bernardo to give you an idea how psychopaths actually act. You could say Freeza is psychopath, you could say Dio Brando from JBA is a psychopath, Jiren isn't a remotely psychotic to say the least. If he was, then why the hell did he turn down the opportunity to literally become a God in both adaptations of his character?

Finally, I shouldn't need to read up on obscure conspiracy theories to fully enjoy Jirens character. The fact that you do need to read up on those conspiracies is maybe an indication that Jiren isn't a good character, since he doesn't have anything else really going for him. Reading up or knowing references can enhance ones enjoyment of a character, but it shouldn't be the foundation for that character, and they should be entertaining beyond just being a reference. Thats pretty much the entire point of universe 2, which is just a big magical girls reference, however, they bothered to try and make them engaging beyond just being a reference. Thats something that I can't say about anime Jiren.

I don't care if you think your smarter than me, or if you have more life experiences than me, thats irrelevant to me pointing out that just because something is a reference, doesn't add automatic likeability, espicially if you have to look up the reference to enjoy the character.

[Xeogran]

Jiren isn't a character, he is a plot device. He is there so that Toriyama's favorite cat doesn't get hurt.

Um...what?

He basically means that Goku can eventually showcase his >GoD power against Jiren instead of Beerus.

[Hawk9211]

grey aliens dont have a personality. in that case jiren anime version is the right one. grey aliens are bio robots and psychopaths. they are unable to feel emotions and thus they have no emotions whatsoever. jiren is a grey alien. toei took the inspiration from abductees reports of grey aliens. this was the intention. this is not crazy at all. manga version of jiren is too much like toppo. hes a toppo clone. anime version is way better. arrogent. emotionless and psychotic. this is jiren and this is how he supposed to be. thats what makes him interesting. and you are smug as hell. call me stupid i dont care. i know I'm smarter then you. i know a lot more about life then you. instead of calling me stupid go do your reasarch about grey aliens and then you will understand that its actually you who said the stupidiest thing ever not me. jiren is on point. he is way more interesting in the anime because hes diffrent then all the others.

I'll start off with the easy stuff, how the hell is Jiren in the manga anything like Toppo outside of the fact he believes in justice? He has a completely different personality, and its been made clear through Jirens actions and reactions to things that him and Toppo have completely different views of justice, which is really the only thing that they have in common, as well as entirely different core motivations. With all this said, how is Jiren a Toppo clone, how is a character that is completely different from another on a fundamental level, the same character, because according to you, they are.

I'll start off by repeating what I said previously, it doesn't matter that Jiren in his anime counter-part is more "realistic" or closer to his reference point than his manga counter-part. That doesn't make him a better character. Whats makes one interpretation of a character better than another are thing like how well fleshed out they are. I say the manga version of Jiren is better than his anime counter-part because he is a far more fleshed out character than his anime counter part. What I mean by this, is that the manga version Jiren has an established personality, principles, motivations and mystery behind him, which are all completely lacking in his anime counter-part.

The anime version of Jiren has been described by many as the stock stoic big bad, and thus far, the show has given us no indication that his anything besides that. His personality is bland, uninspired and unengaging for many, and his character has zero depth to it besides the fact his really strong. The anime version of Jiren has no established principles to make him interesting, he has no clear established motivation as of yet, and thus he lacks the mystery that his manga counter-part is established to have early on. The lacks of all these things makes the anime version of Jiren come off husk of his manga self. It doesn't matter if the anime version is "how his supposed to be" if the manga version actually bothers do more with the character.

Also, your description of anime Jiren isn't completely accurate, you describe him as being "arrogent. emotionless and psychotic." Though I definitely agree with you that his arrogant, describing him as psychotic or as a psychopath shows a complete lack of understanding of what psychopaths actually are, I recommend watching the police interview with geniune real life psychopath Paul Bernardo to give you an idea how psychopaths actually act. You could say Freeza is psychopath, you could say Dio Brando from JBA is a psychopath, Jiren isn't a remotely psychotic to say the least. If he was, then why the hell did he turn down the opportunity to literally become a God in both adaptations of his character?

Finally, I shouldn't need to read up on obscure conspiracy theories to fully enjoy Jirens character. The fact that you do need to read up on those conspiracies is maybe an indication that Jiren isn't a good character, since he doesn't have anything else really going for him. Reading up or knowing references can enhance ones enjoyment of a character, but it shouldn't be the foundation for that character, and they should be entertaining beyond just being a reference. Thats pretty much the entire point of universe 2, which is just a big magical girls reference, however, they bothered to try and make them engaging beyond just being a reference. Thats something that I can't say about anime Jiren.

I don't care if you think your smarter than me, or if you have more life experiences than me, thats irrelevant to me pointing out that just because something is a reference, doesn't add automatic likeability, espicially if you have to look up the preference to enjoy the character.

[spoiler]Sorry for double post but I can't edit the previous one.@Jazzmazz well made post However I would like to add that that grey aliens have interpretations like all other things.The things found common in most interpretations are weird eyes and mental powers.I remember a grey alien in a film PaulI think was it's name in which the grey Alien had had a more cheerful personality than humans so even the origins argument falls flat.[/spoiler]

[DiegoBrando]

Worst character in dragonball. Stoic is fine, but stoic doesn't mean he can't show emotion or reason. It also helps if such a character looks badass. Jiren's design is just boring and has nothing going for him. Good stoic characters = Kenshiro, Jotaro. Jiren isn't even a character. He's a plot device. Pushing him as the main rival of our protagonist is laughable.

[dbs fanboy]

I think the general consensus is that he's cool because he's strong, but lacks any kind of personality. While manga Jiren stomps the anime version.

[Artorias]

At this point, Jiren is quite possibly the single worst antagonist of any arc in Dragon Ball. If you want your protagonist to be memorable, you either have to A) give them a compelling personality or a sympathetic backstory, or B) show them pulling off intimidating and impressive feats with fun and cool movesets. Ideally, you would want them to have both aspects, but having at least one goes a long way.

Jiren has NONE of this. He's not even a character. He's essentially a blank slate that exists solely to be a wall that Goku must overcome. He's the equivalent of an orange cone in the middle of a race course that needs to be avoided or ran over. He exists to be an amorphous big bad thing to stand in the way of our heroes. And what's worse, he doesn't even have the cool factor that Hit had. He doesn't do...ANYTHING. You can't have everyone else talk about how badass and sick and totally cool your antagonist is without SHOWING him perform these cool actions that people keep mentioning. ONE FIGHT is not impressive in the slightest, especially a fight where he doesn't demonstrate any sort of interesting techniques or powers. He's literally just a guy that grunts really loud and punches really hard. That's it. Again, at least Hit had the coolness factor of the time-skip, in addition to his little respectful relationship with Goku.

I'm very relieved that the fanbase at large seems to have realized this, and isn't falling for it. Thank god. I shutter to think what it would've been like if people were reacting to Jiren that same way they reacted to say...Black.

[GodKaio-Ken]

At this point, Jiren is quite possibly the single worst antagonist of any arc in Dragon Ball. If you want your protagonist to be memorable, you either have to A) give them a compelling personality or a sympathetic backstory, or B) show them pulling off intimidating and impressive feats with fun and cool movesets. Ideally, you would want them to have both aspects, but having at least one goes a long way.

Jiren has NONE of this. He's not even a character. He's essentially a blank slate that exists solely to be a wall that Goku must overcome. He's the equivalent of an orange cone in the middle of a race course that needs to be avoided or ran over. He exists to be an amorphous big bad thing to stand in the way of our heroes. And what's worse, he doesn't even have the cool factor that Hit had. He doesn't do...ANYTHING. You can't have everyone else talk about how badass and sick and totally cool your antagonist is without SHOWING him perform these cool actions that people keep mentioning. ONE FIGHT is not impressive in the slightest, especially a fight where he doesn't demonstrate any sort of interesting techniques or powers. He's literally just a guy that grunts really loud and punches really hard. That's it. Again, at least Hit had the coolness factor of the time-skip, in addition to his little respectful relationship with Goku.

I'm very relieved that the fanbase at large seems to have realized this, and isn't falling for it. Thank god. I shutter to think what it would've been like if people were reacting to Jiren that same way they reacted to say...Black.

You're assuming Jiren has nothing when his character hasn't even been fleshed out yet. I agree that he hasn't done much as of yet, but that doesn't mean he won't at some point this arc.

[Artorias]

At this point, Jiren is quite possibly the single worst antagonist of any arc in Dragon Ball. If you want your protagonist to be memorable, you either have to A) give them a compelling personality or a sympathetic backstory, or B) show them pulling off intimidating and impressive feats with fun and cool movesets. Ideally, you would want them to have both aspects, but having at least one goes a long way.

Jiren has NONE of this. He's not even a character. He's essentially a blank slate that exists solely to be a wall that Goku must overcome. He's the equivalent of an orange cone in the middle of a race course that needs to be avoided or ran over. He exists to be an amorphous big bad thing to stand in the way of our heroes. And what's worse, he doesn't even have the cool factor that Hit had. He doesn't do...ANYTHING. You can't have everyone else talk about how badass and sick and totally cool your antagonist is without SHOWING him perform these cool actions that people keep mentioning. ONE FIGHT is not impressive in the slightest, especially a fight where he doesn't demonstrate any sort of interesting techniques or powers. He's literally just a guy that grunts really loud and punches really hard. That's it. Again, at least Hit had the coolness factor of the time-skip, in addition to his little respectful relationship with Goku.

I'm very relieved that the fanbase at large seems to have realized this, and isn't falling for it. Thank god. I shutter to think what it would've been like if people were reacting to Jiren that same way they reacted to say...Black.

You're assuming Jiren has nothing when his character hasn't even been fleshed out yet. I agree that he hasn't done much as of yet, but that doesn't mean he won't at some point this arc.

Dude...the arc is nearly OVER. The odds that they're going to flesh him out are extremely unlikely at this point, and even if they did, it's too late. You can't dump a bunch of development on us at the VERY end and expect us to care. They should've done that from the very beginning.

[GodKaio-Ken]

At this point, Jiren is quite possibly the single worst antagonist of any arc in Dragon Ball. If you want your protagonist to be memorable, you either have to A) give them a compelling personality or a sympathetic backstory, or B) show them pulling off intimidating and impressive feats with fun and cool movesets. Ideally, you would want them to have both aspects, but having at least one goes a long way.

Jiren has NONE of this. He's not even a character. He's essentially a blank slate that exists solely to be a wall that Goku must overcome. He's the equivalent of an orange cone in the middle of a race course that needs to be avoided or ran over. He exists to be an amorphous big bad thing to stand in the way of our heroes. And what's worse, he doesn't even have the cool factor that Hit had. He doesn't do...ANYTHING. You can't have everyone else talk about how badass and sick and totally cool your antagonist is without SHOWING him perform these cool actions that people keep mentioning. ONE FIGHT is not impressive in the slightest, especially a fight where he doesn't demonstrate any sort of interesting techniques or powers. He's literally just a guy that grunts really loud and punches really hard. That's it. Again, at least Hit had the coolness factor of the time-skip, in addition to his little respectful relationship with Goku.

I'm very relieved that the fanbase at large seems to have realized this, and isn't falling for it. Thank god. I shutter to think what it would've been like if people were reacting to Jiren that same way they reacted to say...Black.

You're assuming Jiren has nothing when his character hasn't even been fleshed out yet. I agree that he hasn't done much as of yet, but that doesn't mean he won't at some point this arc.

Dude...the arc is nearly OVER. The odds that they're going to flesh him out are extremely unlikely at this point, and even if they did, it's too late. You can't dump a bunch of development on us at the VERY end and expect us to care. They should've done that from the very beginning.

Honestly I don't expect them to because they've barely fleshed out Hit and fans actually like him.

I'm just saying if the last few episodes are focused around Goku vs Jiren we will end up with at least some dialogue and a few cool moves which is about what Hit got in U6 Arc.

[precita]

I highly doubt Jiren will never appear again after the TOP ends.

[Lord Frieza]

As an threat to be overcome Jiren is probably the most intimidating. He's just so insanely powerful and so...unresponsive even when fighting that I will honestly say he's a fighters worst nightmare. A flawless, all powerful titan with no weaknesses.

But despite my admitted favouritism for him because of that, his design, his fighting style and the fact he's got the best dame fight in all of Super under his belt as far as I'm concerned ..... That kind of enemy dose not make for a compelling threat in terms of character. While we do get hints of what could be characterization in the few words he's spoken, their never expanded upon and are rather shut away as soon as they peep through the crack. This could be worked round if his we spent more time with him and saw him interacting with other characters more often because you don't need to speak words as long do something even if it subtle as sometimes actions speak louder then words. But Jiren has not even been given that in the anime, he just stands there like the worlds most roided out statue. So if Toei are saving up his character for then end of the ToP their going to have to really pull out all the stops in these last few episodes to really make Jiren come to life as a character.

Manga Jiren is pretty awesome and I don't mind that he has a Superman vib since that's pretty much what I thought of Jiren being like anyway.