HeroR wrote:TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Even though Toppo was beating Vegeta before the boost, the power difference between them was not great, Vegeta still managed to hold the fight.
And Vegeta just wanted to give Toppo an attack that he could not destroy with Hakai.
Vegeta did not kill himself, he just used all his power, and that power overcame Toppo's power.
On EP 127, after defending Vegeta's punch, Jiren says he understood why Vegeta was able to beat Toppo, confirming that he is actually stronger than Toppo.
Jiren was also facing Goku, but he did not say anything. It seems he did not feel that Goku could do the same thing.
Anyway, I think Vegeta Royal Blue is stronger than Goku SSB KK x20. If we consider that in EP 123 the two were on the same level, but in EP 126 Vegeta got stronger, so he naturally outlasted Goku.
It was great enough for Toppo to dominate that fight until Vegeta 'pride boosted' again. And it makes no sense for Vegeta to used an attack that wasted most of his energy if he could have beaten Toppo without it, unless he was freaking idiot since he still had Jiren to deal with who was bouncing him when he was far more fresh.
He confirmed Vegeta's strength, he didn't really acknowledged until that point since he didn't even see him worthy enough to KO after he finished dumping Hit. Compared to Goku which had his the god U11 seek him personally on him.
Vegeta got a pride boost and he lasted longer overall since Goku had stamina issues since 110, while Vegeta in comparison only started fighting hard in 122. Goku also fight more people even when low on stamina like the U6 Saiyans and U2, while Vegeta was playing with Toppo with neither of them being serious and then him playing with the U3 cop.
Final Explosion is not a suicide attack now. Vegeta is able to use it without dying, and he did it with Toppo.
So I do not understand why you keep saying "he almost had to kill himself to beat Toppo" when that attack is no longer suicidal, he just used all his power. And with all his power, he overcame Toppo, that's simple.
I also feel that you keep saying '' pride boost '', as if this were a temporary boost or something.
But Jiren basically says '' I understand how you managed to defeat Toppo '' after defending Vegeta's punch, he is confirming that Vegeta> Toppo through that speech.
Vegeta used this technique because he wanted to give Toppo an attack that he could not destroy, he says so.
That does not change the fact that Vegeta is stronger than Toppo
HeroR wrote:Mercenary wrote:
But what are you trying to prove mate?
SSBKK Goku was at the very best on par with Toppo during the exhibition match. And it was Toppo before becoming a Hakaishin, so far far weaker than his future self.
Vegeta at least has some feat proving that he is above SSBKK Goku.
And I don't know why is so hard for you to swallow at all. Don't worry, Mastered UI Goku is far beyond new Vegeta's form so you don't have to worry about Vegeta being stronger or even equal to Goku.
Your boy Goku is still superior. Now you can calm down.
Goku beat Toppo up with just Blue before he even used the Kaioken. Toppo didn't even touched Goku. So who do you know that Toppo was par with Blue Kaioken at full power.
Saying Vegeta is above Goku based on how he dealt with Toppo is like saying that Tien during the Cell Saga was above the Super Saiyans since he pinned down Semi-Perfect Cell who stomped the androids.
Please keep your conceding attitude and come up with a feat with Vegeta that didn't involved him using a technique that allowed him to hit beyond his limit.
No, Toppo has hit Goku several times, look at this picture
Goku was slightly superior to Toppo with SSB, and Toppo had not released all his power.
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Not to mention that he resisted a Kamehameha, despite having been left with some scratches
I don't want another headache