Crunch time: Could U7 actually lose the tournament and be erased?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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MKCSTEALTH
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Re: Crunch time: Could U7 actually lose the tournament and be erased?

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:45 pm

To be fair, if we continue the trope of Goku having never won more than 1 tournament he's been throughout the franchise, it could be a possibility. I feel that he'll be eliminated before the end

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Re: Crunch time: Could U7 actually lose the tournament and be erased?

Post by DHM211 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:04 pm

Imo it would be kinda cool Supers last episodes ended right after Zenos squished their hands and the the last thing we see is universe 7's faces as they're erased.

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Re: Crunch time: Could U7 actually lose the tournament and be erased?

Post by Kataphrut » Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:43 pm

If that does happen, it'll be proof positive that the show ending is only temporary. Because they still need to square with End of Z.

In that scenario, you'd end with the erasure of Universe 7, Goku giving a farewell to his friends and by extension, the audience. Then, the next story, whatever that is, would begin with Jiren or whoever making the wish on the SBDs to restore all the erased Universes.

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Re: Crunch time: Could U7 actually lose the tournament and be erased?

Post by Black Hawk » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:00 pm

With Gohan-kun out, I don't see any way Universe Seven could possibly win; that doesn't necessarily mean that Universe Eleven will win or that Universe Seven will be erased, but I have zero belief that Universe Seven will make it to the end of this victoriously.

There's no way No. 17 and Golden Freeza can defeat Top, especially if he becomes a destroyer deity, and there's also no way Gokū and Vegeta can deal with both Jiren and Top after No. 17 and Freeza are eliminated. Even if Top wasn't an issue, I don't think Gokū can defeat Jiren, with or without Vegeta. I just don't see any way for Universe Seven to win.

Looking back, due to just how absurdly powerful Jiren is, I don't think Universe Seven ever had any chance of winning. I think it might have been over from the moment Belmod convinced Jiren to enter. Given Jiren's statement in the manga that, if something were to happen with Universe Eleven, he'd immediately leave the tournament and return to Universe Eleven, how feasible is it that this might actually happen? That's the only way I can see Universe Seven winning, but, even then, I think that would have to take place a good while before the final few minutes.
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Re: Crunch time: Could U7 actually lose the tournament and be erased?

Post by BlueBasilisk » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:28 pm

No. At worst it'll end in a draw.

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Re: Crunch time: Could U7 actually lose the tournament and be erased?

Post by precita » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:39 pm

BlueBasilisk wrote:No. At worst it'll end in a draw.
I think if time is running out, Jiren/Toppo will stop holding back and just unleash all their power on Goku/Vegeta to get rid of them.

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Re: Crunch time: Could U7 actually lose the tournament and be erased?

Post by shadowmaria » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:55 pm

Nah

Frieza will be the last man standing, he'll get returned to Otherworld just as he's about to make his wish, and then the wish to restore everyone and everything will be made.

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Re: Crunch time: Could U7 actually lose the tournament and be erased?

Post by Totamo » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:32 am

I would be enraged. People, our heroes having only truly won in a single arc, they need a victory, a real victory.

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Re: Crunch time: Could U7 actually lose the tournament and be erased?

Post by fadeddreams5 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:54 am

There are really only three outcomes:
-Goku wins and wishes all the universes lost in this arc back.
-Jiren wins and wishes all the universes lost back--possibly even the ones erased prior to this arc.
-Frieza is the last man standing and wishes for full control of the gods.

I predict #2 may be it, given the hints of Jiren's wish we've gotten. This will be immediately debunked the second he reveals his wish through in-battle dialogue. At which point, you know #1 will happen instead because this show is very predictable.
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Re: Crunch time: Could U7 actually lose the tournament and be erased?

Post by sangofe » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:52 am

precita wrote:All of Goku/Vegeta's attacks on Jiren have barely done anything, and we've already seen Jiren nearly knocked out of the ring to jump back up. Now we have "God Toppo" who is seemingly even more powerful than before, and will likely plow through 17 and Freeza. Vegeta's new blue sparkly form hasn't made much of a difference at least so far, and Ultra Instinct also seemed to have trouble with Jiren.

Barring something like U7 winning by time since 3 members over just Jiren/Toppo would make U7 "win" by having more fighters left...or them using fusion and Vegito again, I don't see how they can win.

With the knowledge of the hiatus, maybe U7 gets erased? And it will be a meta reason for no more show? Can't have a series without Goku and co.
They've said Dragon Ball would continue. How would it if that happens?

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Re: Crunch time: Could U7 actually lose the tournament and be erased?

Post by Venus » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:10 am

Such a ending would be dark as hell, much darker than how the Future Trunks Arc ending was, However it's probably not going to happen unless:

U7 get's erased and screen goes black, after like 1 minute of nothing, the screen starts to show the tournament and U7 again, together with the other universes, everyone wondering what happened, and the Great Priest making an announcement: "The winner of the Tournament of Power, Jiren the grey has wished for all universes to be restored in order to give them a second chance regarding their mortal level".

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Re: Crunch time: Could U7 actually lose the tournament and be erased?

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:15 am

They could lose, but I would rather Universe 7, and more importantly the main cast, win a major battle for once in Super. They've come out the losers in every major arc so far and I feel for a high stakes tournament like this, that the main cast should get to win the big one. They deserve it now more than ever.

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Re: Crunch time: Could U7 actually lose the tournament and be erased?

Post by Lionel » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:55 am

I wouldn't mind that if it was somehow going to tie into a future arc. Since Super is coming to an end, though, I think the end result will be either Goku somehow pulling off a major upset win or Jiren choosing to resurrect everyone with his wish. Something so consequential and dark like our heroes' universe being erased would probably be a bit too much for these writers. Yes, Trunks' world was erased but that was an alternate timeline where all of humanity had been killed anyway.

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Re: Crunch time: Could U7 actually lose the tournament and be erased?

Post by TheOtherDude » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:27 am

Black Hawk wrote:With Gohan-kun out, I don't see any way Universe Seven could possibly win; that doesn't necessarily mean that Universe Eleven will win or that Universe Seven will be erased, but I have zero belief that Universe Seven will make it to the end of this victoriously.

There's no way No. 17 and Golden Freeza can defeat Top, especially if he becomes a destroyer deity, and there's also no way Gokū and Vegeta can deal with both Jiren and Top after No. 17 and Freeza are eliminated. Even if Top wasn't an issue, I don't think Gokū can defeat Jiren, with or without Vegeta. I just don't see any way for Universe Seven to win.

Looking back, due to just how absurdly powerful Jiren is, I don't think Universe Seven ever had any chance of winning. I think it might have been over from the moment Belmod convinced Jiren to enter. Given Jiren's statement in the manga that, if something were to happen with Universe Eleven, he'd immediately leave the tournament and return to Universe Eleven, how feasible is it that this might actually happen? That's the only way I can see Universe Seven winning, but, even then, I think that would have to take place a good while before the final few minutes.
You speak as if the only way they can win is if they beat them head on.... Everybody knows the winner is the universe with the most remaining fighters in the ring.

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Re: Crunch time: Could U7 actually lose the tournament and be erased?

Post by Black Hawk » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:42 pm

TheOtherDude wrote:You speak as if the only way they can win is if they beat them head on.... Everybody knows the winner is the universe with the most remaining fighters in the ring.
The problem is that, unless Jiren just loses all track of time, time isn't on Universe Seven's side, either. If Jiren knows how much time is left, there's nothing that can stop him from powering up and eliminating Gokū and Vegeta as they currently are in an instant; if anything, this makes time an ally to Universe Eleven as it puts a time limit on how long Gokū has to make something happen. Without Ultra Instinct Omen's perfect defense at the very least, there's nothing he can do to stop Jiren from swatting him out like a fly if Jiren so chooses.
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Re: Crunch time: Could U7 actually lose the tournament and be erased?

Post by TheOtherDude » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:18 pm

Black Hawk wrote:
TheOtherDude wrote:You speak as if the only way they can win is if they beat them head on.... Everybody knows the winner is the universe with the most remaining fighters in the ring.
The problem is that, unless Jiren just loses all track of time, time isn't on Universe Seven's side, either. If Jiren knows how much time is left, there's nothing that can stop him from powering up and eliminating Gokū and Vegeta as they currently are in an instant; if anything, this makes time an ally to Universe Eleven as it puts a time limit on how long Gokū has to make something happen. Without Ultra Instinct Omen's perfect defense at the very least, there's nothing he can do to stop Jiren from swatting him out like a fly if Jiren so chooses.
Yeah if Jiren wanted to end this, he could’ve done it at any point. But hasn’t because of plot. Part of me thinks they might take a similar path as the manga and make Jiren out to be someone who doesn’t want to contribute to destroying other universes to save his own. Everyone is always going after him. Not the other way around.

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Re: Crunch time: Could U7 actually lose the tournament and be erased?

Post by Black Hawk » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:39 pm

TheOtherDude wrote:Yeah if Jiren wanted to end this, he could’ve done it at any point. But hasn’t because of plot. Part of me thinks they might take a similar path as the manga and make Jiren out to be someone who doesn’t want to contribute to destroying other universes to save his own. Everyone is always going after him. Not the other way around.
Additionally, I think it also has something to do with Jiren's motive. He's a lot like Gokū in that he wants strong opponents around to fight against because he seeks to endlessly grow stronger; at least, that's how I interpret Jiren's statement that he seeks that which lies beyond strength. If he used his full power against Gokū at any point before the end of the tournament, he'd potentially lose the chance to fight someone truly incredible, assuming Gokū can properly utilize or even master Ultra Instinct Omen before the tournament ends.
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Re: Crunch time: Could U7 actually lose the tournament and be erased?

Post by emperior » Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:16 pm

It could be a cool twist if U7 ended and shortly later Goku and the other find themselves revived on Earth, and wonder what the hell happened. Then they discover someone wished them back with the Super DBs and that many years have passed ever since the ToP (time on Earth wouldn't have passed because it was erased) and the multiverse is in chaos.
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Re: Crunch time: Could U7 actually lose the tournament and be erased?

Post by Black Hawk » Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:49 pm

emperior wrote:It could be a cool twist if U7 ended and shortly later Goku and the other find themselves revived on Earth, and wonder what the hell happened. Then they discover someone wished them back with the Super DBs and that many years have passed ever since the ToP (time on Earth wouldn't have passed because it was erased) and the multiverse is in chaos.
I really like this idea; it would make the potential cliffhanger coming up (unless we get an actual conclusion) all the more tense and impressive as we wait for the film this December and any Dragon Ball series that may take place thereafter.

Just out of curiosity, does the concept of Age (as in Age 784 being the year Gokū left with Oob) as we know it apply in the same manner to other universes? If not, then your idea could very well work.
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Re: Crunch time: Could U7 actually lose the tournament and be erased?

Post by Kanious » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:23 pm

i can see that happening. UI Goku doesn't appear to be ANYWHERE near Jiren in strenght. I doubt that "mastering" the form will be a massive giant difference that will suddenly make Goku in the same level or stronger than Jiren.

Maybe U7 can win by having more fighters in the stage than U11... Maybe we'll have a fusion... or U7 winning by some kind of strategy that will not involve being stronger than Jiren... or Jiren wins. Who knows.

DBS is so unpredictable that I can't be sure about my guessings.

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