As we say our final goodbyes to the prince, what do you think will IGNITE prodigious Son Goku?

[Benedetto12]

I think Goku will realize what will happen to his universe when Vegeta loses, he was really confident that he could beat Jiren along Vegeta and 17, now with 17 dead, Vegeta getting knocked out and Frieza worn out just like him, he will start to get desesperate, this desesperation will trigger his transformation to the Omen-form, later when pushed to the limits of this form, he will fully awaken the UI

[ZenkaiBoosts]

It's probably just gonna be the sheer amount of power Jiren has that makes Goku transform into Mastered Ultra Instinct. Goku went Ultra Instinct Omen the first time because of the Genki Dama, and the second time because of Kefla.

I would love if Goku transformed because of rage or Vegeta giving a speech before he falls, but let's be honest will Toriyama and Toei give Goku any character development in Super?

Being angry is not character development.

As a character Goku has been developed as far as he can go, it basically stopped after the Freeza arc.

I do think they could do something interesting if they added some kind of genuinely interesting internal monologue or conflict in the next episode, but I'm not hoping for too much.

; )


After tonights episode you have to be happy now: )

That scene of Goku recalling everyone whos counting on him, and Goku refusing to let them down playing a part in leading to re-awakening Omen was amazing (and pretty iconic) That music playing was so nice too. Really drove home the emotional impact

There was that, some development from Goku that we had all been hoping for/waiting for: )

Btw, I loved how Vegeta said "I leave it all up to you now Kakarot"

That was such a subtle way for Super's version of Vegeta to finally admit that only Goku can win/that Goku still is essentially #1

Loved that too

Vegeta DID go out like the true warrior he is. Rest proud prince

And emotions did come to Goku. Goku did have some kind of breakthrough. Goku was revitalized.

The preview of mastered UI Goku looked amazing too

So happy. So hyped. Cant wait. Lets go Son Goku!

[JazzMazz]

Being angry is not character development.

As a character Goku has been developed as far as he can go, it basically stopped after the Freeza arc.

I do think they could do something interesting if they added some kind of genuinely interesting internal monologue or conflict in the next episode, but I'm not hoping for too much.

; )


After tonights episode you have to be happy now: )

That scene of Goku recalling everyone whos counting on him, and Goku refusing to let them down, leading to re-awakening Omen was amazing (and pretty iconic)

Theres some development from Goku that we had alp been waiting for: )

Btw, I loved how Vegeta said "I leave it all up to you now Kakarot"

That was such a subtle way for Super's version of Vegeta to finally admit that only Goku can win/that Goku stipl iss essentially #1

Loved that too

Vegeta DID go out like true warrior he is. Rest proud prince

And emotions did come to Goku. Goku did have a breakthrough. Goku was revitalized.

The preview of mastered UI Goku just looked amazing too

So happy. So hyped. Cant wait. Lets go Son Goku!

I'm okay with it.

I felt like it could have been slightly better directed and could have been a little more expansive, but I do like the idea behind it a great deal. I will say though, that I think it would have had a lot more wieght if Jirens whole trust issues thing was established a fair bit earlier so it actually felt like we were leading up to everyone depending on Goku.

TBH, the preview and the little we know about the staff for next episode have really got me hyped for next episode. These next couple of weeks will be pure pain.

[ZenkaiBoosts]

I do think they could do something interesting if they added some kind of genuinely interesting internal monologue or conflict in the next episode, but I'm not hoping for too much.

; )


After tonights episode you have to be happy now: )

That scene of Goku recalling everyone whos counting on him, and Goku refusing to let them down, leading to re-awakening Omen was amazing (and pretty iconic)

Theres some development from Goku that we had alp been waiting for: )

Btw, I loved how Vegeta said "I leave it all up to you now Kakarot"

That was such a subtle way for Super's version of Vegeta to finally admit that only Goku can win/that Goku stipl iss essentially #1

Loved that too

Vegeta DID go out like true warrior he is. Rest proud prince

And emotions did come to Goku. Goku did have a breakthrough. Goku was revitalized.

The preview of mastered UI Goku just looked amazing too

So happy. So hyped. Cant wait. Lets go Son Goku!

I'm okay with it.

I felt like it could have been slightly better directed and could have been a little more expansive, but I do like the idea behind it a great deal. I will say though, that I think it would have had a lot more wieght if Jirens whole trust issues thing was established a fair bit earlier so it actually felt like we were leading up to everyone depending on Goku.

TBH, the preview and the little we know about the staff for next episode have really got me hyped for next episode. These next couple of weeks will be pure pain.

Glad you liked it

The wait for episode 129 is going to be that much more painful lol. But that extra week should do great things for more polish and higher quality

[TheOtherDude]

; )


After tonights episode you have to be happy now: )

That scene of Goku recalling everyone whos counting on him, and Goku refusing to let them down, leading to re-awakening Omen was amazing (and pretty iconic)

Theres some development from Goku that we had alp been waiting for: )

Btw, I loved how Vegeta said "I leave it all up to you now Kakarot"

That was such a subtle way for Super's version of Vegeta to finally admit that only Goku can win/that Goku stipl iss essentially #1

Loved that too

Vegeta DID go out like true warrior he is. Rest proud prince

And emotions did come to Goku. Goku did have a breakthrough. Goku was revitalized.

The preview of mastered UI Goku just looked amazing too

So happy. So hyped. Cant wait. Lets go Son Goku!

I'm okay with it.

I felt like it could have been slightly better directed and could have been a little more expansive, but I do like the idea behind it a great deal. I will say though, that I think it would have had a lot more wieght if Jirens whole trust issues thing was established a fair bit earlier so it actually felt like we were leading up to everyone depending on Goku.

TBH, the preview and the little we know about the staff for next episode have really got me hyped for next episode. These next couple of weeks will be pure pain.

Glad you liked it

The wait for episode 129 is going to be that much more painful lol. But that extra week should do great things for more polish and higher quality

You are really something else. I’ve never seen someone be so excited about a fictional character losing. It’s actually kinda sad.

[Kaiosama]

I'm okay with it.

I felt like it could have been slightly better directed and could have been a little more expansive, but I do like the idea behind it a great deal. I will say though, that I think it would have had a lot more wieght if Jirens whole trust issues thing was established a fair bit earlier so it actually felt like we were leading up to everyone depending on Goku.

TBH, the preview and the little we know about the staff for next episode have really got me hyped for next episode. These next couple of weeks will be pure pain.

Glad you liked it

The wait for episode 129 is going to be that much more painful lol. But that extra week should do great things for more polish and higher quality

You are really something else. I’ve never seen someone be so excited about a fictional character losing. It’s actually kinda sad.

I don't know... Maybe he and many others are tired of seeing this farce of a "rivalry" that was supposed to have dissolved at the end of Z.

[ZenkaiBoosts]

Glad you liked it

The wait for episode 129 is going to be that much more painful lol. But that extra week should do great things for more polish and higher quality

You are really something else. I’ve never seen someone be so excited about a fictional character losing. It’s actually kinda sad.

I don't know... Maybe he and many others are tired of seeing this farce of a "rivalry" that was supposed to have dissolved at the end of Z.

Thank you for putting it so well my brother

[TheOtherDude]

You are really something else. I’ve never seen someone be so excited about a fictional character losing. It’s actually kinda sad.

I don't know... Maybe he and many others are tired of seeing this farce of a "rivalry" that was supposed to have dissolved at the end of Z.

Thank you for putting it so well my brother

Congratulations Zenkai. You found ONE person on this message board that’s “happy” one of the main charachters lost. You’ve been called out so many times on your silly comments that I really don’t need to say more.

As far as the rivalry goes, it’s still a thing so you can get over yourself. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with what they do and how it’s portrayed. They kept each other motivated. The only thing Goku had over Vegeta was SSBKK. Which is anime exclusive. In the manga they were always neck and neck with Goku having a slight edge. The number 2 in the anime is always close to the main protagonist. Zoro from One Piece, Kaiba from yugioh, Kai from Beyblade, Sasuke from Naruto etc.

These events in Super are clearly before the EOZ. Vegeta did not give up on the rivalry at the end. He simply postponed it while he does his thing. Nothing in the EOZ indicated that a Vegeta gave up training altogether. The only thing you could point out is about what he said while fighting Kid Buu. And even then it’s debatable about what he meant when he said what he said. The bottom line is, when Toei started the series back up he intended for the rivalry to still be there. It’s here to stay. If/when the series starts back up, Vegeta will ultimately catch up.

[VegettoEX]

Congratulations Zenkai. You found ONE person on this message board that’s “happy” one of the main charachters lost. You’ve been called out so many times on your silly comments that I really don’t need to say more.

Your antagonistic attitude and personal attacks in this thread are unacceptable, and a second strike has been issued against your account.

Account strikes add up to temporary/permanent bans, which revoke access to the entirety of the Kanzenshuu website. Review the community guidelines that you agreed to (twice) prior to registration, and reevaluate what it is you are looking to get out of your time here.

[ZenkaiBoosts]

Episode 129, and mastered UI Goku in action is almost here guys. Just 5 more days. Finally the wait is almost over! The hype is killing me. In episode 128, we got everything we were hoping for:

-As Vegeta got ringed out Vegeta said, "I leave it all up to you now Kakarot"

-Not only did Vegeta give Goku his energy, he handed off his promises to Goku, for Goku to complete them for him. That showed so much trust and belief in Goku. Was touching. Vegeta passed on everything to Goku, including his last remaining hope. Vegeta finally let go and came to admit that only Goku could win (that Goku is still essentially #1)

-Vegeta spurred on Goku's epiphany too "KAKAROT"

-Emotions did come to Goku. Goku did have a breakthrough

-Goku realised how everyone is now counting on him. Goku put all their hope onto his own shoulders himself and promised to win so that they can live. Goku is fighting for a greater purpose now and refuses to lose and let all his loved ones get erased

-Goku was revitalized.

Vegeta even smiled about Goku going OMEN. As if Vegeta was saying "YESS. GO GOKU. I KNEW you would do it. I KNEW you wouldn't let me down. Your final moment is coming Jiren"

I then wrote about how I think Goku could transform into mastered UI, and how I would love to see play it out. I'm now really excited to see how it's going to play out. Spoilers talked about a desperate event that causes Goku's legendary transformation. I'm so hyped to find out what that desperate event will be

I was watching the latest trailer of Zenoverse 2, and I noticed something very interesting

https://youtu.be/MvKFauucJW0

Go to the end. There's footage of Goku transforming into mastered UI...But notice how Goku is never in his OMEN form. Its Goku in his base, transforming into mastered UI. Base Goku almost looks knocked out, then explodes into his mastered UI transformation. Is this foreshadowing? Hmmm.

Now that we have seen previews for 129. I'm wondering if that attack from Jiren actually ends up knocking Goku completely out of Omen and back into his base form. That would be wild. Wow.

Imagine how it would feel for U7 and Goku, that Goku's 3rd Omen awakening (the most potent and strongest awakening of Omen for Goku) still came up short. It would be a crushing blow to their morale and Goku's morale. It would be like, whats next. 3rd awakened Omen Goku was doing good. How can this monster Jiren even be defeated. Nooooo Son Goku.

As Goku is knocked back into his base form, all that newfound hope would seem to be lost forever now.

Imagine if universe 7 actually started accepting defeat and started crying out for Goku? It would start to seem that not even Goku could over come the odds.

That could be what easily forces Goku into a desperate corner with no where else to go, forcing Goku into fully unleashing. As they say, an animal is most dangerous when it's cornered.

You dont want to corner the legdanry Son Goku.

That could be what triggers something deep inside Goku and forces Goku to rise again

This could be what fully IGNITES the legendary Son Goku into his most legendary form ever.


Here is what I wrote
""Goku is starting to lose it "no, this cant be. How can this be. It cant end like this. I cant let anyone down. Its not going to end like this...no..no...no...as each time Goku repeats this (refusing to let this become the fate of U7 and his loved ones) Goku starts exploding with energy and anger with each no as hes crying thinking about his loved ones being erased.""

: )

I would love it too, if Goku let out his animalistic roar before transforming too.

I'm so happy and excited to see what's going to happen. I hope I'm not far off the mark. That would simply be amazing. I knoe its going to be amazing either way.

I always knew Toriyama/Toei were going to hit It out of the ballpark. In the same way U7 put their trust onto Goku to win, I put my trust into Toriyama/Toei to deliver...and they are!! And I'm confident they will continue to. Thank you Toriyama/Toei.

Words can't describe how pumped and excited I am. Episode 129 is going to be sooo amazing. I'm so hyped.

I have a feeling that Goku's mastered UI transformation is going to be one of the most iconic epic transformations/scenes in Dragon Ball history...and That Goku vs Jiren (and witj hopefully Goku winning) will be one of the greatest battles in Dragon Ball history too.

Let's go Son Goku. If anyone can over come the odds, Its the ultimate prodigy Son Goku.

[supersaiyanZero]

I find myself very apathetic with this "new" transformation. Not only have we seen a multitude of transformations in such a short amount of time that has never been seen before in the history of Dragonball except in awful fan fictions, but I simply do not care about Goku vs Jiren. When Goku faced Frieza there was a healthy buildup to Frieza finally getting his comeuppance as well as the weight of desperation surrounding their circumstance. Same thing with Gohan vs Cell.

This time around Goku's motivation seemed very forced and contrived, and his opponent holds almost no narrative weight as an antagonist. But hey, it looks cool so...

[HeroR]

I find myself very apathetic with this "new" transformation. Not only have we seen a multitude of transformations in such a short amount of time that has never been seen before in the history of Dragonball except in awful fan fictions, but I simply do not care about Goku vs Jiren. When Goku faced Frieza there was a healthy buildup to Frieza finally getting his comeuppance as well as the weight of desperation surrounding their circumstance. Same thing with Gohan vs Cell.

This time around Goku's motivation seemed very forced and contrived, and his opponent holds almost no narrative weight as an antagonist. But hey, it looks cool so...

Well, Jiren isn’t a villain like Freeza and Cell. He’s pretty much the dragon. Not sure how Goku’s motivation is contrived. It’s either win or be erased.

[ZenkaiBoosts]

I find myself very apathetic with this "new" transformation. Not only have we seen a multitude of transformations in such a short amount of time that has never been seen before in the history of Dragonball except in awful fan fictions, but I simply do not care about Goku vs Jiren. When Goku faced Frieza there was a healthy buildup to Frieza finally getting his comeuppance as well as the weight of desperation surrounding their circumstance. Same thing with Gohan vs Cell.

This time around Goku's motivation seemed very forced and contrived, and his opponent holds almost no narrative weight as an antagonist. But hey, it looks cool so...

Well yeah, because Frieza and Cell were pure evil

You cant really build up to Jiren getting some kind of sweet justice dealt to him, because Jiren is not evil. Jiren is a pride trooper

However Jiren is cocky and arrogant in his overwhelming power.

So I can imagine its going to be extremely satisfying watching Goku knock Jiren off his pedestal a bit.

I mean if you watch the video reaction thread I made, people were losing their minds when Omen Goku hurt Jiren for the first time and were happy to see Goku finally hurt Jiren

So there is something to be said about Jiren being a great heel to Goku.

Think about how Jiren constantly mocks Goku's beliefs in trust, hope, and fighting for others or a greater purpose. While Jiren only believes in pure strength and nothing but strength. This is an element of the writing that is fantastic that doesnt get the credit it deserves.

Goku and Jiren are fighting for opposing ideologies, that violently clash head on at every turn.

Goku's emotional epiphany in realizing theres a greater purpose to fight for now, for those counting on him, being juxtaposed with Jiren's ideologies, was utterly fanastic.

Even though it isn't so black and white and Jiren is a good guy, Toriyama/Toei have done a great job of making Jiren a true antagonist to Goku who you want Goku to "teach a lesson to"

People want to see Goku humble Jiren a bit. People want to see Goku knock Jiren off his pedastal.

It doesnt always have to be a case of black and white, evil villain gets what's coming to him etc.

With people complaining about Super being repetitive or "predictable," I'm surprised more don't appreciate this new and different unique approach to Goku vs a major antagonist.

Its not a clear cut case of good vs evil

Its simply 2 good guys who are the 2 strongest who both have widely opposing clashing ideologies where one is also super cocky while the other is super humble

Maybe Goku's dirve to win and refusal to let U7 down (who put all their trust and hope in Goku) can touch Jiren so much so that Jiren changes his outlook on only strength being the be-all-end-all

Goku beating Jiren and showing Jiren the power of trust and hope thus getting Jiren to open up and start learning to have trust in his friends would be awesome

Imagine, after Jiren losses to Goku, Jiren finally realizes that theres now something very real and meaningful to hope and trust (since that's what drove Goku to beat Jiren) That would be awesome

[ZenkaiBoosts]

I find myself very apathetic with this "new" transformation. Not only have we seen a multitude of transformations in such a short amount of time that has never been seen before in the history of Dragonball except in awful fan fictions, but I simply do not care about Goku vs Jiren. When Goku faced Frieza there was a healthy buildup to Frieza finally getting his comeuppance as well as the weight of desperation surrounding their circumstance. Same thing with Gohan vs Cell.

This time around Goku's motivation seemed very forced and contrived, and his opponent holds almost no narrative weight as an antagonist. But hey, it looks cool so...

Well, Jiren isn’t a villain like Freeza and Cell. He’s pretty much the dragon. Not sure how Goku’s motivation is contrived. It’s either win or be erased.

Exactly. Goku has the greatest motivation possible. If he losses not only does he get erased, his loved ones and everything he knows gets erased.

You can't beat motivation like that

When Goku finally came to this realization, the realization that everyone is counting on him and that he can't let them down or else everything he loves gets erased, it was a beautiful touching iconic scene of Goku recalling every member of U7 while that beautiful soft piano was playing. It was very touching and hit with so much emotional weight

Goku finally had that moment where he realized there's a greater purpose to fight for and it sparked Son Goku


Others have brought up good critical points (even though I can or may disagree, or agree, I have nothing against that) but honestly, I feel like at this point, detractors are now just throwing darts at a wall hoping one sticks

[supersaiyanZero]

I find myself very apathetic with this "new" transformation. Not only have we seen a multitude of transformations in such a short amount of time that has never been seen before in the history of Dragonball except in awful fan fictions, but I simply do not care about Goku vs Jiren. When Goku faced Frieza there was a healthy buildup to Frieza finally getting his comeuppance as well as the weight of desperation surrounding their circumstance. Same thing with Gohan vs Cell.

This time around Goku's motivation seemed very forced and contrived, and his opponent holds almost no narrative weight as an antagonist. But hey, it looks cool so...

snip

It has nothing to do with Jiren being evil or not. His interactions with the crew do nothing to set up any sort of meaningful final confrontation. Not only is he written inconsistently (from Zen master in one episode to arrogant, "Only the strong survive" Thanos-ish" in the next), he has no major convictions or opposing ideology as you claim. He's just simply there. His really weak, generic backstory adds nothing to his character or motivations for being in the ring and it doesn't help him in the end. He doesn't need to be some evil big bad as you claim we need him to be. Mureum from HxH for instance was the "final boss" of his respective arc and he was far from being "black and white evil", even altruistic at times. However the way he was set up against the protagonists and other supporting characters made for a very impressive build up and I wouldn't be surprised if people were rooting for him in the end. A good antagonist is someone you can see yourself rooting for or someone you can absolutely hate based on their actions. Jiren has neither. He's just, well, gray.

Everything else you speak of like him being on a pedestal, him needing to be knocked off of it, him believing in nothing but "strength" - trust me we all get that. It's just done so horribly bland and generic, on top of poor execution, that we just don't care. In the history of Shounen there are plenty of characters, antagonists especially, who walked down the trope of "I believe in nothing but my own strength" or absolute arrogance, and it's easy to point out examples of much, much better execution. Super literally has the bare minimum for a character in Jiren.

Exactly. Goku has the greatest motivation possible. If he losses not only does he get erased, his loved ones and everything he knows gets erased.

You can't beat motivation like that

There is literally ZERO build up to this. The entire time Goku is some kind of hap hazard idiot just having the time of his life. He easily throws an entire multiverse into a fight for their lives without so much a second though and enjoys himself throughout the entire arc. There is NO ideology present here that suggests he is even capable of fighting for anyone but himself. This last minute "epiphany" is a writing joke, all of a sudden we are to believe because of a 2 minute montage of him remembering his comrades, all of a sudden he gives a fuck? It's pulled out of thin air, its forced, its contrived, its predictable, and it's boring. It's just bad. There were no consequences of anybody's actions realized, there was no emotional attachment to any of it. If you want to see opposing ideologies, Goku vs Frieza is a good example, as well as Goku vs Piccolo when Gohan was fighting Cell.

You also need to stop cherry picking sources (and I use that word loosely because you're just posting Youtube links) that "agree" with your point of view. For every youtube video praising Super I can pull up ones doing just the opposite. It doesn't prove anything, and its laughable.

[TheSaiyanGod]

I find myself very apathetic with this "new" transformation. Not only have we seen a multitude of transformations in such a short amount of time that has never been seen before in the history of Dragonball except in awful fan fictions, but I simply do not care about Goku vs Jiren. When Goku faced Frieza there was a healthy buildup to Frieza finally getting his comeuppance as well as the weight of desperation surrounding their circumstance. Same thing with Gohan vs Cell.

This time around Goku's motivation seemed very forced and contrived, and his opponent holds almost no narrative weight as an antagonist. But hey, it looks cool so...

Well, Jiren isn’t a villain like Freeza and Cell. He’s pretty much the dragon. Not sure how Goku’s motivation is contrived. It’s either win or be erased.

Exactly. Goku has the greatest motivation possible. If he losses not only does he get erased, his loved ones and everything he knows gets erased.

You can't beat motivation like that

When Goku finally came to this realization, the realization that everyone is counting on him and that he can't let them down or else everything he loves gets erased, it was a beautiful touching iconic scene of Goku recalling every member of U7 while that beautiful soft piano was playing. It was very touching and hit with so much emotional weight

Goku finally had that moment where he realized there's a greater purpose to fight for and it sparked Son Goku


Others have brought up good critical points (even though I can or may disagree, or agree, I have nothing against that) but honestly, I feel like at this point, detractors are now just throwing darts at a wall hoping one sticks

This is not an exclusive motivation of Goku, all U7 participants are struggling to protect important people

But Goku himself, from the beginning of this saga, never seems to have felt the responsibility. He has always taken this tournament as an opportunity to face powerful enemies and has never shown to be concerned about his possible destruction.

We had characters in the tournament with motivations much more worked than that of Goku in this tournament, but he is the protagonist, so obviously he will stay until the end.

[TBMx]

Goku isn't prodigious. He's just a Gary Stu. Learning and mastering Ultra Instinct in 20 minutes isn't something that can be taken seriously. Some people like to bring up Goku learning Kamehameha instantly, but forget that was a gag. It was played as a joke.

There won't be any second series because there's no where left for Goku to go as a character even though there may be more opponents for him to fight - unless they're willing to put him in the role of mentor to a new protagonist.

There won't be anything specific that will ignite him to mastered UI. He will fight Jiren, improve rapidly as he does, and transform at the end.

There's also no way for Vegeta to catch up to UI without it coming off awkward and cheap. Which cheapens the transformation itself. They won't give him the required screentime and focus required, as unlike all of his previous forms, it isn't something that can be unlocked through training or simple powering up. Vegeta would have to face an opponent that the much stronger Goku does not hog, and something more extreme than a final explosion wrapped in hakai energy. Again, without Goku teleporting there and hogging the fight or jumping in before Vegeta gets anywhere near that dangerous point.

UI Vegeta is not going to happen. What'll happen is they'll add some sparks to his Super Blue Evolution form, make his aura bigger and say he's caught up somewhat, but of course still nowhere close to Goku. They will lazily modify what he already has, not give him what Goku has.

[Lord Beerus]

Goku isn't prodigious. He's just a Gary Stu. Learning and mastering Ultra Instinct in 20 minutes isn't something that can be taken seriously. Some people like to bring up Goku learning Kamehameha instantly, but forget that was a gag. It was played as a joke.

Goku learning the Kamehameha instantly wasn't played for laughs even back then. It was treated a big deal considering how long it took Roshi to learn and master the technique. Are we also going to ignore the fact that Goku picked Solar Flare technique after having it just used twice on him? And are we going to call Vegeta a "Gary Stu" for being able to learn the ability of sensing Ki despite not being taught it and only witnessing the ability once?

[TBMx]

Goku isn't prodigious. He's just a Gary Stu. Learning and mastering Ultra Instinct in 20 minutes isn't something that can be taken seriously. Some people like to bring up Goku learning Kamehameha instantly, but forget that was a gag. It was played as a joke.

Goku learning the Kamehameha instantly wasn't played for laughs even back then. It was treated a big deal considering how long it took Roshi to learn and master the technique. Are we also going to ignore the fact that Goku picked Solar Flare technique after having it just used twice on him? And are we going to call Vegeta a "Gary Stu" for being able to learn the ability of sensing Ki despite not being taught it and only witnessing the ability once?

Original Dragonball was a gag manga. Whereas were supposed to take the ToP finals seriously.

Vegeta will be a Gary Stu when he can learn and master Ultra Instinct in twenty minutes.

[HeroR]

Goku isn't prodigious. He's just a Gary Stu. Learning and mastering Ultra Instinct in 20 minutes isn't something that can be taken seriously. Some people like to bring up Goku learning Kamehameha instantly, but forget that was a gag. It was played as a joke.

Goku learning the Kamehameha instantly wasn't played for laughs even back then. It was treated a big deal considering how long it took Roshi to learn and master the technique. Are we also going to ignore the fact that Goku picked Solar Flare technique after having it just used twice on him? And are we going to call Vegeta a "Gary Stu" for being able to learn the ability of sensing Ki despite not being taught it and only witnessing the ability once?

That and Vegeta in general checks a lot of Mary Sue boxes:

Prince of a warrior race and one of the last of his kind: Check

Was called the strongest Saiyan who surpassed his dad even as a child and no Saiyan was even closed to him, including Goku after he was trained by a god: Check

Learned to sense ki just by knowing it exist when it took the rest of the cast training with god to learn it: Check

Learned to suppressed his energy just by obsessing when it took everyone else training with god: Check

Bodied almost everyone on Namek thanks to the Saiyans ability to grow stronger from near death: Check

Reached Legendary Super Saiyan despite it being stating previously that you needed a pure heart to get it: Check

Got god ki just by training hard and skipped an entire form when Goku had to go through a ritual and made a big deal about it being a power he couldn't reach on his own: Check

Did better against Jiren then Blue Kaioken x20 and UI Omen just by observing: Check

Got a new transforming because he 'willed it to happened': Check

Took out a God of Destruction by getting a 'pride boost' and he using a self-destruct technique that doesn't kill him anyone and still have the stamina to keep on fighting: Check