Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:41 pm

Ah, so Super Saiyan Blue will be a drain on stamina again. That's one way to keep Super Saiyan God relevant and prevent Gokuu and Vegeta from jumping to new forms too quickly.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Super Saiyan Swagger » Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:54 pm

So Bulma's outfit is actually winter gear, yet we see her wearing it at that volcanic area. Makes me think that instead of it being a change of location, it's actually that arctic location except completely decimated by Broly.

The battle with Broly is looking to be just one huge fight rather than several encounters. I hope that there will be some proper breathing room between action scenes so that it doesn't get repetitive. I trust Nagamine so I'm not too worried about it.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Chuquita » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:03 am

But if Brolli destroys this arctic area (presuming it's at one of the poles) wouldn't that cause immense flooding across DB Earth? Or maybe if it wouldn't be brought up.
Makes me think of the fact that when Kamesennin destroys the moon the first time that it has actual repercussions (though gag-related) in the form of Man-Wolf at the tournament.

On blue and stamina...I really enjoy ssjg Goku, but because I really enjoy him I don't have the urge to need any reasoning as to why Goku's in ssjg instead of ssjblue, but whatever.

On Bulma and wishing for youth...you know, sure. Why not. Vegeta gets to be perpetually in his prime until he's 80 so I can see Bulma wanting to not feel like she's left behind (on that note I can see even Goku being tempted into a wish to keep himself from hitting that big aging hump at 80 so he can stay in his prime and continue to see how strong he can get).
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:09 am

This is just plain stupid.. And pisses me off. Blue never had these stamina issues before. And Blue at this point is weak as fuck! Especially considering they’ve been spamming Blue KAIOKEN, aswell as Blue EVOLUTION in the Tournament of Power. Even after completely “depleting” all their stamina and energy, even nearly dying in Vegeta’s case. Still spammed the Evo form without much trouble. And now they are trying to tell us that Blue is too draining? Toei just choses whatever best suits their plot purposes. They want to have their cake and eat it too. This is unacceptable and deserves and needs to be critisized.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by StardustCrusaderX » Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:46 am

Doctor. wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:Image

Beerus is the object of Vegeta's obsession the same way I'm Batman.
I'm guessing this is the Toriyama paper napkin continuity where SSB keeps having stamina problems even though those have been long solved 2 arcs ago in the anime and manga.
You know, I've always tried my hardest to ignore folks that say there is no canon in dragonball since we wouldn't have gotten to the point we're at now with the series. But with how Toriyama just changes things on the fly now to make way for new stories, (if we can really call this one a new story) i'm starting to see why they say that now. I found a quote which describes the way I feel about modern dragonball. ("Modern Dragon Ball is pretty much the definition of "fluid continuity". That annoys me but I do accept it.")

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by TheOne » Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:54 am

zarmack wrote:At this point, I'm convinced that most of what made DB(Z) great came from Toriyama's editors rather than the man himself.

Why is he still using the stamina thing for SSB? Hasn't Goku and Vegeta gotten over that in both the manga and anime? Both of them were using CSSB in the ToP with no stamina issues, and Goku and Vegeta were using SSB against damn near everybody in the ToP anime. Its like Toriyama doesn't even read his own work and nobody at Toei or Shueisha is there to call him out on his nonsense.
So basically you want a transformation with no drawbacks whatsoever? Gotcha.

Everything has a price. Ask steroid users.

One thing we do agree on is that Goku and Vegeta spammed the crap out of SSB in the tournament. Completely unnecessary. There’s one thing that I LOVED about GT. Goku would do SSJ occasionally, but SSJ3 came much later on when he actually needed the power. Now unfortunately Goku spammed ssj4 against some of the shadow dragons, but it’s not nearly as bad as Super.
How i predict the tournament will end:

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by TheOne » Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:19 am

Chuquita wrote:But if Brolli destroys this arctic area (presuming it's at one of the poles) wouldn't that cause immense flooding across DB Earth? Or maybe if it wouldn't be brought up.
Makes me think of the fact that when Kamesennin destroys the moon the first time that it has actual repercussions (though gag-related) in the form of Man-Wolf at the tournament.

On blue and stamina...I really enjoy ssjg Goku, but because I really enjoy him I don't have the urge to need any reasoning as to why Goku's in ssjg instead of ssjblue, but whatever.

On Bulma and wishing for youth...you know, sure. Why not. Vegeta gets to be perpetually in his prime until he's 80 so I can see Bulma wanting to not feel like she's left behind (on that note I can see even Goku being tempted into a wish to keep himself from hitting that big aging hump at 80 so he can stay in his prime and continue to see how strong he can get).
Toei couldn’t even keep their power scaling organize.

Do you honestly expect them to think about small details concerning the artic area and flooding?
How i predict the tournament will end:

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by zarmack » Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:52 am

TheOne wrote:
zarmack wrote:At this point, I'm convinced that most of what made DB(Z) great came from Toriyama's editors rather than the man himself.

Why is he still using the stamina thing for SSB? Hasn't Goku and Vegeta gotten over that in both the manga and anime? Both of them were using CSSB in the ToP with no stamina issues, and Goku and Vegeta were using SSB against damn near everybody in the ToP anime. Its like Toriyama doesn't even read his own work and nobody at Toei or Shueisha is there to call him out on his nonsense.
So basically you want a transformation with no drawbacks whatsoever? Gotcha.

Everything has a price. Ask steroid users.

One thing we do agree on is that Goku and Vegeta spammed the crap out of SSB in the tournament. Completely unnecessary. There’s one thing that I LOVED about GT. Goku would do SSJ occasionally, but SSJ3 came much later on when he actually needed the power. Now unfortunately Goku spammed ssj4 against some of the shadow dragons, but it’s not nearly as bad as Super.
SSB was supposed to have perfect Ki control (that's why Goku was able to mix it with Kaioken, and why him and Vegeta could spam it all that much), that's why Toriyama all of a sudden forcing in a stamina weakness is complete nonsense. Even in the manga, the whole stamina weakness thing was only brought up once and was completely thrown away after reaching CSSB. It makes no sense for Toriyama to force it back in now.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:19 am

TheOne wrote:
zarmack wrote:At this point, I'm convinced that most of what made DB(Z) great came from Toriyama's editors rather than the man himself.

Why is he still using the stamina thing for SSB? Hasn't Goku and Vegeta gotten over that in both the manga and anime? Both of them were using CSSB in the ToP with no stamina issues, and Goku and Vegeta were using SSB against damn near everybody in the ToP anime. Its like Toriyama doesn't even read his own work and nobody at Toei or Shueisha is there to call him out on his nonsense.
So basically you want a transformation with no drawbacks whatsoever? Gotcha.

Everything has a price. Ask steroid users.

One thing we do agree on is that Goku and Vegeta spammed the crap out of SSB in the tournament. Completely unnecessary. There’s one thing that I LOVED about GT. Goku would do SSJ occasionally, but SSJ3 came much later on when he actually needed the power. Now unfortunately Goku spammed ssj4 against some of the shadow dragons, but it’s not nearly as bad as Super.
What’s wrong with wanting a peerless form for our hero? I can’t wait until Goku fully masters Ultra Instinct on the same level he mastered Super Saiyan back in the Cell Arc. Now if you’re not fine with that, than why are you fine with Whis being as perfect as he is? (I assume that’s the case here) because i never see people complaining about Whis being perfect in every way, but whenever Goku gets something OP like UI, then suddenly fans want to nerf him..

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by TheOne » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:30 am

GodVegetto91 wrote:
TheOne wrote:
zarmack wrote:At this point, I'm convinced that most of what made DB(Z) great came from Toriyama's editors rather than the man himself.

Why is he still using the stamina thing for SSB? Hasn't Goku and Vegeta gotten over that in both the manga and anime? Both of them were using CSSB in the ToP with no stamina issues, and Goku and Vegeta were using SSB against damn near everybody in the ToP anime. Its like Toriyama doesn't even read his own work and nobody at Toei or Shueisha is there to call him out on his nonsense.
So basically you want a transformation with no drawbacks whatsoever? Gotcha.

Everything has a price. Ask steroid users.

One thing we do agree on is that Goku and Vegeta spammed the crap out of SSB in the tournament. Completely unnecessary. There’s one thing that I LOVED about GT. Goku would do SSJ occasionally, but SSJ3 came much later on when he actually needed the power. Now unfortunately Goku spammed ssj4 against some of the shadow dragons, but it’s not nearly as bad as Super.
What’s wrong with wanting a peerless form for our hero? I can’t wait until Goku fully masters Ultra Instinct on the same level he mastered Super Saiyan back in the Cell Arc. Now if you’re not fine with that, than why are you fine with Whis being as perfect as he is? (I assume that’s the case here) because i never see people complaining about Whis being perfect in every way, but whenever Goku gets something OP like UI, then suddenly fans want to nerf him..
Nothings wrong with wanting that. But getting it is ridiculous. Back when Goku mastered Super Saiyan, he wasn’t able to live in that form. Only being able to build up the endurance to stay in it longer. There is still some form of strain on his body, even with the whole Super Saiyan upgrade in the Cell arc. To imply that SSJ was mastered to a point where he’d never have to be at base again, is absolutely silly.

You know why I’m fine with Whis being perfect? Because he’s an ANGEL and Goku is just a saiyan. Two completely different species. Seriously, if there was one species I would choose to be stronger than a Saiyan, it’s a freaking Angel. Yeah I get Gokus your hero, but heaven forbid that there are creations out there such as Angels that are essentially flawless (or so we are to believe).
How i predict the tournament will end:

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by TheOne » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:36 am

zarmack wrote:
TheOne wrote:
zarmack wrote:At this point, I'm convinced that most of what made DB(Z) great came from Toriyama's editors rather than the man himself.

Why is he still using the stamina thing for SSB? Hasn't Goku and Vegeta gotten over that in both the manga and anime? Both of them were using CSSB in the ToP with no stamina issues, and Goku and Vegeta were using SSB against damn near everybody in the ToP anime. Its like Toriyama doesn't even read his own work and nobody at Toei or Shueisha is there to call him out on his nonsense.
So basically you want a transformation with no drawbacks whatsoever? Gotcha.

Everything has a price. Ask steroid users.

One thing we do agree on is that Goku and Vegeta spammed the crap out of SSB in the tournament. Completely unnecessary. There’s one thing that I LOVED about GT. Goku would do SSJ occasionally, but SSJ3 came much later on when he actually needed the power. Now unfortunately Goku spammed ssj4 against some of the shadow dragons, but it’s not nearly as bad as Super.
SSB was supposed to have perfect Ki control (that's why Goku was able to mix it with Kaioken, and why him and Vegeta could spam it all that much), that's why Toriyama all of a sudden forcing in a stamina weakness is complete nonsense. Even in the manga, the whole stamina weakness thing was only brought up once and was completely thrown away after reaching CSSB. It makes no sense for Toriyama to force it back in now.
Since when did Ki Control mean that you have unlimited Ki to use at your disposal? I’m serious. If I missed the memo please let me know. Because what you guys are implying is that SSB is just like being in base. It takes absolutely no effort whatsoever to stay in, which shouldn’t be the case. That’d be ludicrous.
How i predict the tournament will end:

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Miracles » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:53 am

StardustCrusaderX wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:Image

Beerus is the object of Vegeta's obsession the same way I'm Batman.
I'm guessing this is the Toriyama paper napkin continuity where SSB keeps having stamina problems even though those have been long solved 2 arcs ago in the anime and manga.
You know, I've always tried my hardest to ignore folks that say there is no canon in dragonball since we wouldn't have gotten to the point we're at now with the series. But with how Toriyama just changes things on the fly now to make way for new stories, (if we can really call this one a new story) i'm starting to see why they say that now. I found a quote which describes the way I feel about modern dragonball. ("Modern Dragon Ball is pretty much the definition of "fluid continuity". That annoys me but I do accept it.")
Super Saiyan Blue stamina issues is plastered through out the anime and manga. So how is Toriyama bringing it in this movie not continuity?

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:21 am

TheOne wrote:
GodVegetto91 wrote:
TheOne wrote:
So basically you want a transformation with no drawbacks whatsoever? Gotcha.

Everything has a price. Ask steroid users.

One thing we do agree on is that Goku and Vegeta spammed the crap out of SSB in the tournament. Completely unnecessary. There’s one thing that I LOVED about GT. Goku would do SSJ occasionally, but SSJ3 came much later on when he actually needed the power. Now unfortunately Goku spammed ssj4 against some of the shadow dragons, but it’s not nearly as bad as Super.
What’s wrong with wanting a peerless form for our hero? I can’t wait until Goku fully masters Ultra Instinct on the same level he mastered Super Saiyan back in the Cell Arc. Now if you’re not fine with that, than why are you fine with Whis being as perfect as he is? (I assume that’s the case here) because i never see people complaining about Whis being perfect in every way, but whenever Goku gets something OP like UI, then suddenly fans want to nerf him..
Nothings wrong with wanting that. But getting it is ridiculous. Back when Goku mastered Super Saiyan, he wasn’t able to live in that form. Only being able to build up the endurance to stay in it longer. There is still some form of strain on his body, even with the whole Super Saiyan upgrade in the Cell arc. To imply that SSJ was mastered to a point where he’d never have to be at base again, is absolutely silly.

You know why I’m fine with Whis being perfect? Because he’s an ANGEL and Goku is just a saiyan. Two completely different species. Seriously, if there was one species I would choose to be stronger than a Saiyan, it’s a freaking Angel. Yeah I get Gokus your hero, but heaven forbid that there are creations out there such as Angels that are essentially flawless (or so we are to believe).
Well as perfect as it gets for Goku. Even if he can’t stay an unlimited amount of time in Ultra Instinct. But he’s able to remain transformed for a few days (or heck even for as long as he’s awake and goes to sleep) it’s still pretty perfected in my book. Also, what’s wrong with Goku being in perfect shape when he could still just as easily lose to someone who is simply too strong for him? There will always be enemies stronger than Goku as Mr. Popo once wisely said. With that “limitation” always out there for him, there’s no reason why he shouldn’t be allowed to fully master a perfect combat form and be in the greatest possible shape. If he’s got that, i’m fine, since Goku will basically be “complete” as far as forms and techniques, stamina issues etc goes. And than he can simply increase his battle power the old fashion way through training, battles, zenkais etc. You get the point.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Issei189 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:41 am

zarmack wrote:At this point, I'm convinced that most of what made DB(Z) great came from Toriyama's editors rather than the man himself.

Why is he still using the stamina thing for SSB? Hasn't Goku and Vegeta gotten over that in both the manga and anime? Both of them were using CSSB in the ToP with no stamina issues, and Goku and Vegeta were using SSB against damn near everybody in the ToP anime. Its like Toriyama doesn't even read his own work and nobody at Toei or Shueisha is there to call him out on his nonsense.
What do you mean his own work ? AT didn't create CSSB and neither did he do storyboards for those episodes where Goku spammed SSB. SSB still has stamina issues in the anime and it was never resolved.

In ep 98, Whis mentioned that SSB drains their stamina heavily, so if anything Toei ignored consistency and implemented it poorly.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:19 am

I've now slept on it and I think everyone needs to just breathe. We haven't seen the film and it's just mentioned under "super rumour". Let's see how things actually play out before we start questioning Toriyama. He always deserves the benefit of the doubt.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:54 am

You know, I kinda want to see Goku and Vegeta fight Beerus nar the beginning, if only to establish that without Ultra Instinct, they aren't at that level yet.

It'd be a good way to highlight their growth as they take on Broly, as well as contrast the third fated Saiyan's own growth as he quickly grows as he fights and showcase him potentially getting up to or even surpassing the level of the Gods of Destruction.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by vashter » Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:16 am

Why is everyone in here getting butt hurt over Ssb stamina? Lol just stop there already mention it drain stamina

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by BlueBasilisk » Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:25 am

TheOne wrote: Since when did Ki Control mean that you have unlimited Ki to use at your disposal? I’m serious. If I missed the memo please let me know. Because what you guys are implying is that SSB is just like being in base. It takes absolutely no effort whatsoever to stay in, which shouldn’t be the case. That’d be ludicrous.
People mix up ki control and stamina a lot for some reason. SSB does have perfect ki control, which is why Goku is able to use Kaioken without killing himself, but it's stated in the same episode that SSB takes a toll on stamina which is why he hadn't used it yet.The stamina issue is built into the explanation of how god ki works in episode 22. Goku says that it's physically demanding to use that kind of energy control.

For what it's only ever said that SSG uses less stamina than Blue too. I thought he might have perfected SS3 for a while since the drain hadn't been mentioned in Super, but nope, that came up again in...113?

A similar explanation was used for Golden Frieza. He didn't train the form in Resurrection F so it was eating up his ki and stamina at an alarming rate. Goku and Vegeta did train with god ki/SSB in Whis' time staff room so they were able to outlast him. Then he did something similar while in hell, working on his energy control for a year or more and he was able to make Golden Frieza far more useable but it still used stamina as seen when he complained about using it against SS2 Cabba or when he started to crap out against Jiren and Dyspo.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Konja7 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:39 am

GodVegetto91 wrote:This is just plain stupid.. And pisses me off. Blue never had these stamina issues before. And Blue at this point is weak as fuck! Especially considering they’ve been spamming Blue KAIOKEN, aswell as Blue EVOLUTION in the Tournament of Power. Even after completely “depleting” all their stamina and energy, even nearly dying in Vegeta’s case. Still spammed the Evo form without much trouble. And now they are trying to tell us that Blue is too draining? Toei just choses whatever best suits their plot purposes. They want to have their cake and eat it too. This is unacceptable and deserves and needs to be critisized.
It has been mentioned sometimes in the anime that Super Saiyan Blue has stamina issues (and Super Saiyan God drains less stamina), this was never resolved in the anime.

In the manga, it's mentioned that Blue drains stamina too, it was resolved on the manga. I guess the movie (and Toriyama) doesn't follow the manga on this.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Doctor. » Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:50 am

Konja7 wrote:
GodVegetto91 wrote:This is just plain stupid.. And pisses me off. Blue never had these stamina issues before. And Blue at this point is weak as fuck! Especially considering they’ve been spamming Blue KAIOKEN, aswell as Blue EVOLUTION in the Tournament of Power. Even after completely “depleting” all their stamina and energy, even nearly dying in Vegeta’s case. Still spammed the Evo form without much trouble. And now they are trying to tell us that Blue is too draining? Toei just choses whatever best suits their plot purposes. They want to have their cake and eat it too. This is unacceptable and deserves and needs to be critisized.
It has been mentioned sometimes in the anime that Super Saiyan Blue has stamina issues (and Super Saiyan God drains less stamina), this was never resolved in the anime.

In the manga, it's mentioned that Blue drains stamina too, it was resolved on the manga. I guess the movie (and Toriyama) doesn't follow the manga on this.
It was never 'resolved' but Goku and Vegeta still pop into Blue more often than any other form, so it's not like Toei ever gave a shit about the supposed stamina problems the form is meant to have.

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