Why I am Okay with DBSuper Ending

[ChiefWamsutta]

I definitely am not happy about DBSuper finishing up from the perspective of a fan, but from a story-telling perspective it makes sense. They have an opportunity to put a closed loop on everything, providing closure. I actually love the idea of closure for Dragon Ball.

Battle of Gods and Resurrection 'F' introduced material that took place during the 10-year time gap from Kid Buu's defeat to meeting Uub. The introduction of DBSuper filled in those gaps even better. They gave us retellings of those movies with more depth on the characters and what was happening to them; for example, we got to learn more about Whis' training and saw Gotenks in the RoF arc. Ginyu was even given some time, and we saw where he had been. We saw Vegeta’s family vacation and Goku farming in BoG. This included during the Golden Frieza arc, having the plot point of the extra Dragon Ball wish being resolved. We also got to meet Champa and Vados in this arc. It teased the brotherhood between the Beerus and Champa, laying the groundwork for a rivalry.

We learned how Vegeta achieved SSBlue on his own, and (after numerous episodes later) we understood that to get SSBlue, one does not need to achieve SSGod first. Vegeta got the opportunity to confront Frieza personally. The last two times he saw Frieza, Vegeta was being whisked away to Earth by the Namekian Dragon Balls and watching from a far as Future Trunks murders Frieza. Here he got to show off all that he has accomplished and humiliate Frieza. This also showed where Frieza’s army had been since his demise.

The introduction of Beerus and Whis opened the door for new gods and deities. We learn more about the hierarchy of Dragon Ball from this, and I feel it personally balances power in the show. At the end of DBZ, we had SS1 Vegito as the strongest being, which felt odd to be so much more powerful than the Kais. With this, we learn that there are Gods of Destruction, who are far superior to their counterpart Kai Gods of Creation (another great tidbit). Learning that Whis is an Angel who oversees one universe is great too.

We get an introduction to the Dragon Ball multiverse, which every sci-fi fan has wanted in their favorite show at some point or another. We have this overseer Omni-King, his bodyguards, and the Father of the Angels. We get to see his power demonstrated and how threatening yet innocent he is. In typical Goku fashion, he befriends him.

We got to find out a lot of what happened to Future Trunks in his timeline. We got to see time travel and learned more lore about timelines through the introduction of the time rings. We got to see an unstable Potara fusion, and got an answer to why Vegito defused. An evil Kai was introduced coupled with an evil Goku that posed moral questions for the audience about gods and mortals. We got to see Vegito again. Future Trunks was the savior of his own story, and despite Future Omni-King needing to erase Future Zamasu (he was immortal and never would have died anyways, this was the right move), Trunks gets to live happily with Mai.

We see Beerus and Champa's rivalry create a universal tournament that introduces stronger enemies, tactics and abilities that don't focus entirely on power, unique character designs, and more lore, including the Super Dragon Balls. Hit has been a very interesting character who moved from a loner to the leader of his universe’s team. Cabba went from a meek Saiyan to someone who fights for others. This universe introduced female Saiyans/female Super Saiyans, giving homage to Movie 8, while being its own thing. The arc laid the groundwork for a bigger tournament that the Omni-King wanted to create.

This Tournament of Power had the highest stakes of anything Dragon Ball had ever faced. The planet was not going to blow up; the universe wasn't going to be taken over; no, literally everything including heaven, hell, the mortal realm and every being residing in that universe was going to cease to exist. This is the highest one can possibly go, and it introduced many new characters and abilities. We got a nice recruitment section that developed character arcs. We see Gohan settled down after finding out about Pan during Battle of Gods (another great aspect is seeing Bra and Pan born) because he was never truly a fighter in the same way Vegeta and Goku were. Then, when the time is needed Gohan trained again and came back for the Tournament of Power.

The character arcs of #17, Krillin, #18, Tien, and Roshi got reinvigorated, even for a short bit. We got more depth to them and they had a final moment to shine in the Tournament of Power. #17, Krillin, and #18 are becoming more of a family and had touching moments where they opened up. Tien and Roshi have come to terms with the fact they are due for retirement, but have still fight in them. Goku and Vegeta have, as of now, learned how to work together. They have been using tag-team-style fighting and have learned what Whis has taught them about their own inherent fighting flaws. Vegeta is learning to connect with his Saiyan heritage again thanks to U6, and is beginning to fight for other people. He has started to care for other people besides his family, and he has started to accept Goku as a true friend. Gohan has learned that he can be both a family man and a fighter; there can be a balance. Piccolo has become friends with #17 (who he once hated), and is accepting of Vegeta as part of the group too. He was able to teach Gohan one last time and met other Namekians from another universe, proving to himself that his heart is for Earth and the Z Fighters.

Frieza had a final character arc too. We inferred that every villain from Cell to King Cold to Jeice to Babidi were nothing like Frieza. They all repented for their sins, while Frieza couldn't. His character arc about training to become stronger through hate shows his growth -- he never needed to train before, and now he is in a position where he has to fight alongside the people he hates.

How I would have the Tournament of Power end: Dyspo should be knocked off first. Then #17 gets knocked off (he has already had some shining moments and helping defeat Anilaza because of his cyborg knowledge was key) fighting Toppo. They close off the Toppo character development by having him become a God of Destruction (Belmod gives it up to Toppo), and Gohan achieves a new form that he promised Goku he would. Goku and Vegeta cannot take on Jiren and God of Destruction Toppo at the same time. Golden Frieza and New Gohan defeat Toppo, but Gohan gets knocked out, giving Gohan a big moment. Goku while mastering UI finishes off Jiren WITH the help of Vegeta, but knocks himself out too. This leaves Frieza and Vegeta, who both have been very clear about wanting to use the Super Dragon Balls. Vegeta defeats Frieza and resurrects the eliminated universes (accidentally U13-U18 as well, closing off that plot point).

The show can end touching back with Goten and Trunks on the island, who have grown and learned responsibility from their reckless selves in the Buu arc. Frieza is back in hell, realizing that his arrogance is his inherent downfall. The universes have been saved. Roshi and Tien are retired and training students at the academy. #17 has a boat. Krillin is bonding closer to #18. Piccolo is helping Pan and Bra grow up. Beerus now has a group of friends instead of being a loner. Whis sees pride in his students excelling via UI and Beyond SSB. (One could argue Buu and Mr. Satan’s arcs were finished already). We see Goku teaching Goten, Pan, and Uub. Vegeta goes off to Planet Sadala and teaches the U6 Saiyans, feeling fulfillment. Each Saiyan would have an independent form, showing their uniqueness: Goku has UI, Vegeta has Beyond SSBlue, Gohan would have a new form, Future Trunks has SSRage, Kale has Mastered SSBerserker (Cabba, Caulifla, Goten, and Trunks can train and grow more in the upcoming movie, but don’t necessarily need their own forms, thus providing a nice epilogue). Every other Z Fighter has fulfilled their character arcs to a good degree and has been given closure. The other universes respect U7 now because they were all saved by U7. The Omni-Kings don't have as much a reason to destroy any more thanks to Goku's friendship, and 'getting it out of their system', per se.

There would be no Third Multiversal Tournament showing the other universes, as this is too repetitive, and no hints have been given other than fan speculation. The Grand Priest and the Angels would not turn evil. Goku and Vegeta would have found peace as fighters, not needing to be the strongest in the multiverse, but be content with how powerful they had gotten i.e. finally above Beerus. There is some resolution in knowing they would not need to be the strongest ever. Every plot point would be resolved. We end it with Ep. 131 at End of Z and the new movie is an epilogue.

[precita]

I don't feel like Super covered enough ground in 131 episodes. It was mostly the Goku and Vegeta show until recently (guest starring Future Trunks), and most of the other characters barely did anything or got any focus. And even now it's still not perfect. The first 25ish episodes wasted on crappy movie adaptions didn't help matters either.

Super feels like a lot of missed opportunities. So many characters were handled poorly and could have been done better like Gohan, Majin Buu, the ignoring of Trunks/Goten, or Krillin/Piccolo/Tien/Yamcha, etc. Likewise we only got two "new" arcs, Zamasu arc and TOP, with the U6 tournament feeling like a measly preview.

I feel like Super needed one more big arc after the TOP ended to redeem itself. The fact that Freeza was also brought back yet again with seemingly no payoff (at least for now), is pretty jarring.

[CJStriker_CBR]

I don't feel like Super covered enough ground in 131 episodes. It was mostly the Goku and Vegeta show until recently (guest starring Future Trunks), and most of the other characters barely did anything or got any focus. And even now it's still not perfect. The first 25ish episodes wasted on crappy movie adaptions didn't help matters either.

Super feels like a lot of missed opportunities. So many characters were handled poorly and could have been done better like Gohan, Majin Buu, the ignoring of Trunks/Goten, or Krillin/Piccolo/Tien/Yamcha, etc. Likewise we only got two "new" arcs, Zamasu arc and TOP, with the U6 tournament feeling like a measly preview.

I feel like Super needed one more big arc after the TOP ended to redeem itself. The fact that Freeza was also brought back yet again with seemingly no payoff (at least for now), is pretty jarring.

While I feel I should have more jarring feelings about what this means for both New Characters that I care about like Ribrianne and New Concepts developed in the ToP arc like UI and Jiren's place in Mythos that will likely now go on the backburner for sometime, My Biggest thing for me right now is;

How are they going to Wrap this WHOLE think up by episode 131?!

I get if it would end the ToP by then and end on Episodes like mid-140's to Late 140's yea, but this seems like an awful Rushed decision to make to rush to the end. I just find it odd and unnerving that we may get a rushed climax so fast.

I hope I am wrong and it is like a bunch of Episode 118's for the last few, but again seems like a hard squeeze to do so.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Does this deserve its own thread?

[puar]

<Obnoxious single-meme post removed by moderator.>

[ChiefWamsutta]

Does this deserve its own thread?

Well, for one, it was a very long post to put in another thread. Second, I was hoping people would discuss some of the aspects I mentioned about the remaining episodes and how this ties DBSuper together.

I wanted to create discussion, rather than just say my feelings in one post, so, yes, I felt it merited a thread.

[Kaboom]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/05/didnt-read.gif

Simply posting a single obnoxious and dismissive meme is not how we post here. Please don't do this again.

[puar]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/05/didnt-read.gif

Simply posting a single obnoxious and dismissive meme is not how we post here. Please don't do this again.

breathing is allowed?

[sintzu]

I think it's good for a number of reasons :

1- when it or another show come back they'll have a better production schedule due to them knowing about it so far ahead of time.

2- It gives Toriyama more time to come up with new stories.

3- Having a break after every 100 or so episodes will prevent franchise fatigue.

IF (there's a very small chance of this being the case) There isn't going to be another anime and the next movie will be the last one then they shouldn't have bothered bringing the franchise back. What we've gotten has been good and I've enjoyed a lot of it but if they're not going to go all out then they shouldn't have at all.

I don't feel like Super covered enough ground in 131 episodes.

If you take DB's filler out then you've got 6 arcs spread across 133 episodes which cover so much more than Super did.

I think a major issue with Super is the amount of time wasting it did. the first 27 episodes were movie recaps then we got a 5 episode filler arc and finally a 9 episode slice of like arc which brings super's main content count to 90 episodes. If you take into account the amount of time wasted in the current arc then that number can go down to 80 or less. I think Super would've done so much more had it used its time better as there was no need to drag anything out or have none main content between arcs due to it not being based off a manga like before.

I agree with the character usage as only now they're doing something with Gohan and Piccolo which should've been done from the very start.

[OLKv3]

It still feels like DBS is just starting, which is weird.

[GamerSkull]

I still have yet to catch up but I'm gonna be there in no time.

It really feels like this series is stopping/going on hiatus after what feels like so short of a time.

A part of me is okay with it ending since it doesn't feel the same as the original run... but another feels like this is too soon for it to end considering such a big deal was made with it coming back and the fact that from what I've gathered, things are going to be rushed.

I kind of hope they use the next movie... or another movie afterwards to wrap up any lingering plot threads and then continue with a movie format every other year.

If a new show does come... then it should be set after the End of Z and should feature some of the side characters more prominently (or just Uub and a new generation).

[sintzu]

It still feels like DBS is just starting, which is weird.

That's because it kind of is as we're just getting done with its 3rd main arc. 40+ episodes have just been time wasting.

[BWri]

I agree with the character usage as only now they're doing something with Gohan and Piccolo which should've been done from the very start.

Yeah imagine that and if they had actually used the two of them in the U6 tourney arc and made the U6 fighters more threatening. Maybe Frost's elimination of Goku is actually permanent and Gohan, Vegeta, and Piccolo actually have to scramble to defeat tough opponents without their ace. The drama! The tension! The character development! And Goku can always show off his KK later.

[sintzu]

Maybe Frost's elimination of Goku is actually permanent and Gohan, Vegeta, and Piccolo actually have to scramble to defeat tough opponents without their ace. The drama! The tension! The character development! And Goku can always show off his KK later.

This is why I love the Cell arc so much, Goku was out for most of it so it was up to everyone else to keep things under control which resulted in Gohan ebating the final villain. Not only did that make us miss and appreciate Goku but also showed how strong of a cast the secondary characters were. The problem with modern DB is that the people behind it are too afraid to do something that out of the box so we'll most likely never get anything like that again.

[BWri]

Maybe Frost's elimination of Goku is actually permanent and Gohan, Vegeta, and Piccolo actually have to scramble to defeat tough opponents without their ace. The drama! The tension! The character development! And Goku can always show off his KK later.

This is why I love the Cell arc so much, Goku was out for most of it so it was up to everyone else to keep things under control which resulted in Gohan ebating the final villain. Not only did that make us miss and appreciate Goku but also showed how strong of a cast the secondary characters were. The problem with modern DB is that the people behind it are too afraid to do something that out of the box so we'll most likely never get anything like that again.

100% agree. I understand that people felt that they overdid it with keeping Goku sidelined, but it did create a ton of dramatic tension and gave the others important roles in the story. Goku also gets the main bad guy anyway, so why not have the other characters get some screen time beforehand? Just adding one other protagonist in the Future Trunks arc made me 50x more interested in Super at the time, when I had all but stopped watching completely

[buutenks]

I don't mind. I think it is a perfect end for Super. Doesn't .after who wins the ToP.

[Lord Beerus]

I don't mind Super ending now because I feel as though with the Universal Survival arc, the plot couldn't feel any more of grander and conclusive. Ultra Instinct itself feels like the culmination to everything that the show had been building up to since it began. And it's really difficult to imagine how the story could escalate even further after an event like the Tournament Of Power, especially with the opponents that Goku has faced and how strong Goku himself has gotten.

[SupremeKai25]

Future Trunks was the savior of his own story,

No, Trunks himself aknowledges he failed to protect his world.

and despite Future Omni-King needing to erase Future Zamasu (he was immortal and never would have died anyways, this was the right move)

That was a last desperate attempt to try to stop Infinite Zamasu's unending power. The 'right' move would have been to remember bringing the magic seal to the Future timeline. But they didn't. They made a great mistake and paid dearly for it. Also, the Omni-King didn't erase only Infinite Zamasu, he also erased the ENTIRE Future timeline, which includes the souls of Future Goku, Future Bulma, Future Gohan, etc...

Trunks gets to live happily with Mai.

Sure... if you ignore the fact the souls of Trunks' loved ones, those he swore to protect, were erased forever by the Omni-King, and that he will be forced to carry the burden of a crushing defeat to his grave... then sure.

[buutenks]

I don't mind Super ending now because I feel as though with the Universal Survival arc, the plot couldn't feel any more of grander and conclusive. Ultra Instinct itself feels like the culmination to everything that the show had been building up to since it began. And it's really difficult to imagine how the story could escalate even further after an event like the Tournament Of Power, especially with the opponents that Goku has faced and how strong Goku himself has gotten.

Pretty much this. Jiren is the final wall. A mortal that is stronger than a GoD, but he himself isnt a god. And UI was forshadowed by Whis since RoF. So it is a nice end. Tho i am sure those that said GP is evil and the GoDs will rebel etc will be disappointed. Tho i always found is silly when people discussed this, because DB isnt that deep, the GP, Zeno etc r just there for the plot to move forward. They arent fighters, nor will they fight the Z fighters. Even the GoDs r just there just because.

DB is and has always been a simply story. The Z fighters are in peril and they must fight and get stronger to survive and stop the enemy. DB was never about exploring other characters, or universes or making spin offs. The only reason the 12 universe was introduced was so there would be more enemies for Goku and co to fight. Plus there are no stronger beings to face in the 12 universes. Jiren is the top mortal in all universes. Roshi even said a few episodes back that the strongest in all the universes r going to face off, aka Goku, Jiren, Toppo, Dyspo, Gohan, Freeza, 17 n Vegeta. Considering Super is ending, this makes sense. The 4 universes were except because it was proly to much trouble to add another 40 fighters to the mix just so they will be ringed out. We got a ton of those kind of characters that existed just to fill in space.