What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?

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What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?

Post by JazzMazz » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:49 am

I can understand peoples problems about Goku getting Super Sayain God in the anime giving Goku another unnecessary transformation in the anime that further complicates how Goku fights, but other than that, what are peoples problems with Goku just being able to use the form?

Though they established in BoG that the power had fused with Goku's body, they also make it appear that Goku can only tap truly power of Super Saiyan God when under extreme duress, as per him surprising Beerus with that final punch.

After that, he learned to re-tap into god Ki and mastered Super Saiyan Blue, which was basically the Super Saiyan version of Super Saiyan God.

The next time we see Super Saiyan God is roughly 91 episodes after it disappeared. Beerus and Whis describe how God is an effective transformation, but the explanation for why Goku is able to use the form again, as per Goku's line is because "I ain't helping you. Seeing them gang up on you like that, my body starts itching." This is expanded upon by the narrator of 105, who elaborates that "The Universe 11 team's unbelievable attacks exploded on the fighting stage. Seeing that lit a fire in Goku's spirit."
So basically, it was the "re-awakening of the spirit of the Super Saiyan God", with his new mastery of God Ki that allowed him to re-achieve the form.

With all this said, what are your problems with Goku re-attaining the form in the anime?

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Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?

Post by PsionicWarrior » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:24 am

I personally don't have any problem with it, IIRC it was also said Blue drains a lot of stamina so if it's the best choice depending on the situation I'm fine with that. Plus I like how it looks.

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Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?

Post by Saturnine » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:39 am

The problem is that guys like SethTheProgrammer think that he's got the full power of SSj God in base now, and yet going SSj God itself multiplies it by thousands of times again, that's the problem.

Seriouosly though - that's something that was pretty inevitable, considering that BoG and RoF were not written with a future movie (1) and a future serialized series (2) in mind, so while Saiyan Beyond God could have worked in a movie, it was better and more interesting (not to mention profitable) for a long-running series to get back to regular SSj forms.

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Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:29 am

I'd say people's problem with its reintroduction, at least around these parts, is the fact that it occurred so late into the anime's run.

Toyotaro had reintroduced the form as early as Hit's fight with Goku in the tournament between Universes 6 and 7 in the manga. But the anime has gone on for its entire duration up until the Tournament of Power, without as much of a hint as to why it's back.

I often defend the anime compared to other people, but even I'll admit that it sometimes fails to provide a semblance of an explanation where one is required. SSG is just one of those times.

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Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:58 am

It's all really to do with how strong the story set out for the major antagonist to be for each major arc after the events for Battle Of Gods. All of the major opponents/antagonist that Goku faced after Battle Of Gods in the anime were stronger than Super Saiyan God (Freeza, Hit, Goku Black, Zamasu and Jiren), so in those cases, having the reintroduction of Super Saiyan God would have been redundant.

The manga on the other hand, has characters like Hit, Goku Black and Zamasu weaker than Super Saiyan God, making the inclusion of the form more natural to that story.

Goku's situation with Dyspo was basically Goku thinking Super Saiyan God would be enough, as supposed to any other form at that time. Of course, when Goku sees Super Saiyan God isn't enough to get the job done, he switches to Super Saiyan Blue momentarily to counterattack Dyspo's speed.

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Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?

Post by MisteryOne » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:17 am

Simple. People created headcanons to try to justify the borderline and stupid "power scale" displayed in the anime, by the creation of Saiyan Beyond God, which wasn't even a thing in Heroes. Super Saiyan God returning means the two base thing never existed, so people can't justify the inconsistences and they get annoyed.

Thag being said, there were a hell lot of other situations where they could have reintroduced the form better, instead of recycling a concept from the manga in a lame and way worse way. It's specially dumb how Goku spammed Blue during FT arc and during the recruitment episodes for no reason. The usage of the form in the manga was handled way better and in a more natural way (even if it was somehow forced against Future Zamasu round 2)
Last edited by MisteryOne on Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
English is not my first language. Please excuse my gramatical mistakes.

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Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?

Post by MisteryOne » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:18 am

Lord Beerus wrote:It's all really to do with how strong the story set out for the major antagonist to be for each major arc after the events for Battle Of Gods. All of the major opponents/antagonist that Goku faced after Battle Of Gods in the anime were stronger than Super Saiyan God (Freeza, Hit, Goku Black, Zamasu and Jiren), so in those cases, having the reintroduction of Super Saiyan God would have been redundant.

The manga on the other hand, has characters like Hit, Goku Black and Zamasu weaker than Super Saiyan God, making the inclusion of the form more natural to that story.

Goku's situation with Dyspo was basically Goku thinking Super Saiyan God would be enough, as supposed to any other form at that time. Of course, when Goku sees Super Saiyan God isn't enough to get the job done, he switches to Super Saiyan Blue momentarily to counterattack Dyspo's speed.
Goku Black wasn't weaker than Super Saiyan God, and Zamasu was not even at SS3 level.
English is not my first language. Please excuse my gramatical mistakes.

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Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:28 am

MisteryOne wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:It's all really to do with how strong the story set out for the major antagonist to be for each major arc after the events for Battle Of Gods. All of the major opponents/antagonist that Goku faced after Battle Of Gods in the anime were stronger than Super Saiyan God (Freeza, Hit, Goku Black, Zamasu and Jiren), so in those cases, having the reintroduction of Super Saiyan God would have been redundant.

The manga on the other hand, has characters like Hit, Goku Black and Zamasu weaker than Super Saiyan God, making the inclusion of the form more natural to that story.

Goku's situation with Dyspo was basically Goku thinking Super Saiyan God would be enough, as supposed to any other form at that time. Of course, when Goku sees Super Saiyan God isn't enough to get the job done, he switches to Super Saiyan Blue momentarily to counterattack Dyspo's speed.
Goku Black wasn't weaker than Super Saiyan God, and Zamasu was not even at SS3 level.
Before he obtain Super Saiyan Rose, he was. In the anime, his base form became stronger than Super Saiyan Blue. While in the manga, as a Super Saiyan/Super Saiyan 2, he was weaker than Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta before he got another Zenkai. Zamasu was Super Saiyan Blue tier in the anime, while in the manga, Goku stated Future Trunks could have handled him.

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Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?

Post by Draconic » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:33 am

It used to be my favorite form because of how unique it was and that it was a one-time thing meant to introduce Goku to the realm of the Gods. After Blue was introduced and with it the personal way to reach that level of power, God served it's purpose and it's mystique was still kept. Having it be just another one of Goku's forms, holding no real benefits to use above Blue, that he can pop on and off cheapens everything that made me like it.

The great design, the new way to unlock it, all worked in the context of the form being a spin on the head of all the over the top bullshit that enveloped the series in it's later years. That whole thing is dead and buried now.

Bringing it back misses the point of it entirely and it's stupid.
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Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?

Post by MR.Mark » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:37 am

This again boils down to me wishing Toriyama just scrapped using other SSJ forms once God was introduced like he originally intended to do in BOG. Here's hoping Ultra Instinct can press a reset button of sorts and give a fresh start in terms of levels of strength.

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Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?

Post by BlueVegerot » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:07 am

I love the form so i have no issue with it coming back but the anime botched the whole thing by having the "goku made ssg his own" and then RoF where his base form made every z fighter look like an ant outside of Vegeta. Then you have the following arcs where we never see ssg and in this arc until episode 104, goku would spam ssb vs everyone and then out of nowhere uses ssg vs dyspo. Think a lot of people were confused by the line from BoG and the fact that it showed up out of nowhere and beerus/whis acted like he'd been using it for a while

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Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?

Post by BWri » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:32 pm

MR.Mark wrote:This again boils down to me wishing Toriyama just scrapped using other SSJ forms once God was introduced like he originally intended to do in BOG. Here's hoping Ultra Instinct can press a reset button of sorts and give a fresh start in terms of levels of strength.
I keep hoping for this, but now I'm not going to hold my breath. Super would have been much less messy if they'd just gone with base - SSG - SSB as the relevant transformations and scrapped the others almost entirely. I'm over it now though. At least the previous SSJ forms kinda help us to scale the other characters.

To answer the OP's question, it's because it feels like a retcon. If Goku had SSG then why did he spam SSB in the recruitment arc especially if SSB is said to drain one's stamina? And I just don't see him reawakening the form in the tournament. He either had it this whole time or didn't have it and pulled it out of his ass at the last minute in the anime. There was plenty of time in that 90+ episode gap to show him using it, but Toei simply dropped the ball on it. I'd rather not see it in the anime due to how they've misrepresented the power scale, making Goku's base form already ridiculous.
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Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?

Post by JazzMazz » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:02 am

I know a lot of people have commented on how its return has kind of "de-mystified" the form, but this leads to another question. Do you think Blue's treatment in the anime, which is a form established to be more potent than God, adversely effects Super Saiyan Gods mystique as a form through the trivialization of its more powerful counter-part?

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Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?

Post by Hawk9211 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:13 am

The only problem I have is absorbing ssg ibto base.It lead to so many head scratching issues.
Why power levels are important?
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Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?

Post by OLKv3 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:46 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
MisteryOne wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:It's all really to do with how strong the story set out for the major antagonist to be for each major arc after the events for Battle Of Gods. All of the major opponents/antagonist that Goku faced after Battle Of Gods in the anime were stronger than Super Saiyan God (Freeza, Hit, Goku Black, Zamasu and Jiren), so in those cases, having the reintroduction of Super Saiyan God would have been redundant.

The manga on the other hand, has characters like Hit, Goku Black and Zamasu weaker than Super Saiyan God, making the inclusion of the form more natural to that story.

Goku's situation with Dyspo was basically Goku thinking Super Saiyan God would be enough, as supposed to any other form at that time. Of course, when Goku sees Super Saiyan God isn't enough to get the job done, he switches to Super Saiyan Blue momentarily to counterattack Dyspo's speed.
Goku Black wasn't weaker than Super Saiyan God, and Zamasu was not even at SS3 level.
Before he obtain Super Saiyan Rose, he was. In the anime, his base form became stronger than Super Saiyan Blue. While in the manga, as a Super Saiyan/Super Saiyan 2, he was weaker than Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta before he got another Zenkai. Zamasu was Super Saiyan Blue tier in the anime, while in the manga, Goku stated Future Trunks could have handled him.
He most definitely was not. SS2 Trunks handled him just fine. And SSB Goku treated him like an annoying fly. Zamasu fighting on par with SSB Goku for that quick scuffle is just Toei ignoring logic for cool moments, like SS2 Trunks going toe to toe with Rose Black.

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Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?

Post by Meshack » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:46 am

Saturnine wrote:The problem is that guys like SethTheProgrammer think that he's got the full power of SSj God in base now, and yet going SSj God itself multiplies it by thousands of times again, that's the problem.

Seriouosly though - that's something that was pretty inevitable, considering that BoG and RoF were not written with a future movie (1) and a future serialized series (2) in mind, so while Saiyan Beyond God could have worked in a movie, it was better and more interesting (not to mention profitable) for a long-running series to get back to regular SSj forms.
Even though a continuation wasn’t considered from the movies, the Hakaishin Beerus Arc doesn’t really change what happened with Super Saiyan God in the anime for Super and Battle of Gods. Toriyama said after absorbing the power, he didn’t need to transform but he didn’t say he couldn’t

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Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?

Post by Meshack » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:48 am

BWri wrote:
MR.Mark wrote:This again boils down to me wishing Toriyama just scrapped using other SSJ forms once God was introduced like he originally intended to do in BOG. Here's hoping Ultra Instinct can press a reset button of sorts and give a fresh start in terms of levels of strength.
I keep hoping for this, but now I'm not going to hold my breath. Super would have been much less messy if they'd just gone with base - SSG - SSB as the relevant transformations and scrapped the others almost entirely. I'm over it now though. At least the previous SSJ forms kinda help us to scale the other characters.

To answer the OP's question, it's because it feels like a retcon. If Goku had SSG then why did he spam SSB in the recruitment arc especially if SSB is said to drain one's stamina? And I just don't see him reawakening the form in the tournament. He either had it this whole time or didn't have it and pulled it out of his ass at the last minute in the anime. There was plenty of time in that 90+ episode gap to show him using it, but Toei simply dropped the ball on it. I'd rather not see it in the anime due to how they've misrepresented the power scale, making Goku's base form already ridiculous.
Gokuh “spammed SSB” because Toei is stupid. Duh.

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Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?

Post by Meshack » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:50 am

MR.Mark wrote:This again boils down to me wishing Toriyama just scrapped using other SSJ forms once God was introduced like he originally intended to do in BOG. Here's hoping Ultra Instinct can press a reset button of sorts and give a fresh start in terms of levels of strength.
He didn’t originally intend to do that. In the same movie, Gokuh transformed into Super Saiyan after absorbing the God power. In an interview, he clearly states that Gokuh using Super Saiyan would be better than using any other form because they’re power ups.

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Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?

Post by MR.Mark » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:12 am

Well other than SSJ1 I'm fairly certain Toriyama said Goku would most likely not need 2-3 anymore atleast.

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Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:17 am

I said it before, but I'll say it again:

I think it's mostly the timing. Unlike regular SS, nobody expected SSG to return once SSB was introduced. But then, Toyotaro did it anyways, and thus seeded an expectation that wasn't fulfilled in the anime until long after we'd gotten so used to it not returning.

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