Why do you think Super is ending ?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Why do you think Super is ending ?

Post by Basaku » Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:37 am

TheMikado wrote:N
When looking at the sales and licensing everyone presumes it is all immediately contributions by Super related branding. We have no such evidence of that.
We have, it's called looking at the charts and noticing that numbers skyrocket for both companies while Super is on air. Simple.

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Re: Why do you think Super is ending ?

Post by Michsi » Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:48 am

HeroR wrote:
Michsi wrote:
HeroR wrote:
2ch is basically 4ch and GameFaq, they runs on negativity. They're not the majority no matter how vocal they are. And we won't know how popular or hated someone like Rib is until they do an official poll like Dragon Ball Forever.
.
Ribrianne discussion wasn't from 2ch, but twitter from what I remember. Polls aren't always that accurate either.
You can't just pretend Super's lower number exists in a vacuumed. No company runs like that. Otherwise, Kai would have never been cancelled since it had great ratings.
And I didn't frame it like that in my post either. I specifically said the 'business' as in the TV industry as a whole. Example: Think Sony cared that other companies also faced similar losses in Walkman sales? All it did was prove that the tech was outdated and the product needed to be dropped as a whole. Kai suffered because of low merch. sales; Super has great merch sales, but is the secret behind that the anime or Xenoverse/Dokkan Battle/ the movies ? Gaming industry is on the rise, has been for a good number of years now, and they can sustain a franchise on their own. This is where I'm getting at.
I was talking about 2ch in general.

In the 'business', all tv ratings are down, not just Super, and even then Super has kept the same ranking and never dropped from the top 10. Which can't be said about many shows that are still running, look at Boruto or even Fairy Tail. And Xenoverse was a thing before Super and it didn't jacked the sells like Super did. Dokkan is hard to gauged since it came out the same years a Super, but even with Dokkan a lot of it's big support came from adapting stuff from Super. They even released the UI Goku card the same day UI Goku debut in the anime.

Overall, Dragon Ball exploding the way it did happened in 2015 with the released of Resurrection 'F' and Super. For reference, not even Battle of Gods kept interested that high after its release.
Looking at unit sales, and that it was the second best-selling game after a record-breaker that month, I'd say Xenoverse was a thing even before Super started. And the Top 10 thing is also up for debate, seeing as it might owe it's ranking due to favorable time slot (it usually does). Naruto was barely ever in the TOP 10 so I can't say how much worse Boruto is doing.
No one is denying Super it's role in making DB this relevant again, it sure did a helluva lot better than GT did, but there's profit/cost to consider. If it's true that the average episode costs 300,000 $ (industry average, and DBS episodes might actually cost more despite questionable quality) then that means about 15 mill. $ a year in expenses for Toei. We don't know how much of Bandai Namco's profits goes to the animation studio. DVD sales sure aren't enough to keep it alive.

We don't have the board meeting details, but there's usually more going on behind the scenes than positive sales number suggest.

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Re: Why do you think Super is ending ?

Post by TheMikado » Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:51 am

Basaku wrote:
TheMikado wrote:N
When looking at the sales and licensing everyone presumes it is all immediately contributions by Super related branding. We have no such evidence of that.
We have, it's called looking at the charts and noticing that numbers skyrocket for both companies while Super is on air. Simple.
No that's simplistic.

Ok for context. Ford releases a new model of Mustang. The company suddenly increases sales substantially. You start making the assumption that all new sales differences were Mustangs.
The fact is the Mustangs were a driver getting people in the door which prompted sales of other older models. The Mustang's role was a marketer of existing products.
I mean this is business 101. Looking at a sales chart and attributing 100% your growth to a single new product is literally the worse possible analysis you can make.

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Re: Why do you think Super is ending ?

Post by TheMikado » Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:52 am

Michsi wrote:
HeroR wrote:
Michsi wrote:
Ribrianne discussion wasn't from 2ch, but twitter from what I remember. Polls aren't always that accurate either.



And I didn't frame it like that in my post either. I specifically said the 'business' as in the TV industry as a whole. Example: Think Sony cared that other companies also faced similar losses in Walkman sales? All it did was prove that the tech was outdated and the product needed to be dropped as a whole. Kai suffered because of low merch. sales; Super has great merch sales, but is the secret behind that the anime or Xenoverse/Dokkan Battle/ the movies ? Gaming industry is on the rise, has been for a good number of years now, and they can sustain a franchise on their own. This is where I'm getting at.
I was talking about 2ch in general.

In the 'business', all tv ratings are down, not just Super, and even then Super has kept the same ranking and never dropped from the top 10. Which can't be said about many shows that are still running, look at Boruto or even Fairy Tail. And Xenoverse was a thing before Super and it didn't jacked the sells like Super did. Dokkan is hard to gauged since it came out the same years a Super, but even with Dokkan a lot of it's big support came from adapting stuff from Super. They even released the UI Goku card the same day UI Goku debut in the anime.

Overall, Dragon Ball exploding the way it did happened in 2015 with the released of Resurrection 'F' and Super. For reference, not even Battle of Gods kept interested that high after its release.
Looking at unit sales, and that it was the second best-selling game after a record-breaker that month, I'd say Xenoverse was a thing even before Super started. And the Top 10 thing is also up for debate, seeing as it might owe it's ranking due to favorable time slot (it usually does). Naruto was barely ever in the TOP 10 so I can't say how much worse Boruto is doing.
No one is denying Super it's role in making DB this relevant again, it sure did a helluva lot better than GT did, but there's profit/cost to consider. If it's true that the average episode costs 300,000 $ (industry average, and DBS episodes might actually cost more despite questionable quality) then that means about 15 mill. $ a year in expenses for Toei. We don't know how much of Bandai Namco's profits goes to the animation studio. DVD sales sure aren't enough to keep it alive.

We don't have the board meeting details, but there's usually more going on behind the scenes than positive sales number suggest.

1 year of DBS at current anime rates would cost about 1 Billion yen, so not cheap...

Also for context BoGs was made for 50 Million yen which Toei got from UNIJAPAN to make the film and it made them 3 Billion yen domestically and 5 Billion yen worldwide.
Last edited by TheMikado on Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why do you think Super is ending ?

Post by Michsi » Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:56 am

TheMikado wrote:
Michsi wrote:
HeroR wrote:
I was talking about 2ch in general.

In the 'business', all tv ratings are down, not just Super, and even then Super has kept the same ranking and never dropped from the top 10. Which can't be said about many shows that are still running, look at Boruto or even Fairy Tail. And Xenoverse was a thing before Super and it didn't jacked the sells like Super did. Dokkan is hard to gauged since it came out the same years a Super, but even with Dokkan a lot of it's big support came from adapting stuff from Super. They even released the UI Goku card the same day UI Goku debut in the anime.

Overall, Dragon Ball exploding the way it did happened in 2015 with the released of Resurrection 'F' and Super. For reference, not even Battle of Gods kept interested that high after its release.
Looking at unit sales, and that it was the second best-selling game after a record-breaker that month, I'd say Xenoverse was a thing even before Super started. And the Top 10 thing is also up for debate, seeing as it might owe it's ranking due to favorable time slot (it usually does). Naruto was barely ever in the TOP 10 so I can't say how much worse Boruto is doing.
No one is denying Super it's role in making DB this relevant again, it sure did a helluva lot better than GT did, but there's profit/cost to consider. If it's true that the average episode costs 300,000 $ (industry average, and DBS episodes might actually cost more despite questionable quality) then that means about 15 mill. $ a year in expenses for Toei. We don't know how much of Bandai Namco's profits goes to the animation studio. DVD sales sure aren't enough to keep it alive.

We don't have the board meeting details, but there's usually more going on behind the scenes than positive sales number suggest.

1 year of DBS at current anime rates would cost about 1 Billion yen, so not cheap...
I had it at almost 2 billion converting dollars to yen. It was top of the head calculation that might be totally off, but still, it's up there. Anime production is expensive. And I assume costs don't stop there.

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Re: Why do you think Super is ending ?

Post by Sani007 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:01 am

Basaku wrote:One thing for sure, it wasn't because of the merch/licensing sales:
and half-year numbers for both Toei and Bandai's fiscal years 2018 already show ever higher numbers than in previous years
This is madness. It's like if Disney after the record box office of Star Wars 7 has cancelled SW8-9.

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Re: Why do you think Super is ending ?

Post by TheMikado » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:05 am

Michsi wrote:
TheMikado wrote:
Michsi wrote:
Looking at unit sales, and that it was the second best-selling game after a record-breaker that month, I'd say Xenoverse was a thing even before Super started. And the Top 10 thing is also up for debate, seeing as it might owe it's ranking due to favorable time slot (it usually does). Naruto was barely ever in the TOP 10 so I can't say how much worse Boruto is doing.
No one is denying Super it's role in making DB this relevant again, it sure did a helluva lot better than GT did, but there's profit/cost to consider. If it's true that the average episode costs 300,000 $ (industry average, and DBS episodes might actually cost more despite questionable quality) then that means about 15 mill. $ a year in expenses for Toei. We don't know how much of Bandai Namco's profits goes to the animation studio. DVD sales sure aren't enough to keep it alive.

We don't have the board meeting details, but there's usually more going on behind the scenes than positive sales number suggest.

1 year of DBS at current anime rates would cost about 1 Billion yen, so not cheap...
I had it at almost 2 billion converting dollars to yen. It was top of the head calculation that might be totally off, but still, it's up there. Anime production is expensive. And I assume costs don't stop there.
The 1 Billion would be the minimum, I doubt its as high as 2 billion but who knows.

Also for RoF made almost 4billion yen domestically and it was getting close to 10 worldwide. The films appear to be highly profitable as those are just the theatrical releases and not counting home releases.

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Re: Why do you think Super is ending ?

Post by HeroR » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:07 am

Michsi wrote:
Looking at unit sales, and that it was the second best-selling game after a record-breaker that month, I'd say Xenoverse was a thing even before Super started. And the Top 10 thing is also up for debate, seeing as it might owe it's ranking due to favorable time slot (it usually does). Naruto was barely ever in the TOP 10 so I can't say how much worse Boruto is doing.
No one is denying Super it's role in making DB this relevant again, it sure did a helluva lot better than GT did, but there's profit/cost to consider. If it's true that the average episode costs 300,000 $ (industry average, and DBS episodes might actually cost more despite questionable quality) then that means about 15 mill. $ a year in expenses for Toei. We don't know how much of Bandai Namco's profits goes to the animation studio. DVD sales sure aren't enough to keep it alive.

We don't have the board meeting details, but there's usually more going on behind the scenes than positive sales number suggest.
Xenoverse sold well, never said that. But it didn't jacked the sells of Dragon Ball as a whole the same way the movies or Super did since games by default more more niche. Time only does so much, look at Toriko. Also, Boruto on a whole is doing worst than Naruto.

We know Super wasn't produced at a lost, especially since Dragon Ball sells went up every cour. So Super more than paid for itself.
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precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Why do you think Super is ending ?

Post by Michsi » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:16 am

HeroR wrote:
Michsi wrote:
Looking at unit sales, and that it was the second best-selling game after a record-breaker that month, I'd say Xenoverse was a thing even before Super started. And the Top 10 thing is also up for debate, seeing as it might owe it's ranking due to favorable time slot (it usually does). Naruto was barely ever in the TOP 10 so I can't say how much worse Boruto is doing.
No one is denying Super it's role in making DB this relevant again, it sure did a helluva lot better than GT did, but there's profit/cost to consider. If it's true that the average episode costs 300,000 $ (industry average, and DBS episodes might actually cost more despite questionable quality) then that means about 15 mill. $ a year in expenses for Toei. We don't know how much of Bandai Namco's profits goes to the animation studio. DVD sales sure aren't enough to keep it alive.

We don't have the board meeting details, but there's usually more going on behind the scenes than positive sales number suggest.
Xenoverse sold well, never said that. But it didn't jacked the sells of Dragon Ball as a whole the same way the movies or Super did since games by default more more niche. Time only does so much, look at Toriko. Also, Boruto on a whole is doing worst than Naruto.

We know Super wasn't produced at a lost, especially since Dragon Ball sells went up every cour. So Super more than paid for itself.
Again, the question here is if the estimated income the Super brand brings to the franchise as a whole is worth the immense production cost. Yes, it's on the rise, but is that uptick proportional to the investment?
Didn't someone notice that a lot of the merchandise being currently sold still are being marketed "Z" instead of "Super"?

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Re: Why do you think Super is ending ?

Post by TheMikado » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:25 am

Michsi wrote:
HeroR wrote:
Michsi wrote:
Looking at unit sales, and that it was the second best-selling game after a record-breaker that month, I'd say Xenoverse was a thing even before Super started. And the Top 10 thing is also up for debate, seeing as it might owe it's ranking due to favorable time slot (it usually does). Naruto was barely ever in the TOP 10 so I can't say how much worse Boruto is doing.
No one is denying Super it's role in making DB this relevant again, it sure did a helluva lot better than GT did, but there's profit/cost to consider. If it's true that the average episode costs 300,000 $ (industry average, and DBS episodes might actually cost more despite questionable quality) then that means about 15 mill. $ a year in expenses for Toei. We don't know how much of Bandai Namco's profits goes to the animation studio. DVD sales sure aren't enough to keep it alive.

We don't have the board meeting details, but there's usually more going on behind the scenes than positive sales number suggest.
Xenoverse sold well, never said that. But it didn't jacked the sells of Dragon Ball as a whole the same way the movies or Super did since games by default more more niche. Time only does so much, look at Toriko. Also, Boruto on a whole is doing worst than Naruto.

We know Super wasn't produced at a lost, especially since Dragon Ball sells went up every cour. So Super more than paid for itself.
Again, the question here is if the estimated income the Super brand brings to the franchise as a whole is worth the immense production cost. Yes, it's on the rise, but is that uptick proportional to the investment?
Didn't someone notice that a lot of the merchandise being currently sold still are being marketed "Z" instead of "Super"?
Yes much of what is being marketed operates under the Z brand. Super specific branding has increased.

As to Xenoverse. It sold over 3 million copies! Lets just say its $40 USD a pop, That one product alone would be 13 Billion yen!! And that may be conservative.
Dragonball Z Dokkan battle makes an average of 17 MILLION yen DAILY!! It's insane.

The point I am making is that attributing all that revenue solely to Super is why people have this bizarre notion that Super is the ONLY reason for DBs current success. It's not.

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Re: Why do you think Super is ending ?

Post by Michsi » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:38 am

TheMikado wrote:
Michsi wrote:
HeroR wrote:
Xenoverse sold well, never said that. But it didn't jacked the sells of Dragon Ball as a whole the same way the movies or Super did since games by default more more niche. Time only does so much, look at Toriko. Also, Boruto on a whole is doing worst than Naruto.

We know Super wasn't produced at a lost, especially since Dragon Ball sells went up every cour. So Super more than paid for itself.
Again, the question here is if the estimated income the Super brand brings to the franchise as a whole is worth the immense production cost. Yes, it's on the rise, but is that uptick proportional to the investment?
Didn't someone notice that a lot of the merchandise being currently sold still are being marketed "Z" instead of "Super"?
Yes much of what is being marketed operates under the Z brand. Super specific branding has increased.

As to Xenoverse. It sold over 3 million copies! Lets just say its $40 USD a pop, That one product alone would be 13 Billion yen!! And that may be conservative.
Dragonball Z Dokkan battle makes an average of 17 MILLION yen DAILY!! It's insane.

The point I am making is that attributing all that revenue solely to Super is why people have this bizarre notion that Super is the ONLY reason for DBs current success. It's not.
What's strange is that Bandai expects an even bigger profit in 2018, despite probably being well aware the anime would end in March. Seems like they are banking a lot on the movie and the games.

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Re: Why do you think Super is ending ?

Post by Basaku » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:45 am

TheMikado wrote:
Basaku wrote:
TheMikado wrote:N
When looking at the sales and licensing everyone presumes it is all immediately contributions by Super related branding. We have no such evidence of that.
We have, it's called looking at the charts and noticing that numbers skyrocket for both companies while Super is on air. Simple.
No that's simplistic.

Ok for context. Ford releases a new model of Mustang. The company suddenly increases sales substantially. You start making the assumption that all new sales differences were Mustangs.
The fact is the Mustangs were a driver getting people in the door which prompted sales of other older models. The Mustang's role was a marketer of existing products.
I mean this is business 101. Looking at a sales chart and attributing 100% your growth to a single new product is literally the worse possible analysis you can make.
It is simple, and no I'm not attributing 100% of the revenue increase to Super, but a huge majority of it no doubt. And we're not talking a single product like 1 car model, we're talking the main weekly product here that advertises everything else and delivers content (for merch, dlc etc) for everything else. And a simple look at fiscal years 2014/15 where we already had a new movie in comparsion to the numbers for 16/17 when Super became the main product makes it abudantly clear which makes the numbers soar the the record levels.

The only reason you're so adamant on not seeing the obvious that everyone else does is because you're a big GT fan and hope that Toei never decides "yeah, we can overwrite GT with newer product because it will being much higher sales than old and not particularly beloved GT".

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Re: Why do you think Super is ending ?

Post by sintzu » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:59 am

Geekdom101 said that Super's production staff (if not all then a good number of them) are moving on to work on the 20th movie so it makes sense to stop it for that reason as trying to do both will result in both not being up to expected quality.

BOG made 50 million while RF made 65 million so as long as it makes that or more then it'll probably be back in 2019.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

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Re: Why do you think Super is ending ?

Post by Professor Freeza » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:10 am

sintzu wrote:Geekdom101 said that Super's production staff (if not all then a good number of them) are moving on to work on the 20th movie so it makes sense to stop it for that reason as trying to do both will result in both not being up to expected quality.

BOG made 50 million while RF made 65 million so as long as it makes that or more then it'll probably be back in 2019.
In the old days they made movies why Z was still running. Why not make ToP run 1 month more, then start with a long Slice of life stuff? 4-5 months should be enough. It can be done by Toei Philippines and new artists, an on job audition of sorts, while the main guys finish the movie and come back after that for Super with a brand new arc

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Re: Why do you think Super is ending ?

Post by sintzu » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:15 am

Professor Freeza wrote:In the old days they made movies while Z was still running.

Why not make ToP run 1 month more, then start with a long Slice of life stuff? 4-5 months should be enough.
Unlike now those were short movies that weren't that different quality wise from the regular TV show and Toei didn't have the amount of projects to work on back then that they do now.

They'd rather just stop it all together which if true, I think is the right move because those resources as small as they could be will go into making the movie the best one it can be.
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Re: Why do you think Super is ending ?

Post by Professor Freeza » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:26 am

sintzu wrote:
Professor Freeza wrote:In the old days they made movies while Z was still running.

Why not make ToP run 1 month more, then start with a long Slice of life stuff? 4-5 months should be enough.
Unlike now those were short movies that weren't that different quality wise from the regular TV show and Toei didn't have the amount of projects to work on back then that they do now.

They'd rather just stop it all together which if true, I think is the right move because those resources as small as they could be will go into making the movie the best one it can be.
While i agree with that, why not call it a hiatus then, instead of keeping it undecided?

Looks to me that they are done with the series. Like i said 2 days ago, Jiren/Goku are the strongest mortals with the Multiverse. There's no natural place for Goku to go. Even uub is rendered moot now.

Only Freeza as the Ruler of the Multiverse raises any stake.

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Re: Why do you think Super is ending ?

Post by sintzu » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:28 am

Professor Freeza wrote:Why not call it a hiatus then, instead of keeping it undecided?

Jiren/Goku are the strongest mortals with the Multiverse. There's no natural place for Goku to go.
1- They don't know for sure if the movie will be a big hit. 2- they can't build up hype if everyone knows it'll be back.

Goku and Piccolo were that at the end of the 23rd Tenkaichi while Goku and Buu were that at the end of Z so if they want to come up with something bigger they will, it all depends on how much $$$ they make from the movie.
TheMikado wrote:When looking at the sales and licensing everyone presumes it is all immediately contributions by Super related branding. We have no such evidence of that.

They have yet to find a Super only related character as wildly popular as the movie stars of Beerus, Broly, or Bardock.

Executives may feel the profitability of the franchise may be better served through a series of films.
The franchise's sales skyrocketed when Super started and got better every year. Those are undeniable numbers.

Goku Black and Hit are pretty popular, both are from super.

It's common knowledge that anime series are the biggest $$$ makers due to them having their franchise in everyone's face weeky unlike movies which at best are released one a yea.
Basaku wrote:You hope Toei never decides "yeah, we can overwrite GT with newer product because it will being much higher sales than old and not particularly beloved GT".
They decided that back in 2011 when they started writing BOG and things just got worse for GT with each new story.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

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Re: Why do you think Super is ending ?

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:08 am

It is really hard to believe that despite the immense success of Super in Japan, that the 50th anniversary of Gegege no Kitarō was just too big of a deal from a cultural perspective in Japan to ignore? I mean, I don't see the new Gegege no Kitarō series itself lasting until the new DB movie is released, and Super has already provided enough material for Toei and Bandai to milk for years to come. Plus, the Super manga will still be going on until at least the beginning of 2019, unless Toyotaro decided to blitz through the Tournament Of Power.

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Re: Why do you think Super is ending ?

Post by TheMikado » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:10 am

Basaku wrote:
TheMikado wrote:
Basaku wrote: We have, it's called looking at the charts and noticing that numbers skyrocket for both companies while Super is on air. Simple.
No that's simplistic.

Ok for context. Ford releases a new model of Mustang. The company suddenly increases sales substantially. You start making the assumption that all new sales differences were Mustangs.
The fact is the Mustangs were a driver getting people in the door which prompted sales of other older models. The Mustang's role was a marketer of existing products.
I mean this is business 101. Looking at a sales chart and attributing 100% your growth to a single new product is literally the worse possible analysis you can make.
It is simple, and no I'm not attributing 100% of the revenue increase to Super, but a huge majority of it no doubt. And we're not talking a single product like 1 car model, we're talking the main weekly product here that advertises everything else and delivers content (for merch, dlc etc) for everything else. And a simple look at fiscal years 2014/15 where we already had a new movie in comparsion to the numbers for 16/17 when Super became the main product makes it abudantly clear which makes the numbers soar the the record levels.

The only reason you're so adamant on not seeing the obvious that everyone else does is because you're a big GT fan and hope that Toei never decides "yeah, we can overwrite GT with newer product because it will being much higher sales than old and not particularly beloved GT".
It has nothing at all to do with GT. The fact is they had no merchandise of significance to sell during that time period.
Look at your own charts you posted and compare it to this list.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_D ... ames#2010s

Even without a new series they did significant sales because they had quality merchandise to sell just in video games alone.
The numbers show historically that even without a new series Z merchandise can and does sell with quality product.

I wouldn't even argue the bulk of it is Super related branding because they do not have a major Super branded product beyond the anime itself. You are arguing that the brand of "Super" carries weight by looking at a chart, when they decided to put it on "hiatus". How much sense does that make?

sintzu wrote:
Professor Freeza wrote:Why not call it a hiatus then, instead of keeping it undecided?

Jiren/Goku are the strongest mortals with the Multiverse. There's no natural place for Goku to go.
1- They don't know for sure if the movie will be a big hit. 2- they can't build up hype if everyone knows it'll be back.

Goku and Piccolo were that at the end of the 23rd Tenkaichi while Goku and Buu were that at the end of Z so if they want to come up with something bigger they will, it all depends on how much $$$ they make from the movie.
TheMikado wrote:When looking at the sales and licensing everyone presumes it is all immediately contributions by Super related branding. We have no such evidence of that.

They have yet to find a Super only related character as wildly popular as the movie stars of Beerus, Broly, or Bardock.

Executives may feel the profitability of the franchise may be better served through a series of films.
The franchise's sales skyrocketed when Super started and got better every year. Those are undeniable numbers.

Goku Black and Hit are pretty popular, both are from super.

It's common knowledge that anime series are the biggest $$$ makers due to them having their franchise in everyone's face weeky unlike movies which at best are released one a yea.
Basaku wrote:You hope Toei never decides "yeah, we can overwrite GT with newer product because it will being much higher sales than old and not particularly beloved GT".
They decided that back in 2011 when they started writing BOG and things just got worse for GT with each new story.
Anime are both a marketing tool and a cost. Super brought awareness to the entire franchise there is no question about that, but when you do the estimates based on the sales, the bulk of the revenue looks to be Z branded content. Their sales divisions, specifically Bandai and Toei made full page report on Xenoverse alone as well as their praise for Dokkan battle Z. As a matter of fact the largest rise in DVD sales was the original Dragonball and Z DVDs.

http://comicbook.com/anime/2017/11/21/d ... ion-money/
Toei Animation has seen a major uptick in its first financial quarter thanks to the Dragon Ball franchise, and given how massive it is right now there's no sign of stopping.

Toei recently released a financial report that revealed the company had made a profit in the first half of this financial quarter. As reported by Anime News Network, Toei reported "consolidated sales of 23.444 billion yen (about US$205 million), an 18.6% increase from the same period last year" as well as "an operating profit of 5.962 billion yen (US$52 million), which is a 24.7% increase." There was also "an ordinary income of 6.281 billion yen (US$55 million), which is a 36.2% increase" and the company's net income was 4.291 billion yen ($37 million USD) and that's increased by 25 percent overall.

But where is this increase coming from? Fruits of the Dragon Ball franchise. Total copyright and license sales increased overall with the Dragon Ball mobile game, Dragon Ball Z Dokkan Battle being a key factor in this area. The game has hit 200 million downloads worldwide, and even made the top of Apple's app sales in 14 different countries.

Also of note were its increase in anime production sales as Toei produced the likes of One Piece and Dragon Ball Super, which are two of the biggest shonen anime in Japan and the world at large. Anime News Network adds that anime sales had increased "from 1.697 billion yen (US$14 million) last year to 1.793 billion yen (US$15 million)," but the feature-length theatrical anime had decreased "by more than half from 998 million yen (US$8.7 million) last year to 421 million yen (US$3.6 million) during the same period."

In China and the United States, Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z blu-ray and DVD sales accounted for 17 percent of Toei's overall gross as they contributed about $34 million USD.

As Toei Animation heads into the next half of its financial quarter, licensing and overall gross sales are sure to increase given how strong of a showing Dragon Ball Super has in the United States, as not only the English subtitled version is available on streaming services like Crunchyroll and FunimationNow, the English language broadcast airs every week on Adult Swim.


Not only is the Dragon Ball franchise going strong in the anime scene, but fans worldwide will soon be able to duke it out as their favorite Dragon Ball Z characters in Arc System Works' Dragon Ball FighterZ.

Are you excited to hear Dragon Ball is still a profitable franchise?
Again, the other non Super related products are producing crazy nuumbers. You can clearly see by Toei's own admission that the Super anime sales are not contributing to much growth because their entire anime sales only grew 96 million yen. And that includes all anime sales. Super is working as a marketing tool but if their entire anime sales only increased 96 million yen a year and the Super anime alone costs at likely around 1 billion yen to make a year it's hard to argue that the anime in and of itself is making money. As stated if they can introduce new merchandise and characters minus the 1 billion yen cost, then yes they will.

Actually looking at the numbers again they LOST 4x as much in their theatrical anime releases as they gained in anime sales. So this makes even more sense why they would refocus on movies instead.

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Issei189
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Re: Why do you think Super is ending ?

Post by Issei189 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:21 am

Totamo wrote:Guys, its to focus on the movie and to rebrand the series.


The one piece movie fried Super's productions and the yugioh movie destroyed arc v and vrans.


Thats all there is to it.
This

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