Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

[BrolyKale]

How does this even remotely indicate he is embracing his pride? Because he says "I'll share some of that pride" is supposed to be validating your claim? This entire scene just boils down to mourning Vegeta's death and then leading into Goku wanting to avenge all of the people Freeza has killed. He doesn't even emphasize Saiyans, he comments on all the people Freeza kills and mentions Saiyans and Namekians. It has very little to do with embracing his Saiyan heritage.

I mean, you're just ignoring what he literally says: he's going to share Vegeta's pride on their race. If you don't feel like this is embracing his Saiyan heritage when he outright refused to acknowledge himself as a Saiyan when he met Raditz, then I don't see how Goku calling himself Kakarot is any different.

They're basically the same character. If anything, Paragus is the same guy except better because he also shows his savage Saiyan side by killing the friend he came with just to save food. JUST to save food, he murders this guy. Everything else is the same.

They're not really the same character. Paragus apparently sees Broly as a tool from the start, taking away the nuance of the character, but I'll hold on for more information before I say that with the confidence. The real problem is demonizing Paragus in favor of portraying Broly as this tragic, innocent figure.

Really not seeing how they’re “demonising” Paragus. Broly’s loyalty to him along with the fact that his murder is what truly sets him off I feel shows that while supposedly harsh he did more or less treat his son well. And that’s ignoring the whole, “leaving his planet to rescue his son” bit

Treat his son well? Cheelai and Lemo wouldn't agree with that. Broly is loyal to his father because he only has him as a companion.

[Doctor.]

Really not seeing how they’re “demonising” Paragus. Broly’s loyalty to him along with the fact that his murder is what truly sets him off I feel shows that while supposedly harsh he did more or less treat his son well. And that’s ignoring the whole, “leaving his planet to rescue his son” bit

They're demonizing Paragus because Cheelye, who is apparently the voice of reason in the film as she's the one who rescues Broly and sees the good in him (so, clearly, she's the one we're meant to agree with considering Goku shares her point of view as well), demonizes Paragus while sucking Broly off.

[Basaku]

Hearing that Paragus explains that golden eyes+big black hair means Broly's using Oozaru power in human state. Hmmm, hard not to interpret this as a clear set up for canon SSJ4 design/form no?

Also, was the Cooler mention confirmed by now?

[BrolyKale]

Hearing that Paragus explains that golden eyes+big black hair means Broly's using Oozaru power in human state. Hmmm, hard not to interpret this as a clear set up for canon SSJ4 design/form no?

Also, was the Cooler mention confirmed by now?

No cooler in the movie.

[CTAkuma]

Hearing that Paragus explains that golden eyes+big black hair means Broly's using Oozaru power in human state. Hmmm, hard not to interpret this as a clear set up for canon SSJ4 design/form no?

Also, was the Cooler mention confirmed by now?

Seems like it, i mean it sort of looks like SS4 too, yellow eyes and black spiky hair

[ekrolo2]

I really like that King Vegeta’s motivation for exiling Broly is just going to be jealousy over overt politics. I think that actually gives some real foregrounding as well as to who Vegeta is as a character, which I think fits perfectly with what the film is going for.

If the film is going for the angle that the sons end up like the fathers, then it falls flat because Broly is nothing like Paragus.

Interestingly enough, a story line focused on fatherhood would fit much better with the original versions of the characters. Bardock was a dick who didn't care about his son(s) until he saw the power he'd end up having, Vegeta thought of his son as an extension of himself and Paragus seemed to genuinely love Broly in a humane way; Goku ended up kindhearted and never gave his father a second thought, Vegeta loved only himself and thought of his father as a weakling, and Broly was a monster who tormented his father and forced him to see his son as nothing more than a tool. All of them contrasted not only with their fathers but with each-other as well.

That's a far more interesting contrast and dynamic than "Bardock gud, Paragus bad, Broly twagic. I clapped when I saw it!"

I honestly think the movies not even gonna make a big deal out of the father son thing, it'll probably be most relevant in the flashback chunk then they'll just forget about it or have it hover someplace without doing anything. Which is basically what you predicted ages ago

[Dragono]

Really not seeing how they’re “demonising” Paragus. Broly’s loyalty to him along with the fact that his murder is what truly sets him off I feel shows that while supposedly harsh he did more or less treat his son well. And that’s ignoring the whole, “leaving his planet to rescue his son” bit

They're demonizing Paragus because Cheelye, which is apparently the voice of reason in the film as she's the one who rescues Broly and sees the good in him (so, clearly, she's the one we're meant to agree with considering Goku shares her point of view as well), demonizes Paragus while sucking Broly off.

Didn't paargus use broly as tool in the original to get revenge on vegeta and wasn't he going to abandon him on the planet that was bound to explode as well? And isnt the whole point of Paragus' revenge in this movie was because king vegeta shipped his son off ?

Aren't saiyans suppose to assholes by default anyway?

[Basaku]

No cooler in the movie.

Obviously, but I wasn't asking about that but whether a mention of him happened in the movie

[JazzMazz]

I really like that King Vegeta’s motivation for exiling Broly is just going to be jealousy over overt politics. I think that actually gives some real foregrounding as well as to who Vegeta is as a character, which I think fits perfectly with what the film is going for.

If the film is going for the angle that the sons end up like the fathers, then it falls flat because Broly is nothing like Paragus.

Interestingly enough, a story line focused on fatherhood would fit much better with the original versions of the characters. Bardock was a dick who didn't care about his son(s) until he saw the power he'd end up having, Vegeta thought of his son as an extension of himself and Paragus seemed to genuinely love Broly in a humane way; Goku ended up kindhearted and never gave his father a second thought, Vegeta loved only himself and thought of his father as a weakling, and Broly was a monster who tormented his father and forced him to see his son as nothing more than a tool. All of them contrasted not only with their fathers but with each-other as well.

That's a far more interesting contrast and dynamic than "Bardock gud, Paragus bad, Broly twagic. I clapped when I saw it!"

I really love your opinion. I also think the old versions were more interesting.

Also, whose to say that's the perspective the film is going for? That may definitely be an element, but it appears to me that the movie is far more about the effect their parents had on the three Saiyan's in their later lives and I think from what we've seen, thats been perfectly put.

Vegeta's insecurities around inferiority came from his upbringing by a father who was jealous of Broly because he was better than Vegeta. Broly is emotionally numb due to his enviroment and his manipulative and angry father despite there being an element of him genuinely caring for Broly(that will probably be elaborated upon in the film itself). Goku ends up the best of the bunch, because even though he doesn't remember his parents, they were the only ones of the three to truly did something purely in the interest of their child(not something I necessarily agree with, but is effective here nonetheless). As a result, he ends up the most emotionally secure and kind of the bunch(something that is also esasperated with his upbringing by Gohan).

King Vegeta never saw or particularly felt anything about what happened to Vegeta in pretty much every previous incarnation, so I have no idea where your getting this "as an extension of himself" idea from. Also, none of this contrast was bought to attention when comparing all three in the previous movies. King Vegeta appears once, and he doesn't do anything to constrast with Paragus as a father, same for Bardock.

Also, whose to say that Paragus is purely evil? Broly obviously cares about his father despite his fathers character flaws, to get immensely upset upon seeing him killed.

[Lord Beerus]

I'm gonna take a "wait and see" approach with this film. The only thing really bugs is from what I've about the movie plot is Minus being... well... Minus.

[BrolyKale]

No cooler in the movie.

Obviously, but I wasn't asking about that but whether a mention of him happened in the movie

That's what I meant... no mention of "cooler" in the movie.

[AnimeNation101]

Hearing that Paragus explains that golden eyes+big black hair means Broly's using Oozaru power in human state. Hmmm, hard not to interpret this as a clear set up for canon SSJ4 design/form no?

Also, was the Cooler mention confirmed by now?

Where did you hear that?

Also, no one else has confirmed Cooler. Ken is saying that when they talk about Freeza and his height, they show what looks to be another member of Freeza’s race showcasing the differnt forms. And the word “cooler” is used or something. Very fixed info

[ekrolo2]

Really not seeing how they’re “demonising” Paragus. Broly’s loyalty to him along with the fact that his murder is what truly sets him off I feel shows that while supposedly harsh he did more or less treat his son well. And that’s ignoring the whole, “leaving his planet to rescue his son” bit

They're demonizing Paragus because Cheelye, which is apparently the voice of reason in the film as she's the one who rescues Broly and sees the good in him (so, clearly, she's the one we're meant to agree with considering Goku shares her point of view as well), demonizes Paragus while sucking Broly off.

Didn't paargus use broly as tool in the original to get revenge on vegeta and wasn't he going to abandon him on the planet that was bound to explode as well? And isnt the whole point of Paragus' revenge in this movie was because king vegeta shipped his son off ?

Aren't saiyans suppose to assholes by default anyway?

That's later. At first, Paragus loves his son in a humane way and begs King Vegeta to spare him which almost gets him killed too. Then, after spending 30 years with Broly, a violent psychopath who wouldn't think twice about killing him, whatever affection Paragus has is lost and he only learns to view Broly as a monster or tool. He's a sympathetic and tragic character.

[Dragono]

They're demonizing Paragus because Cheelye, which is apparently the voice of reason in the film as she's the one who rescues Broly and sees the good in him (so, clearly, she's the one we're meant to agree with considering Goku shares her point of view as well), demonizes Paragus while sucking Broly off.

Didn't paargus use broly as tool in the original to get revenge on vegeta and wasn't he going to abandon him on the planet that was bound to explode as well? And isnt the whole point of Paragus' revenge in this movie was because king vegeta shipped his son off ?

Aren't saiyans suppose to assholes by default anyway?

That's later. At first, Paragus loves his son in a humane way and begs King Vegeta to spare him which almost gets him killed too. Then, after spending 30 years with Broly, a violent psychopath who wouldn't think twice about killing him, whatever affection Paragus has is lost and he only learns to view Broly as a monster or tool. He's a sympathetic and tragic character.

But here Paragus kills a man to save food for him and his son, how is that not love for his child?

Plus his father's death is super saiyan trigger. You spoke of subtlety, well thats pretty subtle way of saying Broly loved his father.

[Basaku]

No cooler in the movie.

Obviously, but I wasn't asking about that but whether a mention of him happened in the movie

That's what I meant... no mention of "cooler" in the movie.

Hearing that Paragus explains that golden eyes+big black hair means Broly's using Oozaru power in human state. Hmmm, hard not to interpret this as a clear set up for canon SSJ4 design/form no?

Also, was the Cooler mention confirmed by now?

Where did you hear that?

Also, no one else has confirmed Cooler. Ken is saying that when they talk about Freeza and his height, they show what looks to be another member of Freeza’s race showcasing the differnt forms. And the word “cooler” is used or something. Very fixed info

Thanks guys.

Saw the SSJ4 info on ResetEra, then tracked the original source (I think?) to that extensive summary making the rounds. Excerpt:

Spoiler:

As the Saiyan Prince is about to finish off Broly, the latter gets angrier and angrier and his power explodes as he awakens an imperfect Ikari form. This allows Broly to once again pressure SSG Vegeta and catch up to him. While I'm not 100% sure of this, it seems that Paragus mentions how this Ikari form (yellow eyes with huge muscles) is Broly using the Oozaru's power while in human form, and that it is very hard to control.

[JazzMazz]

They're demonizing Paragus because Cheelye, which is apparently the voice of reason in the film as she's the one who rescues Broly and sees the good in him (so, clearly, she's the one we're meant to agree with considering Goku shares her point of view as well), demonizes Paragus while sucking Broly off.

Didn't paargus use broly as tool in the original to get revenge on vegeta and wasn't he going to abandon him on the planet that was bound to explode as well? And isnt the whole point of Paragus' revenge in this movie was because king vegeta shipped his son off ?

Aren't saiyans suppose to assholes by default anyway?

That's later. At first, Paragus loves his son in a humane way and begs King Vegeta to spare him which almost gets him killed too. Then, after spending 30 years with Broly, a violent psychopath who wouldn't think twice about killing him, whatever affection Paragus has is lost and he only learns to view Broly as a monster or tool. He's a sympathetic and tragic character.

Doesn't he beg not to kill him because he could be a valuable military recourse? Wasn't that his whole argument?
Also, his not particularly sympathetic, his revealed to be a complete evil moustache twirling villain by the end of the film, the main sympathies of the film are supposed to be the people that Paragus enslaved to set this whole thing up.

[Xeztin]

Paragus called Vegeta Vegeta the fourth, if King Vegeta is 3, Who is 2 and 1? I wonder if that will get explained in a future arc... it seems we may be exploring the Saiyans history sometime in the future. I think its crap paragus wasn’t revived. Perhaps they will revive all 3 fathers in the future.

[AnimeNation101]

Obviously, but I wasn't asking about that but whether a mention of him happened in the movie

That's what I meant... no mention of "cooler" in the movie.

Hearing that Paragus explains that golden eyes+big black hair means Broly's using Oozaru power in human state. Hmmm, hard not to interpret this as a clear set up for canon SSJ4 design/form no?

Also, was the Cooler mention confirmed by now?

Where did you hear that?

Also, no one else has confirmed Cooler. Ken is saying that when they talk about Freeza and his height, they show what looks to be another member of Freeza’s race showcasing the differnt forms. And the word “cooler” is used or something. Very fixed info

Thanks guys.

Saw the SSJ4 info on ResetEra, then tracked the original source (I think?) to that extensive summary making the rounds. Excerpt:

Spoiler:

As the Saiyan Prince is about to finish off Broly, the latter gets angrier and angrier and his power explodes as he awakens an imperfect Ikari form. This allows Broly to once again pressure SSG Vegeta and catch up to him. While I'm not 100% sure of this, it seems that Paragus mentions how this Ikari form (yellow eyes with huge muscles) is Broly using the Oozaru's power while in human form, and that it is very hard to control.

Broly going SSJ4 or something that looked like the form was one of my main crackpot theories for this movie.

I’d love for them to bring an SSJ4 type of form into the series. I hope they expand upon it. Ssj4 is one of the most loved forms in all of DB. Surely those money lovers up at Toei and Shueisha know this. They should take advantage of it.

[BrolyKale]

Ok, so for the Cooler thing this is what people said :

by Ken :
"They were talking about Freezer's height and showed different forms of Freezer race.
These forms looked like Cooler.
Freezer wanted to be taller, Kikono said that the 2nd and 3rd form are taller and cooler.
To which Freezer replied by saying that he wants his Final Form to be taller."
note that Ken got these info by his friend who can't speak good japanese and had a hard time understanding things...

from reddit :
"A henchman points out that he'd better stay in his second form to become taller. Coola is not mentioned here."

[Doctor.]

King Vegeta never saw or particularly felt anything about what happened to Vegeta in pretty much every previous incarnation, so I have no idea where your getting this "as an extension of himself" idea from. Also, none of this contrast was bought to attention when comparing all three in the previous movies. King Vegeta appears once, and he doesn't do anything to constrast with Paragus as a father, same for Bardock.

That's false. Watch Dragon Ball Z #124; King Vegeta clearly wants Vegeta to succeed him and become the strongest he could possibly be. It's nothing too dissimilar from the King Vegeta here, but my problem is with Bardock, Broly and Paragus, not King Vegeta.

And I never said the contrast was brought to attention. I said that if they wanted to focus on the fathers of these three Saiyans, which this movie does, the potential dynamic offered by the original characterization of all these characters was far more interesting than what we have now.

Also, whose to say that Paragus is purely evil? Broly obviously cares about his father despite his fathers character flaws, to get immensely upset upon seeing him killed.

The fact that Broly is portrayed as a good boy who dindu nuffin and wouldn't hurt a housefly without the coercion of big, bad, meanie Paragus is enough to tell you that Broly only cares about his father because BROLY is that special and kind, not because Paragus has redeeming qualities. But again, I'll hold out for the movie on this point before saying it with conviction.