Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

[ZenkaiBoosts]

What about when 17 said "I guess me sacrificing myself makes me more human and I like that"

That was am unbelievable quote. That didn't touch you?

Or how his sister crying for him in the stands?

Really think about it

17 knew he was going to die, yet in the face of imminent death, remained as fearless as possible so that he could protect Goku and give universe 7 a fighting chance against this beast of a monster Jiren

17 won't even get to see how UI perfect Goku avenged him

The last thing 17 would've seen before dying was Jiren's blast

17 risked it all to give Goku and universe 7 a fighting chance evem though 17 will never get to be there and see it or enjoy Goku's victory with Goku and his sister.

17's scarficie in episode 127 was suprisingly really deep and touching.

As someone who hated the focus 17 was getting in this tournament (also hate the Vegeta focus. Gohan was shafted in favor of 17 and Vegeta) this episode turned me into a 17 fan after it was done

17's sacrifice>>>>Vegeta's so called one in episode 126.

Relax dude.
Something just felt missing to me.
And Vegeta's 'sacrifice' was even worse last episode.

Yep it was. I already said that.

I'm actually very calm. You seem to be mad for some reason. When you put your opinion out there on a message board people dont have to agree with you and are free to disagree with you. That's how it works. You have to be willing to discuss.

[Asura]

Ehh... that was okay. Much better than last week for sure, but still pretty disappointing. I don't understand Freeza's writing in this episode. He's all pissed at Jiren beating him even though Jiren never touched him yet? He's just been getting tossed around like a ragdoll, and every time he gets back up it's the same shit. 17's self sacrifice was good in concept... not so much in execution. The impact just wasn't there at all, I wasn't feeling any emotion out of this scene and that's really bad considering I love 17.

Next episode looks very mediocre. Sheesh, the U7 vs U11 finale has been really disappointing thus far, the only episode that even stood out to me was 125. C'mon this is supposed to be the climax fight of the arc, why's it so boring?

[ZenkaiBoosts]

17 sure did go out with a bang!

[spoiler]Jokes aside, 17 did pretty damn great this arc and I'm glad he lasted as long as he did.Neat to see Jiren's backstory but I still don't care much for him. Also gonna make a guess that the evil doer Jiren couldn't beat comes back in the next series. Also Freeza sure was angry this episode like I don't even get why he was so mad at Jiren. Like he seemed pretty chill after Toppo beat him and yet was absolutely furious at Jiren. Dunno just stuck out to me as a bit odd.[/spoiler]

This episode turned me into a fan of 17.

This episode (127) was so amazing. It had everything. Emotion. Excitement. Suspense etc

We got Jiren backstory.

More showings of Goku's superior fight intelligence and brilliant strategic mind and martial arts mastery...

And yet despite Goku's startegic efforts, the unstoppable Jiren still overwhelmed their efforts....

They did a great job of building Jiren up to an even greater more terrifying threat then God of destruction Toppo

The pacing was flawless with a smooth flow to everything

I also loved how instead of the build up coming first and then the fight....this episode put a twist on it...the big fight with great fight choreography and epic music almost came instantly into the episode, then we got all the build up, dialogue, backstory etc

And then everything culminated into the last act where andriod 17 sacrificed himself to save Goku and give universe 7 a fighting chance to survive against this monster of strength Jiren. The greatest protagonist the legendary Son Goku has ever come across. But Goku has a habit of over coming the odds.

Man, the ending legit brought a tear to my eye lol.

Android 18 crying for her brothers sacrifice

Android 17 despite knowing his death was imminent showing no fear and standing tall with pride for his universe and Goku

When 17 said, "to sacrifice makes me more human and I like that"

That was touching.


Flawless episode. This is what Vegeta's elimination should've been like in episode 126...and UI Goku vs Jiren should've started this episode so we could have more episodes of UI perfect Goku vs Jiren

Anyway, I'm so pumped for episodes 129 and 130. Thank you Toriyama and Toei.

17's scarficie wont go in vain. It the end its what will have allowed Goku to transform into perfect UI and get avengence on Jiren

I wouldn't call this a flawless episode but it was pretty good, far better than last weeks episode. Honestly dunno wether or not 17 death will be in vain or not. Goku has a pretty iffy track record of winning tournaments and Jiren is still no selling everything, but guess will see soon enough.

It was flawless to me. All though I don't actively nit pick.

[Dbzfan94]

I'm actually very calm. You seem to be mad for some reason. When you put your opinion out there on a message board people dont have to agree with you and are free to disagree with you. That's how it works. You have to be willing to discuss.

You went on a rant to me because I said something was missing from that scene.

You say you agree, but then you say it's flawless. Which is it?

[julianix]

Jiren is op

Frieza stay hiding a bit longer. Gather your wits my man.

17 is the mvp.. I mean his personality is awesome. He's a smart don't flinch kind of dude. Mvp!

[Dbzfan94]

17's self sacrifice was good in concept... not so much in execution. The impact just wasn't there at all, I wasn't feeling any emotion out of this scene and that's really bad considering I love 17.
Next episode looks very mediocre. Sheesh, the U7 vs U11 finale has been really disappointing thus far, the only episode that even stood out to me was 125. C'mon this is supposed to be the climax fight of the arc, why's it so boring?

That's what I'm saying! It felt so tacked on.

[MegaBossMan]

The writing in that first half was kinda intolerable for me. Not the stamina thing, it's whatever fluff to help keep things interesting, but these characters really came across as basic caricatures, fit with Vegeta's trademark "Damn it!!!" schtick. Even Goku's strategy of "we just have to hit him really hard when he's not blocking" came across as incredibly stupid. Actually, no, you know what, that does sound like something Goku would come up with. And there was some neat strategies. And the 17-Jiren interactions were fun.

Okay, maybe the writing wasn't so bad on second glance.

The storyboard was fun and while the animation contained nothing notable, it was consistently good. I'm kinda disappointed they're really playing Jiren up as antagonistic when I thought he was supposed to be a morally-ambiguous victory for Universe 7, but I suppose I'll have to wait for the manga to spoil me in this regard.

[ZenkaiBoosts]

I'm actually very calm. You seem to be mad for some reason. When you put your opinion out there on a message board people dont have to agree with you and are free to disagree with you. That's how it works. You have to be willing to discuss.

You went on a rant to me because I said something was missing from that scene.

You say you agree, but then you say it's flawless. Which is it?

No where did I say I agree with you. I called the episode flawless (my opinion) in the conversation I've been having with Criticalthinker. Not you.

[Dbzfan94]

I'm actually very calm. You seem to be mad for some reason. When you put your opinion out there on a message board people dont have to agree with you and are free to disagree with you. That's how it works. You have to be willing to discuss.

You went on a rant to me because I said something was missing from that scene.

You say you agree, but then you say it's flawless. Which is it?

No where did I say I agree with you. I called the episode flawless (my opinion) in the conversation I've been having with Criticalthinker. Not you.

my bad, I misread your comment from earlier.

[8bitdee]

This episode proves just how bad of a main character Goku has become. 17's interactions with Jiren were more enjoyable and contributed more to the plot than the past dozens of episodes of Goku going "omg, you're like sooooo strong, let's fight!"

And yeah that backstory was as generic as they come and was definitely NOT worth the wait, but it did give Jiren a different angle to be looked at. He isn't all about justice, despite his refusal to kill and him acting like a savior. He's just been using justice as an excuse and justification, pretending to be a comrade, for his own selfish goals due his inability to let go of the past. So it did give him SOME sort of depth, but nothing worth gushing over.

17's coming back at the end, obviously, but I give kudos to the writers for that surprise. In a tournament where killing is prohibited, there has always been a lack of tension of someone fatally falling during a match, so as viewers we got accustomed to just worrying about the heroes falling off the stage and getting disqualified. So when someone actually died now, it was a neat curveball. This arc made me like 17 as a character when I had no real opinion of him back when watching DBZ.

Now back to the usual; Vegeta gets defeated and thrown aside once again so the boring main character can save the day. Yay.

[nato25]

I'm pretty mixed on this episode.

Everything about 17 this episode, on point. Dialogue, art, animation, strategy and of course a pretty shocking sacrifice, when I saw he didn't appear in the stands I was like... no.

But then Vegeta... Constantly gloating about his strength saying he can beat Jiren one on one... then why the **** haven't you done it yet. How ridiculous to watch Vegeta say he can beat him on his own repeatedly, it is making him look so damn stupid. This isn't like say against 18 where is was being cocky and just trying to show bravado. It's like he truly believes it here. And going full power seconds after fully exhausting his strength. The stamina issues reaallly weakened the impact of 17s sacrifice when Goku said he did it to let them heal.

Frieza's beating was entertaining but come on, why keep bringing him back for 30 seconds an episode, you could have kept him in the dark and done something really interesting with him. But nope, just bring him back to get beaten, an exact repeat of last episode.

And god damn could they have been anymore generic with Jiren's backstory. I reaaaly hope there is more to that story, like maybe belmoud was the great evil. The evil was just a purple aura with red eyes for gods sake, come on!

[Whatever]

Copied and pasted from the other thread:
The problem with Jiren's backstory isn't that it's generic (it is, btw). The issue here is when you realize what show you are watching: Dragon Ball. You know, the series where a baby is sent to Earth, clonks his head, and becomes a martial artist, training with multiple masters until he learns about his background as a member of an extinct warrior race, and eventually fulfills a prophecy from their culture, becoming a legendary warrior that is said to be virtually indestructable.

Goku is not the only person who trains and if anything it seems Jiren started training at a much stronger age than Goku.

The series where the prince of said race has all his people slaughtered by a space dictator, is held in bondage, and trains most of his life to become the strongest in the universe.

Vegeta only started to train after Freeza killed him.

Case in point, training has always been a major theme in this franchise. We understand that saiyans are a unique race that are genetically built to fight. Hence, they are unusually strong. So then, why is it that Jiren, a seemingly generic alien, is able to train, but unlike everyone else, can surpass even the gods and be unaffected by time itself (I still can't get over that)? Because he really, really likes being strong?

Ah yes the saiyans,whose average warrior was weaker than the generic Freeza soldier and weaker than Namekian farmers from the Dragon Clan(pretty much the equivalent of a white mage).Goku and Vegeta,just like Freeza and King Cold were the exception not the rule.

Jiren is most likely a prodigy just like all the other 1 million prodigies we had in DB and he has been training at a younger age than Goku.
I don't see how you cannot accept that when we have cases like child who was born from a weaker than average Saiyan and a human(pretty much the weakest race in db)somehow giving birth to a child that only trained for 5 years in his life being as strong as he is.

[Asura]

17's self sacrifice was good in concept... not so much in execution. The impact just wasn't there at all, I wasn't feeling any emotion out of this scene and that's really bad considering I love 17.
Next episode looks very mediocre. Sheesh, the U7 vs U11 finale has been really disappointing thus far, the only episode that even stood out to me was 125. C'mon this is supposed to be the climax fight of the arc, why's it so boring?

That's what I'm saying! It felt so tacked on.

Yes, tacked on is definitely how I would describe it, although the actual idea of 17 sacrificing himself is something I'm behind 100% and it's not something that feels tacked on. Somehow, they managed to screw that up this episode. There was very little build-up to it, he says like a single sentence, and then he's gone.

This episode could have been amazing had they given more focus on that moment instead of it being tacked on the last 2 minutes of the episode, and the music placement was a complete miss here as well. Where was the track from 118 when U6 and U2 got erased? Why is Super so hit and miss when it comes to writing emotional moments? Also this whole thing feels cheapened by the "sacrifice" during the last episode, or at least what was perceived as a sacrifice at the time. What is the point of doing that shit two episodes in a row? So disjointed... ugh.

[Li'l Lemmy]

Finally, 17 is out.

Too bad it was written so terribly and that the surrounding logic and events don't stack up to make it worth half a damn.

To me, mind you. My opinion. Opinion does not equal fact.

I suppose at this point I'm just kinda waiting for DBS to be over. This arc has really tried my patience, and that's saying something considering my feelings toward DBS in general.

Next week looks kind of interesting.

[ZenkaiBoosts]

You went on a rant to me because I said something was missing from that scene.

You say you agree, but then you say it's flawless. Which is it?

No where did I say I agree with you. I called the episode flawless (my opinion) in the conversation I've been having with Criticalthinker. Not you.

my bad, I misread your comment from earlier.

No worries.

[Totamo]

17 didnt deserve to go out like that.

It felt so tacked on and forced for emotion but ended up coming off as lifeless.

Explain because Goku and Vegeta were down and they were all about to get knocked out. This isn't like last week were Vegeta was winning.

There was literally no hope here.

I feel you're a worse version of HeroR. Whenever someone doesnt like Super you ump on with the defenses.

I never said he shouldnt have lost. I said the way he went out was bad.

You just did 2 things. Misjudged me and enraged me.

1. I have called Super the most disappointing thing to carry the dragon ball name

2. I have agreed with a ton of criticisms that even Doctor has made.

3. I have even argued with HeroR.


The problem with you lot, is you guys are pretending dragon ball is more than what it is and expect Super to be more than what Dragon ball was when we all know how the anime community feels about this anime/manga and its not good things or incorrect things.

Its hypocritical to call dragon ball my favorite anime and let things go there and not here and before you even say shit about GT, It was objectively the most consistent series of the four. I hate it for other reasons.

I have raised the sword and shield for Dragon ball and I am sure you have as well but it seems only one of us is remembering what we defended and the other is attacking super for what we were defending.

[Kaboom]

1)I’m getting really tired of seeing every last one of your posts being anti Vegeta posts. Thank goodness we have ignore buttons on here.
2) it amazes me that an episode that completely nerfs Jirens strength just for the sake of plot happens to be your favorite episode so far. It’s a testament to how your biased personality gives you such a flawed perspective of the series.

Pay this guy no mind. Literally everything that comes out this guys mouth is anti Vegeta.

Not even a week ago, you were already given a formal warning and account strike for exactly these types of dismissive and backhanded remarks towards fellow members. Please take that warning to heart so you don't earn even more. No more free warnings after this.

Let me gently caution everyone else on that note too. These episode discussion threads can get tense, and perusing through the last few pages I can already see some additional emerging snit. Please keep it friendly.

[Asura]

So what is Jiren's wish exactly? Is it to regain his emotions? Or perhaps regain his personality?

I'm kidding, but in all seriousness what is it supposed to be?

[ZenkaiBoosts]

This episode proves just how bad of a main character Goku has become. 17's interactions with Jiren were more enjoyable and contributed more to the plot than the past dozens of episodes of Goku going "omg, you're like sooooo strong, let's fight!"

.

When Goku and Jiren had their 1v 1 in episode 123, I enjoyed that immensely. Goku's superior fight IQ and strategy, plus their interactions etc.

You also have to keep in mind context and different peraonalities

Goku and Jiren are going to have different interactions because they both have incredible strength and fight to challenge themselfes

The interactions between Goku and Jiren up to this point had been more of a "friendly rivalry" ....

simply both trying to gauge each other, see the strength of the other, looking for a challenge" etc

Where as 17 is much weaker and simply wanted to try to get under Jiren's skin

You know for all the people always criticising the writing in Super, I'm surprised people still complain when the writing actually seems to be logically based on character personality traits etc.

Goku and Jiren are going to have much different interactions compared to 17 and Jiren etc

Even then, Goku and Jiren had one of the most talked about interactions of this arc

"So what do you fight for?"

"I seek strength beyond strength"

And then when Jiren asked Goku, Goku kind of seemed to struggle with how he would answer "well...uh...yeah I guess I fight to be strong too"

Keep in mind, based on episode 128 spoilers, it looks like Goku is going to be getting some development or break through

It says that, as Goku is intently watching Vegeta's last stand, Goku starts to become entrenched with feelings...something to that effect

This could be that big moment when Goku realizes what's at stake, and asks himself what's he's really fighting for, and has some kind of big break through

[Akeem]

This episode and show in general reminds me of when I would run into a public bathroom wanting to pee and find a giant poo in the toilet.

1/ Where does vegeta and goku keep getting energy from?

2/Why is jiren wasting time toying with them, did he forget about the time limit?

3/ How is 17 that strong?

4/This: ''We just have to hit him really hard when he's not blocking'' duuuuuuh! A friking child could have thought of that!

5/ jiren back story is so generic

Theres more but I'll stop there. Wont waste too much time on this crap.