AnimeNation101 wrote:Why does everyone forget that the scenes of Bardock’s rebellion where he takes on the Freeza army as in the manga?
AnimeNation101 wrote:Not the point. You and Al claimed that they aren’t being inconsistent. All i did was debunk your claim or his claim that you agreed with. While it doesn’t have as much of an impact on the plot, the Bardock scene is the most well known scene for him ever. And it kinda defines his character.
I didn't forget about that but a couple of panels don't make a full story. Burdock opposing Freeza and being blown up can still have happened.
You're letting your feelings fool you. Back then, there was no Burdock story in the manga so, obviously, the special defined how the character "was". But now (and in Minus), the creator of the story actually showed us what actually happened. Whether you liked the special or not, there's no denying the fact that Toriyama's version is what counts since he was the one to create Dragon Ball. When people bash Minus because of Burdock or "plotholes", they're actually saying they can't handle change because of their feelings. But facts don't care about feelings, so... it'd be better for everyone to understand the context and forget about the special.
I've explained multiple times how it seems as if they’ve erased the rebellion IN THE TRAILER.
Sure, it could have still happened. But going off of what we’ve seen in the trailer scenes, it DIDN’T happen. I never said the Bardock story WAS in the manga. I said the scene of the rebellion was. Thats what this whole convo is about. Again, FROM WHAT THE TRAILER SHOWS, THE REBELLION NEVER HAPPENED.
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie.
"I don't think I'm a hero of justice or anythin'. But those who'd hurt my friends... I won't forgive!"
AnimeNation101 wrote:I've explained multiple times how it seems as if they’ve erased the rebellion IN THE TRAILER.
Sure, it could have still happened. But going off of what we’ve seen in the trailer scenes, it DIDN’T happen. I never said the Bardock story WAS in the manga. I said the scene of the rebellion was. Thats what this whole convo is about. Again, FROM WHAT THE TRAILER SHOWS, THE REBELLION NEVER HAPPENED.
The trailer isn't proof that we won't see nothing about Bardock's rebellion.
That said, they don't need to show or hint Bardock's rebellion in the movie, but what is shown in the manga could still happen.
Maybe they show Bardock and Gine saying goodbye to Goku, then the scene jumps to the destruction of the planet and Freeza laughing. Bardock's rebellion could still happen in that period of time.
I feel as if my prediction is very likely to happen.
I believe in the beginning, Paragus is going to challenge Frieza using Broly. Paragus however has no idea that Frieza trained for four months ( ...) and just finished a Survival tournament, making him much stronger than he anticipated. When (or if) Broly fights Frieza, I think Broly might start to give him trouble, but the fight ends before he has the opportunity to keep growing. Frieza most likely having to resort to Golden Frieza. This could lead Paragus to believe that Broly still has a long way to go before he challenges Frieza (Frieza would be bluffing. we all know Broly is pretty much there already). Frieza then leads them to challenging Vegeta and Goku, ultimately tricking them to pledge their loyalty. Knowing Brolys potential is high.
AnimeNation101 wrote:I've explained multiple times how it seems as if they’ve erased the rebellion IN THE TRAILER.
Sure, it could have still happened. But going off of what we’ve seen in the trailer scenes, it DIDN’T happen. I never said the Bardock story WAS in the manga. I said the scene of the rebellion was. Thats what this whole convo is about. Again, FROM WHAT THE TRAILER SHOWS, THE REBELLION NEVER HAPPENED.
The trailer isn't proof that we won't see nothing about Bardock's rebellion.
That said, they don't need to show or hint Bardock's rebellion in the movie, but what is shown in the manga could still happen.
Maybe they show Bardock and Gine saying goodbye to Goku, then the scene jumps to the destruction of the planet and Freeza laughing. Bardock's rebellion could still happen in that period of time.
That wouldn't be a retcon.
Listen. In the trailer we see Freeza have the blast in his finger and then throw it. That means we would HAVE to see Bardock and the Freeza soldiers if the rebellion happened. If Bardock and the soldiers is nowhere to be seen when Freeza is charging up and throwing his blast, then the rebellion never happened. And judging from the lack of any characters in the scene, the trailer makes it seem as if the rebellion never happened.
There is no talk of “Maybe they show Bardock and Gine saying goodbye to Goku, then the scene jumps to the destruction of the planet and Freeza laughing” because we already know we’re gonna see the whole scene of Freeza destroying the planet.
Bottomline, if Bardock and the soldiers aint their (and the trailer makes it seems as if they aren’t their) then the rebellion didn’t happen
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie.
"I don't think I'm a hero of justice or anythin'. But those who'd hurt my friends... I won't forgive!"
Shaddy wrote:This is all assuming that's planet Vegeta being destroyed there, you know. Ajay's comment there didn't just sound like off-handed speculation.
Pretty sure when he said “oops” he was referring to how they were contradicting the manga.
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie.
"I don't think I'm a hero of justice or anythin'. But those who'd hurt my friends... I won't forgive!"
AnimeNation101 wrote:Listen. In the trailer we see Freeza have the blast in his finger and then throw it. That means we would HAVE to see Bardock and the Freeza soldiers if the rebellion happened. If Bardock and the soldiers is nowhere to be seen when Freeza is charging up and throwing his blast, then the rebellion never happened. And judging from the lack of any characters in the scene, the trailer makes it seem as if the rebellion never happened.
There is no talk of “Maybe they show Bardock and Gine saying goodbye to Goku, then the scene jumps to the destruction of the planet and Freeza laughing” because we already know we’re gonna see the whole scene of Freeza destroying the planet.
Bottomline, if Bardock and the soldiers aint their (and the trailer makes it seems as if they aren’t their) then the rebellion didn’t happen
We don't know if a retcon will happen. We don't even know if Freeza is destroying Vegeta planet in that scene of the trailer.
Also, the scene can focus on Freeza without show other characters, but Bardock's rebellion still can happen. That depends how they show that scene in the movie (not the trailers).
Last edited by Konja7 on Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1. Bardock sending Goku away is as much acting like Jor El as any good parent ever. If you look at fiction many parents have sent their children away when there was danger to them and the child does usually return as an adult and avenge their parents.
2. If the shot is the trailer is Frieza destroying Vegeta maybe Bardock was shot down in this version instead of being directly in the blast.
AnimeNation101 wrote:Listen. In the trailer we see Freeza have the blast in his finger and then throw it. That means we would HAVE to see Bardock and the Freeza soldiers if the rebellion happened. If Bardock and the soldiers is nowhere to be seen when Freeza is charging up and throwing his blast, then the rebellion never happened. And judging from the lack of any characters in the scene, the trailer makes it seem as if the rebellion never happened.
There is no talk of “Maybe they show Bardock and Gine saying goodbye to Goku, then the scene jumps to the destruction of the planet and Freeza laughing” because we already know we’re gonna see the whole scene of Freeza destroying the planet.
Bottomline, if Bardock and the soldiers aint their (and the trailer makes it seems as if they aren’t their) then the rebellion didn’t happen
We don't know if a retcon will happen. We don't even know if Freeza is destroying Vegeta planet in that scene of the trailer.
Also, the scene can focus on Freeza without show other characters, but Bardock's rebellion still can happen. That depends how they show that scene in the movie (not thae trailers).
Thats OBVIOUSLY Freeza destroying Planet Vegeta. Thats the Planet and Freeza is doing the exact same Supernova attack to destroy it. You’re not making sense. Thats the scene where Planet Vegeta is destroyed. So if Bardock’s rebellion happened, then Bardock and the thousands of Freeza soldiers would HAVE to also be in the scene or in the background of the scene. You’re talking like what they show in the trailers isn’t whats it the movie. In the trailer, you dont see Bardock or the Freeza soldiers which suggests that the rebellion never happened. Simple as that.
If the rebellion still happened, why would they show a scene of Freeza destroying the planet with no Bardock or the soldiers? They wouldn’t do that.
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie.
"I don't think I'm a hero of justice or anythin'. But those who'd hurt my friends... I won't forgive!"
AnimeNation101 wrote:Thats OBVIOUSLY Freeza destroying Planet Vegeta. Thats the Planet and Freeza is doing the exact same Supernova attack to destroy it. You’re not making sense. Thats the scene where Planet Vegeta is destroyed. So if Bardock’s rebellion happened, then Bardock and the thousands of Freeza soldiers would HAVE to also be in the scene or in the background of the scene. You’re talking like what they show in the trailers isn’t whats it the movie. In the trailer, you dont see Bardock or the Freeza soldiers which suggests that the rebellion never happened. Simple as that.
If the rebellion still happened, why would they show a scene of Freeza destroying the planet with no Bardock or the soldiers? They wouldn’t do that.
You saw Freeza destroying a Planet. So far, we can't be sure that it's Vegeta Planet
The staff of movie may decide focus on Freeza, while they doen't show Bardock and the other soldiers. However, that doesn't mean his rebellion couldn't happen.
At the end, we aren't see the film yet. So, it is too soon to accuse this of retcon.
Honestly, this whole Minus stuff kills most of my interest for this film. This, plus the fact that there won't be any subbed showings, mean I'm probably just gonna spoil myself as soon as there are write ups, and watch it when it comes out on Blu Ray.
The second trailers come out, and while the story content seems questionable currently, I was just blown away by the fantastic use of colours in the trailer. Something that stuck out me is how flat and sterile BOG and ROF were with their respective colour palette's. It made those movies seem less of a cinematic experience, and more along the lines of a lesser episode or special. Although though not exemplary in terms of movement this time round, the use of colours to create atmosphere blew me away in the trailer. Everything looked gorgeous as a result. It seems like this movie will genuinely feel like a cinematic experience, which I think will be more than enough to make this film worth seeing.
Extreme_kai wrote:I like how the trailer looks. It was nice seeing the Ginyu force and King Cold again. Also, I see a lot of people commenting on Freeza's appearance in the trailer, he lacks the armor and looks very pink without the stripes. I wonder if he was actually a child in the trailer which would make him closer to Vegeta and Goku in age . What I hate the most are the retcons. Vegeta should be older than Goku and we all know how the fandom feels about minus (myself included). I'm going to roll with it though, I like the franchise too much despite the rampant revisionism. Let's hope it's at least enjoyable to watch.
I dont think vegeta is a baby at the same time as goku. We see a kid vegeta in the trailer, we dont see anything older than toddler Goku.
It literally says in the trailer that Bardock, Broly, and Goku are born around the same time. 5 year gap is NOT around the same time.
I'm not challenging you or anything man but I don't see that stated in the trailer, do you mind pointing it out.
AnimeNation101 wrote:Not the point. You and Al claimed that they aren’t being inconsistent. All i did was debunk your claim or his claim that you agreed with. While it doesn’t have as much of an impact on the plot, the Bardock scene is the most well known scene for him ever. And it kinda defines his character.
And it makes it even worse that the DBM Bardock is suspicious of Freeza enough to send his son off planet yet, it seems as if he still doesn’t rebel. We don’t know if he tries to warn others like the King but from what we do know, it seems as if he just sits on his suspicion and lets things play out.
The scene of Bardock rebelling agaisnt Freeza still can happen. Minus doesn't contradict that scene at all. In fact, Bardock is suspicious about Freeza in Minus, so this could lead to his rebellion.
The movie Broly doesn't need to show that Bardock rebels against Freeza either, but his rebellion still can happen.
It may bother you that they do not show that scene in Minus, but that does not mean a retcon.
You make no sense. If the movie shows Freeza destroy the Planet with Bardock NOWHERE TO BE SEEN then how can the rebellion have still happened?! And we know the movie shows Freeza destroying the Planet because its in the TRAILER!
And I’ve already explained that from what we’ve seen in the trailer, they seemed to have erased the rebellion.
But wasn't planet vegeta shown be red in the trailer but the planet freeza blew up was blue?
AnimeNation101 wrote:Thats OBVIOUSLY Freeza destroying Planet Vegeta. Thats the Planet and Freeza is doing the exact same Supernova attack to destroy it. You’re not making sense. Thats the scene where Planet Vegeta is destroyed. So if Bardock’s rebellion happened, then Bardock and the thousands of Freeza soldiers would HAVE to also be in the scene or in the background of the scene. You’re talking like what they show in the trailers isn’t whats it the movie. In the trailer, you dont see Bardock or the Freeza soldiers which suggests that the rebellion never happened. Simple as that.
If the rebellion still happened, why would they show a scene of Freeza destroying the planet with no Bardock or the soldiers? They wouldn’t do that.
You saw Freeza destroying a Planet. So far, we can't be sure that it's Vegeta Planet
The staff of movie may decide focus on Freeza, while they doen't show Bardock and the other soldiers. However, that doesn't mean his rebellion couldn't happen.
At the end, we aren't see the film yet. So, it is too soon to accuse this of retcon.
1. That IS Planet Vegeta. You must not have been paying attention but Planet Vegeta got a make over. Its the exact same Planet that Freeza destroys. Everyone knows that. You’re the only one saying other wise and you have no really evidence. Its fal out Planet Vegeta
2. You have no evidence that suggests that the staff would do such a thing. And it wouldn’t make sense for them to animate a scene where characters are their but they aren’t shown. That makes no sense. If the rebellion happened, we would see Bardock and the Freeza soldiers but the trailer suggests otherwise
3. The trailer is made up of stuff from the film. So it’s fair to assume that since the trailer doesn’t show Bardock’s rebellion where it would usually be, the rebellion seemingly got retconned out of existence.
At this point, you’re just assuming stuff about what the staff is doing with no evidence of your claims.
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie.
"I don't think I'm a hero of justice or anythin'. But those who'd hurt my friends... I won't forgive!"
nato25 wrote:
I dont think vegeta is a baby at the same time as goku. We see a kid vegeta in the trailer, we dont see anything older than toddler Goku.
It literally says in the trailer that Bardock, Broly, and Goku are born around the same time. 5 year gap is NOT around the same time.
I'm not challenging you or anything man but I don't see that stated in the trailer, do you mind pointing it out.
I can ignore the Bardock Special 100%, but that really doesn't change that Minus is still even on it's own really shit. It's just the special makes it even more apparently shit.
Hopefully the iconic Bardock rebellion is still there, but I'm not holding my breath.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Konja7 wrote:
The scene of Bardock rebelling agaisnt Freeza still can happen. Minus doesn't contradict that scene at all. In fact, Bardock is suspicious about Freeza in Minus, so this could lead to his rebellion.
The movie Broly doesn't need to show that Bardock rebels against Freeza either, but his rebellion still can happen.
It may bother you that they do not show that scene in Minus, but that does not mean a retcon.
You make no sense. If the movie shows Freeza destroy the Planet with Bardock NOWHERE TO BE SEEN then how can the rebellion have still happened?! And we know the movie shows Freeza destroying the Planet because its in the TRAILER!
And I’ve already explained that from what we’ve seen in the trailer, they seemed to have erased the rebellion.
But wasn't planet vegeta shown be red in the trailer but the planet freeza blew up was blue?
No. Planet Vegeta is not red anymore. In the beginning on the trailer, it was sunset. Thats all. Thats why in other parts of the trailer, when its day time, the sky is blue, not red. And it even shows that the Planet Freeza destroys is Planet Vegeta in the latest Jump scan. It was either Saikyo Jump or Weekly Shonen Jump. It was in the second to last video Geekdom101 posted
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie.
"I don't think I'm a hero of justice or anythin'. But those who'd hurt my friends... I won't forgive!"
There's still a chance the rebellion isnt retconned. There's still hope guys. The teaser trailer is clearly not going to be in the movie, for example. They could easily change it between now and then or maybe Bardock rebels in a different way. I dont know I just dont want to give up hope
Spoiler:
Super carries on much of Dragon Ball and Z's charm in ways that might not immediately be obvious, while also bringing something new to the table. I certainly can't think of any previous arcs like Goku Black, and, for all its problems, the Tournament of Power is possibly the most ambitious storytelling endeavor in series history as far as how its narrative unfolds. It's also a thrill ride, which is all I wanted and exactly what I got. Super also canonizes decades old fan theories in ways that very naturally tie into the overall fabric of Dragon Ball's world in satisfying ways. All in all, Dragon Ball, Z, and Super are all well worth experiencing.
...) and just finished a Survival tournament, making him much stronger than he anticipated. When (or if) Broly fights Frieza, I think Broly might start to give him trouble, but the fight ends before he has the opportunity to keep growing. Frieza most likely having to resort to Golden Frieza. This could lead Paragus to believe that Broly still has a long way to go before he challenges Frieza (Frieza would be bluffing. we all know Broly is pretty much there already). Frieza then leads them to challenging Vegeta and Goku, ultimately tricking them to pledge their loyalty. Knowing Brolys potential is high.
. What I hate the most are the retcons. Vegeta should be older than Goku and we all know how the fandom feels about minus (myself included). I'm going to roll with it though, I like the franchise too much despite the rampant revisionism. Let's hope it's at least enjoyable to watch.
