Android 17: One of the best things to come out of DBS

[FortuneSSJ]

I never cared about his character until he appeared in Super. If he doesn't have thousands of fans now, nothing will do for him.

I still remember when Toei released his own hype video and a lot of us started wondering if they weren't going over the top, because he didn't seem to be a fan favourite. In the end, it turned out to be justified. All the hype around his character was worthy.

[supersaiyanZero]

17 is one of the ONLY good things to come out of Super. In retrospect, it's not that surprising considering the writers pretty much left him alone except for a few moments here and there and thus didn't get an opportunity to ruin his character like they pretty much did to everyone else.

[KingKaash]

79 other fighters against Jiren and so far only Android 17 was able to deal damage to Jiren. That shows how good Android 17 is

*69

FTFY

Thanks for the correction. Yes most definitely 69!

[Whatever]

It's funny. I'm sure if I mentioned on here a few years ago that I'd like to see 17 make a comeback, I'd get a lot of "The story doesn't always go the way you want. Toriyama forgets characters. Get over it" or "Sometimes, characters are retired. Stop crying about it" replies. That's just how the internet replies to opinions. And then last night, all kinds of reaction videos and posts were crying about 17's fate - proving he's left a mark as a classic DB character similar to Piccolo and Vegeta. Oh, the irony. Super's version of 17 has also garnered a lot of cool merch (figures, cards, etc.) in Japan, he's a DLC in Xenoverse 2 and he's even rumored to be a DLC character in FighterZ - which we'll be awesome with how they can use his barrier technique. It just sucks 18 wasn't handled the same way, but this is shonen after all - I guess....

BUT MAN, I CAN'T WAIT FOR CHUCK HUBER AND THE OTHER 17 VA's TO WORK WITH THIS MATERIAL AND SEE HOW FAR THEIR CHARACTER HAS COME IN DEVELOPMENT!!!!

Yeah to think 17 went from being remebered just for his great fight with Piccolo to a fan favourite.
Also sure 17 has been great and has gotten good treatment and all.
But what more did you want for 18?She got way better treatment than about half of the team which is full of males.
Better and older characters than her got even less.

[Amir]

He along with Hit, Goku Black and Frieza is the best thing to come out of DBS.

[TheDipDap1234]

It's funny. I'm sure if I mentioned on here a few years ago that I'd like to see 17 make a comeback, I'd get a lot of "The story doesn't always go the way you want. Toriyama forgets characters. Get over it" or "Sometimes, characters are retired. Stop crying about it" replies. That's just how the internet replies to opinions. And then last night, all kinds of reaction videos and posts were crying about 17's fate - proving he's left a mark as a classic DB character similar to Piccolo and Vegeta. Oh, the irony. Super's version of 17 has also garnered a lot of cool merch (figures, cards, etc.) in Japan, he's a DLC in Xenoverse 2 and he's even rumored to be a DLC character in FighterZ - which we'll be awesome with how they can use his barrier technique. It just sucks 18 wasn't handled the same way, but this is shonen after all - I guess....

BUT MAN, I CAN'T WAIT FOR CHUCK HUBER AND THE OTHER 17 VA's TO WORK WITH THIS MATERIAL AND SEE HOW FAR THEIR CHARACTER HAS COME IN DEVELOPMENT!!!!

Yeah to think 17 went from being remebered just for his great fight with Piccolo to a fan favourite.
Also sure 17 has been great and has gotten good treatment and all.
But what more did you want for 18?She got way better treatment than about half of the team which is full of males.
Better and older characters than her got even less.

It would have been nice to see 18 use some new techniques, or maybe even the kienzan again. Also saying she got better treatment than almost half of the team is questionable. The only ones who were treated worse than her were Krillin, Tien and Piccolo in my opinion.

[Michsi]

It's funny. I'm sure if I mentioned on here a few years ago that I'd like to see 17 make a comeback, I'd get a lot of "The story doesn't always go the way you want. Toriyama forgets characters. Get over it" or "Sometimes, characters are retired. Stop crying about it" replies. That's just how the internet replies to opinions. And then last night, all kinds of reaction videos and posts were crying about 17's fate - proving he's left a mark as a classic DB character similar to Piccolo and Vegeta. Oh, the irony. Super's version of 17 has also garnered a lot of cool merch (figures, cards, etc.) in Japan, he's a DLC in Xenoverse 2 and he's even rumored to be a DLC character in FighterZ - which we'll be awesome with how they can use his barrier technique. It just sucks 18 wasn't handled the same way, but this is shonen after all - I guess....

BUT MAN, I CAN'T WAIT FOR CHUCK HUBER AND THE OTHER 17 VA's TO WORK WITH THIS MATERIAL AND SEE HOW FAR THEIR CHARACTER HAS COME IN DEVELOPMENT!!!!

Yeah to think 17 went from being remebered just for his great fight with Piccolo to a fan favourite.
Also sure 17 has been great and has gotten good treatment and all.
But what more did you want for 18?She got way better treatment than about half of the team which is full of males.
Better and older characters than her got even less.

It would have been nice to see 18 use some new techniques, or maybe even the kienzan again. Also saying she got better treatment than almost half of the team is questionable. The only ones who were treated worse than her were Krillin, Tien and Piccolo in my opinion.

Tien, maybe. Krillin and Piccolo? I don't know about that. Her exit was treated better than theirs, but the rest is debatable. She was nearly the first one out before Krillin saved her, for a while it seemed like #17 was constantly looking out for her, and was then saved again by Piccolo. Everyone needed rescuing once or twice,but it feels like she needed it a little more than the others. Her greatest accomplishment was her fight with Ribrianne, but looking back, aside from her colorful presence, I have a hard time considering Ribrianne a formidable opponent.
Not to mention my biggest pet peeve, her occasional moodiness that cropped up from time to time. Like in Vegeta's case, it was as if the writers couldn't settle on a temper.

[GohanHiddenPowers]

really? i consider 17 to be the worst of super. a ssj1 level tier gets to ss blue level in 10 years. pathetic

He is clearly one of the producers favourite, not necessarily one of the top 5 characters (Goku, Vegeta/Gohan, Gohan/Vegeta, Freeza, some other character). To me, he is just cool, nothing too speacial, but he is not someone who deserve better treatment than Piccolo, Gohan, etc. Yeah, this DBS finale is very anti-climatic. Just Goku and Vegeta's show against kid boo, again...

[TheDipDap1234]

Tien, maybe. Krillin and Piccolo? I don't know about that. Her exit was treated better than theirs, but the rest is debatable. She was nearly the first one out before Krillin saved her, for a while it seemed like #17 was constantly looking out for her, and was then saved again by Piccolo. Everyone needed rescuing once or twice,but it feels like she needed it a little more than the others. Her greatest accomplishment was her fight with Ribrianne, but looking back, aside from her colorful presence, I have a hard time considering Ribrianne a formidable opponent.
Not to mention my biggest pet peeve, her occasional moodiness that cropped up from time to time. Like in Vegeta's case, it was as if the writers couldn't settle on a temper.

Krillin eliminated Majora, saved 18 and team-ed up with her and Roshi, but that's all he did. His new attack was used on a blind fox, and he got bashed by his family members for getting eliminated. He couldn't even last more than 5 minutes on the arena. Piccolo's most memorable victory was against the namekians of Universe 6, and he had to share that victory with Gohan. All the other characters he eliminated were forgettable fodders, and his elimination was even worse than Krillin's since besides Gohan no one seemed to care about Piccolo getting eliminated. Even Gohan only seemed to care for like, 3 seconds. Compare that to 18's loss, where the remaining Universe 7 members wanted to avange her. Eventhough, Ribrianne was not a formidable opponent, she was still one of the most memorable charaters in this arc and someone that was constantly promoted both in and out universe, which is why 18's victory over her was so memorable. You're right about her constantly needing to be saved. It really annoyed me, and some of them felt really unnecessary (like Aniraza trying to eat 18. Take that out of the episode and nothing would have changed). There was also the injured ankle, and while it gave us some good 17 and 18 bonding moments, it felt overall really unnecessary and dumb. No wonder it was completely forgotten after the Ribrianne episode.
The only time 18 acted unlikeable to me was when she bashed Krillin for letting his guard down. That whole episode was pretty poorly written though. I also didn't like how she left Gohan's group to fight on her own for no reason. It didn't make any sense, since in the recruitment arc she talked a lot about how important it is to team-up with others to take down opponents.

This is getting off-topic. This thread is about 17 being awesome in this arc, which is true. He was definitely one of the best characters. Way better than he was in GT.

[gohan_black]

really? i consider 17 to be the worst of super. a ssj1 level tier gets to ss blue level in 10 years. pathetic

Are you really that influenced by power levels that 17 is the worst thing about Super to you? Also you say 10 years like that isn’t a ridiculously long amount of time.

it isnt when you spend them without any special training doing nothing but fighting poachers. do you really compare it to goku who trained in hard gravity for 7 years in conditions way harder then 17 ever did. and yet goku was still very far from god level. now you tell me android 17 can jump to god ki level when he did nothing but fighting poachers? come on. dont make me laugh

[JazzMazz]

really? i consider 17 to be the worst of super. a ssj1 level tier gets to ss blue level in 10 years. pathetic

Are you really that influenced by power levels that 17 is the worst thing about Super to you? Also you say 10 years like that isn’t a ridiculously long amount of time.

it isnt when you spend them without any special training doing nothing but fighting poachers. do you really compare it to goku who trained in hard gravity for 7 years in conditions way harder then 17 ever did. and yet goku was still very far from god level. now you tell me android 17 can jump to god ki level when he did nothing but fighting poachers? come on. dont make me laugh

I know a lot of people make fun of 17 getting so strong, but something that both mediums do, is not mention how 17 got stronger. Nowhere do they say "he got stronger from fighting poachers", thats just a meme people came up with that your translating as fact for some reason. How 17 trained is left ambiguous, much in the same way Freeza's training in the RoF movie was left ambiguous. The reason behind this is that by being rather vague with this sort of thing, they can get away with how strong they make characters.

In other words, 17 trained for 10 years and got good. I don't see how this is problem.

[Michsi]

Tien, maybe. Krillin and Piccolo? I don't know about that. Her exit was treated better than theirs, but the rest is debatable. She was nearly the first one out before Krillin saved her, for a while it seemed like #17 was constantly looking out for her, and was then saved again by Piccolo. Everyone needed rescuing once or twice,but it feels like she needed it a little more than the others. Her greatest accomplishment was her fight with Ribrianne, but looking back, aside from her colorful presence, I have a hard time considering Ribrianne a formidable opponent.
Not to mention my biggest pet peeve, her occasional moodiness that cropped up from time to time. Like in Vegeta's case, it was as if the writers couldn't settle on a temper.

Krillin eliminated Majora, saved 18 and team-ed up with her and Roshi, but that's all he did. His new attack was used on a blind fox, and he got bashed by his family members for getting eliminated. He couldn't even last more than 5 minutes on the arena. Piccolo's most memorable victory was against the namekians of Universe 6, and he had to share that victory with Gohan. All the other characters he eliminated were forgettable fodders, and his elimination was even worse than Krillin's since besides Gohan no one seemed to care about Piccolo getting eliminated. Even Gohan only seemed to care for like, 3 seconds. Compare that to 18's loss, where the remaining Universe 7 members wanted to avange her. Eventhough, Ribrianne was not a formidable opponent, she was still one of the most memorable charaters in this arc and someone that was constantly promoted both in and out universe, which is why 18's victory over her was so memorable. You're right about her constantly needing to be saved. It really annoyed me, and some of them felt really unnecessary (like Aniraza trying to eat 18. Take that out of the episode and nothing would have changed). There was also the injured ankle, and while it gave us some good 17 and 18 bonding moments, it felt overall really unnecessary and dumb. No wonder it was completely forgotten after the Ribrianne episode.
The only time 18 acted unlikeable to me was when she bashed Krillin for letting his guard down. That whole episode was pretty poorly written though. I also didn't like how she left Gohan's group to fight on her own for no reason. It didn't make any sense, since in the recruitment arc she talked a lot about how important it is to team-up with others to take down opponents.

There was also that scene where she told off #17 because he saved her from Katopesla. She had never seemed the overly prideful sort that cared about being saved ,especially given how often it happened here, so why was she suddenly acting so bratty?
Going point for point won't change anything. I already said Krillin and Piccolo's elimination was worse, but as far overall treatment goes? I wouldn't say that. Even Ribrianne wasn't her win alone since she very clearly wouldn't have made it had it not been for #17. Heck, even her sacrifice was to keep #17 in the ring, so you could say that one major role she had here was to make #17 look cool. Don't get me wrong, she did more in this arc than she did since her fight against Vegeta, but had she been a major character in the past her treatment here wouldn't have been to most people's liking.
Same as in Roshi's case, there were little to no expectations, so it wasn't hard to meet and surpass them.

Anyway it's not the first time she got the shorter end on the stick as opposed to #17 as far as power goes. I don't mind it since she is has always been depicted as someone that doesn't care about fighting that much.

As for the topic, hells yeah he got an awesome treatment in this arc. Tien and Piccolo should take note and disappear for a couple of years too, maybe that'll earn them a grand re-entrance too.

[CJStriker_CBR]

Tien, maybe. Krillin and Piccolo? I don't know about that. Her exit was treated better than theirs, but the rest is debatable. She was nearly the first one out before Krillin saved her, for a while it seemed like #17 was constantly looking out for her, and was then saved again by Piccolo. Everyone needed rescuing once or twice,but it feels like she needed it a little more than the others. Her greatest accomplishment was her fight with Ribrianne, but looking back, aside from her colorful presence, I have a hard time considering Ribrianne a formidable opponent.
Not to mention my biggest pet peeve, her occasional moodiness that cropped up from time to time. Like in Vegeta's case, it was as if the writers couldn't settle on a temper.

Krillin eliminated Majora, saved 18 and team-ed up with her and Roshi, but that's all he did. His new attack was used on a blind fox, and he got bashed by his family members for getting eliminated. He couldn't even last more than 5 minutes on the arena. Piccolo's most memorable victory was against the namekians of Universe 6, and he had to share that victory with Gohan. All the other characters he eliminated were forgettable fodders, and his elimination was even worse than Krillin's since besides Gohan no one seemed to care about Piccolo getting eliminated. Even Gohan only seemed to care for like, 3 seconds. Compare that to 18's loss, where the remaining Universe 7 members wanted to avange her. Eventhough, Ribrianne was not a formidable opponent, she was still one of the most memorable charaters in this arc and someone that was constantly promoted both in and out universe, which is why 18's victory over her was so memorable. You're right about her constantly needing to be saved. It really annoyed me, and some of them felt really unnecessary (like Aniraza trying to eat 18. Take that out of the episode and nothing would have changed). There was also the injured ankle, and while it gave us some good 17 and 18 bonding moments, it felt overall really unnecessary and dumb. No wonder it was completely forgotten after the Ribrianne episode.
The only time 18 acted unlikeable to me was when she bashed Krillin for letting his guard down. That whole episode was pretty poorly written though. I also didn't like how she left Gohan's group to fight on her own for no reason. It didn't make any sense, since in the recruitment arc she talked a lot about how important it is to team-up with others to take down opponents.

This is getting off-topic. This thread is about 17 being awesome in this arc, which is true. He was definitely one of the best characters. Way better than he was in GT.

Really Ribrianne was a Formidable Opponent by the end of 117.

Remember, Ribrianne got a huge infusion of power from her teammates making her giant and likely more powerful then before. Not only that 18 was trapped in Brianne's Heart trap and seem to not able to get out of it until she remembered about her Family. 18 using her own power of love got a Mega Surge of power that allowed her to make the fight even, but it too also 17's help to help tip the tide of the battle for 18 to get an opening.

In the end 18 took getting to a New level of realization of Power and her teaming with 17 to be able to take down Ribrianne's Giant form, a feet that it seemed by 18's reaction while being trapped right at that start of Ribrianne's giant form looked to be not possible by how 18 was looking at the situation. So really this equaled to both Ladies being Formidable Opponent by the end of their battle with each other.

[Michsi]

*snip

I know you like her, but you can't change other's impression regarding this. If I'm to look back at her treatment, it really isn't much to write home about as far as fighting goes. How promotion for this arc has been handled is an issue we've mentioned before, about how it created false hype surrounding certain characters. #17 has been promoted correctly in that regard. Caulifla and Kale too in a way. But Ribrianne and Fireballs? They got upstaged by her three remaining team-mates, who in the end were not only the ones fighting their universe's final fight, but also made to look stronger than the girls.

Being a fun character and being a formidable opponent aren't the same.

[CJStriker_CBR]

*snip

I know you like her, but you can't change other's impression regarding this. If I'm to look back at her treatment, it really isn't much to write home about as far as fighting goes. How promotion for this arc has been handled is an issue we've mentioned before, about how it created false hype surrounding certain characters. #17 has been promoted correctly in that regard. Caulifla and Kale too in a way. But Ribrianne and Fireballs? They got upstaged by her three remaining team-mates, who in the end were not only the ones fighting their universe's final fight, but also made to look stronger than the girls.

Being a fun character and being a formidable opponent aren't the same.

I think it is just different in how we view the Ideals of Formidable;

I don't want to be long on this since this is not what the thread is about but I would never take away what Rabanra, Zarbuto and Zirloin, honestly they made for one of the Best parts of the ToP and save Super for me IMO. But the context still was that they NEEDED the Fireballs powers to be able to be Formidable warriors in 118. IMO and by the view of that fight they did not Upstage the Fireballs cause that was not the theme of their characters or their universe's ideals, but they Honored the Girls by taking on their powers cause the Girls are in their view the great heroes of their Universe, it was more of an honoring of them and their ideals then anything else, but still their ideals being each member supports the other, in this case the giving of the power-sets. In a way it was poetic cause it showed their team is not about the one, but about each other and give each their all for each other.

Honestly I don't expect to change everyone's views, but I don't see a problem in debating these subjects on U2 either. The least I can do is my best to have a debate to at least give the alternate view on Why Ribrianne and U2 where both Good Characters and Formidable Characters to the best I can. This view is a valued one even in the wake of the OP that Jiren and UI shows, IMO no level of power should go un-celebrate or NO character left without celebrating just cause they are not on those levels, those characters still showed great character development, moments and power that I want to try to make sure is know.

I don't see harm in that, I expect the same from any fan to do the same.

[Hit-Man]

*snip

I know you like her, but you can't change other's impression regarding this. If I'm to look back at her treatment, it really isn't much to write home about as far as fighting goes. How promotion for this arc has been handled is an issue we've mentioned before, about how it created false hype surrounding certain characters. #17 has been promoted correctly in that regard. Caulifla and Kale too in a way. But Ribrianne and Fireballs? They got upstaged by her three remaining team-mates, who in the end were not only the ones fighting their universe's final fight, but also made to look stronger than the girls.

Being a fun character and being a formidable opponent aren't the same.

I think it is just different in how we view the Ideals of Formidable;

I don't want to be long on this since this is not what the thread is about but I would never take away what Rabanra, Zarbuto and Zirloin, honestly they made for one of the Best parts of the ToP and save Super for me IMO. But the context still was that they NEEDED the Fireballs powers to be able to be Formidable warriors in 118. IMO and by the view of that fight they did not Upstage the Fireballs cause that was not the theme of their characters or their universe's ideals, but they Honored the Girls by taking on their powers cause the Girls are in their view the great heroes of their Universe, it was more of an honoring of them and their ideals then anything else, but still their ideals being each member supports the other, in this case the giving of the power-sets. In a way it was poetic cause it showed their team is not about the one, but about each other and give each their all for each other.

Honestly I don't expect to change everyone's views, but I don't see a problem in debating these subjects on U2 either. The least I can do is my best to have a debate to at least give the alternate view on Why Ribrianne and U2 where both Good Characters and Formidable Characters to the best I can. This view is a valued one even in the wake of the OP that Jiren and UI shows, IMO no level of power should go un-celebrate or NO character left without celebrating just cause they are not on those levels, those characters still showed great character development, moments and power that I want to try to make sure is know.

I don't see harm in that, I expect the same from any fan to do the same.

You just couldn't wait till somebody went and brought up Ribrianne. Everytime I see you post you mention some damn Ribrianne.

[Michsi]

Oh, I'm not saying you shouldn't debate on the subject, but just to keep in mind that when it comes to impressions, little can be done to change them. Our bias towards certain characters or aspects of the show influences how we view things, but others who don't have that bias look at those very same things differently. One can go back a look at the whole arc with fresh eyes and find a new appreciation for certain characters, but for now, Ribrianne was simply a flashy and funny character (though the humor was a hit and miss with her too), but not the powerhouse she was promoted as.

[CJStriker_CBR]

Oh, I'm not saying you shouldn't debate on the subject, but just to keep in mind that when it comes to impressions, little can be done to change them. Our bias towards certain characters or aspects of the show influences how we view things, but others who don't have that bias look at those very same things differently. One can go back a look at the whole arc with fresh eyes and find a new appreciation for certain characters, but for now, Ribrianne was simply a flashy and funny character (though the humor was a hit and miss with her too), but not the powerhouse she was promoted as.

Agree and Respect towards that way with how the world is. I understand their can be little I can do at many times, it is always fun talk the topics and indeed I find I do find fans at rare points do alter their views once and awhile. You never know what will happen in a discussion or what will be said back, makes doing it the most valuable part. But still it is fun having a conversation on topics I like to have them about.

[Michsi]

Oh, I'm not saying you shouldn't debate on the subject, but just to keep in mind that when it comes to impressions, little can be done to change them. Our bias towards certain characters or aspects of the show influences how we view things, but others who don't have that bias look at those very same things differently. One can go back a look at the whole arc with fresh eyes and find a new appreciation for certain characters, but for now, Ribrianne was simply a flashy and funny character (though the humor was a hit and miss with her too), but not the powerhouse she was promoted as.

Agree and Respect towards that way with how the world is. I understand their can be little I can do at many times, it is always fun talk the topics and indeed I find I do find fans at rare points do alter their views once and awhile. You never know what will happen in a discussion or what will be said back, makes doing it the most valuable part. But still it is fun having a conversation on topics I like to have them about.

Change of opinion definitely happens. Look at the Cell Saga and the Buu Saga. A couple of years ago the Cell saga was seen as the second greatest arc of DB and Buu as the worst. Now more and more say how Buu saga was actually really good and Cell saga kinda bad. But such a shift tends to happen at a very slow pace, so I'm curious how the TOP will be remembered as in a couple of years. Maybe Ribrianne and #17 will switch places

[CJStriker_CBR]

You just couldn't wait till somebody went and brought up Ribrianne. Everytime I see you post you mention some damn Ribrianne.

Um........I talk about who I want to talk about, that is how forums and fandoms work.