Post-hiatus-news: What series do you want next?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Hawk9211
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Re: Post-hiatus-news: What series do you want next?

Post by Hawk9211 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:28 am

Michsi wrote:
Hawk9211 wrote:*snip.
You don't need to copy-paste, I was in the nitty-gritty of this discussion.

My issue is not necessary with people claiming that it is or isn't wuxia, it's with people claiming it isn't .shonen'. This whole shonen is not a genre, it's just a demographic argument is as flawed as it outdated. For instance, since these stories have clearly been catering to female audiences as well (massively sometimes) for a good number of years now, how accurate is it to claim it is means nothing but 'the demographic' ?! This strikes as the same type of admonition directed at those that use the terms manga and anime because 'oh, it just means cartoons and comics'. It completely bypasses a very clear and distinct connotation/ interpretation the term has accumulated for the sake of ....I honestly can't think of any other reason than elitism?

I have never seen Kung fu hustle be referred to as wuxia, just that it makes reference to wuxia works and it's themes, which is exactly what DB does.
Well,db is a shonen and a wuxia.However,what dragon ball resembles most is battle shonen,which isn't what shonen is confined to.About shonen there is no specific definition that I have found except the age thing.From oda's sbs
D: I love the Dressrosa arc and have read it many times... but there is one thing I don't really understand. So I sent this question to the current sbs and you. "Why did Viola and Doflamingo call each other "Doffy", "Violet" in chapter 788 "How I fight"?" What were both of them thinking of at that time back then? P.N. Fuki

O: Hm, she was dashing against the enemy. There is a deep secret setting I can't tell you about though. I informed the supervisor about it, but since it is a pretty adult part of the story it remains hidden in the shonen manga which One Piece is. To all adults, please try to imagine yourselves. Dressrosa is truly a passionate country!!
Now,about kung fu hustle.Here,you go:http://genderandsexualitycinema.blogspo ... d.html?m=1
http://movies.wikia.com/wiki/Kung_Fu_Hustle
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Re: Post-hiatus-news: What series do you want next?

Post by Michsi » Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:03 pm

Hawk9211 wrote: Well,db is a shonen and a wuxia.However,what dragon ball resembles most is battle shonen,which isn't what shonen is confined to.About shonen there is no specific definition that I have found except the age thing.From oda's sbs
D: I love the Dressrosa arc and have read it many times... but there is one thing I don't really understand. So I sent this question to the current sbs and you. "Why did Viola and Doflamingo call each other "Doffy", "Violet" in chapter 788 "How I fight"?" What were both of them thinking of at that time back then? P.N. Fuki

O: Hm, she was dashing against the enemy. There is a deep secret setting I can't tell you about though. I informed the supervisor about it, but since it is a pretty adult part of the story it remains hidden in the shonen manga which One Piece is. To all adults, please try to imagine yourselves. Dressrosa is truly a passionate country!!
What you are pointing at me here is the writer being aware of the suitability of his content, hiding more mature stuff since from younger readers. But since he is addressing adults, it's clear it's not confined to the age demographic.

But sure, battle shonen, if you want to get technical. KnB is a sports shonen manga, but it still uses every shonen trope under the sun.

Ironically, Death Note should also be categorized as shonen, (same magazine, same age demographic) but I have yet to see anyone put Death Note and Dragon Ball in the same basket.

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Re: Post-hiatus-news: What series do you want next?

Post by Hawk9211 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:03 pm

Michsi wrote:
Hawk9211 wrote: Well,db is a shonen and a wuxia.However,what dragon ball resembles most is battle shonen,which isn't what shonen is confined to.About shonen there is no specific definition that I have found except the age thing.From oda's sbs
D: I love the Dressrosa arc and have read it many times... but there is one thing I don't really understand. So I sent this question to the current sbs and you. "Why did Viola and Doflamingo call each other "Doffy", "Violet" in chapter 788 "How I fight"?" What were both of them thinking of at that time back then? P.N. Fuki

O: Hm, she was dashing against the enemy. There is a deep secret setting I can't tell you about though. I informed the supervisor about it, but since it is a pretty adult part of the story it remains hidden in the shonen manga which One Piece is. To all adults, please try to imagine yourselves. Dressrosa is truly a passionate country!!
What you are pointing at me here is the writer being aware of the suitability of his content, hiding more mature stuff since from younger readers. But since he is addressing adults, it's clear it's not confined to the age demographic.

But sure, battle shonen, if you want to get technical. KnB is a sports shonen manga, but it still uses every shonen trope under the sun.

Ironically, Death Note should also be categorized as shonen, (same magazine, same age demographic) but I have yet to see anyone put Death Note and Dragon Ball in the same basket.
He is restricting the story because it can't be shown in a shonen magazine.However,I really don't want to involve in this whole shonen debacle I had a debate about this with another user that also went nowhere.The bolded part is what I was basically arguing about I don't know how can someone classify shonen as a genre.It doesn't have a central concept like wuxia revolves around martial arts.
Why power levels are important?
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Re: Post-hiatus-news: What series do you want next?

Post by Michsi » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:11 pm

Hawk9211 wrote:
Michsi wrote:
Hawk9211 wrote: Well,db is a shonen and a wuxia.However,what dragon ball resembles most is battle shonen,which isn't what shonen is confined to.About shonen there is no specific definition that I have found except the age thing.From oda's sbs
What you are pointing at me here is the writer being aware of the suitability of his content, hiding more mature stuff since from younger readers. But since he is addressing adults, it's clear it's not confined to the age demographic.

But sure, battle shonen, if you want to get technical. KnB is a sports shonen manga, but it still uses every shonen trope under the sun.

Ironically, Death Note should also be categorized as shonen, (same magazine, same age demographic) but I have yet to see anyone put Death Note and Dragon Ball in the same basket.
He is restricting the story because it can't be shown in a shonen magazine.However,I really don't want to involve in this whole shonen debacle I had a debate about this with another user that also went nowhere.The bolded part is what I was basically arguing about I don't know how can someone classify shonen as a genre.It doesn't have a central concept like wuxia revolves around martial arts.
What the bolded part is implying does not contradict what I wrote though. I don't deny the age implication.

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Re: Post-hiatus-news: What series do you want next?

Post by majinwarman » Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:33 pm

emperior wrote:
majinwarman wrote:
emperior wrote: Ki is a martial arts concept. It would be not only lame, but very stupid if suddenly every earthling learned how to fly and fire ki blasts. It's not like in the real world everyone can do what Bruce Lee could do, or any other expert martial artist can do.
I think that is what makes Dragon Ball more special than Naruto where everyone is a ninja.
And Toriyama’s idea was that maybe in the mountains there live crazy strong people, who can do crazy shit. I would be seriously disappointed if that Ki Book DBO thing happens in canon. In the game they used it as an excuse as to why there are so many warriors in the game, which is why it made sense there.
That's what I'm trying to say. It's like making everyone have superpowers like My Hero Academia but even then there are people who don't powers as well. It doesn't make sense for Dragon Ball to have everyone have the ability to use ki.
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Re: Post-hiatus-news: What series do you want next?

Post by Arugela » Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:38 pm

They haven't resolved the main point it brought up, like the Saiyan in beerus dreams and whatnot... Or they haven't really done anything with it. They don't seem like they scratched the surface on the stuff they hinted at.

This sort of says the same thing. It also says it's not going on haitus. https://otakukart.com/dragonballsuper/d ... xt-series/

This sort of goes with it: https://otakukart.com/dragonballsuper/n ... -possible/
My fan art:
Brolly Gohan Fusion!: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=38826
Uubeerus fusion: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=39923
Dende theme: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=39750

Zenoh might be waygu/kobe Beef!?: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40055
GT theory: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=40001

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Re: Post-hiatus-news: What series do you want next?

Post by rs_chaosmaster » Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:58 pm

If the new series is not post Z Dragon Ball Ultra makes sense title wise to me.

If the new series picks up post Z then Dragon Ball Genesis seems like a great title. This is because it will be like a new beginning with the new generation taking over as the main characters. With Goku, Vegeta, Beerus and Whis, as the supporting characters.

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Re: Post-hiatus-news: What series do you want next?

Post by 8bitdee » Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:23 pm

What do I want?

A post-Z series helmed by Toyataro.

I’m thankful to Toriyama for creating and giving us this franchise what we love so much, but he needs to go. The same way George Lucas had to go for Star Wars to be mildly watchable again.

Toriyama isn’t invested enough in the series. He’s happy to provide bullet points for TOEI but that’s about it, and the anime suffers for it, because TOEI has to half-assedly fill in the rest. Aside from Bardock, I’ve yet to enjoy a TOEI-only DragonBall plotline or concept.

I want a cornerstone who has a young person’s passion for this series and I believe Toyataro is currently that person based on his current work. Someone with passion and willingness to have creative control over the whole thing and not Toriyama who just provides an outline of a plot and happily goes back to his semi-retired life while TOEI stumbles trying to create something worthy.

Let Toyataro catch up with the Super manga during the “hiatus”. Once he’s done with Super, have him take over full creative control of a post-Z manga series, and after a few years of manga content TOEI can then adapt it into the new anime series with Toyataro as an advisor so there’s flow and consistency between the two instead of this disjointing of the two we currently have thanks to Toriyama going “And then he gets blue hair!… you guys figure out the rest.”

I’ve read that in interviews Toyataro has been called Toriyama’s “chosen successor”, but he still has to play by the rules of plot points given to him. Take Toriyama away and take those restraints off of Toyataro. The guy’s young, passionate, has a good grasp of the DragonBall world and most importantly can provide a fresh new take on DB rather than just relying on concepts from the past. Not to mention he probably knows DB better than Toriyama as he’s infamously known for forgetting series concepts/characters he’s introduced (which have become the reasons for many fan frustrations).

So yeah, that’s what I would want. Let the anime rest for a while, then make a grand return with new post-Z Toyataro material. DBS is almost fan-fiction level anyway, so why not let someone who created fan-fiction out of love and passion for the series take over.

Of course I don’t see it happening as money is the only language anime studios speak.

I leave with this, an interview excerpt:

“Toyotarō:
Ultimately things need to head towards the conclusion indicated by Toriyama-sensei‘s original draft, but during that process I want to give various characters things to do… At times like that I depart slightly from the script, but I guess you could say I’m faithful to its essence.

Toriyama:
I welcome it! After all, you know far more about Dragon Ball than I do.

Toyotarō:
Well, my goal is to be the No. 1 fan (laughs). Still, it’s not just about my desire to give various characters a chance to shine; there are also times when this sort of thing is necessary to arrive at the goal you’ve indicated, Toriyama-sensei. For instance, if the goal is for Goku to have a direct showdown with Zamasu at the end, I can’t simply have Goku reach that point in peak condition. There needs to be various twists and turns before the two can face off against each other. This time around in the “Future Trunks arc”, there were many such twists and turns that I created… though I was a bit uncertain about them…

Toriyama:
No, it’s better that way! I think it’s better to let your individuality as an author shine through, rather than just follow the path I set down for you. It would be unbalanced if it were all just my ideas, so it’s better like this.

Toyotarō:
While I tried not to take things too far afield, I certainly did get to use many of my own ideas at points. Like thinking “wouldn’t it be interesting if Trunks trained in the Kaiōshin Realm, and had healing powers?”

Toriyama:
It’s definitely better that way.”

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Re: Post-hiatus-news: What series do you want next?

Post by Low Tone G » Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:55 pm

8bitdee wrote:What do I want?

A post-Z series helmed by Toyataro.

I’m thankful to Toriyama for creating and giving us this franchise what we love so much, but he needs to go. The same way George Lucas had to go for Star Wars to be mildly watchable again.

Toriyama isn’t invested enough in the series. He’s happy to provide bullet points for TOEI but that’s about it, and the anime suffers for it, because TOEI has to half-assedly fill in the rest. Aside from Bardock, I’ve yet to enjoy a TOEI-only DragonBall plotline or concept.

I want a cornerstone who has a young person’s passion for this series and I believe Toyataro is currently that person based on his current work. Someone with passion and willingness to have creative control over the whole thing and not Toriyama who just provides an outline of a plot and happily goes back to his semi-retired life while TOEI stumbles trying to create something worthy.

Let Toyataro catch up with the Super manga during the “hiatus”. Once he’s done with Super, have him take over full creative control of a post-Z manga series, and after a few years of manga content TOEI can then adapt it into the new anime series with Toyataro as an advisor so there’s flow and consistency between the two instead of this disjointing of the two we currently have thanks to Toriyama going “And then he gets blue hair!… you guys figure out the rest.”

I’ve read that in interviews Toyataro has been called Toriyama’s “chosen successor”, but he still has to play by the rules of plot points given to him. Take Toriyama away and take those restraints off of Toyataro. The guy’s young, passionate, has a good grasp of the DragonBall world and most importantly can provide a fresh new take on DB rather than just relying on concepts from the past. Not to mention he probably knows DB better than Toriyama as he’s infamously known for forgetting series concepts/characters he’s introduced (which have become the reasons for many fan frustrations).

So yeah, that’s what I would want. Let the anime rest for a while, then make a grand return with new post-Z Toyataro material. DBS is almost fan-fiction level anyway, so why not let someone who created fan-fiction out of love and passion for the series take over.

Of course I don’t see it happening as money is the only language anime studios speak.

I leave with this, an interview excerpt:

“Toyotarō:
Ultimately things need to head towards the conclusion indicated by Toriyama-sensei‘s original draft, but during that process I want to give various characters things to do… At times like that I depart slightly from the script, but I guess you could say I’m faithful to its essence.

Toriyama:
I welcome it! After all, you know far more about Dragon Ball than I do.

Toyotarō:
Well, my goal is to be the No. 1 fan (laughs). Still, it’s not just about my desire to give various characters a chance to shine; there are also times when this sort of thing is necessary to arrive at the goal you’ve indicated, Toriyama-sensei. For instance, if the goal is for Goku to have a direct showdown with Zamasu at the end, I can’t simply have Goku reach that point in peak condition. There needs to be various twists and turns before the two can face off against each other. This time around in the “Future Trunks arc”, there were many such twists and turns that I created… though I was a bit uncertain about them…

Toriyama:
No, it’s better that way! I think it’s better to let your individuality as an author shine through, rather than just follow the path I set down for you. It would be unbalanced if it were all just my ideas, so it’s better like this.

Toyotarō:
While I tried not to take things too far afield, I certainly did get to use many of my own ideas at points. Like thinking “wouldn’t it be interesting if Trunks trained in the Kaiōshin Realm, and had healing powers?”

Toriyama:
It’s definitely better that way.”
I agree, But Toyotaro isn't Toriyama... And Dragon Ball without Toriyama's involvement isn't the same show!
English is not my first language!
I'm still waiting for Dragon Ball in Super...

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Re: Post-hiatus-news: What series do you want next?

Post by Duo » Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:39 pm

Jaco manga adapted to anime, but without the bonus chapter at the end (just re-air the Bardock Special instead as the last episode).

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