Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

[Diccolo-420]

Except nobody told shenron to go away, he left right after granting one wish, and that's also a huge stretch in logic that's just bad writing.

If someone had used up 2 wishes beforehand, Shenron would only have 1 wish left to grant. He said he would grant any 1 wish and then left. That means you assume someone has made 2 wishes previously.

This isn't bad writing. It's such an inconsequential part that is easily explained if you follow the series. Nobody is going to explain every single detail in a film.

I dug it. I dug it a lot. Saw back-to-back screenings of it. Enjoyed it more the second time. Both crowds I saw it with were intensely pro-Vegeta and mildly anti-Goku. Amusing.

For my more substantive thoughts on it, you can go here.

I really enjoyed your review. In fact it's one of the best I've read online. I love getting deep into the themes/motifs. Moreover, I think you totally nailed Dragon Balls' appeal to adults.

Thank you.

But I emphasize that this is not a review lol. At least I don't feel comfortable calling it that.

Your entire argument is based off assumptions and leaps in logic which A. makes no sense B. does nothing to explain the inconsistency in writing. The only explanation that makes sense is Toriyama, like launch, forgot about it entirely, which is to be expected since his ability to write coherently has gone down consistently since the cell saga.

The audience shouldn't need to make these assumptions in order to fill the gaps, the logic of the narrative should sustain itself. That is proper writing, which Dragon Ball clearly lacks at this point

[HybridSaiyan]

For those who have had the pleasure of seeing this movie , would you consider this Broly to be more barbaric and aggressive as the OG? Or has the brutality been lessened for censorship reasons?

[sailorspazz]

Okay. I've fused myself with the movie, so now I can discuss it fully!

I enjoyed it for what it was: a visual spectacle preceded by some good Toriyama-style character interactions. I'm always impressed how he can make characters that just fit so well, and are immediately memorable. Cheelye and Lemo were fun trio with Broli, and even snarky Berryblue made an impression in the scene where she called Freeza out on his wish (and that scene was made even more hilarious by how it echoed the Bulma scene that preceded it ). And Broli was definitely a step up over the old version of himself. Not like he's super deep or anything here, but at least he has more to him than just screaming "Kakarrot!" ad nauseum. I liked him here as a pure, innocent boi.

The fights were sexy as fuck, holy shit. Even though sometimes they got to the point where I couldn't look at them because I was getting motion sickness! But I'm glad that they just let the animators go insane on this thing. Even with some moments of noticeable CG (which in anime, is almost never a good thing), overall it was truly a sight to behold

I did have some issues with how it was constructed and paced, though. Pretty much all the exposition at the beginning, followed by a second half that was battle after battle. Found myself wishing it had been broken up a bit more evenly, or that some of those comedic moments could've come in the later parts too (though the biggest laughs at my theatre undoubtedly came from Freeza's, oh NO, your father died somehow!)

The dub cast was fine for the most part, though there were some parts where I was aching to hear the Japanese voices. There weren't too many lines where they took huge liberties as far as I could tell, but I definitely groaned when I could tell that they'd made shit up

Overall, I would put it as my second favorite Dragon Ball movie. I don't honestly find the old movies to be very memorable, and the only movie I truly love is Battle of Gods, so this one easily moves up into a high slot. Can't wait to watch it again in my preferred language somewhere down the line

[Shaddy]

For those who have had the pleasure of seeing this movie , would you consider this Broly to be more barbaric and aggressive as the OG? Or has the brutality been lessened for censorship reasons?

Dunno what you think "censorship" is here, unless it's just a general complaint about Super not having blood. Broly's fighting style is really similar to his original version, a lot of stuff is taken directly from the original film (and a bit of Kale, actually), and what's added is completely insane. Broly's personality outside of battle is much more docile and socially awkward, though.

[dragon boss z]

Definitely my favorite dragon ball movie so far. It had probably the best action, art, and animation of the entire franchise, great humor, and great character moments.

[TKA]

Your entire argument is based off assumptions and leaps in logic which A. makes no sense B. does nothing to explain the inconsistency in writing. The only explanation that makes sense is Toriyama, like launch, forgot about it entirely, which is to be expected since his ability to write coherently has gone down consistently since the cell saga.

Good God, man.

1. It's called inference. Here's a site that should be pretty helpful to bring you up to speed with that stuff. Understanding the world's mechanics makes it clear what happened. Another tool you might find useful is that of Occam's Razor. Here's what we know:

i. When you use shenron, you have 3 wishes
ii. You can make a wish or two and save the other(s) for later
iiB) If you do this, the time it takes for the dragonballs to stop being inert is lessened

If Shenron shows up and then specifies he'll grant any 1 wish, then the logical assumption is someone already used up 2 wishes. It's that fucking simple, my dude.

2. You're objectively, provably wrong about the Launch thing. Stop propagating fandom misunderstandings and misgivings. There's absolutely no evidence that Toriyama forgot Launch existed at any point. Kanzenshuu isn't just a forum, dude. It's a resource. Use it. Before you go accusing the movie of plotholes where there are none, brush up on your own understanding of the material.

3. What is it with you armchair writers talking down Toriyama's ability when he proves time and time again that he's the only person who can write good Dragonball?

The audience shouldn't need to make these assumptions in order to fill the gaps, the logic of the narrative should sustain itself. That is proper writing, which Dragon Ball clearly lacks at this point

Wow. Really? This minor fucking point that nobody is talking about is the point that proves Toriyama is a hack and that this movie has a giant plothole. Really, dude?

Good writers don't explain everything. Not even Tolkien explained everything. Writers provide the rules of the world and you, the reader/viewer, can then use those rules to fill in whatever insignificant detail they don't tell you about. Do you also consider it a plothole when you don't see characters pooping or peeing onscreen? Do you need characters to go "Oh wow, I just pooped/peed which is why I haven't needed to all this time I've been onscreen~"

No, because you know bathrooms and such exist. Well, we know how the Dragonballs work, so we don't need time dedicated to explaining exactly why only 1 wish was left.

Find real things to critique about the movie, my man. This is my last reply to you on this subject.

Also, maybe get some perspective on the franchise. I did my best to explain a lot of what was going on this movie.

[emperior]

For my more substantive thoughts on it, you can go here.

I like your thoughts on the movie. I wholeheartedly agree with you about how the original creator of a serie is, ultimately, the only one who can really write it. Which is why I cringe when I read of people who want Toriyama out of Dragon Ball or, even worse, want Toyotaro the become the sole writer, which brings me to another point: while I liked your thoughts over the movie, I got to disagree with your mentions of Toyotaro being put almost on the same level as Toriyama, but I’ve come to know and respect your opinion of the manga, even though our opinions greatly differ over Toyotaro’s capabilities of drawing and writing Dragon Ball.

[Zelvin]

You know, technically Cheelai made 2 wishes.
1. "Save Broly!"
*shift back to fight a moment*
2. "And send him back to the world that he grew up on!"

"Save Broly" can be rather ambiguous as to how that's done. Could make Broly phase through the last attack, thus "saving" him, or removing his rage and thus "saving" him by stopping his rampage. And then gets teleported back to Vampa. But really, it is a non-issue. Just like how sometimes the characters in the movie say "Battle Power" and other times they say "Power Level", which I feel is either them mucking the script a bit or intentionally trolling the fans. It's fine either way because they mean the same thing.

[mahakaishin1991]

A few more saiyan names are turning up on Dragon ball wiki, so I guess we now have names for the remaining survivors who were shown in the movie with Nappa then?

[Diccolo-420]

Your entire argument is based off assumptions and leaps in logic which A. makes no sense B. does nothing to explain the inconsistency in writing. The only explanation that makes sense is Toriyama, like launch, forgot about it entirely, which is to be expected since his ability to write coherently has gone down consistently since the cell saga.

Good God, man.

1. It's called inference. Here's a site that should be pretty helpful to bring you up to speed with that stuff. Understanding the world's mechanics makes it clear what happened. Another tool you might find useful is that of Occam's Razor. Here's what we know:

i. When you use shenron, you have 3 wishes
ii. You can make a wish or two and save the other(s) for later
iiB) If you do this, the time it takes for the dragonballs to stop being inert is lessened

If Shenron shows up and then specifies he'll grant any 1 wish, then the logical assumption is someone already used up 2 wishes. It's that fucking simple, my dude.

2. You're objectively, provably wrong about the Launch thing. Stop propagating fandom misunderstandings and misgivings. There's absolutely no evidence that Toriyama forgot Launch existed at any point. Kanzenshuu isn't just a forum, dude. It's a resource. Use it. Before you go accusing the movie of plotholes where there are none, brush up on your own understanding of the material.

3. What is it with you armchair writers talking down Toriyama's ability when he proves time and time again that he's the only person who can write good Dragonball?

The audience shouldn't need to make these assumptions in order to fill the gaps, the logic of the narrative should sustain itself. That is proper writing, which Dragon Ball clearly lacks at this point

Wow. Really? This minor fucking point that nobody is talking about is the point that proves Toriyama is a hack and that this movie has a giant plothole. Really, dude?

Good writers don't explain everything. Not even Tolkien explained everything. Writers provide the rules of the world and you, the reader/viewer, can then use those rules to fill in whatever insignificant detail they don't tell you about. Do you also consider it a plothole when you don't see characters pooping or peeing onscreen? Do you need characters to go "Oh wow, I just pooped/peed which is why I haven't needed to all this time I've been onscreen~"

No, because you know bathrooms and such exist. Well, we know how the Dragonballs work, so we don't need time dedicated to explaining exactly why only 1 wish was left.

Find real things to critique about the movie, my man. This is my last reply to you on this subject.

Also, maybe get some perspective on the franchise. I did my best to explain a lot of what was going on this movie.

again its not about explaining everything its about having things make sense, which toriyama has failed at in recent years. I'd love to continue discussing this but if you're just going to throw ad hominem then there's no point

[majinwarman]

Why the hell do I see reviews saying that Broly promotes homophobia, racism, and bullying? Do people make shit up?

[Kinokima]

Why the hell do I see reviews saying that Broly promotes homophobia, racism, and bullying? Do people make shit up?

The bullying stance is just The fandom having some fun don’t take it seriously

The homophobia comes from this “wonderful” joke of a review .

https://rogersmovienation.com/2019/01/1 ... per-broly/

[DragonBallFoodie]

Managed to see the film.

Spoiler:

The film is half story, half action, but the story belongs to the first half and sets things up fairly well, with a prequel/flashback angle that explains the early history of Broly, and brings in the pre-Earth history of Goku and Vegeta. I didn’t see the previous Broly movies or the Bardock special, so I can’t compare them, but I think this film did these angles good enough.

Broly himself is an interesting character (for this film anyway). He, like Goku and Vegeta, is a formidable Saiyan warrior with great power sent to live in a harsh world. Unlike them, he had his father with him, which should be a blessing but isn’t because Paragus is too focused on avenging his past insults at the hands of Vegeta’s father, King Vegeta. Goku and Vegeta could escape their Saiyan past and forge new lives for themselves, but Broly cannot. The major story arc is him meeting new friends, and breaking free from his father’s control to forge a new identity for himself. It’s a simple but solid arc for Broly.

The issues of the past leads to Paragus teaming up with Frieza to hunt down Vegeta and Goku, culminates in a fight-packed second half. The animation goes all out with the action, with Broly, Vegeta and Goku going at each other in a battle that breaks a world and (briefly) smashes through time and space. It’s truly spectacular and epic to see the Saiyans whaling on each other, and completely worth watching the film. Broly’s transformation and Gogeta’s appearance are the highlights.

The Toriyama humor is good for the most part. Some jokes are not okay IMO, but as humor is generally subjective it’s nothing serious.

The film keeps Broly alive, and opens up his future appearance and involvement in a DB tale. New Saiyans are welcome to DB, and Broly as written by Toriyama has proven himself a good addition.

I think it’s a good enough watch for both fans and non-fans.

[Tian]

Why the hell do I see reviews saying that Broly promotes homophobia, racism, and bullying? Do people make shit up?

The bullying stance is just The fandom having some fun don’t take it seriously

The homophobia comes from this “wonderful” joke of a review .

https://rogersmovienation.com/2019/01/1 ... per-broly/

Hope that review is a just joke because if it isn't, it's the
shittiest thing I've read so far.

[MKCSTEALTH]

Just got back from the film. Absolutely insane! I loved every second of it! Here are some thoughts I had, for pros, cons, and just general things I noticed

Spoiler:

Pros:
-While I've been fairly neutral about Dragon Ball Minus, I absolutely loved the opening of this film. The added look into the history of the Saiyans was, for me at least, almost better than the fight scenes
-Adored Gine as a character
-Loved that the motivation of getting rid of Broly was kept consistent from the original movie
-Vampa is an interesting planet
-The new side characters of the Frieza Force were all fascinating, definitely better than what we got in Resurrection F
-The call backs to past events and characters was really nice, especially referencing Frieza's other forms

And now, this is all just me gushing about the fights:
-The choreography was amazing (most of the time)
-The fighting was just savage and brutal
-Loved the music during the fights
-Gogeta vs Broly is my new fav fight in Super thus far


Cons:
-A friend of mine made a comment about Broly that I feel I have to agree with: "He's still a ball of rage, but now with a heart" and I tend to agree. Broly on the ship and at the end was honestly really nice, but suddenly having that mindlessness was a bit of a shift for me
-The CGI during some of the fights unfortunately stuck out and not for good reasons
-While I loved the fight scenes, the shot of Goku vs Broly where it's a POV from Broly's perspective was really weird and wonky and took me a minute to realize what the hell was even going on
-The reason for the Dragonballs being collected, on both sides, were very silly. Bulma I get, as she's always been that vain. But Frieza wanting to just be taller by 5cm? Come on...
-The pacing towards the end of the film felt very off. We get a decent initial fight but as soon as Broly turns the arctic into a hellscape, it all felt very suddenly rushed. Suddenly its "Broly, your father is dead! Broly rages out, Goku and Vegeta teleport and fuse, Frieza gets the snot beat out of him, then BOOM Broly vs Gogeta, then we wrap up and go home" I wish it would have taken a bit of time to breath in all of that I suppose
-My biggest complaint: Broly's Full Power form. This is the form that made Broly iconic and I felt it was severely underutilized in the film. We see him rage out into Super Saiyan, then when he and Gogeta shatter through to a pocket dimension, he just suddenly blips green for no reason. He should have gone Full Power when Paragus was killed or at the very start of the fight against Gogeta, and make it a powerful moment. His charge up before the end of the fight (that we saw at the end of Trailer 3 and is currently my avatar) was beautiful, but I would've liked to have seen it sooner

General Observations:
-Young Raditz and Young Vegeta really bothered me. Raditz sounded like he hit puberty early, Vegeta was kind of whiny in that short scene, and honestly part of me was waiting for Nappa to go "But the good news is we're going to Dairy Queen!"
-The animation was astounding but inconsistent. There were moments where I feel like they lingered on shots that were not as well detailed as they should have been and scenes we barely see that have amazing detail to it
-The art style of the animations was very unique and something that we have not yet seen before. Vegeta having green hair before going Super Saiyan, or Goku going sort of UI before going Blue were very fascinating choices
-Baby-Sitting Beerus is probably my new favorite thing

Overall, I absolutely loved this movie and cannot wait for it to come out on home release so I can rewatch it again and again. And I hope for all that is holy, should Super return (it most likely will): please do not do an adaptation of the film. That would be a disservice to the movie.

Easily 9/10 for me. My new favorite Dragonball movie

[Spencer_23]

Loved the movie! Everything put a smile on my face. If they make an arc out of it with Super I hope they dive into the history aspect a lot

[MajinMan]

One thing I found out was that in the English dub, Paragus fears that Broly will die, but in the Japanese version, he fears that HE will die because of Broly. Just a weird mistranslation.

I loved the art and animation, but I wished the theater I went to would put the fucking volume up. I swear that shit was at like 10% volume. I could barely hear the music or sound effects sometimes. Surprisingly, the dialogue was still loud. Maybe it’s a dub thing and not the theaters fault, since I’ve seen other people complain about this too.

[fadeddreams5]

Hands down the best DB film.

It's interesting. This new Broly would have probably been best friends with Kid Gohan. I can just see that due to their natures; there's a lot of parallels there. Too bad Adult Gohan is one of the worst characters ever.

[Chibi Gohan]

I was able to see the movie yesterday and wow, what an experience. This is the best movie in the franchise on multiple levels. As someone who hated everything about the previous iteration of Broly, this rewrite really does the character justice and actually establishes a character that I care about.

The art and animation was top notch and not something I'm used to seeing for Dragon Ball. I don't think there's enough that can be said that could define how good this movie looks. With that being said, the CGI is a bit jarring at a moment or two, but still doesn't detract enough from the rest of the presentation.

The characters were spot on and it's honestly some of the most fleshed out characterization that I've seen in a piece of Dragon Ball media in a long time. There were some really great moments for multiple characters that fit well for who that character is.

The movie is fairly well constructed and offers multiple moments of payoff to something that occurred earlier. Dialogue for the most part was great and how the characters were animated in certain scenes added to their dialogue. I also appreciate the fact that the movie gives just enough exposition to establish it's points without going into too much detail, allowing the audience to fill in the blanks on their own using the information that's out there. I don't always need to see every little detail to be able to get a decent enough idea of what happened off screen.

I'm going to assume that the home release will have additional scenes, as there were a few moments where I noticed that a scene was probably cut.

[majinwarman]

Why the hell do I see reviews saying that Broly promotes homophobia, racism, and bullying? Do people make shit up?

The bullying stance is just The fandom having some fun don’t take it seriously

The homophobia comes from this “wonderful” joke of a review .

https://rogersmovienation.com/2019/01/1 ... per-broly/

Well, great to see such cultured people reviewing Dragon Ball.