I won't be surprised if these retcons get retconed in a few years.fadeddreams5 wrote:So this movie will retcon the Bardock Special, Broly's character and backstory, Bardock's character and backstory, Goku's backstory, Vegeta's age, AND Frieza's first form appearance?
My childhood basically never happened.
Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.
Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"
I'm going to assume you meant brolly when you said goku does have ptsd hopefully I'm in correct in this assumption. I didn't say they "just were trying to be cool" in fact that's not a direct quote I said it's the cool thing to make fun of brolly's backstory. Brolly's backstory doesn't center around goku crying next to him that's an oversimplification, what you mean to say what brolly's motivation to hate goku is.PFM18 wrote:Well I worded my response poorly I'm sorry. There's never an emphasis on his PTSD being related to an attack on his life and THEN hearing Goku cry. They never really insinuated a connection there. Goku does have PTSD, but it is literally just a result of Goku crying next to him. Yes, there is a trigger and there's obviously a very negative association with this trigger. He does have PTSD my bad.snpaa wrote:The man goes berserk when he see's goku or hears his name , why do you believe he does that ? How is that not ptsd ,When goku is a clear trigger for him and goku clearly crying while he was having the most traumatic moment of his life?PFM18 wrote:
theres never an emphasis on anything resembling PTSD. It is literally just because he is crying. No it is not "the cool thing to do." It is just reasonable for people to dislike a guy who's backstory is focused around a baby crying next to him.
I willing to accept that I'm wrong if you can put a reasonable counter argument .
Point is, you arent "just trying to be cool" to criticize the fact that Broly's backstory is centered around a baby crying next to him.
It was the most forced way for him to hate the main character instead of Vegeta. Logically, he SHOULD have hated Vegeta for his father trying to kill him, but they didnt want to do that because Vegeta isnt the main character.
I want to remind you that my original argument is to point out what was Brolly's motivation to hate goku, I do agree it would have been better from a narrative perspective for brolly to hate vegeta more then goku or to equally hate them the same, maybe brolly was a shortsighted character that only has animosity for people he's personally met and thinks they have wrong him.
Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"
Except for Freeza, none of that was part of the actual story.fadeddreams5 wrote:So this movie will retcon the Bardock Special, Broly's character and backstory, Bardock's character and backstory, Goku's backstory, Vegeta's age, AND Frieza's first form appearance?
My childhood basically never happened.
Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"
Yeah and it again was Funi taking liberties with dialogue and completely changing the tone of a line and character. No wonder the American dub has such a bad rep for dumbing down the original. It's 2018 and they still feel the need to spice the dialogue up. Pathetic.Baggie_Saiyan wrote:Deliver of that line was perfect!The Patrolman wrote:Freeza: Hello Monkeys
Ok wow man.
In other other news....the CG in that trailer looks rough. Man, definitely a distractment. Such a shame when the 2D animation looks so good.
Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"
Freeza in itself is a big deal. Bardock standing up to Freeza and being killed by him was shown in the manga but there's still a chance it'll show up here...hopefully. In terms of the Bardock special as a whole, it may not have been entirely in the manga but it's such an integral part of DB that changing it this late is just idiotic, especially in a movie being made to support fan demands. Goku's origin is another thing being changed for the fun of it, despite it being clearly stated in the manga and common sense to every DB fan. What they're doing now (and what they've been doing since 2008), is changing things just for the sake of changing them and to make things worse, the changes aren't even good. Instead of changing established lore, instead of relying on nostalgia, why can't modern DB just move on with new things and leave the past alone ?alakazam^ wrote:Except for Freeza, none of that was part of the actual story.fadeddreams5 wrote:So this movie will retcon the Bardock Special, Broly's character and backstory, Bardock's character and backstory, Goku's backstory, Vegeta's age, AND Frieza's first form appearance?
My childhood basically never happened.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"
There are usually edits in trailers to prevent spoilers these daysKaiza_Toshiyuki wrote:For those of you dont understand how a misleading trailer works, let me give you an example.
This Image is from the trailer for Thor RagnarokThis Image is from the actual movieSpoiler:You see how they kept thor's lost eye hidden so it was still a surprise when the movie came out. I wouldn't put it past them to pull this kind of thing on the fandom. Not to mention this scene could be un-finished. It might have Bardock's Rebellion still happen.Spoiler:
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"
Bardock special can still happen and we never really had a backstory on him besides his actual appearancesfadeddreams5 wrote:So this movie will retcon the Bardock Special, Broly's character and backstory, Bardock's character and backstory, Goku's backstory, Vegeta's age, AND Frieza's first form appearance?
My childhood basically never happened.
Broly we knew about already
Goku's age was already known since Minus
Freeza's forms can be put down to aging/puberty I guess?
Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"
The Bardock special as we know it cannot happen. The only thing that can happen still is his rebellion.mahakaishin1991 wrote:Bardock special can still happen and we never really had a backstory on him besides his actual appearancesfadeddreams5 wrote:So this movie will retcon the Bardock Special, Broly's character and backstory, Bardock's character and backstory, Goku's backstory, Vegeta's age, AND Frieza's first form appearance?
My childhood basically never happened.
Broly we knew about already
Goku's age was already known since Minus
Freeza's forms can be put down to aging/puberty I guess?
Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"
Yeah it really annoys me when people say the Bardock special can still happen when it clearly can't, not unless you remove Bardock's characterization, his stance on Goku, yknow the things that make the Bardock special worthwhile.Doctor. wrote:The Bardock special as we know it cannot happen. The only thing that can happen still is his rebellion.mahakaishin1991 wrote:Bardock special can still happen and we never really had a backstory on him besides his actual appearancesfadeddreams5 wrote:So this movie will retcon the Bardock Special, Broly's character and backstory, Bardock's character and backstory, Goku's backstory, Vegeta's age, AND Frieza's first form appearance?
My childhood basically never happened.
Broly we knew about already
Goku's age was already known since Minus
Freeza's forms can be put down to aging/puberty I guess?
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"
You all should just chill out and stop crying. This trailer may be edited and there are probably more scenes between Frieza's Supernova attack and where the ball falls on the surface.
Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"
Or it could be that "hello monkeys" fit the timing of that line better and if they'd gone with "pleased to meet you," he'd have had to say it unnaturally fast.Jord wrote:Yeah and it again was Funi taking liberties with dialogue and completely changing the tone of a line and character. No wonder the American dub has such a bad rep for dumbing down the original. It's 2018 and they still feel the need to spice the dialogue up. Pathetic.Baggie_Saiyan wrote:Deliver of that line was perfect!The Patrolman wrote:Freeza: Hello Monkeys
Ok wow man.
Seriously, we have two language versions of this trailer released side by side and people still don't get it. The people dubbing this material understand it better than you do.
Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"
He's right though, they do feel the need to spice every single shit up. Look at FighterZ with the dialogue changes. Sure, most Americans loved it. "UUH SHIT, SAVAGE VEGETA!!" But come on. Just stick to something that at least fucking looks like the original dialogue.Kataphrut wrote:Or it could be that "hello monkeys" fit the timing of that line better and if they'd gone with "pleased to meet you," he'd have had to say it unnaturally fast.Jord wrote:Yeah and it again was Funi taking liberties with dialogue and completely changing the tone of a line and character. No wonder the American dub has such a bad rep for dumbing down the original. It's 2018 and they still feel the need to spice the dialogue up. Pathetic.Baggie_Saiyan wrote: Deliver of that line was perfect!
Seriously, we have two language versions of this trailer released side by side and people still don't get it. The people dubbing this material understand it better than you do.
Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"
That dub change is effectively changing Freeza's personalty from a polite evil emperor, which makes him eerie, to typical insult hurling boring villain.
If your job is translation and you purposely alter the it's meaning, you've failed.
If your job is translation and you purposely alter the it's meaning, you've failed.
Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"
Are you...really trying to argue Chris Ayres' Freeza is a "typical insult hurling boring villain"? Not the pull the 'not-a-real-fan' card but come on! Even the die-hard original-Japanese-or-bust people can agree his version has the character down pat. That's not going to change because of this one line.LightBing wrote:That dub change is effectively changing Freeza's personalty from a polite evil emperor, which makes him eerie, to typical insult hurling boring villain.
If your job is translation and you purposely alter the it's meaning, you've failed.
Or let's all keep assuming a slight liberty taken for a single line in a trailer to make it better fit the timing of the original constitutes altering its meaning. Some people really are clueless.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"
Having now watched the trailer in English, I am all for Toriyama's take on the past and looking forward to it
Though my excitement for the movie can't hit max while UK release is still in limbo.
Though my excitement for the movie can't hit max while UK release is still in limbo.
Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"
I'm not arguing how that actor makes the character the character sound, I don't watch the dub I do not know. I'm looking at the line in isolation. Which does alter it's meaning, which goes against the character personality,Kataphrut wrote:Are you...really trying to argue Chris Ayres' Freeza is a "typical insult hurling boring villain"? Not the pull the 'not-a-real-fan' card but come on! Even the die-hard original-Japanese-or-bust people can agree his version has the character down pat. That's not going to change because of this one line.LightBing wrote:That dub change is effectively changing Freeza's personalty from a polite evil emperor, which makes him eerie, to typical insult hurling boring villain.
If your job is translation and you purposely alter the it's meaning, you've failed.
Or let's all keep assuming a slight liberty taken for a single line in a trailer to make it better fit the timing of the original constitutes altering its meaning. Some people really are clueless.
Don't insult people for calling the things as they are, I'm flexible to trying to fit lines but this isn't modifying the line while keeping it's meaning mostly intact, this is a complete change. Which like I said before is a translator failing at it's job or an actor undermining what the character represents. Freeza throwing an insult instead of saying let's work together is freaking bad.
Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"
That's the reason people call sub fans elitist, for the slightest of line changes. You know they could have just changed it to match lip flaps right? I prefer the Japanese too, but at this point its getting a bit ridiculous to complain about every line changeLightBing wrote:I'm not arguing how that actor makes the character the character sound, I don't watch the dub I do not know. I'm looking at the line in isolation. Which does alter it's meaning, which goes against the character personality,Kataphrut wrote:Are you...really trying to argue Chris Ayres' Freeza is a "typical insult hurling boring villain"? Not the pull the 'not-a-real-fan' card but come on! Even the die-hard original-Japanese-or-bust people can agree his version has the character down pat. That's not going to change because of this one line.LightBing wrote:That dub change is effectively changing Freeza's personalty from a polite evil emperor, which makes him eerie, to typical insult hurling boring villain.
If your job is translation and you purposely alter the it's meaning, you've failed.
Or let's all keep assuming a slight liberty taken for a single line in a trailer to make it better fit the timing of the original constitutes altering its meaning. Some people really are clueless.
Don't insult people for calling the things as they are, I'm flexible to trying to fit lines but this isn't modifying the line while keeping it's meaning mostly intact, this is a complete change. Which like I said before is a translator failing at it's job or an actor undermining what the character represents. Freeza throwing an insult instead of saying let's work together is freaking bad.
Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"
So I've been called elitist and clueless for stating my opinion and why I have it, awesome...
I guess calling a crowd "monkeys" and saying "pleased to meet you" are synonymous. Do I have to make myself even clearer how this line change isn't just to fit the mouth flaps(which is fine) with the way it changed the meaning completely? Or am going to be called a whiny bitch next?
I guess calling a crowd "monkeys" and saying "pleased to meet you" are synonymous. Do I have to make myself even clearer how this line change isn't just to fit the mouth flaps(which is fine) with the way it changed the meaning completely? Or am going to be called a whiny bitch next?
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"
I dunno, Freeza's supposed to sound like a right prick who looks down upon lesser beings whilst being polite about it either way, right?LightBing wrote:So I've been called elitist and clueless for stating my opinion and why I have it, awesome...
I guess calling a crowd "monkeys" and saying "pleased to meet you" are synonymous. Do I have to make myself even clearer how this line change isn't just to fit the mouth flaps(which is fine) with the way it changed the meaning completely? Or am going to be called a whiny bitch next?
Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"
That's a very...interesting reading of his character.LightBing wrote:That dub change is effectively changing Freeza's personalty from a polite evil emperor, which makes him eerie, to typical insult hurling boring villain.
If your job is translation and you purposely alter the it's meaning, you've failed.
It's not that he was polite, he just understood that he was the strongest in the galaxy and acted as such.
And to be fair, he's clearly no longer the strongest in the galaxy so I don't mind the character change.
Anyways: I kind don't see the point of making that Dragonball Minus comic canon now. Largely because it makes the Superman comparisons even more overt