Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Miracles
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Miracles » Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:03 pm

Noah wrote:It isn't, that is only your truth. These statements had nothing to do with canocity as I doubt Toriyama was thinking specifically about continuity when he said that. He's was just concerned with the story he wrote long ago and the next he wants to tell, misinterpret his words all you want, it would change this fact.
It's not my truth when Toriyama said it, it's THE TRUTH. Stop the delusion, he completely set the franchises stories in order. Using terms like the DBZ movies being in a "separate dimension from the comic" cause he was solely an audience member to them or defining DBGT as a "side story" from the comic means it deals with what is AUTHENTIC [canon] Dragonball.

Try reaching harder.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by RecolorSaiyan » Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:12 pm

Fan 1 : "Hey how come Freeza didn't know goku beat buu in RoF when he saw their fight in hell during Z, Isn't that a plothole?"

Fan 2 : "That was just filler, not in the manga"

Meaning whats in the OG Manga is what counts, anything else can be ignored when it comes to discussions. So therefore there IS a canon

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Grimlock » Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:23 pm

RecolorSaiyan wrote:So therefore there IS a canon
There is not. The example you gave is a perfect one that there is "continuity", not "canonicity". I won't bother myself to explain the difference because this should be a common knowledge by now. But I can say that things can happen in a continuity and not in another, but that doesn't make the latter "non-canon" until official confirmation/claim/statement from an official entity (Toriyama, Toei or Shueisha) not by random people (also known as "fans"). Movie characters can appear in the manga continuity if someone opens up a wormhole and bring them there. The "alternate dimension" concept exists in Dragon Ball franchise, it was established by Akira Toriyama himself in Daizenshuu 6.

Anyway, this has become off-topic. Let's drop this and return talking about Dragon Ball Super Broly now.
Last edited by Grimlock on Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Rakurai » Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:24 pm

This canon debate still going on? Jesus.

Let me ask y'all: do you consider Super anime 'canon?' Because that makes clear references to the Z anime, which is not considered 'canon' by many fans. And yet fans at the same time vehemently claim that the Super anime is canon.

Should BoG/RoF be considered more canon since they were written by Toriyama whereas Super only provided outlines and two different medium interpretations of it?

Should the original manga be damned since Jaco & DB Minus clearly contradicts Raditz/Roshi's statements of Goku being sent to Earth as a baby? Since it contradicts Frieza's flashback of Bardock?

At this point, it's clear the only thing Toriyama really cares about is writing an interesting story. He may use the original manga as a reference to his story, but that doesn't mean it will be consistent with it. It's too old and he's too forgetful.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:06 pm

I'm more interested in seeing if there's anything more to Broly's various forms beyond "they're forms he uses because reasons".

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Mister_Popo » Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:24 pm

Grimlock wrote:
RecolorSaiyan wrote:So therefore there IS a canon
There is not. The example you gave is a perfect one that there is "continuity", not "canonicity". I won't bother myself to explain the difference because this should be a common knowledge by now. But I can say that things can happen in a continuity and not in another, but that doesn't make the latter "non-canon" until official confirmation/claim/statement from an official entity (Toriyama, Toei or Shueisha) not by random people (also known as "fans"). Movie characters can appear in the manga continuity if someone opens up a wormhole and bring them there. The "alternate dimension" concept exists in Dragon Ball franchise, it was established by Akira Toriyama himself in Daizenshuu 6.

Anyway, this has become off-topic. Let's drop this and return talking about Dragon Ball Super Broly now.

Main continuity is the modern word for canon. So even if Toriyama dies, and Shueisha / TOEI continue this main story, it will still be canon.
The author however at this point is still Toriyama.
If Toriyama or Shueisha had made multiple continuities that have relevance, like you have in DC or Marvel Universe, we can have several continuities that are 'canon'.
This is NOT the case.
In Dragon Ball it's very clear what the main storyline is and what the side stories are. Toriyama has stated it clearly several times over.
What do you want? Him to make a public statement by video, declaring to the world, it's 'canon', guys?

Frankly, this "there is no canon"-statement is just made up by Youtubers that want to create the illusion everything is as important just because it fits them well, or Super-haters that want to make their claim or create an illusion GT still has the same relevance as Super. It annoys me quite frankly because it misinforms other fans.

If you believe it, it's on your account, but please don't spread misinformation.
Last edited by Mister_Popo on Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Shounen » Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:25 pm

TheRed259 wrote:According to this TV spot, the movie is planned to be screened in more than 90 countries.
For the record, in the case of the Resurrection ‘F’ they talked about 74 countries.
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2015/04/20/to ... countries/

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by GT_Goten10 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:57 pm

Jaco->DB Minus->DB Manga->DBS Anime->DBS Broly is the new Continuity there is Not even a debate imo
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Cetra » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:02 pm



Main continuity is the modern word for canon. So even if Toriyama dies, and Shueisha / TOEI continue this main story, it will still be canon.
The author however at this point is still Toriyama.
If Toriyama or Shueisha had made multiple continuities that have relevance, like you have in DC or Marvel Universe, we can have several continuities that are 'canon'.
This is NOT the case.
In Dragon Ball it's very clear what the main storyline is and what the side stories are. Toriyama has stated it clearly several times over.
What do you want? Him to make a public statement by video, declaring to the world, it's 'canon', guys?

Frankly, this "there is no canon"-statement is just made up by Youtubers that want to create the illusion everything is as important just because it fits them well, or Super-haters that want to make their claim or create an illusion GT still has the same relevance as Super. It annoys me quite frankly because it misinforms other fans.

If you believe it, it's on your account, but please don't spread misinformation.
He is not spreading misinformation. You are, beginning by the fallacy of thinking "sidestory" amounts to being non-canonical.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Rakurai » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:16 pm

Calling the films in a different universe and GT a side story are two completely different classifications. Kishimoto named his spin-off, which takes place in the main continuity as Naruto Gaiden. Gaiden = 外伝 = side story.

Anyways, this canon debate is fruitless. DB is a type of franchise that cannot simply have something that's as integral as 'canon.'
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Mister_Popo » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:39 pm

Cetra wrote:


Main continuity is the modern word for canon. So even if Toriyama dies, and Shueisha / TOEI continue this main story, it will still be canon.
The author however at this point is still Toriyama.
If Toriyama or Shueisha had made multiple continuities that have relevance, like you have in DC or Marvel Universe, we can have several continuities that are 'canon'.
This is NOT the case.
In Dragon Ball it's very clear what the main storyline is and what the side stories are. Toriyama has stated it clearly several times over.
What do you want? Him to make a public statement by video, declaring to the world, it's 'canon', guys?

Frankly, this "there is no canon"-statement is just made up by Youtubers that want to create the illusion everything is as important just because it fits them well, or Super-haters that want to make their claim or create an illusion GT still has the same relevance as Super. It annoys me quite frankly because it misinforms other fans.

If you believe it, it's on your account, but please don't spread misinformation.
He is not spreading misinformation. You are, beginning by the fallacy of thinking "sidestory" amounts to being non-canonical.
The original movies and GT weren't made by Toriyama. He just said they happened in another dimension or declaired them sidestories to be fateful to the franchise.
He is still the creator and hasn't integrated them into anything. Not untill Broly became canon.

Maybe this thread isn't the place to discuss this. For me there is however no debate, it's as clear as daylight.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Xeztin » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:04 pm

I think the main reason why everyone has to have a “cannon” is that whatever is cannon is whatever is on televison at the time or some involvment by Toriyama. If they say Toryiama penned everything in the franchise the fandom would implode on itself. Dragon Ball is a series with multiple time lines, universes, dimensions where anything can happen. We’ve seen two trunks could exist at the same time while having different lives and pasts. We’ve seen future counterparts and such. Why is it so hard to accept that rather than focus on one line and ignore the rest? Toriyama has shown that he himself is not sentimental to this timeline or reality he created as he rewrites it or changes things within it for fun. What would happen if this timeline was destroyed and Goku ended up in a different where he had to live among the same people such as Vegeta, but its not the Vegeta he came to know in his original timeline? (A rick and morty type of deal). Where Goku lived like nothing happened?

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:17 pm

Xeztin wrote:I think the main reason why everyone has to have a “cannon” is that whatever is cannon is whatever is on televison at the time or some involvment by Toriyama. If they say Toryiama penned everything in the franchise the fandom would implode on itself. Dragon Ball is a series with multiple time lines, universes, dimensions where anything can happen. We’ve seen two trunks could exist at the same time while having different lives and pasts. We’ve seen future counterparts and such. Why is it so hard to accept that rather than focus on one line and ignore the rest? Toriyama has shown that he himself is not sentimental to this timeline or reality he created as he rewrites it or changes things within it for fun. What would happen if this timeline was destroyed and Goku ended up in a different where he had to live among the same people such as Vegeta, but its not the Vegeta he came to know in his original timeline? (A rick and morty type of deal). Where Goku lived like nothing happened?
I think it's the idea of having something concrete and unchanging to use as a foundation.

Generally speaking, people don't like when their preconceived notions are shattered; it can be hard to accept when something challenges your worldview. The idea of a "canon", an unchanging narrative foundation that is added on rather than changed, is a popular concept that people hold dearly to themselves; a story with internal consistency and logic is generally a better story, qualitatively speaking.

So, when a man like Toriyama throws that to the wind in favour of making changes to what's already been established, it can really rustle people's jimmies; it's not the changes he's actually making, it's the fact that he's making changes in the first place. Most folks don't want things to be changed, they want things to be added to what's already there.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Miracles » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:08 pm

People are purposely being blind to Toriyama's reasons for saying something being outside his DB. Labeling the DBZ movies being in "another dimension form his comic" is because the author was "SOLELY AN AUDIENCE MEMBER to them." He had nothing to do with writing the stories. Therefore he himself has considered the DBZ movies taking place out of his original Dragonball. Same with GT, as a "side story, OF THE ORIGINAL DRAGONBALL." He himself clearly is not placing them in his DB's universe, like he does Dragonball Super, which takes place some time after Majin Buu's defeat.

I understand people like GT or this type of series in the franchise and they want it to matter but the fact is that depends on Toriyama who has said what Dragonball is cause he is the creator.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Bebi Hatchiyack » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:20 pm

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:it can really rustle people's jimmies.
Well about that this guy can say a lot about rustling if you know what I mean ! Look it's in his name :D
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PFM18 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:41 pm

GT_Goten10 wrote:Jaco->DB Minus->DB Manga->DBS Anime->DBS Broly is the new Continuity there is Not even a debate imo
Yeah I agree. I don't really understand how there is a debate.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Koitsukai » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:51 pm

Quick question: when would be the right time to get off the internet to avoid major spoilers? sure, now the news and spoilers chase YOU, but like when should I go radio silence and stick to non-dbz related sites?

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Super Saiyan Swagger » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:55 pm

Koitsukai wrote:Quick question: when would be the right time to get off the internet to avoid major spoilers? sure, now the news and spoilers chase YOU, but like when should I go radio silence and stick to non-dbz related sites?
The film will be having its premiere in Japan on November 14, so I highly recommend you go on lockdown mode around then. I sure as hell will be avoiding everything Dragon Ball related around that time.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Chuquita » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:03 pm

I'm actually relieved spoilers will appear a month earlier than I thought. Mid November is way easier for me than the holiday season.

Plus maybe I'll read about a scene in the movie I'll really look forward to that hasn't been in the ads. Who knows!
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Noah » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:52 pm

Miracles wrote:It's not my truth when Toriyama said it, it's THE TRUTH. Stop the delusion, he completely set the franchises stories in order. Using terms like the DBZ movies being in a "separate dimension from the comic" cause he was solely an audience member to them or defining DBGT as a "side story" from the comic means it deals with what is AUTHENTIC [canon] Dragonball.

Try reaching harder.
To this day, we have no established timeline according with the events of the past and current stories. So no matter how you want to force Toriyama words on something he didn't even directly mentioned, you won't convince anyone, but yourself.

Try better next time.
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