Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

[Amir]

agree. we don't know how strong Beerus really is. If you're looking at te manga he is clearly much stronger than SSJB Vegeta post Zamasu arc.

And also just a tiny bit stronger than the rest of the GoDs besides Belmod (not saying Belmod is stronger).

No disrespect. This too is headcannon. We don't know how much stronger Beerus is to other gods. Only official canonical source is that he and Quitela are close.

They all fought randomly and he got beat up while barely standing, Belmod stays a mystery since he pretended to be defeated - that should tell you enough. I feel like you jump to the headcanon blame too quickly. Not everything has to be clearly stated in specific words you know.
Also my bad I forgot to mention Quitela being on par with him.

[vashter]

I think goku last line what he told broly was probably a big fu to Jiren a little bit lol l, remember that toriyama wrote the movie

[ekrolo2]

But here Paragus kills a man to save food for him and his son, how is that not love for his child?

Plus his father's death is super saiyan trigger. You spoke of subtlety, well thats pretty subtle way of saying Broly loved his father.

Never said Paragus didn't care, I just think they're gonna make him too much of a bastard to sympathize with Broly.

Doesn't he beg not to kill him because he could be a valuable military recourse? Wasn't that his whole argument?
Also, his not particularly sympathetic, his revealed to be a complete evil moustache twirling villain by the end of the film, the main sympathies of the film are supposed to be the people that Paragus enslaved to set this whole thing up.

He uses that as an excuse to King Vegeta not to kill him, not THE reason why Paragus himself wants Broly to live. King Vegeta responds by sending the hitman to Broly anyway and leaving Paragus for dead. He loved his son, grew to realize he was a psychotic monster and whatever affection for him died away, leaving Paragus with nothing but revenge to keep him going. If you can't feel sympathy for a guy like that who got screwed over and twisted into a bastard on the level of King Vegeta, if not worse, than I really have nothing left to say.

[YamiGoku]

No insert song in movie, right?

Daichi Miura -「 Blizzard 」


you already can find the full version on youtube.

[JazzMazz]

King Vegeta never saw or particularly felt anything about what happened to Vegeta in pretty much every previous incarnation, so I have no idea where your getting this "as an extension of himself" idea from. Also, none of this contrast was bought to attention when comparing all three in the previous movies. King Vegeta appears once, and he doesn't do anything to constrast with Paragus as a father, same for Bardock.

That's false. Watch Dragon Ball Z #124; King Vegeta clearly wants Vegeta to succeed him and become the strongest he could possibly be. It's nothing too dissimilar from the King Vegeta here, but my problem is with Bardock, Broly and Paragus, not King Vegeta.

And I never said the contrast was brought to attention. I said that if they wanted to focus on the fathers of these three Saiyans, which this movie does, the potential dynamic offered by the original characterization of all these characters was far more interesting than what we have now.

Also, whose to say that Paragus is purely evil? Broly obviously cares about his father despite his fathers character flaws, to get immensely upset upon seeing him killed.

The fact that Broly is portrayed as a good boy who dindu nuffin and wouldn't hurt a housefly without the coercion of big, bad, meanie Paragus is enough to tell you that Broly only cares about his father because BROLY is that special and kind, not because Paragus has redeeming qualities. But again, I'll hold out for the movie on this point before saying it with conviction.

I mean, Paragus never really had that quality to begin with even in his original characterization, so I really don't see how Paragus is less loving now, especially since we haven't seen anything from him yet. Also, if Broly isn't a complete jackass, doesn't that also reflect on Paragus not being a complete monster himself as opposed to it being in spite of Paragus?

I don't particularly remember DBZ episode 124, but I do remember the flashback relating to his rebellion where he out right just states that he doesn't care if Vegeta lives or dies, he just cares about being in control.

Doesn't he beg not to kill him because he could be a valuable military recourse? Wasn't that his whole argument?
Also, his not particularly sympathetic, his revealed to be a complete evil moustache twirling villain by the end of the film, the main sympathies of the film are supposed to be the people that Paragus enslaved to set this whole thing up.

He uses that as an excuse to King Vegeta not to kill him, not THE reason why Paragus himself wants Broly to live. King Vegeta responds by sending the hitman to Broly anyway and leaving Paragus for dead. He loved his son, grew to realize he was a psychotic monster and whatever affection for him died away, leaving Paragus with nothing but revenge to keep him going. If you can't feel sympathy for a guy like that who got screwed over and twisted into a bastard on the level of King Vegeta, if not worse, than I really have nothing left to say.

That character is very ill formed and sudden in the prior Broly movies, not to mention, I think its going to be literally impossible to make Paragus more of an evil bastard than he was in movie 8, where he was literally a moustace twirling villain who enslaved an entire civilzation and killed people on a whim.

Yes, Paragus was wronged, but there was never any revealing qualities of him being inherently kind to Broly in the movie either, and his extremely villainous tendencies also make it hard for him to empathize with.

[Basaku]

I’d love for them to bring an SSJ4 type of form into the series. I hope they expand upon it. Ssj4 is one of the most loved forms in all of DB. Surely those money lovers up at Toei and Shueisha know this. They should take advantage of it.

Pretty much. And it's a great way to reintroduce it into the series - as in have Broly reach the form and teach other Saiyans (when possible). So much better than gods conviniently remembering it exists sometime later. The way to achieve it seems more fitting too - channel Oozaru energy while in human form and control it enough.

[ekrolo2]

I’d love for them to bring an SSJ4 type of form into the series. I hope they expand upon it. Ssj4 is one of the most loved forms in all of DB. Surely those money lovers up at Toei and Shueisha know this. They should take advantage of it.

Pretty much. And it's a great way to reintroduce it into the series - as in have Broly reach the form and teach other Saiyans (when possible). So much better than gods conviniently remembering it exists sometime later. The way to achieve it seems more fitting too - channel Oozaru energy while in human form and control it enough.

Don't they say Broly's Rage form is just Oozaru power in Base?

[sunsetshimmer]

Didn't thought about that. Broly's rage form indeed seems to be SSJ4-type of form, just without fur and much weaker obviously (considering Broly SSJ is stronger) having only Oozaru power in him. Although i doubt it has anything to do with SSJ4 appearing in future. Just a reference at best, maybe just coincidence.

[CTAkuma]

I’d love for them to bring an SSJ4 type of form into the series. I hope they expand upon it. Ssj4 is one of the most loved forms in all of DB. Surely those money lovers up at Toei and Shueisha know this. They should take advantage of it.

Pretty much. And it's a great way to reintroduce it into the series - as in have Broly reach the form and teach other Saiyans (when possible). So much better than gods conviniently remembering it exists sometime later. The way to achieve it seems more fitting too - channel Oozaru energy while in human form and control it enough.

Don't they say Broly's Rage form is just Oozaru power in Base?

Yes but his form looks like SS4 without fur, i mean it has yellow eyes and black spiky hair just like SS4.

[ekrolo2]

That character is very ill formed and sudden in the prior Broly movies, not to mention, I think its going to be literally impossible to make Paragus more of an evil bastard than he was in movie 8, where he was literally a moustace twirling villain who enslaved an entire civilzation and killed people on a whim.

Yes, Paragus was wronged, but there was never any revealing qualities of him being inherently kind to Broly in the movie either, and his extremely villainous tendencies also make it hard for him to empathize with.

He's willing to stand up to King Vegeta out of love and stick by his clearly dangerous, psychotic kid for years on end before he goes emotionally dead inside. For a Saiyan of planet Vegeta that's already a LOT more than fucking Bardock or King Vegeta do for theirs.

You can also sympathize with someone who does terrible things. Magneto is a Holocaust survivor and that doesn't make him justified in what he does later on in life but neither does it make it impossible to sympathize with him on some level.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Don't they say Broly's Rage form is just Oozaru power in Base?

The guy who wrote the summary wasn't sure if he remembered right but Paragus says that he believes Broly is using the Oozaru power and that is very hard to control. That last bit is what seems like a perfect setup for SSJ4 since the form is the saiyan actually controlling the Oozaru's destructive power and making it theirs.

[Shounen]

No insert song in movie, right?

Daichi Miura -「 Blizzard 」


you already can find the full version on youtube.

It's main theme (plays during credits only?), not insert song.

[JazzMazz]

That character is very ill formed and sudden in the prior Broly movies, not to mention, I think its going to be literally impossible to make Paragus more of an evil bastard than he was in movie 8, where he was literally a moustace twirling villain who enslaved an entire civilzation and killed people on a whim.

Yes, Paragus was wronged, but there was never any revealing qualities of him being inherently kind to Broly in the movie either, and his extremely villainous tendencies also make it hard for him to empathize with.

He's willing to stand up to King Vegeta out of love and stick by his clearly dangerous, psychotic kid for years on end before he goes emotionally dead inside. For a Saiyan of planet Vegeta that's already a LOT more than fucking Bardock or King Vegeta do for theirs.

You can also sympathize with someone who does terrible things. Magneto is a Holocaust survivor and that doesn't make him justified in what he does later on in life but neither does it make it impossible to sympathize with him on some level.

The difference is, as a villain, Magneto is a villain that has a layers to his motivations.

Paragus just turns into a moustache twirling bad guy that wants to conquer the universe for the LOL's.

[ekrolo2]

That character is very ill formed and sudden in the prior Broly movies, not to mention, I think its going to be literally impossible to make Paragus more of an evil bastard than he was in movie 8, where he was literally a moustace twirling villain who enslaved an entire civilzation and killed people on a whim.

Yes, Paragus was wronged, but there was never any revealing qualities of him being inherently kind to Broly in the movie either, and his extremely villainous tendencies also make it hard for him to empathize with.

He's willing to stand up to King Vegeta out of love and stick by his clearly dangerous, psychotic kid for years on end before he goes emotionally dead inside. For a Saiyan of planet Vegeta that's already a LOT more than fucking Bardock or King Vegeta do for theirs.

You can also sympathize with someone who does terrible things. Magneto is a Holocaust survivor and that doesn't make him justified in what he does later on in life but neither does it make it impossible to sympathize with him on some level.

The difference is, as a villain, Magneto is a villain that has a layers to his motivations.

Paragus just turns into a moustache twirling bad guy that wants to conquer the universe for the LOL's.

He is if you ignore literally everything I've said presented in the first Broly film. Which you have, on multiple occasions so far.

[JazzMazz]

He's willing to stand up to King Vegeta out of love and stick by his clearly dangerous, psychotic kid for years on end before he goes emotionally dead inside. For a Saiyan of planet Vegeta that's already a LOT more than fucking Bardock or King Vegeta do for theirs.

You can also sympathize with someone who does terrible things. Magneto is a Holocaust survivor and that doesn't make him justified in what he does later on in life but neither does it make it impossible to sympathize with him on some level.

The difference is, as a villain, Magneto is a villain that has a layers to his motivations.

Paragus just turns into a moustache twirling bad guy that wants to conquer the universe for the LOL's.

He is if you ignore literally everything I've said presented in the first Broly film. Which you have, on multiple occasions so far.

The first Broly movie shows him as a victim of Broly's madness, that much is true, however, there is no clear transition between when Paragus becomes an evil bastard and stops being a loving father, and its that clear division that just makes me think he never particularly cared about Broly beyond his power to begin with.

[BrolyKale]

The difference is, as a villain, Magneto is a villain that has a layers to his motivations.

Paragus just turns into a moustache twirling bad guy that wants to conquer the universe for the LOL's.

He is if you ignore literally everything I've said presented in the first Broly film. Which you have, on multiple occasions so far.

The first Broly movie shows him as a victim of Broly's madness, that much is true, however, there is no clear transition between when Paragus becomes an evil bastard and stops being a loving father, and its that clear division that just makes me think he never particularly cared about Broly beyond his power to begin with.

Paragus becomes a bastard once he puts that diadem on his son's forehead and realizes that with Broly's power he can do anything he wants.

[Doctor.]

mean, Paragus never really had that quality to begin with even in his original characterization, so I really don't see how Paragus is less loving now, especially since we haven't seen anything from him yet. Also, if Broly isn't a complete jackass, doesn't that also reflect on Paragus not being a complete monster himself as opposed to it being in spite of Paragus?

I'm not saying Paragus is less loving. I'm saying they're excessively presenting him as an evil bastard to make us sympathize with Broly. I don't need characters telling me in my face that Broly is being controlled by Paragus and that's a bad thing and poor little Broly he's such a tragic creature, I can see that very clearly.

Obviously it doesn't reflect on Paragus if Cheelye and Goku both think Paragus is a bad influence.

Yes, Paragus was wronged, but there was never any revealing qualities of him being inherently kind to Broly in the movie either, and his extremely villainous tendencies also make it hard for him to empathize with.

Spoiler:

Whether you believe the story was well presented or not, both the visuals and Paragus' monologues present a very clear story: the story of a man who loved his son, or at least was concerned for his well-being, and changed to see him as nothing more than a tool for revenge after witnessing his barbarism firsthand. The shot of Paragus holding Broly's hand as they're both about to die is more than enough to lay to rest this claim that Paragus didn't have any "revealing qualities of him being inherently kind to Broly."

[AnimeNation101]

I did some calculations.

If we assume the GT Files timeline is still legit and the Saiyans landed on Planet Plant in age 550 but they took over starting at age 720 and whole “the last SSJ was seen 1000 years ago” thing is BS and Planet Plant was the very next Planet the saiyans landed on after Sadala’s destruction/the Civil War/Yamoshi vs the Evil Saiyans (which makes sense as we never hear of any other planets related to the saiyans besides Sadala and Vegeta), and the flight from Sadala to Planet Plant took less than 100 years, AND we assume every King Vegeta lived to at least 100 years, then that means that at least Vegeta the First was on Sadala possibly during the event of its destruction and survived it which kept the Vegeta bloodline going.

A lot of what ifs.

[Miracles]

Well done fellas. You were right about Gogeta being in the movie.

[zarmack]

What is stupid in this movie thats done better in the first Broly movie.

Because it sounds to me personally that:

Dbs Broly’s character and motive > M8 Broly’s character and motive

DBS Paragus > M8 Paragus

DBS Movie fights >>>> M8 Fight

Flashback content >>> M8 Flashback content

Dbs motives of villains >>> M8 motives of villains

And hell, its not a Goku movie this time but instead Vegeta gets as much shine and even the ending is way less predictable than the M8 ending was.


Anyone mad about plot and using this movie’s seemingly lack of it as an excuse to lower it compared to other dbz movies should remember that no other DB movies really had as much plot either. I’d say B.O.G has the most plot and it seems as though the Broly movie is around that level.

Broly will probably be more than a hulking psycho but I don't trust them to not make DBS Broly anything but vomit inducingly modern Shonen when he's not a screaming retard.

M8 Paragus is a fantastic character already and much like with Broly, I don't trust them not to destroy whatever subtlety there was so we can make pouw wittle Bwoly look more sympathetic.

They'll probably look more visually bombastic, that's for sure but the 8th film actually has a lot of quiet moments in it, lots of atmosphere to the proceedings which I'm finding more appreciation for over big, sakuga bombast.

The flashback content of Super Broly is Dragon Ball Minus + extra shit, that alone makes it worse than testicular electrocution, much less M8s flashbacks.

Freeza's motive is the stupidest thing Toriyama's shat out since Resurrection F, Paragus has the same motive as before and Broly's not a generic psycho so you're a third of the way right?

I mean, Nagamine is a director that is known for using silence in his films.
Judging by his direction of Film Z, I wouldn’t really be worried about that film lacking those subtle moments or specific atmosphere.

Also, Freeza’s motive is good. Like, it’s perfectly in character, while allowing them to do something fresh with him beyond his typical “unlimited power” routine.

Since when has Freeza ever been interested in his height? Since when was Freeza a gag character in general? It's a stupid, out-of-character motive.