It was more than just that scuffle in Episode 57 (Which Zamasu won, for the record). Nearly every time Zamasu tackled the likes of SSJB Goku or Vegeta of SSJI Future Trunks, he held his own or kicked their assess with or without Goku Black helping.OLKv3 wrote:He most definitely was not. SS2 Trunks handled him just fine. And SSB Goku treated him like an annoying fly. Zamasu fighting on par with SSB Goku for that quick scuffle is just Toei ignoring logic for cool moments, like SS2 Trunks going toe to toe with Rose Black.Lord Beerus wrote:Before he obtain Super Saiyan Rose, he was. In the anime, his base form became stronger than Super Saiyan Blue. While in the manga, as a Super Saiyan/Super Saiyan 2, he was weaker than Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta before he got another Zenkai. Zamasu was Super Saiyan Blue tier in the anime, while in the manga, Goku stated Future Trunks could have handled him.MisteryOne wrote: Goku Black wasn't weaker than Super Saiyan God, and Zamasu was not even at SS3 level.
What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?
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Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?
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Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?
Um, not really. Pretty much every encounter he fights Goku, Vegeta and even Trunks in a square fight, he gets his ass handed to him badly. The only time his really able to get an upper hand is when he catches his opponent off guard or when he has Black there to back him up. It was mainly his immortality that made him a threat to any of our protagonists.Lord Beerus wrote:It was more than just that scuffle in Episode 57 (Which Zamasu won, for the record). Nearly every time Zamasu tackled the likes of SSJB Goku or Vegeta of SSJI Future Trunks, he held his own or kicked their assess with or without Goku Black helping.OLKv3 wrote:He most definitely was not. SS2 Trunks handled him just fine. And SSB Goku treated him like an annoying fly. Zamasu fighting on par with SSB Goku for that quick scuffle is just Toei ignoring logic for cool moments, like SS2 Trunks going toe to toe with Rose Black.Lord Beerus wrote: Before he obtain Super Saiyan Rose, he was. In the anime, his base form became stronger than Super Saiyan Blue. While in the manga, as a Super Saiyan/Super Saiyan 2, he was weaker than Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta before he got another Zenkai. Zamasu was Super Saiyan Blue tier in the anime, while in the manga, Goku stated Future Trunks could have handled him.
Him being not much outside of his immortality, is reinforced multiple times throughout their encounters and battles with Zamasu.
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Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?
Honestly, I feel that the anime would've been fine if they hadn't brought back SSG. They didn't do so for every other instance that Toyotaro utilized the form in his manga adaptation, and I liked how it set itself apart like that.
Think about it: SSG's role can be and has been fulfilled by the other forms and/or ideas.
When Goku fought Hit, he simply used his base form to test the waters before going full on SSB. While testing Future Trunks, Goku used the superior-in-every-way-beyond-stamina SS3 form against F. Trunks's SS2 form. Against Goku Black, Vegeta simply trained himself with rage and 6 months of time in the Room of Spirit & Time.
And in the Tournament of Power, Goku went from SS to SSB against Toppo. Against Dyspo, regular SS would've accomplished the exact same purpose that SSG served. Against Jiren, SS3 could've been used as a measure, or simply go from SS to SS2 to SSB. Against Kale, Caulifla, and Kefla, SS3 would've been fine as a measuring stick, especially considering how Caulifla was aiming to achieve the form.
In pretty much every instance, SSG could've and was replaced by another form, and the narrative remained mostly the same in terms of structure and purpose.
Think about it: SSG's role can be and has been fulfilled by the other forms and/or ideas.
When Goku fought Hit, he simply used his base form to test the waters before going full on SSB. While testing Future Trunks, Goku used the superior-in-every-way-beyond-stamina SS3 form against F. Trunks's SS2 form. Against Goku Black, Vegeta simply trained himself with rage and 6 months of time in the Room of Spirit & Time.
And in the Tournament of Power, Goku went from SS to SSB against Toppo. Against Dyspo, regular SS would've accomplished the exact same purpose that SSG served. Against Jiren, SS3 could've been used as a measure, or simply go from SS to SS2 to SSB. Against Kale, Caulifla, and Kefla, SS3 would've been fine as a measuring stick, especially considering how Caulifla was aiming to achieve the form.
In pretty much every instance, SSG could've and was replaced by another form, and the narrative remained mostly the same in terms of structure and purpose.
Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?
For me that isn't the case. As I mentioned, God is the introduction to the realm of the Gods. Once there, it's bound that more powerful enemies and rivals show up and new ways to use the God Ki are discovered (ala Kaioken or the Full Powered version) all building on the foundation of God. Kinda how 3 builds on the regular SSJ. It's the fact that God itself isn't shown as anything special that demystifies it.JazzMazz wrote:I know a lot of people have commented on how its return has kind of "de-mystified" the form, but this leads to another question. Do you think Blue's treatment in the anime, which is a form established to be more potent than God, adversely effects Super Saiyan Gods mystique as a form through the trivialization of its more powerful counter-part?
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Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?
This. There's a group of fans out there that just want Goku and Co. to be as strong as possible, that way they can say "My favorite fictional character is stronger than your favorite fictional character." The idea that Goku could stack his regular SSJ forms on top of Saiyan Beyond God and add SSJ Blue on top of that really helped those fans sell that argument. Goku going SSJ God in the anime is the last nail in the coffin for the two base theory because it makes no sense for him to stack SSJ God on top of SSJ God. Honestly, Goku doesn't need a God base because that would create more chaos then we already have with power levels. I remember when people were saying that Cabba had God tier strength because he matched Vegeta in base. Power inflating of this magnitude are for those who desperately want to say "Goku beats Superman!"Saturnine wrote:The problem is that guys like SethTheProgrammer think that he's got the full power of SSj God in base now, and yet going SSj God itself multiplies it by thousands of times again, that's the problem.
Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?
More power is always better than less power in a fight. Not transforming is only worth it compared to transforming if it lets you have the same degree of power you would have when transformed. The Super Saiyan form that Toriyama was referring to turned out to be SSj Blue afterwards.Meshack wrote:He didn’t originally intend to do that. In the same movie, Gokuh transformed into Super Saiyan after absorbing the God power. In an interview, he clearly states that Gokuh using Super Saiyan would be better than using any other form because they’re power ups.MR.Mark wrote:This again boils down to me wishing Toriyama just scrapped using other SSJ forms once God was introduced like he originally intended to do in BOG. Here's hoping Ultra Instinct can press a reset button of sorts and give a fresh start in terms of levels of strength.
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Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?
I've watched the Future Trunks arc and that not really the case:JazzMazz wrote:Um, not really. Pretty much every encounter he fights Goku, Vegeta and even Trunks in a square fight, he gets his ass handed to him badly. The only time his really able to get an upper hand is when he catches his opponent off guard or when he has Black there to back him up. It was mainly his immortality that made him a threat to any of our protagonists.Lord Beerus wrote:It was more than just that scuffle in Episode 57 (Which Zamasu won, for the record). Nearly every time Zamasu tackled the likes of SSJB Goku or Vegeta of SSJI Future Trunks, he held his own or kicked their assess with or without Goku Black helping.OLKv3 wrote: He most definitely was not. SS2 Trunks handled him just fine. And SSB Goku treated him like an annoying fly. Zamasu fighting on par with SSB Goku for that quick scuffle is just Toei ignoring logic for cool moments, like SS2 Trunks going toe to toe with Rose Black.
Him being not much outside of his immortality, is reinforced multiple times throughout their encounters and battles with Zamasu.
Episode 57 - Zamasu fights SSJB Goku one-on-one and beats him.
Episode 61 - Takes Goku down SSJB and has him on run and
Episode 62 - SSJB Vegeta was running away from him, after initially declaring that Zamasu would be his opponent.
Episode 63 - Fights SSJ Future Trunks and has him on the ropes. Caught off-guard by SSJB Goku.
Episode 64 - Caught off guard with a sucker-punch from SSJB Goku. Then clashes evenly with SSJB Goku when he fights him head on.
It must also be noted Future Trunks needed to be in his Super Saiyan Rage mode to have enough energy and stamina to seal Zamasu with the Mafuba. Which all but indicates that Zamasu was as powerful as version of Future Trunks that could fight evenly with Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black.
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Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?
He clearly did display that god base earlier in the anime though. Instances include: against Freeza, against Copy Vegeta and against Beerus/Monaka. Wouldn't say it's much of a two-base theory at this point, it's just a sloppily conducted shift from a base intended to be godly to a base not intended to be godly.TysonWine wrote:This. There's a group of fans out there that just want Goku and Co. to be as strong as possible, that way they can say "My favorite fictional character is stronger than your favorite fictional character." The idea that Goku could stack his regular SSJ forms on top of Saiyan Beyond God and add SSJ Blue on top of that really helped those fans sell that argument. Goku going SSJ God in the anime is the last nail in the coffin for the two base theory because it makes no sense for him to stack SSJ God on top of SSJ God. Honestly, Goku doesn't need a God base because that would create more chaos then we already have with power levels. I remember when people were saying that Cabba had God tier strength because he matched Vegeta in base. Power inflating of this magnitude are for those who desperately want to say "Goku beats Superman!"Saturnine wrote:The problem is that guys like SethTheProgrammer think that he's got the full power of SSj God in base now, and yet going SSj God itself multiplies it by thousands of times again, that's the problem.
Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?
Toriyama was not talking about Blue. He wasn’t even thinking of Blue when Battle of Gods was released. He was specifically asked if Super Saiyan 4 was attainable in the future but Toriyama said Gokuh realized he should focus more on his normal state and Super Saiyn. You’re reaching.Saturnine wrote:More power is always better than less power in a fight. Not transforming is only worth it compared to transforming if it lets you have the same degree of power you would have when transformed. The Super Saiyan form that Toriyama was referring to turned out to be SSj Blue afterwards.Meshack wrote:He didn’t originally intend to do that. In the same movie, Gokuh transformed into Super Saiyan after absorbing the God power. In an interview, he clearly states that Gokuh using Super Saiyan would be better than using any other form because they’re power ups.MR.Mark wrote:This again boils down to me wishing Toriyama just scrapped using other SSJ forms once God was introduced like he originally intended to do in BOG. Here's hoping Ultra Instinct can press a reset button of sorts and give a fresh start in terms of levels of strength.
Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?
Yeah, his normal state is the godly base and the SSj state is SSj Blue. SSj Blue is just SSj after all. Or was explained to be it in the beginning.Meshack wrote:Toriyama was not talking about Blue. He wasn’t even thinking of Blue when Battle of Gods was released. He was specifically asked if Super Saiyan 4 was attainable in the future but Toriyama said Gokuh realized he should focus more on his normal state and Super Saiyn. You’re reaching.Saturnine wrote:More power is always better than less power in a fight. Not transforming is only worth it compared to transforming if it lets you have the same degree of power you would have when transformed. The Super Saiyan form that Toriyama was referring to turned out to be SSj Blue afterwards.Meshack wrote: He didn’t originally intend to do that. In the same movie, Gokuh transformed into Super Saiyan after absorbing the God power. In an interview, he clearly states that Gokuh using Super Saiyan would be better than using any other form because they’re power ups.
Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?
Only because of his immortality. Future Zamasu was pretty weak on his own.Lord Beerus wrote: It was more than just that scuffle in Episode 57 (Which Zamasu won, for the record). Nearly every time Zamasu tackled the likes of SSJB Goku or Vegeta of SSJI Future Trunks, he held his own or kicked their assess with or without Goku Black helping.
Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?
That was never said to be. Unless you have sources, you’re entirely wrong.Saturnine wrote:Yeah, his normal state is the godly base and the SSj state is SSj Blue. SSj Blue is just SSj after all. Or was explained to be it in the beginning.Meshack wrote:Toriyama was not talking about Blue. He wasn’t even thinking of Blue when Battle of Gods was released. He was specifically asked if Super Saiyan 4 was attainable in the future but Toriyama said Gokuh realized he should focus more on his normal state and Super Saiyn. You’re reaching.Saturnine wrote:
More power is always better than less power in a fight. Not transforming is only worth it compared to transforming if it lets you have the same degree of power you would have when transformed. The Super Saiyan form that Toriyama was referring to turned out to be SSj Blue afterwards.
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Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?
I don't know why people want to downplay Zamasu's strength. He fought SSJB Goku one-on-one and more than held his own. That only puts him among the top tier characters in the strength department in that arc.Dbzfan94 wrote:Only because of his immortality. Future Zamasu was pretty weak on his own.Lord Beerus wrote: It was more than just that scuffle in Episode 57 (Which Zamasu won, for the record). Nearly every time Zamasu tackled the likes of SSJB Goku or Vegeta of SSJI Future Trunks, he held his own or kicked their assess with or without Goku Black helping.
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Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?
God and Blue should have never happened. It doesn't make sense that Goku is millions of times stronger than the Buu saga yet still has a tough time taking down normal opponents. Let alone Zamasu's randomly fluxating power level.
Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?
Look, what does it matter what Toriyama said in regards to BoG the movie, if everything got changed up as early as the next movie, not to mentioned the anime series? Maybe just when BoG came out, it was Toriyama's vision that base and SSj would be enough for Goku going forward, seeing as how he had absorbed the god ki. What we were shown in RoF was nothing but a natural development of that concept. Had Toriyama not gone back on what he himself had intended, we'd still only have godly base and SSj Blue, and nothing more.Meshack wrote:That was never said to be. Unless you have sources, you’re entirely wrong.Saturnine wrote:Yeah, his normal state is the godly base and the SSj state is SSj Blue. SSj Blue is just SSj after all. Or was explained to be it in the beginning.Meshack wrote: Toriyama was not talking about Blue. He wasn’t even thinking of Blue when Battle of Gods was released. He was specifically asked if Super Saiyan 4 was attainable in the future but Toriyama said Gokuh realized he should focus more on his normal state and Super Saiyn. You’re reaching.
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Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?
No, I don't think Zamasu is exactly Blue Tier in terms of strength and I'll explain why.Lord Beerus wrote:I've watched the Future Trunks arc and that not really the case:JazzMazz wrote:Um, not really. Pretty much every encounter he fights Goku, Vegeta and even Trunks in a square fight, he gets his ass handed to him badly. The only time his really able to get an upper hand is when he catches his opponent off guard or when he has Black there to back him up. It was mainly his immortality that made him a threat to any of our protagonists.Lord Beerus wrote: It was more than just that scuffle in Episode 57 (Which Zamasu won, for the record). Nearly every time Zamasu tackled the likes of SSJB Goku or Vegeta of SSJI Future Trunks, he held his own or kicked their assess with or without Goku Black helping.
Him being not much outside of his immortality, is reinforced multiple times throughout their encounters and battles with Zamasu.
Episode 57 - Zamasu fights SSJB Goku one-on-one and beats him.
Episode 61 - Takes Goku down SSJB and has him on run and
Episode 62 - SSJB Vegeta was running away from him, after initially declaring that Zamasu would be his opponent.
Episode 63 - Fights SSJ Future Trunks and has him on the ropes. Caught off-guard by SSJB Goku.
Episode 64 - Caught off guard with a sucker-punch from SSJB Goku. Then clashes evenly with SSJB Goku when he fights him head on.
It must also be noted Future Trunks needed to be in his Super Saiyan Rage mode to have enough energy and stamina to seal Zamasu with the Mafuba. Which all but indicates that Zamasu was as powerful as version of Future Trunks that could fight evenly with Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black.
The future is no slouch in terms of power, he can certainly hold his own and even break the guard of a Super Saiyan Blue level fighter using his raw power alone. However, his best feats are only really achieved when he synchronizes his attacks with Black or when they follow up from each other attacks.
However, his strength isn't what makes him a dangerous opponent, and helpful support for his far physically stronger partner.
What makes him so threatening as an opponent is that he is an immortal with infinite durability and stamina that can get up from any attack thrown at him. Thats what allows him to fight evenly with opponents that are more physically powerful than himself, he is literally impervious to injury while still being a skilled and capable fighter in his own right.
Without his immortality, do you honestly believe that Zamasu would have been capable of holding his own against Goku, Vegeta and Trunks in individual combat? Do you think he would have survived being stabbed and obliterated by Trunks in episode 57? Do you think he would have survived literally having his face blown off by Goku in 61, or being hit with everyones full power energy barrages all those different times? Do you think he would have gotten up so effortlessly from Goku's barrage in 63, where Goku, after all the stuff his seen Zamasu go through previously, still finds it necessary to note how Zamasu "really is immortal"?
I don't think his a complete weakling, I would say his slightly stronger than base Black in the anime and can hold his own against a Blue tier warrior, but outside of his immortality, infinite stamina, regernation and durability, I don't think he would be able to stand up to the Blue characters in a contest of raw power.
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Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?
I think it would be best to agree to disagree on this topic as I don't want this to needlessly spiral into a strength comparison debate in a thread like this.JazzMazz wrote:No, I don't think Zamasu is exactly Blue Tier in terms of strength and I'll explain why.Lord Beerus wrote:I've watched the Future Trunks arc and that not really the case:JazzMazz wrote: Um, not really. Pretty much every encounter he fights Goku, Vegeta and even Trunks in a square fight, he gets his ass handed to him badly. The only time his really able to get an upper hand is when he catches his opponent off guard or when he has Black there to back him up. It was mainly his immortality that made him a threat to any of our protagonists.
Him being not much outside of his immortality, is reinforced multiple times throughout their encounters and battles with Zamasu.
Episode 57 - Zamasu fights SSJB Goku one-on-one and beats him.
Episode 61 - Takes Goku down SSJB and has him on the run
Episode 62 - SSJB Vegeta was running away from him, after initially declaring that Zamasu would be his opponent.
Episode 63 - Fights SSJ Future Trunks and has him on the ropes. Caught off-guard by SSJB Goku.
Episode 64 - Caught off guard with a sucker-punch from SSJB Goku. Then clashes evenly with SSJB Goku when he fights him head on.
It must also be noted Future Trunks needed to be in his Super Saiyan Rage mode to have enough energy and stamina to seal Zamasu with the Mafuba. Which all but indicates that Zamasu was as powerful as version of Future Trunks that could fight evenly with Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black.
The future is no slouch in terms of power, he can certainly hold his own and even break the guard of a Super Saiyan Blue level fighter using his raw power alone. However, his best feats are only really achieved when he synchronizes his attacks with Black or when they follow up from each other attacks.
However, his strength isn't what makes him a dangerous opponent, and helpful support for his far physically stronger partner.
What makes him so threatening as an opponent is that he is an immortal with infinite durability and stamina that can get up from any attack thrown at him. Thats what allows him to fight evenly with opponents that are more physically powerful than himself, he is literally impervious to injury while still being a skilled and capable fighter in his own right.
Without his immortality, do you honestly believe that Zamasu would have been capable of holding his own against Goku, Vegeta and Trunks in individual combat? Do you think he would have survived being stabbed and obliterated by Trunks in episode 57? Do you think he would have survived literally having his face blown off by Goku in 61, or being hit with everyones full power energy barrages all those different times? Do you think he would have gotten up so effortlessly from Goku's barrage in 63, where Goku, after all the stuff his seen Zamasu go through previously, still finds it necessary to note how Zamasu "really is immortal"?
I don't think his a complete weakling, I would say his slightly stronger than base Black in the anime and can hold his own against a Blue tier warrior, but outside of his immortality, infinite stamina, regernation and durability, I don't think he would be able to stand up to the Blue characters in a contest of raw power.
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Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?
That is a good point that you bring up. God may be cool to see but isn't needed anymore in this point in Super.PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:Honestly, I feel that the anime would've been fine if they hadn't brought back SSG. They didn't do so for every other instance that Toyotaro utilized the form in his manga adaptation, and I liked how it set itself apart like that.
Think about it: SSG's role can be and has been fulfilled by the other forms and/or ideas.
When Goku fought Hit, he simply used his base form to test the waters before going full on SSB. While testing Future Trunks, Goku used the superior-in-every-way-beyond-stamina SS3 form against F. Trunks's SS2 form. Against Goku Black, Vegeta simply trained himself with rage and 6 months of time in the Room of Spirit & Time.
And in the Tournament of Power, Goku went from SS to SSB against Toppo. Against Dyspo, regular SS would've accomplished the exact same purpose that SSG served. Against Jiren, SS3 could've been used as a measure, or simply go from SS to SS2 to SSB. Against Kale, Caulifla, and Kefla, SS3 would've been fine as a measuring stick, especially considering how Caulifla was aiming to achieve the form.
In pretty much every instance, SSG could've and was replaced by another form, and the narrative remained mostly the same in terms of structure and purpose.
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Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?
Yeah, I agree, it is kind of off topic. Besides, we already have a thread for strength discussions.Lord Beerus wrote:I think it would be best to agree to disagree on this topic as I don't want this to needlessly spiral into a strength comparison debate in a thread like this.JazzMazz wrote:No, I don't think Zamasu is exactly Blue Tier in terms of strength and I'll explain why.Lord Beerus wrote: I've watched the Future Trunks arc and that not really the case:
Episode 57 - Zamasu fights SSJB Goku one-on-one and beats him.
Episode 61 - Takes Goku down SSJB and has him on the run
Episode 62 - SSJB Vegeta was running away from him, after initially declaring that Zamasu would be his opponent.
Episode 63 - Fights SSJ Future Trunks and has him on the ropes. Caught off-guard by SSJB Goku.
Episode 64 - Caught off guard with a sucker-punch from SSJB Goku. Then clashes evenly with SSJB Goku when he fights him head on.
It must also be noted Future Trunks needed to be in his Super Saiyan Rage mode to have enough energy and stamina to seal Zamasu with the Mafuba. Which all but indicates that Zamasu was as powerful as version of Future Trunks that could fight evenly with Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black.
The future is no slouch in terms of power, he can certainly hold his own and even break the guard of a Super Saiyan Blue level fighter using his raw power alone. However, his best feats are only really achieved when he synchronizes his attacks with Black or when they follow up from each other attacks.
However, his strength isn't what makes him a dangerous opponent, and helpful support for his far physically stronger partner.
What makes him so threatening as an opponent is that he is an immortal with infinite durability and stamina that can get up from any attack thrown at him. Thats what allows him to fight evenly with opponents that are more physically powerful than himself, he is literally impervious to injury while still being a skilled and capable fighter in his own right.
Without his immortality, do you honestly believe that Zamasu would have been capable of holding his own against Goku, Vegeta and Trunks in individual combat? Do you think he would have survived being stabbed and obliterated by Trunks in episode 57? Do you think he would have survived literally having his face blown off by Goku in 61, or being hit with everyones full power energy barrages all those different times? Do you think he would have gotten up so effortlessly from Goku's barrage in 63, where Goku, after all the stuff his seen Zamasu go through previously, still finds it necessary to note how Zamasu "really is immortal"?
I don't think his a complete weakling, I would say his slightly stronger than base Black in the anime and can hold his own against a Blue tier warrior, but outside of his immortality, infinite stamina, regernation and durability, I don't think he would be able to stand up to the Blue characters in a contest of raw power.
Re: What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?
Yeah, this is my problem with Goku having SSG in the anime. They clearly had other ideas when it came to displaying Goku's power, because if SSG had always existed then they had countless opportunities to display it. As is, it just feels like they're co-opting manga ideas into their own messy continuity.Saturnine wrote:He clearly did display that god base earlier in the anime though. Instances include: against Freeza, against Copy Vegeta and against Beerus/Monaka. Wouldn't say it's much of a two-base theory at this point, it's just a sloppily conducted shift from a base intended to be godly to a base not intended to be godly.TysonWine wrote:This. There's a group of fans out there that just want Goku and Co. to be as strong as possible, that way they can say "My favorite fictional character is stronger than your favorite fictional character." The idea that Goku could stack his regular SSJ forms on top of Saiyan Beyond God and add SSJ Blue on top of that really helped those fans sell that argument. Goku going SSJ God in the anime is the last nail in the coffin for the two base theory because it makes no sense for him to stack SSJ God on top of SSJ God. Honestly, Goku doesn't need a God base because that would create more chaos then we already have with power levels. I remember when people were saying that Cabba had God tier strength because he matched Vegeta in base. Power inflating of this magnitude are for those who desperately want to say "Goku beats Superman!"Saturnine wrote:The problem is that guys like SethTheProgrammer think that he's got the full power of SSj God in base now, and yet going SSj God itself multiplies it by thousands of times again, that's the problem.
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