Super Saiyan Royal Blue Vegeta

[HeroR]

Even though Toppo was beating Vegeta before the boost, the power difference between them was not great, Vegeta still managed to hold the fight.

And Vegeta just wanted to give Toppo an attack that he could not destroy with Hakai.
Vegeta did not kill himself, he just used all his power, and that power overcame Toppo's power.

On EP 127, after defending Vegeta's punch, Jiren says he understood why Vegeta was able to beat Toppo, confirming that he is actually stronger than Toppo.

Jiren was also facing Goku, but he did not say anything. It seems he did not feel that Goku could do the same thing.

Anyway, I think Vegeta Royal Blue is stronger than Goku SSB KK x20. If we consider that in EP 123 the two were on the same level, but in EP 126 Vegeta got stronger, so he naturally outlasted Goku.

It was great enough for Toppo to dominate that fight until Vegeta 'pride boosted' again. And it makes no sense for Vegeta to used an attack that wasted most of his energy if he could have beaten Toppo without it, unless he was freaking idiot since he still had Jiren to deal with who was bouncing him when he was far more fresh.

He confirmed Vegeta's strength, he didn't really acknowledged until that point since he didn't even see him worthy enough to KO after he finished dumping Hit. Compared to Goku which had his the god U11 seek him personally on him.

Vegeta got a pride boost and he lasted longer overall since Goku had stamina issues since 110, while Vegeta in comparison only started fighting hard in 122. Goku also fight more people even when low on stamina like the U6 Saiyans and U2, while Vegeta was playing with Toppo with neither of them being serious and then him playing with the U3 cop.

Final Explosion is not a suicide attack now. Vegeta is able to use it without dying, and he did it with Toppo.

So I do not understand why you keep saying "he almost had to kill himself to beat Toppo" when that attack is no longer suicidal, he just used all his power. And with all his power, he overcame Toppo, that's simple.

I also feel that you keep saying '' pride boost '', as if this were a temporary boost or something.
But Jiren basically says '' I understand how you managed to defeat Toppo '' after defending Vegeta's punch, he is confirming that Vegeta> Toppo through that speech.

Vegeta used this technique because he wanted to give Toppo an attack that he could not destroy, he says so.
That does not change the fact that Vegeta is stronger than Toppo

But what are you trying to prove mate?

SSBKK Goku was at the very best on par with Toppo during the exhibition match. And it was Toppo before becoming a Hakaishin, so far far weaker than his future self.

Vegeta at least has some feat proving that he is above SSBKK Goku.

And I don't know why is so hard for you to swallow at all. Don't worry, Mastered UI Goku is far beyond new Vegeta's form so you don't have to worry about Vegeta being stronger or even equal to Goku.

Your boy Goku is still superior. Now you can calm down.

Goku beat Toppo up with just Blue before he even used the Kaioken. Toppo didn't even touched Goku. So who do you know that Toppo was par with Blue Kaioken at full power.

Saying Vegeta is above Goku based on how he dealt with Toppo is like saying that Tien during the Cell Saga was above the Super Saiyans since he pinned down Semi-Perfect Cell who stomped the androids.

Please keep your conceding attitude and come up with a feat with Vegeta that didn't involved him using a technique that allowed him to hit beyond his limit.

No, Toppo has hit Goku several times, look at this picture

Goku was slightly superior to Toppo with SSB, and Toppo had not released all his power.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Not to mention that he resisted a Kamehameha, despite having been left with some scratches

Used it without dying, but still drained his precious stamina, which is kind of importance since he still wanted to fight Jiren. And yes, it was almost kill himself just like Tien almost always pushes himself using his Tri-Beam. And if he didn't need the Final Explosion to over power Toppo, why did he used it when he was punching Haki. Also it's funny you keep quoting the "wanted to give Toppo an attack that he could not destroy", while he was literally punching Toppo's Haki balls.

It is a temp, unless you think Vegeta will forever get stronger when his pride is wounded. And no, using a Final Explosion type move doesn't make Vegeta stronger, otherwise we have to say Tien was stronger than Super Piccolo and Android 16 in the Cell Saga since he pushed down Semi-Perfect Cell.

I don't count punching in a fast pace scuffled as much as anything, especially when all of Toppo's power blows got dodged by Goku. Goku was more than slightly superior when Goku actually stomped on Toppo faces and grinded him into the floor.

And the Kamehameha isn't even the best Kamehameha Goku has done. It isn't like he tried to Merged Zamasu Toppo. But my point is that Toppo being equal to Blue Kaioken is a fan theory. Not helped that Golden Freeza hurt Toppo. If he was twice as strong as Golden Freeza, since Freeza equalled Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku, he should have shrugged off Freeza's blasts like Cell.

[TheSaiyanGod]

It was great enough for Toppo to dominate that fight until Vegeta 'pride boosted' again. And it makes no sense for Vegeta to used an attack that wasted most of his energy if he could have beaten Toppo without it, unless he was freaking idiot since he still had Jiren to deal with who was bouncing him when he was far more fresh.

He confirmed Vegeta's strength, he didn't really acknowledged until that point since he didn't even see him worthy enough to KO after he finished dumping Hit. Compared to Goku which had his the god U11 seek him personally on him.

Vegeta got a pride boost and he lasted longer overall since Goku had stamina issues since 110, while Vegeta in comparison only started fighting hard in 122. Goku also fight more people even when low on stamina like the U6 Saiyans and U2, while Vegeta was playing with Toppo with neither of them being serious and then him playing with the U3 cop.

Final Explosion is not a suicide attack now. Vegeta is able to use it without dying, and he did it with Toppo.

So I do not understand why you keep saying "he almost had to kill himself to beat Toppo" when that attack is no longer suicidal, he just used all his power. And with all his power, he overcame Toppo, that's simple.

I also feel that you keep saying '' pride boost '', as if this were a temporary boost or something.
But Jiren basically says '' I understand how you managed to defeat Toppo '' after defending Vegeta's punch, he is confirming that Vegeta> Toppo through that speech.

Vegeta used this technique because he wanted to give Toppo an attack that he could not destroy, he says so.
That does not change the fact that Vegeta is stronger than Toppo

Goku beat Toppo up with just Blue before he even used the Kaioken. Toppo didn't even touched Goku. So who do you know that Toppo was par with Blue Kaioken at full power.

Saying Vegeta is above Goku based on how he dealt with Toppo is like saying that Tien during the Cell Saga was above the Super Saiyans since he pinned down Semi-Perfect Cell who stomped the androids.

Please keep your conceding attitude and come up with a feat with Vegeta that didn't involved him using a technique that allowed him to hit beyond his limit.

No, Toppo has hit Goku several times, look at this picture

Goku was slightly superior to Toppo with SSB, and Toppo had not released all his power.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Not to mention that he resisted a Kamehameha, despite having been left with some scratches

Used it without dying, but still drained his precious stamina, which is kind of importance since he still wanted to fight Jiren. And yes, it was almost kill himself just like Tien almost always pushes himself using his Tri-Beam. And if he didn't need the Final Explosion to over power Toppo, why did he used it when he was punching Haki. Also it's funny you keep quoting the "wanted to give Toppo an attack that he could not destroy", while he was literally punching Toppo's Haki balls.

It is a temp, unless you think Vegeta will forever get stronger when his pride is wounded. And no, using a Final Explosion type move doesn't make Vegeta stronger, otherwise we have to say Tien was stronger than Super Piccolo and Android 16 in the Cell Saga since he pushed down Semi-Perfect Cell.

I don't count punching in a fast pace scuffled as much as anything, especially when all of Toppo's power blows got dodged by Goku. Goku was more than slightly superior when Goku actually stomped on Toppo faces and grinded him into the floor.

And the Kamehameha isn't even the best Kamehameha Goku has done. It isn't like he tried to Merged Zamasu Toppo. But my point is that Toppo being equal to Blue Kaioken is a fan theory. Not helped that Golden Freeza hurt Toppo. If he was twice as strong as Golden Freeza, since Freeza equalled Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku, he should have shrugged off Freeza's blasts like Cell.

Vegeta just used all his energy (or not, because in the next EP he manages to transform without problems), he not almost kill himself or anything of the kind.
Vegeta himself tells Toppo that he would make an attack that he could not destroy. He already knew that Toppo would be unable to stop the Final Explosion

That does not change the fact that Vegeta was totally dominating Toppo before the Final Explosion. Vegeta did not 'need' to use it, he used it because he wanted to.
That is, script.

You're saying that Vegeta's boost is temporary, but that does not make any sense. Without this boost, Vegeta is inferior to Toppo. So, according to you, after the Final Explosion, Vegeta should be weaker than Toppo because he would not have the boost anymore, but Jiren himself confirms that Vegeta is stronger.

It does not matter if you did not consider the punches with '' fast-paced '', they exist
And I did not say that the Kamehameha that Goku used against Toppo was the strongest, but he was not weak either.

I also did not say that Toppo was SSB KK level, but that is yes possible (after all, Daishinkan says one of the two could die in the fight and Goku was with the Kaioken).
Toppo was distracted by the 17 attack and Freeza caught him from behind.
Toppo supposed to be SSB level KK does not mean that Freeza can not damage it just like Goku SSB did

[HeroR]

Final Explosion is not a suicide attack now. Vegeta is able to use it without dying, and he did it with Toppo.

So I do not understand why you keep saying "he almost had to kill himself to beat Toppo" when that attack is no longer suicidal, he just used all his power. And with all his power, he overcame Toppo, that's simple.

I also feel that you keep saying '' pride boost '', as if this were a temporary boost or something.
But Jiren basically says '' I understand how you managed to defeat Toppo '' after defending Vegeta's punch, he is confirming that Vegeta> Toppo through that speech.

Vegeta used this technique because he wanted to give Toppo an attack that he could not destroy, he says so.
That does not change the fact that Vegeta is stronger than Toppo



No, Toppo has hit Goku several times, look at this picture

Goku was slightly superior to Toppo with SSB, and Toppo had not released all his power.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Not to mention that he resisted a Kamehameha, despite having been left with some scratches

Used it without dying, but still drained his precious stamina, which is kind of importance since he still wanted to fight Jiren. And yes, it was almost kill himself just like Tien almost always pushes himself using his Tri-Beam. And if he didn't need the Final Explosion to over power Toppo, why did he used it when he was punching Haki. Also it's funny you keep quoting the "wanted to give Toppo an attack that he could not destroy", while he was literally punching Toppo's Haki balls.

It is a temp, unless you think Vegeta will forever get stronger when his pride is wounded. And no, using a Final Explosion type move doesn't make Vegeta stronger, otherwise we have to say Tien was stronger than Super Piccolo and Android 16 in the Cell Saga since he pushed down Semi-Perfect Cell.

I don't count punching in a fast pace scuffled as much as anything, especially when all of Toppo's power blows got dodged by Goku. Goku was more than slightly superior when Goku actually stomped on Toppo faces and grinded him into the floor.

And the Kamehameha isn't even the best Kamehameha Goku has done. It isn't like he tried to Merged Zamasu Toppo. But my point is that Toppo being equal to Blue Kaioken is a fan theory. Not helped that Golden Freeza hurt Toppo. If he was twice as strong as Golden Freeza, since Freeza equalled Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku, he should have shrugged off Freeza's blasts like Cell.

Vegeta just used all his energy (or not, because in the next EP he manages to transform without problems), he not almost kill himself or anything of the kind.
Vegeta himself tells Toppo that he would make an attack that he could not destroy. He already knew that Toppo would be unable to stop the Final Explosion

That does not change the fact that Vegeta was totally dominating Toppo before the Final Explosion. Vegeta did not 'need' to use it, he used it because he wanted to.
That is, script.

You're saying that Vegeta's boost is temporary, but that does not make any sense. Without this boost, Vegeta is inferior to Toppo. So, according to you, after the Final Explosion, Vegeta should be weaker than Toppo because he would not have the boost anymore, but Jiren himself confirms that Vegeta is stronger.

It does not matter if you did not consider the punches with '' fast-paced '', they exist
And I did not say that the Kamehameha that Goku used against Toppo was the strongest, but he was not weak either.

I also did not say that Toppo was SSB KK level, but that is yes possible (after all, Daishinkan says one of the two could die in the fight and Goku was with the Kaioken).
Toppo was distracted by the 17 attack and Freeza caught him from behind.
Toppo supposed to be SSB level KK does not mean that Freeza can not damage it just like Goku SSB did

I highly doubt Vegeta got a prement boost from his pride being hurt since it never happened before and no claimed it did.

Didn’t need to used it, but did it anyway wasting his precious stamina when Jiren was still in the ring and bodying. So, you’re saying Vegeta was a dumbass. And the epsoide when Vegeta exploded Beerus outright said Vegeta burn through his energy. Why would he be stronger?

So did Vegeta to Cell and the attacked did nothing. Cell got distracted because he stupidly turned towards Vegeta.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

So, if I might try to move the conversation to other avenues....

Theoretically speaking, Goku should be able to achieve this Limit Breaking Blue form himself, right?

If he could, AND he could stack Kaioken on top of it...... Well, let's just be glad that Toei decided to give him the Ultra Instinct to put him over Vegeta instead

[TheSaiyanGod]

Used it without dying, but still drained his precious stamina, which is kind of importance since he still wanted to fight Jiren. And yes, it was almost kill himself just like Tien almost always pushes himself using his Tri-Beam. And if he didn't need the Final Explosion to over power Toppo, why did he used it when he was punching Haki. Also it's funny you keep quoting the "wanted to give Toppo an attack that he could not destroy", while he was literally punching Toppo's Haki balls.

It is a temp, unless you think Vegeta will forever get stronger when his pride is wounded. And no, using a Final Explosion type move doesn't make Vegeta stronger, otherwise we have to say Tien was stronger than Super Piccolo and Android 16 in the Cell Saga since he pushed down Semi-Perfect Cell.

I don't count punching in a fast pace scuffled as much as anything, especially when all of Toppo's power blows got dodged by Goku. Goku was more than slightly superior when Goku actually stomped on Toppo faces and grinded him into the floor.

And the Kamehameha isn't even the best Kamehameha Goku has done. It isn't like he tried to Merged Zamasu Toppo. But my point is that Toppo being equal to Blue Kaioken is a fan theory. Not helped that Golden Freeza hurt Toppo. If he was twice as strong as Golden Freeza, since Freeza equalled Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku, he should have shrugged off Freeza's blasts like Cell.

Vegeta just used all his energy (or not, because in the next EP he manages to transform without problems), he not almost kill himself or anything of the kind.
Vegeta himself tells Toppo that he would make an attack that he could not destroy. He already knew that Toppo would be unable to stop the Final Explosion

That does not change the fact that Vegeta was totally dominating Toppo before the Final Explosion. Vegeta did not 'need' to use it, he used it because he wanted to.
That is, script.

You're saying that Vegeta's boost is temporary, but that does not make any sense. Without this boost, Vegeta is inferior to Toppo. So, according to you, after the Final Explosion, Vegeta should be weaker than Toppo because he would not have the boost anymore, but Jiren himself confirms that Vegeta is stronger.

It does not matter if you did not consider the punches with '' fast-paced '', they exist
And I did not say that the Kamehameha that Goku used against Toppo was the strongest, but he was not weak either.

I also did not say that Toppo was SSB KK level, but that is yes possible (after all, Daishinkan says one of the two could die in the fight and Goku was with the Kaioken).
Toppo was distracted by the 17 attack and Freeza caught him from behind.
Toppo supposed to be SSB level KK does not mean that Freeza can not damage it just like Goku SSB did

I highly doubt Vegeta got a prement boost from his pride being hurt since it never happened before and no claimed it did.

Didn’t need to used it, but did it anyway wasting his precious stamina when Jiren was still in the ring and bodying. So, you’re saying Vegeta was a dumbass. And the epsoide when Vegeta exploded Beerus outright said Vegeta burn through his energy. Why would he be stronger?

So did Vegeta to Cell and the attacked did nothing. Cell got distracted because he stupidly turned towards Vegeta.

Maybe that's weird, but when Jiren said that Vegeta was stronger than Toppo, he basically also confirmed that the boost was somehow permanent.

And I would say that Vegeta used this technique simply because of the script.
The writers wanted to make a reference to the sacrifice of the Boo saga, but it was not necessary

[HeroR]

Vegeta just used all his energy (or not, because in the next EP he manages to transform without problems), he not almost kill himself or anything of the kind.
Vegeta himself tells Toppo that he would make an attack that he could not destroy. He already knew that Toppo would be unable to stop the Final Explosion

That does not change the fact that Vegeta was totally dominating Toppo before the Final Explosion. Vegeta did not 'need' to use it, he used it because he wanted to.
That is, script.

You're saying that Vegeta's boost is temporary, but that does not make any sense. Without this boost, Vegeta is inferior to Toppo. So, according to you, after the Final Explosion, Vegeta should be weaker than Toppo because he would not have the boost anymore, but Jiren himself confirms that Vegeta is stronger.

It does not matter if you did not consider the punches with '' fast-paced '', they exist
And I did not say that the Kamehameha that Goku used against Toppo was the strongest, but he was not weak either.

I also did not say that Toppo was SSB KK level, but that is yes possible (after all, Daishinkan says one of the two could die in the fight and Goku was with the Kaioken).
Toppo was distracted by the 17 attack and Freeza caught him from behind.
Toppo supposed to be SSB level KK does not mean that Freeza can not damage it just like Goku SSB did

I highly doubt Vegeta got a prement boost from his pride being hurt since it never happened before and no claimed it did.

Didn’t need to used it, but did it anyway wasting his precious stamina when Jiren was still in the ring and bodying. So, you’re saying Vegeta was a dumbass. And the epsoide when Vegeta exploded Beerus outright said Vegeta burn through his energy. Why would he be stronger?

So did Vegeta to Cell and the attacked did nothing. Cell got distracted because he stupidly turned towards Vegeta.

Maybe that's weird, but when Jiren said that Vegeta was stronger than Toppo, he basically also confirmed that the boost was somehow permanent.

And I would say that Vegeta used this technique simply because of the script.
The writers wanted to make a reference to the sacrifice of the Boo saga, but it was not necessary

How does one statement from Jiren confirmed that when everyone in the episode before literally said Vegeta got weaker. And Jiren's statement isn't even necessarily a power statement.

That really doesn't make sense since if they wanted to say Vegeta could beat Toppo without Final Explosion, he would have won without it. The fact that he used it and wasted his stamina points to him needing it, otherwise Vegeta is a moron.

[wolflonnie]

So, if I might try to move the conversation to other avenues....

Theoretically speaking, Goku should be able to achieve this Limit Breaking Blue form himself, right?

If he could, AND he could stack Kaioken on top of it...... Well, let's just be glad that Toei decided to give him the Ultra Instinct to put him over Vegeta instead

Well, we don't know the specifics of Royal Blue. It might be a form that only Vegeta can use

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

Also... any reason why Vegeta's clothes got a shade darker when in this form (even without aura)?

[Hugo Boss]

I highly doubt Vegeta got a prement boost from his pride being hurt since it never happened before and no claimed it did.

Didn’t need to used it, but did it anyway wasting his precious stamina when Jiren was still in the ring and bodying. So, you’re saying Vegeta was a dumbass. And the epsoide when Vegeta exploded Beerus outright said Vegeta burn through his energy. Why would he be stronger?

So did Vegeta to Cell and the attacked did nothing. Cell got distracted because he stupidly turned towards Vegeta.

Maybe that's weird, but when Jiren said that Vegeta was stronger than Toppo, he basically also confirmed that the boost was somehow permanent.

And I would say that Vegeta used this technique simply because of the script.
The writers wanted to make a reference to the sacrifice of the Boo saga, but it was not necessary

How does one statement from Jiren confirmed that when everyone in the episode before literally said Vegeta got weaker. And Jiren's statement isn't even necessarily a power statement.

That really doesn't make sense since if they wanted to say Vegeta could beat Toppo without Final Explosion, he would have won without it. The fact that he used it and wasted his stamina points to him needing it, otherwise Vegeta is a moron.

Judging by Vegeta’s punch, Jiren concluded he had the strength to beat Toppo, just like he did before powering-up to his max. I think we are forgetting Hakai is both offensive and defensive ability, so Vegeta needed an attack that could overpower both.

[Vegeta_Sama]

Also... any reason why Vegeta's clothes got a shade darker when in this form (even without aura)?

I think it's because the Blue of the hair would be too similair to the shade of Blue of his clothes. It would look horrible

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

Also... any reason why Vegeta's clothes got a shade darker when in this form (even without aura)?

I think it's because the Blue of the hair would be too similair to the shade of Blue of his clothes. It would look horrible

Hmm... Fair enough

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Has any Super Dragon Ball Heroes content come out yet that has a name for Vegeta's ascended SSB form?

After all, that game series is how we got the name for Future Trunks's Super Saiyan Rage form.

[Kinokima]

Has any Super Dragon Ball Heroes content come out yet that has a name for Vegeta's ascended SSB form?

After all, that game series is how we got the name for Future Trunks's Super Saiyan Rage form.

There is not an official name for it but DB Heroes already does have a card for it: A Prince that has surpassed his limits.

https://twitter.com/herms98/status/964584019319865344

In the episode itself I believe it is Whis who said Vegeta has surpassed his limits and Piccolo says it’s Beyond Blue or something like that.

Anyways no where do they say it is temporary or a Pride boost (like the equivalent of Vegeta’s rage boost in the My Bulma scene) so not sure where people are getting that.

[Grimlock]

And we have our name: Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Evolution.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

SSB Evolution.

Hmmm........... I guess we could also "dub-ify" it or make it better on the tongue by calling it "Evolved SSB" or something like that.

[MajinVegetaSSj6]

So SSGSS Shinka or SSB Shinka...if you are "ikari" type of fan

[Firebolt]

"SSB Evolution" is an okay name, it does remind me of a certain live action movie though.

Jokes aside, I think that "Beyond SSB" would be a waaaaay better name.

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

And we have our name: Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Evolution.

Super Saiyan Blue has always been an sucky name to me and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan was too long...

But "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Evolution"?

[Logania]

And we have our name: Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Evolution.

Dang, they're still using Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan as a legit name? Now we have added another word to the mix, That's great...

[TBMx]

I think the better question is why didn't Goku use it. It's better than Kaioken and achieved just by powering up and remembering sentimentality - which we don't even know if thats required. If Goku is such a "prodigy" it should be easy. His universe is on the line here.