How strong is Jiren compared to Beerus?

[buutenks]

How can it be impossible to tell. Whis outright says there is a mortal among the 12 universe that is more powerful than the GoDs. The end.

Allot of people doubted Jiren is the mortal, and kept saying it might be the one from quitela's universe, since quitela is acting so confident. Even tho Jiren was already hyped and then confirmed he is the mortal above the GoDs.

And people should stop wanking Beerus, we saw in the manga how he compares to other GoDs. he is slightly above most apart from Quitela and Belmod(who was smart enough to just play possum). All GoDs r very close to each other going by the manga, plus the anime fight between the 3 GoDs kinda showed that also. BP wise they are very close, just they skills varies.

Battle power wise Jiren>the GoDs.

Can you be more specific with the first statement? Same tier of power could mean a lot. My guess is that you mean they are more or less even, but my translation of "same tier" is that they can simply hurt each other but there are GoDs who are superior/inferior to the rest with a rough hierarchy of power. I think of it like those tournaments in DB, maybe the final one to be exact. If they had a free for all like this, you'd probably get a similar result with Krillin, Yamcha, Tao, and Shen (maybe throw in King Piccolo and Roshi for the hell of it) all getting some good hits in that could cause some good damage to an unsuspecting Piccolo and Goku, but in the end those two would wind up as the last two standing because they are far superior to the rest. That's the tier I see Beerus and the other GoDs being in, but clearly he and Quitela are the Piccolo and Goku of that tier, at least in the manga. I don't see Jiren as above ALL the GoDs, just Belmod, but the anime has given enough evidence to consider it.

I mean they are very close BP wise. hence Jiren is above all the GoDs.

My personal prediction is that Jiren's power is equal to Beerus and the other destroyer deities at the absolute weakest and equal to Whis and the other guide angels at the absolute strongest, weaker than the Grand Priest at any rate. In other words, on the 6-10-15 scale, he'd be somewhere from a 10 at weakest to a 15 at strongest. I won't make any concrete judgments on where his power stands until I see how its full extent is eventually portrayed in the manga.

The manga shows the GoDs r very close BP wise, the anime shows this also. The angels are shown to be able to ko a GoD with a simply karate chop while being suppressed. Also, it seems all angels are also close Bp wise.

So it is basically:
Tier 0= Grand Priest
Tier 1=Angels(with slight variations)
Tier 2= Jiren
Tier 3=GoDs(with slight variations)

[Lord Beerus]

How can it be impossible to tell. Whis outright says there is a mortal among the 12 universe that is more powerful than the GoDs. The end.

Whis doesn't say that. He states that there exists a mortal in one of the universe that the universe's Hakaishin can't defeat. And the Hakaishin in question that Jiren could overpower, is apparently stronger than Beerus. But according to Beerus, he only lost to that Hakaishin in question in an arm wrestling match. So whether the Hakaishin that Jiren can defeat is truly stronger than Beerus in all departments is left ambiguous.

[Black Hawk]

How can it be impossible to tell. Whis outright says there is a mortal among the 12 universe that is more powerful than the GoDs. The end.

Whis never stated Jiren to be more powerful than a destroyer deity; he referred to Jiren as the mortal a destroyer deity cannot defeat; I'm not saying that Jiren isn't stronger than a destroyer deity but, rather, that there is more to battle than strength or battle power, as we've seen demonstrated throughout the series.

Battle power wise Jiren>the GoDs.

The manga shows the GoDs r very close BP wise, the anime shows this also. The angels are shown to be able to ko a GoD with a simply karate chop while being suppressed. Also, it seems all angels are also close Bp wise.

Agreed, as Top stated Jiren's battle power to exceed Belmod's, whose battle power likely does not differ much from Beerus', Champa's, or any other destroyer deity's.

So it is basically:
Tier 0= Grand Priest
Tier 1=Angels(with slight variations)
Tier 2= Jiren
Tier 3=GoDs(with slight variations)

I'm going to wait until the manga shows us the full extent of Jiren's power before I apply an actual number, but my prediction is indeed, for the most part, in alignment with what you have stated. Jiren is likely somewhere from a 10 to a 15 on the 6-10-15 scale, slightly exceeding a destroyer deity at the weakest and equaling the guide angels at the strongest.

[WittyUsername]

I’m guessing he’s either stronger than Beerus, or slightly weaker than him. All we know for sure is that he’s stronger than Belmod.

[RedShift]

I really don't see how there is this much back & forth on this subject. All we know is that -by rumor- Belmond cannot defeat Jiren in combat. We also get Whis' brief observation on Jirens power during the battle with Goku. Whis is obviously one of the more reliable narrators, but all he says is that Jiren has reached the state of a GoD, perhaps surpassed it. We don't know how powerful the various GoD's are in comparison to one another, nor do we know by what margin and through what means Jiren can defeat Belmond.

Short answer? We don't know.

[Pannaliciour]

In te anime:

Whis: There is a mortal that his GoD can't defeat him and that GoD is stronger then Beerus. (FACT)

Beerus: I only lost in a armwrestling match

Problem 1: Why would would Whis mention stronger then Beerus if Beerus lost only in a armwrestling (a armwrestling doesn't say anything how strong you are in battle)

Possible answer:

1) Beerus is lying to protect his pride, you can see that in his behavior when he said that sensehell
2) Or Beerus is downplaying the situatie to minimizes his lost against this GoD.
3)Beerus doesn't know wich GoD Whis is referring to!
4) the Anime is going to a different road then the manga with this armwrestling.

Conclusion: Whis statement > Beerus statement, especially seeing his lying history.

Problem 2: against who did Beerus lost in a Armwrestling. The Manga is clear about this: its the U4 GoD. But we all know that U4 will not have this Mortal. Because its Jiren and Jiren is in U11> therefore Beerus statement can't be applied anymore.

In the anime it isn't clear against who Beerus lost in a armwrestling. But we do know that he DIDN'T lost against U4 GoD because the Mortal isn't in the U4. BUT if he THINKS Whis is referring to U4 GoD then he might had his armwrestling against the U4 GoD.

Conclusion; Beerus CAN'T defeat Jiren!

But can Jiren defeat Beerus? The manga (Toppo) said he has a higher battle power then Belmod. The anime (Whis) said Jiren might even be above GoD (jiren not a full power). So Jiren is above GoD and because Beerus is a GoD, Jiren is stronger then Beerus and therefore can defeat Beerus.

Beerus isn't anything different then the others GoD's cause he is your favourite character.

[Elvis143BRA]

As far as we know, Jiren doesn't even have Ultra Instinct. Beerus can use UI whenever he wants, so I don't see why Jiren could even harm Beerus.

[Polyphase Avatron]

In te anime:

Whis: There is a mortal that his GoD can't defeat him and that GoD is stronger then Beerus. (FACT)

Beerus: I only lost in a armwrestling match

Problem 1: Why would would Whis mention stronger then Beerus if Beerus lost only in a armwrestling (a armwrestling doesn't say anything how strong you are in battle)

Possible answer:

1) Beerus is lying to protect his pride, you can see that in his behavior when he said that sensehell
2) Or Beerus is downplaying the situatie to minimizes his lost against this GoD.
3)Beerus doesn't know wich GoD Whis is referring to!
4) the Anime is going to a different road then the manga with this armwrestling.

Conclusion: Whis statement > Beerus statement, especially seeing his lying history.

Option 5: Whis was just teasing Beerus, like he so often does.

[WittyUsername]

I really don't see how there is this much back & forth on this subject. All we know is that -by rumor- Belmond cannot defeat Jiren in combat. We also get Whis' brief observation on Jirens power during the battle with Goku. Whis is obviously one of the more reliable narrators, but all he says is that Jiren has reached the state of a GoD, perhaps surpassed it. We don't know how powerful the various GoD's are in comparison to one another, nor do we know by what margin and through what means Jiren can defeat Belmond.

Short answer? We don't know.

If I recall correctly, Toppo in the manga did explicitly state that Jiren is physically more powerful than Belmond.

[Pannaliciour]

As far as we know, Jiren doesn't even have Ultra Instinct. Beerus can use UI whenever he wants, so I don't see why Jiren could even harm Beerus.

How do you know he has it? Ohh je mean did Whis said that? Didn't he also say Jiren> GoD (Beerus)?

Goku had UI? Didn't do a dam thing and Jiren was supressed

[RedShift]

I really don't see how there is this much back & forth on this subject. All we know is that -by rumor- Belmond cannot defeat Jiren in combat. We also get Whis' brief observation on Jirens power during the battle with Goku. Whis is obviously one of the more reliable narrators, but all he says is that Jiren has reached the state of a GoD, perhaps surpassed it. We don't know how powerful the various GoD's are in comparison to one another, nor do we know by what margin and through what means Jiren can defeat Belmond.

Short answer? We don't know.

If I recall correctly, Toppo in the manga did explicitly state that Jiren is physically more powerful than Belmond.

True, but the Manga =/= anime. They're treated as separate (albeit similar) stories.

[Pannaliciour]

In te anime:

Whis: There is a mortal that his GoD can't defeat him and that GoD is stronger then Beerus. (FACT)

Beerus: I only lost in a armwrestling match

Problem 1: Why would would Whis mention stronger then Beerus if Beerus lost only in a armwrestling (a armwrestling doesn't say anything how strong you are in battle)

Possible answer:

1) Beerus is lying to protect his pride, you can see that in his behavior when he said that sensehell
2) Or Beerus is downplaying the situatie to minimizes his lost against this GoD.
3)Beerus doesn't know wich GoD Whis is referring to!
4) the Anime is going to a different road then the manga with this armwrestling.

Conclusion: Whis statement > Beerus statement, especially seeing his lying history.

Option 5: Whis was just teasing Beerus, like he so often does.

Goku asked him something very important. The stake of the universe depends on it. Whis didn't teas Beerus, but he is letting the viewers know how strong Jiren is.

Why is it so hard to understand that Beerus can't beat Jiren and that Jiren is stronger then Beerus? The manga (indirectly) and anime have stated this. So why would a human being(using common sense) ARGUE against that?!

Besides Beerus was shitting his pants when Jiren release little of his Ki.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Logically Jiren should wipe him out with minimal effort, but I suppose we'll just have to wait and see.

[BWri]

How can it be impossible to tell. Whis outright says there is a mortal among the 12 universe that is more powerful than the GoDs. The end.

Allot of people doubted Jiren is the mortal, and kept saying it might be the one from quitela's universe, since quitela is acting so confident. Even tho Jiren was already hyped and then confirmed he is the mortal above the GoDs.

And people should stop wanking Beerus, we saw in the manga how he compares to other GoDs. he is slightly above most apart from Quitela and Belmod(who was smart enough to just play possum). All GoDs r very close to each other going by the manga, plus the anime fight between the 3 GoDs kinda showed that also. BP wise they are very close, just they skills varies.

Battle power wise Jiren>the GoDs.

The problem with that statement is that we don't know for sure if all the GoDs are very close PL wise. Hell, the way the fight started was ALL GoD vs Beerus and Beerus didn't even flinch when it came to doing battle with them all. Well, isn't that already evidence that Beerus >> all other GoDs? I'm being hyperbolic, but that's what it looks like when you use minute feats to make broad statements. We don't know how close the GoDs are in relation to one another, only that they can damage each other in a battle royale setting. We don't know how they'd fair in one on one fights, but do to his showings, I'd say Beerus would likely still be the tournament's victor 1v1, barring powerful special abilities, of course. I say that due to the narrative setup we're given showing Beerus vs. All and Beerus' performance in the end. So to me if Beerus can outperform Belmod and Jiren is stronger than Belmod, then we simply have a really good debate on our hands with no clear victor at this point. I only give Beerus the nod because like Jiren, he is a measuring stick for Goku, but unlike Jiren, Beerus is not fighting in this current arc. Therefore, I would think that Toriyama still wants to use him as a measuring stick and the manga has left this possibility open.

All GoDs r very close to each other going by the manga, plus the anime fight between the 3 GoDs kinda showed that also. BP wise they are very close, just they skills varies.

There's simply no way of knowing that for sure at this point. We had a big fight between them all in a battle royale setting in the manga. In the anime three of them fought, and we have no context as to how strong either of them is in comparison to Beerus. I would assume they're stronger than him because they are from higher level universes, but it would be a baseless assumption since the show has given us no hint either way.

[BWri]

In te anime:

Whis: There is a mortal that his GoD can't defeat him and that GoD is stronger then Beerus. (FACT)

Beerus: I only lost in a armwrestling match

Problem 1: Why would would Whis mention stronger then Beerus if Beerus lost only in a armwrestling (a armwrestling doesn't say anything how strong you are in battle)

Possible answer:

1) Beerus is lying to protect his pride, you can see that in his behavior when he said that sensehell
2) Or Beerus is downplaying the situatie to minimizes his lost against this GoD.
3)Beerus doesn't know wich GoD Whis is referring to!
4) the Anime is going to a different road then the manga with this armwrestling.

Conclusion: Whis statement > Beerus statement, especially seeing his lying history.

Option 5: Whis was just teasing Beerus, like he so often does.

Goku asked him something very important. The stake of the universe depends on it. Whis didn't teas Beerus, but he is letting the viewers know how strong Jiren is.

Why is it so hard to understand that Beerus can't beat Jiren and that Jiren is stronger then Beerus? The manga (indirectly) and anime have stated this. So why would a human being(using common sense) ARGUE against that?!

Because there's enough evidence to cast doubt on that assumption. Jiren > Belmod (anime and manga), Beerus > Belmod (manga), Belmod > Beerus (a murky possibility in the anime). So in the anime, which has previously shown to have a fairly incoherent power scale and which has introduced concepts to bloat the scale even further, there is a strong (but not definite) chance that Jiren is stronger than Beerus. No character has specifically said that Jiren > Beerus and Beerus hasn't stated Jiren to be superior to himself, neither has Whis. Toyotaro, who has a much more conservative and consistent power scale has implied that Beerus & Quitela are the top dogs amongst the GoDs, which puts Beerus above Belmod in some way. Not sure by how much, though it could easily mean that Beerus is simply better at conserving stamina or surviving in these settings. But at face value, in the manga Beerus > Belmod and Jiren > Belmod, and since the manga rarely, if ever contradicts itself like the anime which has a team of revolving door writers, I choose to take the manga scaling more seriously until something definitive shows itself.

Besides Beerus was shitting his pants when Jiren release little of his Ki.

More evidence that tips the scale in the favor of anime Jiren being stronger than anime Beerus. It's a fairly damning piece of evidence too, but still not definitive. Could've been a reaction to a mortal having a power close to his. That alone would doom his universe, since Goku and Vegeta are still below Beerus which is much more definitive in the manga with Beerus schooling FPSSB Vegeta with minimal effort.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Beerus freaked out at a lot of the fighters in the ToP, because he was worried they would beat his team, not himself.

[Pannaliciour]

Beerus freaked out at a lot of the fighters in the ToP, because he was worried they would beat his team, not himself.

When they powered up? Or when they showed a special ability? Big difference. And he said how can one person possess that many ki + scare face + sweating = not only worried about team but also knowing that Jiren could be that mortal.

And lets not forget, Whis was also commenting about his power.

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

While I'm fairly confident that Jiren is stronger than Beerus, Lord Beerus has a point.

[Pannaliciour]

Option 5: Whis was just teasing Beerus, like he so often does.

Goku asked him something very important. The stake of the universe depends on it. Whis didn't teas Beerus, but he is letting the viewers know how strong Jiren is.

Why is it so hard to understand that Beerus can't beat Jiren and that Jiren is stronger then Beerus? The manga (indirectly) and anime have stated this. So why would a human being(using common sense) ARGUE against that?!

Because there's enough evidence to cast doubt on that assumption. Jiren > Belmod (anime and manga), Beerus > Belmod (manga), Belmod > Beerus (a murky possibility in the anime). So in the anime, which has previously shown to have a fairly incoherent power scale and which has introduced concepts to bloat the scale even further, there is a strong (but not definite) chance that Jiren is stronger than Beerus. No character has specifically said that Jiren > Beerus and Beerus hasn't stated Jiren to be superior to himself, neither has Whis. Toyotaro, who has a much more conservative and consistent power scale has implied that Beerus & Quitela are the top dogs amongst the GoDs, which puts Beerus above Belmod in some way. Not sure by how much, though it could easily mean that Beerus is simply better at conserving stamina or surviving in these settings. But at face value, in the manga Beerus > Belmod and Jiren > Belmod, and since the manga rarely, if ever contradicts itself like the anime which has a team of revolving door writers, I choose to take the manga scaling more seriously until something definitive shows itself.

Besides Beerus was shitting his pants when Jiren release little of his Ki.

More evidence that tips the scale in the favor of anime Jiren being stronger than anime Beerus. It's a fairly damning piece of evidence too, but still not definitive. Could've been a reaction to a mortal having a power close to his. That alone would doom his universe, since Goku and Vegeta are still below Beerus which is much more definitive in the manga with Beerus schooling FPSSB Vegeta with minimal effort.

Lolll. Nobody said that the Grand Priest was stronger then Yamcha. Nobody said ssj 1 is stronger then kaio ken. But it is common sense!! They don't have to SPECIFICALLY tell the viewer that Jiren>Beerus. Whis said (pre top) GoD (that IS stronger then Beerus) can't defeat Jiren (rumour) then when he saw his strength (post top) he said he might even be above GoD level (supressed). AGAIN, WHY ARE WE STILL ARGUING.

Look: (in dbz words) if person A can't be defeated by person B and person B is stronger then person C, then this tells us that:

1)C wil lose against B
2)Also C automatically lose against A
3) that A is as strong OR stronger then B (not weaker)

If A appears to be above B then he is stronger then B, not equal any more (plain and simple)

A= Jiren
B=Belmouth
C=Beerus

[Kaiosama]

Beerus can use UI although he hasn't mastered it yet, AND he has a much higher battle power than Goku and Vegeta. I don't see how the narrative would make sense to give Goku and Vegeta that much of a boost to have them surpass the GoDs in order to beat Jiren. It's way too much power creep in a short time, especially if Goku is able to master UI in freaking 30 minutes where as Beerus still hasn't been able to despite having been a GoD for millions of years. Honestly FP UI should be the end goal. Where do you go after that?