Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

[Grimlock]

Basically, he was a tragic antihero who failed but succeeded through his son

And in order to fail, he has at least to try. If he doesn't even try, he won't fail, and it will ruin the character badly. So you see, his stand cannot be denied even in the wildest dreams. It has to happen.

[mahakaishin1991]

So this movie will retcon the Bardock Special, Broly's character and backstory, Bardock's character and backstory, Goku's backstory, Vegeta's age, AND Frieza's first form appearance?

My childhood basically never happened.

Bardock special can still happen and we never really had a backstory on him besides his actual appearances
Broly we knew about already
Goku's age was already known since Minus
Freeza's forms can be put down to aging/puberty I guess?

The Bardock special as we know it cannot happen. The only thing that can happen still is his rebellion.

Most of the big events can still happen. Going off world, his team being killed and him going after frieza can still happen. Just with alterations. The long and the short of it still has room to exist but not in the same way the movie lead us to believe

[JulieYBM]

When Gokuu and Vegeta are in the incubators they look younger than they do when outside so I believe the flashback will take place in two different periods of time. Or not. I don't really care, it looks great anyway.

[LightBing]

So I've been called elitist and clueless for stating my opinion and why I have it, awesome...

I guess calling a crowd "monkeys" and saying "pleased to meet you" are synonymous. Do I have to make myself even clearer how this line change isn't just to fit the mouth flaps(which is fine) with the way it changed the meaning completely? Or am going to be called a whiny bitch next?

I dunno, Freeza's supposed to sound like a right prick who looks down upon lesser beings whilst being polite about it either way, right?

He's supposed to sound polite and we infer he's an asshole based on everything else. It's a trait which makes him even more scary. Which is why saying "pleased to meet you" to a race he's basically enslaving is completely different than straight up calling them monkeys.

That dub change is effectively changing Freeza's personalty from a polite evil emperor, which makes him eerie, to typical insult hurling boring villain.
If your job is translation and you purposely alter the it's meaning, you've failed.

That's a very...interesting reading of his character.

It's not that he was polite, he just understood that he was the strongest in the galaxy and acted as such.

And to be fair, he's clearly no longer the strongest in the galaxy so I don't mind the character change.


Anyways: I kind don't see the point of making that Dragonball Minus comic canon now. Largely because it makes the Superman comparisons even more overt

Being the strongest in the galaxy doesn't mean you have to act x way. We had various characters who were the strongest ever until that point and all handled it differently. It's their personalities.

Regardless this isn't about interpreting characters, your job as a translator(bar exceptions) isn't to interpret anything. If the line said "pleased to meet you" you should translate that, if there's obstacles to do it perfectly you work around it trying to keep the meaning as faithful as possible. Completely changing the line isn't that.

[MKCSTEALTH]

So I'm confinced after seeing the English dub of Trailer 2, that when Frieza is discussing the "perfect plan to eliminate the Saiyans", he's talking to Beerus.

[sintzu]

Basically, he was a tragic antihero who failed but succeeded through his son

And in order to fail, he has at least to try. If he doesn't even try, he won't fail, and it will ruin the character badly. So you see, his stand cannot be denied even in the wildest dreams. It has to happen.

Bardock's last stand gave weight to Goku's fight and victory over Freeza on Namek. If they take that away then a part of what makes their "rivalry" special will be lost and Freeza will just be another villain Goku beats just because.

[LightBing]

Bardock's last stand gave weight to Goku's fight and victory over Freeza on Namek. If they take that away then a part of what makes their "rivalry" special will be lost and Freeza will just be another villain Goku beats just because.

I strongly disagree with you. Goku doesn't even know his dad or his role, as the manga is presented his role is nothing more than a curiosity.

Bardock's contribution is a sprinkle. Freeza killed Goku's race, killed a bawling Vegeta who poured his heart out, killed Goku's best friend and basically extinguished the Namekian race. There's weight and it isn't just a one dimensional thing.

[BlueBasilisk]

It finally clicked for me this morning. Bardock and Gine said they were going to tell Raditz about Kakarot because they were still expecting him to come home. Frieza's order was for all Saiyans to return and they had no way of knowing Vegeta told him to ignore it. They never told him because he never came home.

The Galactic Patrol came to the same conclusion Raditz did; the Earth's a lowly backwater planet with weak inhabitants so the Saiyans sent a child to conquer it.

[Doctor.]

It finally clicked for me this morning. Bardock and Gine said they were going to tell Raditz about Kakarot because they were still expecting him to come home. Frieza's order was for all Saiyans to return and they had no way of knowing Vegeta told him to ignore it. They never told him because he never came home.

The Galactic Patrol came to the same conclusion Raditz did; the Earth's a lowly backwater planet with weak inhabitants so the Saiyans sent a child to conquer it.

And now you realize the obvious plothole in the room of how the fuck Raditz found out Goku went to Earth when his parents never told him and they stole a pod so that they wouldn't be tracked.

[ssj3kakarot]

It finally clicked for me this morning. Bardock and Gine said they were going to tell Raditz about Kakarot because they were still expecting him to come home. Frieza's order was for all Saiyans to return and they had no way of knowing Vegeta told him to ignore it. They never told him because he never came home.

The Galactic Patrol came to the same conclusion Raditz did; the Earth's a lowly backwater planet with weak inhabitants so the Saiyans sent a child to conquer it.

Not a bad way to bridge the different stories and make them still sorta fit. Raditz simply knew his brother was on Earth, and naturally assumed he was sent their to conquer it. But like you said, Raditz never was told that Goku was sent their to escape from Big F & Co. So when he shows up, he assumes Kakarot forgot his mission, when really, he didnt.

[alakazam^]

Freeza in itself is a big deal. Bardock standing up to Freeza and being killed by him was shown in the manga but there's still a chance it'll show up here...hopefully. In terms of the Bardock special as a whole, it may not have been entirely in the manga but it's such an integral part of DB that changing it this late is just idiotic, especially in a movie being made to support fan demands. Goku's origin is another thing being changed for the fun of it, despite it being clearly stated in the manga and common sense to every DB fan. What they're doing now (and what they've been doing since 2008), is changing things just for the sake of changing them and to make things worse, the changes aren't even good. Instead of changing established lore, instead of relying on nostalgia, why can't modern DB just move on with new things and leave the past alone ?

Freeza's form can be explained so that's not a really issue (it does contradict the panel we saw in the manga, though).

As for Burdock, we saw a panel of him hovering on "space", bloody, angry and with people around him. What happened before and after that scene is fair game. If they remove it, then they remove it, since is such a non-event for a non-character in the manga. It's not integral to Dragon Ball at all, that's your nostalgia speaking, which is the problem with all this complaints about him. Goku's origins are fine the way they are now, since they don't contradict what we knew.

It's dishonest to say they're changing things for the hell of it, these things are planned beforehand. Their reason might even be to not present a 1:1 comparison of what we saw in the anime but all parties involved are aware of, have discussed and agreed to the changes. You might not like or understand the reason they did it but you can't say there's no reason to it because there certainly is.

Also, I've been reading on Twitter another explanation for Freeza's form. First, Kuriiza's body is similar to this "new" Freeza's. Second, we never see Freeza's shoulder pads in the manga while he has his armor on, even when they should be seen from the side. We only see them when he announces he's going to transform and breaks his armor. What if he created his white upper body on the spot and that's why his armor broke?

[ssj3kakarot]

It finally clicked for me this morning. Bardock and Gine said they were going to tell Raditz about Kakarot because they were still expecting him to come home. Frieza's order was for all Saiyans to return and they had no way of knowing Vegeta told him to ignore it. They never told him because he never came home.

The Galactic Patrol came to the same conclusion Raditz did; the Earth's a lowly backwater planet with weak inhabitants so the Saiyans sent a child to conquer it.

And now you realize the obvious plothole in the room of how the fuck Raditz found out Goku went to Earth when his parents never told him and they stole a pod so that they wouldn't be tracked.

That could be a simple backstory. Raditz hears a rumor, somehow, about how a 3 year old Saiyan was sent away. Anyway, they do some abra-kadabra science, and poof! Raditz knows he's on Earth. That could further explain why he left Nappa and Vegeta. Raditz found out about his long lost brother and disbanded to get his brother back.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Bardock's last stand gave weight to Goku's fight and victory over Freeza on Namek. If they take that away then a part of what makes their "rivalry" special will be lost and Freeza will just be another villain Goku beats just because.

I strongly disagree with you. Goku doesn't even know his dad or his role, as the manga is presented his role is nothing more than a curiosity.

Bardock's contribution is a sprinkle. Freeza killed Goku's race, killed a bawling Vegeta who poured his heart out, killed Goku's best friend and basically extinguished the Namekian race. There's weight and it isn't just a one dimensional thing.

Exactly! I don't like how people are acting like Bardock was special. He confronted Freeza so what he died all the same, Freeza didn't even remember his name so shows how special he was. Goku didn't even bat an eye lid when Freeza implied he met his father.

The fight on Namek wasn't solely Goku avenging the Saiyan race in fact I'd argue that wasn't even one of Goku's main intentions, he primarily fought Freeza because well he was the bad guy. And when Freeza killed Krillin then it became personal. He unlocked SS when his human best friend died. Krillin is easily more important to the Freeza arc compared to Bardock.

[Bullza]

Bardock is too popular for his own good, he's not a particularly good or interesting character at all.

I hope that Paragus isn't going to Earth in this movie for the same reason he did in Movie 8. I said before about unoriginal the movie seemed and people said to wait for the new trailer, now we have the new trailer and it looks more unoriginal than before.

So far the most original thing about this movie is that Goku has a coat.

[kudo6000]

Bardock is too popular for his own good, he's not a particularly good or interesting character at all.

I hope that Paragus isn't going to Earth in this movie for the same reason he did in Movie 8. I said before about unoriginal the movie seemed and people said to wait for the new trailer, now we have the new trailer and it looks more unoriginal than before.

So far the most original thing about this movie is that Goku has a coat.

Paragus swears revenge by using Broly in the trailer so it’s safe to assume his character won’t be a far cry from his M8 self.

[BlueBasilisk]

It finally clicked for me this morning. Bardock and Gine said they were going to tell Raditz about Kakarot because they were still expecting him to come home. Frieza's order was for all Saiyans to return and they had no way of knowing Vegeta told him to ignore it. They never told him because he never came home.

The Galactic Patrol came to the same conclusion Raditz did; the Earth's a lowly backwater planet with weak inhabitants so the Saiyans sent a child to conquer it.

And now you realize the obvious plothole in the room of how the fuck Raditz found out Goku went to Earth when his parents never told him and they stole a pod so that they wouldn't be tracked.

That's not a plot hole, it's just unexplained how exactly he came into that knowledge. More than 20 years passed between Goku leaving Vegeta and Raditz's arrival. There's at least one record of the pod heading to Earth since the Galactic Patrol did notice it and sent Jaco to intercept. The Earth is also in space that is known to and seems to be monitored by both the Frieza Force and the Galactic Patrol. There are numerous ways he could have found out about it after the fact.

[FortuneSSJ]

So this movie will retcon the Bardock Special, Broly's character and backstory, Bardock's character and backstory, Goku's backstory, Vegeta's age, AND Frieza's first form appearance?
My childhood basically never happened.

Your childhood still happened, but it's getting retconned.

[ZeroNeonix]

Is Bardock voiced by someone new, or is it the same guy just using his voice differently? It feels a little odd to me, since I'm used to the old Bardock's voice. King Cold also sounds different.

[ZeroNeonix]

So this movie will retcon the Bardock Special, Broly's character and backstory, Bardock's character and backstory, Goku's backstory, Vegeta's age, AND Frieza's first form appearance?
My childhood basically never happened.

Your childhood still happened, but it's getting retconned.

Can't be retconned if it was never canon to begin with. The Bardock special and Broly movies were not canon. Vegeta's age may not have even changed, and we don't know the reasoning behind Frieza's new First Form design.

[Bergamo]

I like Krillin, but it's not like I complained when he was the first one knocked out for u7. I can look past "cool" things, and see the larger narrative.

Is Krillin your favourite character?

He's up there.