Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by AnimeNation101 » Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:09 pm

Around how many chapters do you think the movie will be for the DBS Manga? I expect the T.o.P to be wrapped up by sometime in the 4th quarter of 2018. RoF had 3 chapters based of 93 minutes. Since they mentioned that Toriyama made a story that he saw as too short so then he expanded upon it and it became too long so they are working to put it all together and then they mentioned how Toriyama finds it easier to tell a story in 2 hours than in a long running tv show, i’ll Assume this movie will be about 2 hours.

While this is inaccurate, my guess would be that this movie would be about 4 manga chapters long. And, possibly, since he said so, after those chapters, he will continue the Super story with the anime moist likely starting up later in 2019. But if they want the manga to stay in front of the anime, either Toyotaro picks up the pace and it becomes weekly OR the anime becomes a seasonal anime that takes breaks.

And hopefully Toyotaro w/ Toriyama get their stuff together to push out better stories while Toei and its writers get their stuff together (perhaps via communicating with each other more or hiring one overseer) so that we have way less story and character inconsistencies.
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie. 8)

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:37 pm

AnimeNation101 wrote:Around how many chapters do you think the movie will be for the DBS Manga? I expect the T.o.P to be wrapped up by sometime in the 4th quarter of 2018. RoF had 3 chapters based of 93 minutes. Since they mentioned that Toriyama made a story that he saw as too short so then he expanded upon it and it became too long so they are working to put it all together and then they mentioned how Toriyama finds it easier to tell a story in 2 hours than in a long running tv show, i’ll Assume this movie will be about 2 hours.

While this is inaccurate, my guess would be that this movie would be about 4 manga chapters long. And, possibly, since he said so, after those chapters, he will continue the Super story with the anime moist likely starting up later in 2019. But if they want the manga to stay in front of the anime, either Toyotaro picks up the pace and it becomes weekly OR the anime becomes a seasonal anime that takes breaks.

And hopefully Toyotaro w/ Toriyama get their stuff together to push out better stories while Toei and its writers get their stuff together (perhaps via communicating with each other more or hiring one overseer) so that we have way less story and character inconsistencies.
It depends on how much Toyo-tarou's editor wants to stretch the arc out in the comic.
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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by prince212 » Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:43 pm

AnimeNation101 wrote:OR the anime becomes a seasonal anime that takes breaks.
.
That’s the best option for better quality.
It will be perfect for promotion purposes to have a manga introduction of the movie around December , meaning ending T.o.P arc in the next 6 chapters
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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by Saiga » Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:11 pm

majinwarman wrote: Everyone I talk to seems to have low expectations for the film. Is this a bad sign for the future of Dragon Ball?
I'm actually quite pleased by the decision to go back to making movies and the news we've had so far. I also think BOG was a bad film, but it's still the best of the new films and Super.

I do think Toriyama is hit and miss now. He has introduced some really questionable story developments, and I think his portrayal of some characters doesn't match the original. But when I look at ROF and Super and their flaws, I find that the biggest problems stem from what happens when Toriyama is less involved.

ROF took Toriyama's light script and adapted it into the movie without fleshing it out to fill like a complete work. That contributes to the pacing and narrative being really flat. This can also be seen in things like Jiren being undeveloped and having Toriyama's backstory for him just dropped onto the viewers verbatim.

The other issue I have with Super (and the TV series in general) is that when Toei do add to Toriyama's ideas, they often do a poor job of it. Super's pacing is reaaaaally bad for most of the run, and we get bad/poorly written scenes added in, or concepts introduced that won't go anywhere.

In a film, Toriyama can be more involved and there is no need to create additional content to support a weekly runtime. And from what we've heard so far, Toriyama has produced a lot more for this film, so we shouldn't have a repeat of ROF.
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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by sintzu » Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:45 am

majinwarman wrote:Everyone I talk to seems to have low expectations for the film. Is this a bad sign for the future of Dragon Ball?
That's normal cause we still don't know what the movie's called, we haven't seen its main image or have a trailer yet. It's hard to get too excited for something you know nothing about. Once the marketing kicks in you'll see the hype build up alongside it.
AnimeNation101 wrote:Around how many chapters do you think the movie will be for the DBS Manga ?.
It depends on the content of the actual movie. If there's a lot going on in its 90+ minute run time then you can expect the manga to be long as well.
WittyUsername wrote:I don’t know if I could say whether or not Toriyama is the problem, since I’ve been mixed on his work in the past five years.
Modern DB is a collaborative work between him, Toyotaro and the "editorial office", whatever that is. The main problem I have is that no one seems to want to step out of the franchise's comfort zone which is really holding back its potential. By the time this movie comes out we will have waited nearly 4 years for it only to get another Saiyan story. It can be the best Saiyan story in the world but at the end of the day it's still more of the same.
Saiga wrote:ROF took Toriyama's light script and adapted it into the movie without fleshing it out to fill like a complete work.
The Black arc also had a problem with Toriyama's script being light as a lot of the time either nothing was going on or the same thing kept happening. When the anime returns they need to avoid this problem by pushing Toriyama for more heavier scripts.
Last edited by sintzu on Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by PFM18 » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:24 am

RedHeat wrote:
majinwarman wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote: BoG really wasn't that great. Yes Goku lost and yes the whole 12 universes thing was a massive drop (at the time) but those happened at the end of the film take that away and you have a very boring film where nothing literally happens, the direction is very poor with action being handled woefully, the main cast being treated like utter contempt

ResF beat for beat is more or less the same as BoG except goofy shenanigans replaced with action. Both films are bad, calling them films is embarrassing to the word "film" itself!

About 6 or so months ago I watched both films back to back and they absolutely didn't sit right with me at all. I was the biggest ResF apologist for the longest time but a film that is like that needs strong direction and SB and instead what we got was weak. And BoG I kept finding problems after problems with the hindsight of the retelling.

As result I don't have very high expectations for this film, even lower then the U.S arc (which was pretty low itself since I didn't like the U6 arc much but surprisingly I enjoyed the U.S arc quite a bit). Quality wise DB is so far from anything.
Everyone I talk to seems to have low expectations for the film. Is this a bad sign for the future of Dragon Ball?
No, because those people are the vocal minority when it comes to the opinions of DBS.
Yes, exactly. If you look at more "mainstream" sources in things like Reddit, then DBS is very well received and so I don't think that the overall fanbase looks at DBS with a negative light. It may just appear that way because like in the news or really anything in general, the negative rhetoric dominates the discussion most of the time.

To me personally, DBS is just as good as DBZ and DB and I have extremely high expectations for the movie.

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by prince212 » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:11 am

PFM18 wrote:I don't think that the overall fanbase looks at DBS with a negative light. It may just appear that way because like in the news or really anything in general, the negative rhetoric dominates the discussion most of the time.

To me personally, DBS is just as good as DBZ and DB and I have extremely high expectations for the movie.
100% agree
The only thing that bugs me is that seems impossible to me being able to watch the movie without being spoiled before , and that’s again negativity...
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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by Dragono » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:39 am

prince212 wrote:
AnimeNation101 wrote:OR the anime becomes a seasonal anime that takes breaks.
.
That’s the best option for better quality.
It will be perfect for promotion purposes to have a manga introduction of the movie around December , meaning ending T.o.P arc in the next 6 chapters
I disagree with that. Seven deadly sins is seasonal and has been disappointing to say the least.

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by sintzu » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:51 am

Dragono wrote:I disagree with that. Seven deadly sins is seasonal and has been disappointing to say the least.
Story or production wise ? Of course there's no guarantee DB would completely benefit from a seasonal format but the more time the staff has to work and plan things out the better its chances will be to avoid the issues it currently has.
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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:36 am

majinwarman wrote: Everyone I talk to seems to have low expectations for the film. Is this a bad sign for the future of Dragon Ball?
Absolutely not. I think the way U.S arc left off leaves the future in a bright spot but I think this movie in particular has more people being apprehensive because of the past talk and Saiyans etc given what happened in DB Minus.

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:44 am

I don't have great expectations mostly because of the bad taste the anime left in my mouth. Their tendency to be afraid of everything new and just rehash stuff from before is grievous, even worse with the total disrespect towards the viewership going on(remember the plot point in the last episode, we are just going to ignore it in the first second of the following one).

I also suspect Mr.Toriyama due to that FnF movie, I just give him a discount since I believe there might be a lot of circumstantial stuff. Like with the FnF they asked him to write a another movie and the series continuation wasn't expected so he just wrote something for fun, carried by the Freeza return idea. Likewise I don't think his ideas in Super were bad, had he be the one to execute them they would definitely been 10 times better than what the anime and manga gave us.

Hopefully this is 70%/80% Mr.Toriyama and the rest is supervision by others who aren't executives clamoring for new transformations or constricting ideas(the villain is an old dude, that's so lame change it!). If it's as good as BoG I will be extremely pleased.

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by sintzu » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:04 am

LightBing wrote:I don't think his ideas in Super were bad, had he be the one to execute them they would definitely been 10 times better than what the anime and manga gave us.
He approves everything or most of what Toei and Toyotaro do and he's the one giving them these bare bones plot lines to work with so he's just as at fault for modern DB's issues as everyone else. 80% of Toriyama isn't going to change anything cause that's what we've been getting, what DB needs is new blood willing to take risks with completely new ideas and move the series forward.
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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:15 am

RedHeat wrote:new movie reference sheets

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
Anyone know what the it says under the SSGSS designs for Goku and Vegeta after "超サイヤ人ゴッド超サイヤ人" there is a slash for Goku and Vegeta that have different kanji.

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:20 am

sintzu wrote:
LightBing wrote:I don't think his ideas in Super were bad, had he be the one to execute them they would definitely been 10 times better than what the anime and manga gave us.
He approves everything or most of what Toei and Toyotaro do and he's the one giving them these bare bones plot lines to work with so he's just as at fault for modern DB's issues as everyone else. 80% of Toriyama isn't going to change anything cause that's what we've been getting, what DB needs is new blood willing to take risks with completely new ideas and move the series forward.
You're telling me he would bring back Ginyu or have Vegeta vs Botamo be a reel of the first one best moments or the various other things like so? No, he would his own thing. I'm not saying he only has good ideas and the others messed them up.

He had new ideas, Hit is a unique new type of antagonist in his fighting style, Zeno is something new which changed the balance of Dragon Ball, Zamasu's reasons are unlike anything in Dragon Ball and he even admitted he himself wouldn't be able to write him properly so he conceded to giving Toyotarõ and Toei something unique to add to the mix.
He also had bad ideas, like Frost or the repetition of the tournament scenario even if all tournaments in Super were unique in their rules.

I agree that the current compromise isn't working and is holding Dragon Ball back but I disagree that Mr.Toriyama is actively hurting the franchise in the way of ideas. He's doing what he's always done, the difference is now he can't executed what he comes up with.

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by sintzu » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:40 am

LightBing wrote:
sintzu wrote:
LightBing wrote:I don't think his ideas in Super were bad, had he be the one to execute them they would definitely been 10 times better than what the anime and manga gave us.
He approves everything or most of what Toei and Toyotaro do and he's the one giving them these bare bones plot lines to work with so he's just as at fault for modern DB's issues as everyone else. 80% of Toriyama isn't going to change anything cause that's what we've been getting, what DB needs is new blood willing to take risks with completely new ideas and move the series forward.
You're telling me he would bring back Ginyu or have Vegeta vs Botamo be a reel of the first one best moments or the various other things like so? No, he would his own thing. I'm not saying he only has good ideas and the others messed them up.

He had new ideas, Hit is a unique new type of antagonist in his fighting style, Zeno is something new which changed the balance of Dragon Ball, Zamasu's reasons are unlike anything in Dragon Ball and he even admitted he himself wouldn't be able to write him properly so he conceded to giving Toyotarõ and Toei something unique to add to the mix.
He also had bad ideas, like Frost or the repetition of the tournament scenario even if all tournaments in Super were unique in their rules.

I agree that the current compromise isn't working and is holding Dragon Ball back but I disagree that Mr.Toriyama is actively hurting the franchise in the way of ideas. He's doing what he's always done, the difference is now he can't executed what he comes up with.
Hit is a great character but it's too bad he was overshadowed by the u6 saiyans. Toroyama has shown he can still come up with great ideas but they're either not fully developed or they take a back seat to familiar, nostalgic elements. Look at this new movie, instead of doing something completely new he's giving us another saiyan story.
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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by Toxin45 » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:52 am

sintzu wrote:
LightBing wrote:
sintzu wrote:
He approves everything or most of what Toei and Toyotaro do and he's the one giving them these bare bones plot lines to work with so he's just as at fault for modern DB's issues as everyone else. 80% of Toriyama isn't going to change anything cause that's what we've been getting, what DB needs is new blood willing to take risks with completely new ideas and move the series forward.
You're telling me he would bring back Ginyu or have Vegeta vs Botamo be a reel of the first one best moments or the various other things like so? No, he would his own thing. I'm not saying he only has good ideas and the others messed them up.

He had new ideas, Hit is a unique new type of antagonist in his fighting style, Zeno is something new which changed the balance of Dragon Ball, Zamasu's reasons are unlike anything in Dragon Ball and he even admitted he himself wouldn't be able to write him properly so he conceded to giving Toyotarõ and Toei something unique to add to the mix.
He also had bad ideas, like Frost or the repetition of the tournament scenario even if all tournaments in Super were unique in their rules.

I agree that the current compromise isn't working and is holding Dragon Ball back but I disagree that Mr.Toriyama is actively hurting the franchise in the way of ideas. He's doing what he's always done, the difference is now he can't executed what he comes up with.
Hit is a great character but it's too bad he was overshadowed by the u6 saiyans. Toroyama has shown he can still come up with great ideas but they're either not fully developed or they take a back seat to familiar, nostalgic elements. Look at this new movie, instead of doing something completely new he's giving us another saiyan story.
Still this? Your complaining about the new stuff to move forward? Dragon Ball super lacked new villains with only goku black being the original villain of super and we don't need the other 4 universes to get new opponents.

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:09 am

sintzu wrote:Hit is a great character but it's too bad he was overshadowed by the u6 saiyans. Toroyama has shown he can still come up with great ideas but they're either not fully developed or they take a back seat to familiar, nostalgic elements. Look at this new movie, instead of doing something completely new he's giving us another saiyan story.
I feel like that's a disingenuous critic. A story about something never introduced isn't by default better than about something know. I mean technically every single story in Dragon Ball is another Saiyan story since Goku, a Saiyan, has his fingerprint in them. You see how one could dilute criticism to strip out any assessment to the actual content, the old "can't see the forest for the trees".

If the story turns out to be bad it's just that, not because of the topic. Same scenario in the opposite result, if it's good it's because it's good not because it's about Saiyans.

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by SilverPlaqueVII » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:22 am

Toxin45 wrote:
sintzu wrote:
LightBing wrote: You're telling me he would bring back Ginyu or have Vegeta vs Botamo be a reel of the first one best moments or the various other things like so? No, he would his own thing. I'm not saying he only has good ideas and the others messed them up.

He had new ideas, Hit is a unique new type of antagonist in his fighting style, Zeno is something new which changed the balance of Dragon Ball, Zamasu's reasons are unlike anything in Dragon Ball and he even admitted he himself wouldn't be able to write him properly so he conceded to giving Toyotarõ and Toei something unique to add to the mix.
He also had bad ideas, like Frost or the repetition of the tournament scenario even if all tournaments in Super were unique in their rules.

I agree that the current compromise isn't working and is holding Dragon Ball back but I disagree that Mr.Toriyama is actively hurting the franchise in the way of ideas. He's doing what he's always done, the difference is now he can't executed what he comes up with.
Hit is a great character but it's too bad he was overshadowed by the u6 saiyans. Toroyama has shown he can still come up with great ideas but they're either not fully developed or they take a back seat to familiar, nostalgic elements. Look at this new movie, instead of doing something completely new he's giving us another saiyan story.
Still this? Your complaining about the new stuff to move forward? Dragon Ball super lacked new villains with only goku black being the original villain of super and we don't need the other 4 universes to get new opponents.
Except DBS has a few minor villains such as Gryll and Frost.
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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by Dragono » Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:02 am

sintzu wrote:
LightBing wrote:I don't think his ideas in Super were bad, had he be the one to execute them they would definitely been 10 times better than what the anime and manga gave us.
He approves everything or most of what Toei and Toyotaro do and he's the one giving them these bare bones plot lines to work with so he's just as at fault for modern DB's issues as everyone else. 80% of Toriyama isn't going to change anything cause that's what we've been getting, what DB needs is new blood willing to take risks with completely new ideas and move the series forward.
Thats what they said about star wars, look how that's going.

We don't need new ideas and we don't need risks. What we need are good stories. Super had new shit and super definitely took risks or are you going to try and tell me that a battle royale isn't risky especially with a weekly anime with bad production issues.

But Its what you do, its how you do it. Concepts be damned. Execution is where its at. Toriyama always had some dumb ideas, hell super saiyan was kinda dumb but he executed them well enough for them to work.

Thats why super has issues, thats why minus had issues, thats why RoF has issues.The execution is not there and whether young blood or old, we need it there.

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by Michsi » Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:09 am

Dragono wrote:
sintzu wrote:
LightBing wrote:I don't think his ideas in Super were bad, had he be the one to execute them they would definitely been 10 times better than what the anime and manga gave us.
He approves everything or most of what Toei and Toyotaro do and he's the one giving them these bare bones plot lines to work with so he's just as at fault for modern DB's issues as everyone else. 80% of Toriyama isn't going to change anything cause that's what we've been getting, what DB needs is new blood willing to take risks with completely new ideas and move the series forward.
Thats what they said about star wars, look how that's going.

We don't need new ideas and we don't need risks. What we need are good stories. Super had new shit and super definitely took risks or are you going to try and tell me that a battle royale isn't risky especially with a weekly anime with bad production issues.

But Its what you do, its how you do it. Concepts be damned. Execution is where its at. Toriyama always had some dumb ideas, hell super saiyan was kinda dumb but he executed them well enough for them to work.

Thats why super has issues, thats why minus had issues, thats why RoF has issues.The execution is not there and whether young blood or old, we need it there.
These aren't mutually exclusive. Super has been playing it safe and all those callbacks to what people loved in DB that it were getting hard to ignore. That's why we have multicolored SSJ transformations, that's why Freeza keeps coming back again and again, that's why we have Piccolo shielding Gohan again and again. I agree that execution is important, maybe even the most important, but there is only so much excecution can do when you have yet another tournament arc.

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