Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Postby Amir » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:42 pm

I would also call 17's plan retarded but we all know 5 seconds can easily almost restore one's stamina so 17 took advantage of that flawed plot point.
Also, he did just save Goku and Vegeta so it was better than just doing nothing right?

Also, it make sense that Frieza is now brain-dead like on Namek after being abused both mentally and physically, but the issue started with episode 125 - Frieza was so cunning and playing it safe, but after Toppo turned GOD he went full Vegeta, arguably even worse for no reason.

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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Postby thezander » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:47 am

Amir wrote:I would also call 17's plan retarded but we all know 5 seconds can easily almost restore one's stamina so 17 took advantage of that flawed plot point.
Also, he did just save Goku and Vegeta so it was better than just doing nothing right?

Also, it make sense that Frieza is now brain-dead like on Namek after being abused both mentally and physically, but the issue started with episode 125 - Frieza was so cunning and playing it safe, but after Toppo turned GOD he went full Vegeta, arguably even worse for no reason.

What part of 17s plan was retarded? He had to block that attack in order to save them and the whole little bit of wait was like an after thought like "I just want a thanks" I think they are well aware that the little rest was not much however they blocked the attack.


Edit I'm not sure if the red came before or after. But I fixed it I guess

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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Postby Amir » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:45 am

thezander wrote:
Amir wrote:I would also call 17's plan retarded but we all know 5 seconds can easily almost restore one's stamina so 17 took advantage of that flawed plot point.
Also, he did just save Goku and Vegeta so it was better than just doing nothing right?

Also, it make sense that Frieza is now brain-dead like on Namek after being abused both mentally and physically, but the issue started with episode 125 - Frieza was so cunning and playing it safe, but after Toppo turned GOD he went full Vegeta, arguably even worse for no reason.

What part of 17s plan was retarded? He had to block that attack in order to save them and the whole little bit of wait was like an after thought like "I just want a thanks" I think they are well aware that the little rest was not much however they blocked the attack.


Edit I'm not sure if the red came before or after. But I fixed it I guess

That's exactly what I said, that besides the healing thing (that was the retarded thing) he also saved them so in the end his plan was fine.

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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Postby thezander » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:22 am

Amir wrote:
thezander wrote:
Amir wrote:I would also call 17's plan retarded but we all know 5 seconds can easily almost restore one's stamina so 17 took advantage of that flawed plot point.
Also, he did just save Goku and Vegeta so it was better than just doing nothing right?

Also, it make sense that Frieza is now brain-dead like on Namek after being abused both mentally and physically, but the issue started with episode 125 - Frieza was so cunning and playing it safe, but after Toppo turned GOD he went full Vegeta, arguably even worse for no reason.

What part of 17s plan was retarded? He had to block that attack in order to save them and the whole little bit of wait was like an after thought like "I just want a thanks" I think they are well aware that the little rest was not much however they blocked the attack.


Edit I'm not sure if the red came before or after. But I fixed it I guess

That's exactly what I said, that besides the healing thing (that was the retarded thing) he also saved them so in the end his plan was fine.

Why do previous pages of people think it was so dumb then? The healing thing honestly all they did was stand up barely. Vegeta should still be out from almost blowing himself up. And Goku took a way longer time recovering they first time with only being able to take steps against culifla and pear(?) . 17 I really think was just thinking to himself "well I hope this little bit of time was able to help you guys at all" not really print much weight into it

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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Postby ernesth100 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:35 am

Why are people complaining about Vegeta going back into Blue when Goku almost died like 5 times in the tournament and lost all his energy multiple times but literally regains it as he gets his ass handed to him and is still able to Kiao-Ken. :wtf:

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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Postby The Patrolman » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:41 am

ernesth100 wrote:Why are people complaining about Vegeta going back into Blue when Goku almost died like 5 times in the tournament and lost all his energy multiple times but literally regains it as he gets his ass handed to him and is still able to Kiao-Ken. :wtf:


Thats a problem too
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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Postby buutenks » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:02 pm

Jiren gets grazed a bit on his back and people freak out. Relax lol.

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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Postby Dbzfan94 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:07 pm

The Patrolman wrote:
ernesth100 wrote:Why are people complaining about Vegeta going back into Blue when Goku almost died like 5 times in the tournament and lost all his energy multiple times but literally regains it as he gets his ass handed to him and is still able to Kiao-Ken. :wtf:


Thats a problem too


It was just as stupid every time Goku did it. At least thats my view.

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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Postby dbzfan7 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:54 pm

Huh? What happened to the vocal 17 fans? Not an insult or anything but this episode airs as the swan song for 17, and none of them have anything to say?
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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Postby TheDevilsCorpse » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:25 pm

Nickolaidas wrote:I'm sorry, how did I broke the forum guidelines again? By calling #17's sacrifice what it was? Can you honestly think of a better word to call a plan which basically boils down to "I'll kill myself in order to give Goku five seconds (literally) to rest"? No seriously, how do you call a plan like that?

I get that this is a DB fansite, and negativity isn't its strongest suit, but still we *should* be allowed to call a spade a spade.

Amir wrote:I would also call 17's plan retarded but we all know 5 seconds can easily almost restore one's stamina so 17 took advantage of that flawed plot point.
Also, he did just save Goku and Vegeta so it was better than just doing nothing right?

Also, it make sense that Frieza is now brain-dead like on Namek after being abused both mentally and physically, but the issue started with episode 125 - Frieza was so cunning and playing it safe, but after Toppo turned GOD he went full Vegeta, arguably even worse for no reason.

Words matter. They have meanings. Your choice of them can not only reflect poorly on yourself, but can be hurtful to others. That's something Kanzenshuu doesn't support.

Stupid? Idiotic? Moronic? Foolish? Any of them lend themselves to a better phrasing of the points you're trying to make, while falling more in line with our community guidelines. Last free warning guys.
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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Postby Vegeta_Sama » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:12 pm

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:
Nickolaidas wrote:I'm sorry, how did I broke the forum guidelines again? By calling #17's sacrifice what it was? Can you honestly think of a better word to call a plan which basically boils down to "I'll kill myself in order to give Goku five seconds (literally) to rest"? No seriously, how do you call a plan like that?

I get that this is a DB fansite, and negativity isn't its strongest suit, but still we *should* be allowed to call a spade a spade.

Amir wrote:I would also call 17's plan retarded but we all know 5 seconds can easily almost restore one's stamina so 17 took advantage of that flawed plot point.
Also, he did just save Goku and Vegeta so it was better than just doing nothing right?

Also, it make sense that Frieza is now brain-dead like on Namek after being abused both mentally and physically, but the issue started with episode 125 - Frieza was so cunning and playing it safe, but after Toppo turned GOD he went full Vegeta, arguably even worse for no reason.

Words matter. They have meanings. Your choice of them can not only reflect poorly on yourself, but can be hurtful to others. That's something Kanzenshuu doesn't support.

Stupid? Idiotic? Moronic? Foolish? Any of them lend themselves to a better phrasing of the points you're trying to make, while falling more in line with our community guidelines. Last free warning guys.

Come on man, that's ridiculous. Let the man express himself however he wants, it's not the end of the world if he uses the word retarded, it's not like he's referring to someone in particular. Everyone who gets offended by that word in that context is an oversensitive bitch, and I don't know how he could last this long on the internet
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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Postby Nickolaidas » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:28 pm

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:Words matter. They have meanings. Your choice of them can not only reflect poorly on yourself, but can be hurtful to others. That's something Kanzenshuu doesn't support.


Hurtful to others? Like whom? #17? Are you for real?

Are we really going to be politically correct about the reasoning of fictional characters now? Or is this simply a 'clever' way of preventing anyone from giving harsh criticism where it's due?

I don't care whether it's your first or last free warning. The fact that I'm being disciplined because I insulted the IQ of a fictional character is beyond ridiculous.

thezander wrote:Why do previous pages of people think it was so dumb then?


Because Goku and Vegeta were unable to move but after 5 seconds of rest, they'll be up and about like nothing happened. That's dumb on its own, but the writers have pinned themselves up to a wall now and don't really know what to do.

They created a humongously powerful enemy and they don't know how to make him damage the heroes enough to make him look awesome, yet at the same time have them able to keep going without destroying any sense of suspension of disbelief.

I still think that there was no need to make Jiren so inhumanly strong. Since the U7 crew mowed down through 60 enemies, it would be safe to assume that they would be dead tired right now and Jiren could give them a really hard time without being so powerful to put a GoD to shame. He could've been SSBKKx20 levels of power and could still pound his opponents since they would be coming after him with only 30-40% of their stamina and strength intact.

Now they're silently nerfing Jiren in order to make the heroes look like they're draining his health and stamina bit by bit and make his eventual downfall look reasonable. Except that they don't. It looks lazy, incredibly chaotic in terms of writing consistency and arbitrary.

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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Postby Amir » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:12 pm

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:
Nickolaidas wrote:I'm sorry, how did I broke the forum guidelines again? By calling #17's sacrifice what it was? Can you honestly think of a better word to call a plan which basically boils down to "I'll kill myself in order to give Goku five seconds (literally) to rest"? No seriously, how do you call a plan like that?

I get that this is a DB fansite, and negativity isn't its strongest suit, but still we *should* be allowed to call a spade a spade.

Amir wrote:I would also call 17's plan retarded but we all know 5 seconds can easily almost restore one's stamina so 17 took advantage of that flawed plot point.
Also, he did just save Goku and Vegeta so it was better than just doing nothing right?

Also, it make sense that Frieza is now brain-dead like on Namek after being abused both mentally and physically, but the issue started with episode 125 - Frieza was so cunning and playing it safe, but after Toppo turned GOD he went full Vegeta, arguably even worse for no reason.

Words matter. They have meanings. Your choice of them can not only reflect poorly on yourself, but can be hurtful to others. That's something Kanzenshuu doesn't support.

Stupid? Idiotic? Moronic? Foolish? Any of them lend themselves to a better phrasing of the points you're trying to make, while falling more in line with our community guidelines. Last free warning guys.

LMAO. So calling something about a cartoon retarded is hurtful to others now? Then it's their problem for being butthurt over a cartoon. I mean it's not the same as calling someone retarded personally, now that would be disrespectful and rude.
With that logic I can say having different opinions can also be hurtful to others because of the mere disagreement, people will get mad and ''that is something Kanzenshuu doesn't support''.

Also if you truly think using the word retarded about something cartoon-related is offensive to others, then it would also offend them if I said it was foolish, moronic or idiotic, because the mere fact I called out something in the cartoon will be ''hurtful'' to them. This is preposterous.

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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Postby jeffbr92 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:35 pm

Yeah, I also don't agree... I mean calling something stupid is different from calling someone stupid.
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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Postby JazzMazz » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:12 pm

Asura wrote:
H3ct0r_17 wrote:
Asura wrote:
I don’t think you said anything wrong either. Are we really going to be this PC here now to get upset at the word “retarded” being used?

Because I agree, it was retarded. Even if you don’t factor in the fact that one of the main reasons he did it was to give Goku and Vegeta 5 more seconds of rest (Goku shouldn’t have even said anything so this wouldn’t be as big of a point as it is), why did he even blow himself up when he could have just taken the hit and let Jiren kill him instead, thereby disqualifying him? Surely they could have written this scene where 17 sacrifices himself without getting hit first by Jiren’s attack so this wouldn’t be an issue. To me it really is such a wasted opportunity. A good concept, and a retarded execution, because yeah killing yourself instead of letting someone else kill you in a tournament where killing disqualifies the person is pretty retarded.


How can you be so sure that 17 was going to get killed by Jiren's blast even if he lowered his guard? Jiren isn't that stupid to get himself disqualified because he knew Goku, Vegeta and Frieza were heavily wounded/unconscious.

The blast was going to ring all of them and 17 had to sacrifice to stop Jiren's attack as Supreme Old Kai said, because there was no other option as there was nowhere to run or in condition to fight back.


There was an entire half an arena left, including beneath them too. There's plenty of arena all over the place. Considering Toppo was literally throwing around destruction which can erase someone from existence, the whole "he wouldn't be stupid enough to actually fire a lethal attack" explanation doesn't really fly anymore. I would have fully agreed with you before 126, but given the atrocious writing we sometimes get, it kinda flips things on its head. The blast wasn't even as big as the area they were standing on, and given we know that there was floor underneath them, the way in which 17 decides to handle this is pretty dumb when you consider how smart he's been in the past. He could have easily just destroyed the floor underneath Goku & Vegeta, or better yet he could have just shielded them with him and then jumped away. We've seen that he can shield other people as well as himself and have them move with him (as he did with Toppo).

The problem with a self sacrifice in a tournament like this, in which no killing is allowed in the first place, means that there should be NO OTHER OPTION AT ALL. Here's an idea as to how you actually make this work. Make it so 17 is down on the ground like Goku & Vegeta and can't move. This limits his mobility meaning there's no chance for him to grab anyone and run away or dodge the attack. Then, put them on the very edge of the rock and emphasize the point that there literally is nowhere to run by showing how there's no other rocks or anything around them. If we completely ignore the emotional side of this sacrifice (which was done poorly too), the sacrifice needs to have logical impact to truly hit the point home that there is nothing else he could have done.

Take Majin Vegeta's sacrifice for example. There was nowhere he could run, nothing he could do, his only chance of winning against Buu was to sacrifice himself for everyone else and go out in a final explosion. There was no other way. Even if we completely ignore the emotional aspect of Vegeta's sacrifice, the sacrifice hits that much harder when you realize this is the only thing he could do. Compare this with 126 where Vegeta does the same move and it's retarded simply because there was no need to even do it. He was already winning against Toppo. If Vegeta actually sacrificed himself there, and ignoring the emotional impact of that scene, the sacrifice would be so laughably stupid because there wasn't enough reason for him to sacrifice himself, and there were many things he could have done without resorting to killing himself.

With the way 17 was handled in this episode, they didn't limit him enough. He was pretty much unharmed the entire episode, and he has infinite energy, meaning he pretty much still has access to his full span of abilities, and given how the scene itself was presented the setting allowed for him to do more than just stand there and kill himself. Making it so Goku & Vegeta can't even move and having 17 defend them and sacrifice himself is a great idea, but like I said when there are inconsistencies and holes in that logic it kinda falls apart.

But, there was no other option, if 17 didn't erase that big blast there would have been nothing left to fall back upon, since it would have also been caught up in the explosion.

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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Postby Asura » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:25 pm

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:
Nickolaidas wrote:I'm sorry, how did I broke the forum guidelines again? By calling #17's sacrifice what it was? Can you honestly think of a better word to call a plan which basically boils down to "I'll kill myself in order to give Goku five seconds (literally) to rest"? No seriously, how do you call a plan like that?

I get that this is a DB fansite, and negativity isn't its strongest suit, but still we *should* be allowed to call a spade a spade.

Amir wrote:I would also call 17's plan retarded but we all know 5 seconds can easily almost restore one's stamina so 17 took advantage of that flawed plot point.
Also, he did just save Goku and Vegeta so it was better than just doing nothing right?

Also, it make sense that Frieza is now brain-dead like on Namek after being abused both mentally and physically, but the issue started with episode 125 - Frieza was so cunning and playing it safe, but after Toppo turned GOD he went full Vegeta, arguably even worse for no reason.

Words matter. They have meanings. Your choice of them can not only reflect poorly on yourself, but can be hurtful to others. That's something Kanzenshuu doesn't support.

Stupid? Idiotic? Moronic? Foolish? Any of them lend themselves to a better phrasing of the points you're trying to make, while falling more in line with our community guidelines. Last free warning guys.


Sorry, but this is absolutely insane. Over the past few months I've seen the moderation team taking a more social justice approach to certain topics, but I didn't think we've come so far that using the word retarded, not even directed at another person mind you, is now going to be something that you can get warned, and by extension banned for.

If this is the direction the website is going in, then it's really quite concerning for me as I'm sure it is for many others. A while ago I saw a post where someone likened this place to a Kindergarten. I was laughing then, I'm not laughing now.

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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Postby precita » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:14 am

Asura wrote:
TheDevilsCorpse wrote:
Nickolaidas wrote:I'm sorry, how did I broke the forum guidelines again? By calling #17's sacrifice what it was? Can you honestly think of a better word to call a plan which basically boils down to "I'll kill myself in order to give Goku five seconds (literally) to rest"? No seriously, how do you call a plan like that?

I get that this is a DB fansite, and negativity isn't its strongest suit, but still we *should* be allowed to call a spade a spade.

Amir wrote:I would also call 17's plan retarded but we all know 5 seconds can easily almost restore one's stamina so 17 took advantage of that flawed plot point.
Also, he did just save Goku and Vegeta so it was better than just doing nothing right?

Also, it make sense that Frieza is now brain-dead like on Namek after being abused both mentally and physically, but the issue started with episode 125 - Frieza was so cunning and playing it safe, but after Toppo turned GOD he went full Vegeta, arguably even worse for no reason.

Words matter. They have meanings. Your choice of them can not only reflect poorly on yourself, but can be hurtful to others. That's something Kanzenshuu doesn't support.

Stupid? Idiotic? Moronic? Foolish? Any of them lend themselves to a better phrasing of the points you're trying to make, while falling more in line with our community guidelines. Last free warning guys.


Sorry, but this is absolutely insane. Over the past few months I've seen the moderation team taking a more social justice approach to certain topics, but I didn't think we've come so far that using the word retarded, not even directed at another person mind you, is now going to be something that you can get warned, and by extension banned for.

If this is the direction the website is going in, then it's really quite concerning for me as I'm sure it is for many others. A while ago I saw a post where someone likened this place to a Kindergarten. I was laughing then, I'm not laughing now.


Most of us range in the 20-30 year old range. We're all mostly adults here, besides a few younger teens. There's no reason people should be talking like this is the schoolyard playground. We're not in the year 1999 anymore. Some stuff I've seen people said here would get them banned immediately if they said it on other forums.

Either way, 17's plan would be ridiculous if this was DBZ which had realistic stamina issues and power scaling, but in Super they have Goku/Vegeta regain stamina in like 5 seconds...so I guess in this writing style the plan was sound.

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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Postby MajinMan » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:45 am

17’s plan wasn’t bad AT ALL.

Here’s the situation they were in: Either 17 stops Jiren’s attack, or they all get ringed out and erased by Zeno. 17 wasn’t only thinking about stamina there, he was also keeping them inbounds, prolonging the fight. The only option he had was to sacrifice himself. If he just let everyone, including himself, get knocked out, they would have all died anyway due to Zeno. He’s basically hoping that Goku and Vegeta can pull something out their ass to beat or outlast Jiren in the final 3 minutes. It had to be done.
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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Postby TheShadowEmperor8055 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:47 am

dbzfan7 wrote:Huh? What happened to the vocal 17 fans? Not an insult or anything but this episode airs as the swan song for 17, and none of them have anything to say?

I was wondering the same exact thing. :think:
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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Postby thezander » Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:40 am

17 went out a total baller and they probably won't even bring him back. I think Vegeta had a lot of respect for him too even if it didn't seem like it. I really liked that he got to antagonize jiren a little bit too in classic Android fashion. I hope Goku picked that up during the remainder of his fight and uses it. The only stupid thing about 17 is the obvious but it's clearly there for a reason to perhaps show his naivety about what's going on and what super dragon Balls are. Then again if he really wanted a cruise he could have collected the Earth balls but whatever


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