I hear what you're saying but I feel it might bee more of Cheelai's internalized sexism from her culture, but going by Toriyama's humanoid rules male>female as far as physical strength, so who knows. I'll just say, Toriyama to that and move on.Shaddy wrote:I have, at multiple points, spoken about how it's not offensive to me personally. I'm calling attention to this stuff because it's good to be conscious of it, and you've decided that that means I'm "UwU so offended nasty XDDDD" because it supports the predetermined strawman you're trying to attack instead of my actual point. It's a weak argument on every conceivable scale. You're so obsessed with calling out anything I say as "overly PC trash" that you constantly overlook what any of it means, the same as that dumb exchange in the images thread. I keep using the word 'insecure' to describe you (besides the obvious) because this behavior is needlessly aggressive and incredibly defensive for no real reason, where a few terms just seem to set off some "HIT HIM WITH THE BUZZWORDS" switch in your brain or something.zarmack wrote: Your post just proved mine & supersaiyanZero's point. Anything to you that doesn't support/reflect PC 50/50 equality is "problematic" and offensive to you, which is exactly how "soyboys" think. It is your insecurity over reality that is shown every time you post about these things.
There are millions of works of fiction where there's not a huge gender gap in fighters. Even if the "psychological" thing is true (which uh, got a citation there buddy?) it doesn't mean anything when reality is such a non-factor on Dragon Ball in general, or when modern society is not focused on combat in the first place and thus any fantasy story where it's a central focus is already breaking a ton of physics restrictions in general.zarmack wrote:Besides, strength and combat isn't just a physical thing, its a mental thing too, and males are more psychologically geared into fighting and action than females are. Its a fact of nature, not a "greater social issue". That's why even in Sci-fi/Fantasy fiction, most of the warriors and tough people are male (unless its a series where warrior chicks are the main gimmick, like Dead or Alive).
And that's perfectly fine, I'm not complaining about the gender disparity in Dragon Ball, at least not in the way you're pretending I am. I'm saying that Toriyama's writing has leaned toward somewhat sexist for 3 decades, and that this line is just another demonstration to add to the pile. I'm not saying I hate the series or Toriyama for this. At no point have I implied any ill will to the man for this specific issue, only said that it exists, and it should be acknowledged. I'm not even saying Tori himself is sexist. I can't say that, I don't know the man, but I know some of the things he's written undeniably, unjustifiably, are. And even then, I'm not saying they've harmed anyone, just that people should pay attention to that stuff. I don't appreciate you trying to characterize this as some PC crusade on the series you have no more right to than I do.zarmack wrote: Authors are not obliged to make their fiction inclusive of all groups, especially when said groups for the most part don't give a damn (like most female fans of Shonen anime/manga). For example, if I'm watching a Bollywood film, I don't expect to see a bunch of white folks nor black folks in it (nor would I care if their are).
Freeza would probably be the one who chooses who he does and doesn't put in his army. Given that biological sex and fighting power in this series aren't necessarily related in any way, he would have no reason to not have had them mixed in with anyone else unless he viewed them as weaker and only did so because he's desperate.Extreme_kai wrote: I'm confused how this has anything to do with Freeza being a sexist. Cheelai was the one that made that statement, so it would be her undermining the strength of women. If Freeza felt women were wholly useless he would have had none in his army maybe opt for child soldiers or robots if he thought that poorly of them. I will agree with on you with Toriyama's writing of female characters, but he's an old Japanese guy, what are we expecting of him? I go into Dragon ball and know what I'm going to get. If I want good female writing I look elsewhere.
And I'm not saying this comes as any surprise, really. I'm not even saying there's much we can or should change about it, but I don't think it need be ignored regardless.
Also re: U6, they were forced up the ranks but it's not because of Suedom or gender but because Toriyama wrote the Tournament of Destroyers before the ToP, and didn't consider when saying "nobody in U6 has heard of super saiyan" that he'd need two more saiyans that were strong enough to rival Goku and Vegeta. He just needed something for Vegeta to teach cabba and decided on it being Super Saiyan. The guy doesn't think things through, it's hardly a secret.
Also yeah, 21 was made for people who liked this stuff, and possibly vore fetishists. Not that there isn't a place for that, but it is what it is.
I'm not in the camp that the female U6 Saiyan's were Sued because they are female, but thanks for clearing some things up. I knew it had to be for narrative purposes. I'm sure people wanted to see female super Saiyans but they could have easily made U6 know about the super Saiyan transformation prior.
As far as A21 goes, people can like her and vore as much as they like. As someone who draws disgusting lewd's in my spare time, I have no reason to judge. I just hate it when ppl are being disingenuous about her character. She was simply designed as Waifu bait and to have more females on the roaster, as simple as that. lol. Nothing is wrong with fan service, but I'm not going to lie to myself and pretend I like her as a character. It's a shame, given her back story she had a lot of potential, but no... They decided to go the overly sexed vixen route that most writers that don't know how to write interesting female characters do.