Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

Yamoshi never went God, only Super Saiyan. Goku was the actual first Super Saiyan God.

I just went back to watch the Shenron scene from the Battle of Gods arc, and I just realised that they got rid of the whole first Super Saiyan God story that was originally in the movie. That change and the inclusion of the Namekian Book of Legends makes me think that Toriyama's been developing this story for the upcoming movie for quite a while now.

[Dragon Wukong]

I like another Saiyan with a tail is coming back. With this and Shallot almost feels like Toriyama's enjoying drawing Saiyans with tails again.

Also, I imagine it's not Broly, but by god if the silhouette doesn't resemble him in base form in my opinion. Part of me almost wants to see how angry everyone would be if it was, but I really hope it's Yamoshi or someone else instead.

It certainly adds to the similarities what with the green aura and all though.

[miguelnuva1]

I'm in the club that hopes this saiyan just wants to fight Goku and isn't really evil. Goku has never fought someone that loves fighting like he does and can evolve in battle the same way.

[Chuquita]

Brolli would be a case of "I wouldn't be angry, I'd be disappointed". It'd also make poor Kale seem like an afterthought if the arc after they debut her as the canon Brolli of sorts they go and whip out the original Brolli but now he's canon somehow.
They'd have to rewrite Brolli's personality in order to make me be interested in him as a villain.

I'd also love to see how they have Toriyama write his way around what would very likely seem like a Toei movie plot of "Brolli 5: Brolli on Ice (again)" in his obligatory author comment.

[emperior]

Yamoshi is the first Super Saiyan, Goku is the first Super Saiyan God.

Nowhere was it ever said that Goku is the first Super Saiyan God. Freeza knew about the SSG in Dragon Ball Minus.

[Grimlock]

Also, removing the "Saiyan who transformed into Super Saiyan God before Goku" concept from the movie might also be a Toei thing, it doesn't mean that in Toriyama's eyes, that Movie 14's flashback was thrown out by the window.

We are very aware that Yamoshi didn't transform into Super Saiyan God, but there was indeed a Saiyan who achieved it prior to Goku. Hell, otherwise Beerus' dream wouldn't make much sense, he seemingly knew the name "Super Saiyan" and then remembered it with the actual name "Super Saiyan God" in the movie. I don't remember if this whole dream stuff remained in Toei's retelling.

[ArchedThunder]

Yamoshi is the first Super Saiyan, Goku is the first Super Saiyan God.

Nowhere was it ever said that Goku is the first Super Saiyan God. Freeza knew about the SSG in Dragon Ball Minus.

Toriyama explained the whole thing, Yamoshi was only the first Super Saiyan, he didn't become the Super Saiyan God and after he died his spirit went searching for pure hearted Saiyans. A Namekian Elder sympathized with his spirit and created the Super Saiyan God legend in the Namekian Book of Legends. Toriyama says that the "Super Saiyan God" that was mentioned in Battle of Gods was Yamoshi, but that he didn't actually go God.
Super Saiyan God was nothing more than a legend until Goku.

[sintzu]

Brolli would be a case of "I wouldn't be angry, I'd be disappointed".

Toriyama's designs are known to look like each other so it's very possible that whoever this new Saiyan is will look somewhat like Broly. We do know that Kale was introduced because of Broly's popularity so even if Toriyama doesn't introduce him in this movie, Toei will probably bring him back the minute he leaves the franchise so him coming back is only a matter of time.

Regardless of who this Saiyan is, Broly or not, what can he bring to the table that we haven't seen already ? We've got 11 unvierses with limitless potential yet they decide in one movie to bring back Freeza and to make a Saiyan story in the next one. The Saiyan/Freeza safe space the franchise won't leave is really holding it back.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Also, removing the "Saiyan who transformed into Super Saiyan God before Goku" concept from the movie might also be a Toei thing, it doesn't mean that in Toriyama's eyes, that Movie 14's flashback was thrown out by the window.

We are very aware that Yamoshi didn't transform into Super Saiyan God, but there was indeed a Saiyan who achieved it prior to Goku. Hell, otherwise Beerus' dream wouldn't make much sense, he seemingly knew the name "Super Saiyan" and then remembered it with the actual name "Super Saiyan God" in the movie. I don't remember if this whole dream stuff remained in Toei's retelling.

Actually, the Toriyama interview also explains Beerus's dream.

Beerus sensed Yamoshi's spirit while he was sleeping, which is why he had that dream of the SSG.

[emperior]

Yamoshi is the first Super Saiyan, Goku is the first Super Saiyan God.

Nowhere was it ever said that Goku is the first Super Saiyan God. Freeza knew about the SSG in Dragon Ball Minus.

Toriyama explained the whole thing, Yamoshi was only the first Super Saiyan, he didn't become the Super Saiyan God and after he died his spirit went searching for pure hearted Saiyans. A Namekian Elder sympathized with his spirit and created the Super Saiyan God legend in the Namekian Book of Legends. Toriyama says that the "Super Saiyan God" that was mentioned in Battle of Gods was Yamoshi, but that he didn't actually go God.
Super Saiyan God was nothing more than a legend until Goku.

This makes sense, you are right. This still doesn't explain how Freeza knew of the Super Saiyan God in Minus, though.

[Grimlock]

Toriyama says that the "Super Saiyan God" that was mentioned in Battle of Gods was Yamoshi, but that he didn't actually go God.
Super Saiyan God was nothing more than a legend until Goku.

Where Toriyama said Yamoshi was the one mentioned in Movie 14?

Also, In the movie, Shenlong says that those events occured in planet Vegeta, while in the interview, Toriyama says that Yamoshi story occurs before planet Vegeta was Saiyans' planet (in other words, Yamoshi story occured in planet Sadala). Clearly there had to be another Saiyan who transformed into Super Saiyan God.

Actually, the Toriyama interview also explains Beerus's dream.

Beerus sensed Yamoshi's spirit while he was sleeping, which is why he had that dream of the SSG.

Yeah, such a nonsense explanation slipped my mind.

[ArchedThunder]

Toriyama says that the "Super Saiyan God" that was mentioned in Battle of Gods was Yamoshi, but that he didn't actually go God.
Super Saiyan God was nothing more than a legend until Goku.

Where Toriyama said Yamoshi was the one mentioned in Movie 14?

Also, In the movie, Shenlong says that those events occured in planet Vegeta, while in the interview, Toriyama says that Yamoshi story occurs before planet Vegeta was Saiyans' planet (in other words, Yamoshi story occured in planet Sadala). Clearly there had to be another Saiyan who transformed into Super Saiyan God.

Was the “legendary Super Saiyan” Freeza feared the Super Saiyan God that appeared in Battle of Gods?

In a certain sense, they are the same person. That is to say, very long ago, before Planet Vegeta was the Saiyans’ planet, there was a man named Yamoshi who had a righteous heart despite being a Saiyan. He and his five comrades started a rebellion, but he was cornered by combatants and became a Super Saiyan for the first time, though his transformation and fearsome fighting style shocked the other Saiyans. Outnumbered, Yamoshi eventually wore himself out and was defeated, but this was only the beginning of his legend. Afterwards, Yamoshi’s spirit wandered in continuous search of six righteous-hearted Saiyans, seeking a new savior: Super Saiyan God.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... pecial-qa/
I don't remember exactly what Shenlong said in BoG, but if he mentioned Planet Vegeta by name then Toriyama has simply retconned that line.

This makes sense, you are right. This still doesn't explain how Freeza knew of the Super Saiyan God in Minus, though.

Who knows, maybe he came across someone who read the Namekian Book of Legends.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

With regards to Planet Sadala vs. Planet Vegeta, we have to remember that Yamoshi, the legendary Super Saiyan, died over Planet Sadala, the original home planet of the Saiyans.

It can still fit with the story of the original SSG that appeared over Planet Vegeta from the movie.

Whether or not all this will show up in the movie coming out at the end of the year, though? No one knows.

[Grimlock]

Was the “legendary Super Saiyan” Freeza feared the Super Saiyan God that appeared in Battle of Gods?

In a certain sense, they are the same person. That is to say, very long ago, before Planet Vegeta was the Saiyans’ planet, there was a man named Yamoshi who had a righteous heart despite being a Saiyan. He and his five comrades started a rebellion, but he was cornered by combatants and became a Super Saiyan for the first time, though his transformation and fearsome fighting style shocked the other Saiyans. Outnumbered, Yamoshi eventually wore himself out and was defeated, but this was only the beginning of his legend. Afterwards, Yamoshi’s spirit wandered in continuous search of six righteous-hearted Saiyans, seeking a new savior: Super Saiyan God.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... pecial-qa/

"In a certain sense", this is what must be emphasized. Because Yamoshi transformed into Super Saiyan and he gave origin to Super Saiyan God (while not transforming into it himself), this is the sense Toriyama meant. Not that Yamoshi transformed into Super Saiyan God and he was the one who appeared in Movie 14's flashback.

I don't remember exactly what Shenlong said in BoG, but if he mentioned Planet Vegeta by name then Toriyama has simply retconned that line.

We can't really treat it as a retcon until it gets clearer that it is a retcon. As far as we can tell, they're two different information that complement each other. Shenlong speaks "planet Vegeta" by name in the dub and an image of the planet Vegeta appears (which even if Shenlong hadn't spoken, that image would be enough).

[ArchedThunder]

Was the “legendary Super Saiyan” Freeza feared the Super Saiyan God that appeared in Battle of Gods?

In a certain sense, they are the same person. That is to say, very long ago, before Planet Vegeta was the Saiyans’ planet, there was a man named Yamoshi who had a righteous heart despite being a Saiyan. He and his five comrades started a rebellion, but he was cornered by combatants and became a Super Saiyan for the first time, though his transformation and fearsome fighting style shocked the other Saiyans. Outnumbered, Yamoshi eventually wore himself out and was defeated, but this was only the beginning of his legend. Afterwards, Yamoshi’s spirit wandered in continuous search of six righteous-hearted Saiyans, seeking a new savior: Super Saiyan God.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... pecial-qa/

"In a certain sense", this is what must be emphasized. Because Yamoshi transformed into Super Saiyan and he gave origin to Super Saiyan God (while not transforming into it himself), this is the sense Toriyama meant. Not that Yamoshi transformed into Super Saiyan God and he was the one who appeared in Movie 14's flashback.

I don't remember exactly what Shenlong said in BoG, but if he mentioned Planet Vegeta by name then Toriyama has simply retconned that line.

We can't really treat it as a retcon until it gets clearer that it is a retcon. As far as we can tell, they're two different information that complement each other. Shenlong speaks "planet Vegeta" by name in the dub and an image of the planet Vegeta appears (which even if Shenlong hadn't spoken, that image would be enough).

In a certain sense, in that the Super Saiyan God mentioned in Battle of Gods is Yamoshi, he just didn't actually go God. The story Shenlong tells is pretty clearly the story of Yamoshi, just with him going God instead of Super Saiyan.

[Grimlock]

The story Shenlong tells is pretty clearly the story of Yamoshi, just with him going God instead of Super Saiyan.

No, it isn't. Please stop ignoring information right in front of you. Again:

• Shenlong says that those events occured in planet Vegeta.
• Toriyama says that Yamoshi story occured in planet Sadala.

It's two different events that happened in different periods.

[ArchedThunder]

The story Shenlong tells is pretty clearly the story of Yamoshi, just with him going God instead of Super Saiyan.

No, it isn't. Please stop ignoring information right in front of you. Again:

• Shenlong says that those events occured in planet Vegeta.
• Toriyama says that Yamoshi story occured in planet Sadala.

It's two different events that happened in different periods.

And Toriyama is prone to forgetting things or just changing details.
Shenlong talking about a legend happening on Vegeta means nothing when this is Toriyama we're talking about. Super also removed that bit and replaced it with the Book of Legends bit that Toriyama expanded on in that interview. Toriyama says right there that "the Super Saiyan God that appeared in Battle of Gods" was Yamoshi.

[Grimlock]

And Toriyama is prone to forgetting things or just changing details.

I'm well aware of that but in this case, nothing even suggests it is a retcon, or Toriyama simply forgot and came up with similar concept. As anyone can see, it's two different information that fit with one another perfectly. Until they show what you are saying in the next movie, what I am saying is what we should stick with by now, because this is what have been passed to us.

Toriyama says right there that "the Super Saiyan God that appeared in Battle of Gods" was Yamoshi.

I already said what he meant by "in a certain sense", no need to repeat myself again. Yamoshi wasn't even alive by the time Saiyans moved to planet Plant, he was killed when he wore out.

[Mister_Popo]

After rewatching Shenlong's speech in BOG-movie, which is canon as Toriyama was deeply involved with the script of the movie more so than Super,and comparing that with what Toriyama told concerning the first SSJ, i see no conflicting information or retcons at the moment considering the original author's opinion.
Yamoshi lived way before the first actual SSJG appeared on planet Sadala, the Saiyan that used the power of SSJG on planet Vegeta used the power before Goku did and was the original SSJG, not Yamoshi. Yamoshi was the first one to become SSJ but never was SSJG, he created the power of SSJG by passing his spiritual power through the hearts of righteous Saiyans.

[Kakarot]

After rewatching Shenlong's speech in BOG-movie, which is canon as Toriyama was deeply involved with the script of the movie more so than Super,and comparing that with what Toriyama told concerning the first SSJ, i see no conflicting information or retcons at the moment considering the original author's opinion.
Yamoshi lived way before the first actual SSJG appeared on planet Sadala, the Saiyan that used the power of SSJG on planet Vegeta used the power before Goku did and was the original SSJG, not Yamoshi. Yamoshi was the first one to become SSJ but never was SSJG, he created the power of SSJG by passing his spiritual power through the hearts of righteous Saiyans.

I disagree. In the interview, Toriyama himself states that, "In a certain sense, they are the same person."