^^This too, especially this! It's kinda what I'm trying to say, at least part of it. I don't think they'd skip over one measuring stick that the characters have yet to be shown to surpass in order to promote a brand new measuring stick. That's why I think there's more to Beerus that they aren't telling us. Right now the narrative focus is on Jiren so he's getting some good feats and good statements, but they've left a door wide open to have an excuse for Beerus to still be stronger than Jiren and still a proper measuring stick for Goku and Vegeta, which'll likely be him having raw strength over them and UI. I definitely think it's too soon for them to have closed the gap in power AND for Goku to have learned UI. If Goku surpasses this monster gap in a single tournament and masters UI, then the pacing of his progress will feel utterly ridiculous. If they were going to have him surpass Beerus like this, he might as well have done it during one of the previous arcs, like U6 in the anime when he busted out KKx10 or later when he busted out KKx20.Kaiosama wrote:Beerus can use UI although he hasn't mastered it yet, AND he has a much higher battle power than Goku and Vegeta. I don't see how the narrative would make sense to give Goku and Vegeta that much of a boost to have them surpass the GoDs in order to beat Jiren. It's way too much power creep in a short time, especially if Goku is able to master UI in freaking 30 minutes where as Beerus still hasn't been able to despite having been a GoD for millions of years. Honestly FP UI should be the end goal. Where do you go after that?
Pannaliciour wrote: Lolll. Nobody said that the Grand Priest was stronger then Yamcha. Nobody said ssj 1 is stronger then kaio ken. But it is common sense!! They don't have to SPECIFICALLY tell the viewer that Jiren>Beerus.
Good point, but for there not to be a debate on this, they do have to outright say that "Jiren is stronger than Beerus" or the evidence has to be overwhelming in Jiren's favor. The evidence is not overwhelming in Jiren's favor yet. There is a strong case for him in the anime, but again, not definitive. In the manga it is a legitimate even sided debate as to who's stronger.
*edit, To be more specific, as long as Beerus' power remains undefined there is no way to definitively end this debate or speculation as to who is stronger than who. Beerus power is undefined for narrative reasons and because of that he is outside of the other GoD. There appears to be a general GoD tier of power, but of course those there would fluctuate in power. It's not the GoD communism tier after all. Even in the anime, one can infer that some GoD are weaker than other, as Sidra seems rather impressed and frightened by characters that are base god tier. Even the manga there's an even bigger case of PL disparity between the GoD. Not all GoD are made the same
Whis said (pre top) GoD (that IS stronger then Beerus) can't defeat Jiren (rumour)
Yeah, in an arm wrestling match, which doesn't prove a lot. It doesn't even make a lot of sense, since Beerus arm wrestling rival appears to be two different characters between the anime and manga. That to me just screams that its one of those details that one of Toei's many writers added in for some strange reason that they'll cover up or not address later. It's just odd so I don't put a lot of stock into it. If the statement were the same in both mediums, then yes it's more evidence in Jiren's favor.
Because there's something to debate until definitively stated otherwise. From what I've seen of the other GoD. Beerus is on a whole other level than the rest, except for maybe Quitela. I believe he'll remain Goku's measuring stick once this arc is over. That seems to be his role, even if Toriyama has to retcon previous statements to do it.then when he saw his strength (post top) he said he might even be above GoD level (supressed). AGAIN, WHY ARE WE STILL ARGUING.
I have to point out something people are jumping to conclusions with.
