Jiren -such a huge disappointment

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Kenneth La Torre
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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:03 pm

Aman wrote:
Kenneth La Torre wrote:
Aman wrote: Quiet powerhouses can be interesting, Jiren is not one of them.

It might have worked with a cooler design, but it just hasn't clicked with him. He's just there, and not really someone I want to see again going forward.

Goku fans should be pleased that this wasn't the battle where he achieved his ultimate power tbh.
I’m pretty certain this is the battle where he achieved his ultimate power. Or maybe I’ve just been dreaming about MUI goku all this time.
I mean't as in perfecting it, this is his ultimate form, but it's the not the peak of it.

I can't see Goku going any higher than this as it is the ultimate form, but I can still see him perfecting it and hitting a new peak power with it. That will probably come with him being able to use at will and fully understanding the power.
Mastered is already perfecting it (the MUI scans that came before did reference the form as “perfected”) He can still increase his battle power, if that’s what you mean. It’s like perfected/Mastered super Saiyan, while goku did master the form, it was still not enough for cell, but he can’t still increase in battle power.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Miracles » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:36 pm

PsionicWarrior wrote:
Miracles wrote: Necessary for explaining what made Jiren today. :P
All the more power to you for being satisfied with this, but given the one year hype about his backstory I was expecting and truly think he needed more. To follow on his psychology, see him live and laugh, then lose all. Just telling us the cliché scenario within such short timeframe doesn't work to make an antagonist interesting and memorable enough to me. I thought Zamasu would have raised a bit some standards, looks like I was wrong.
Dragonball villains never really been hyped up on backstory.
Their character was presented in the present as arrogant powerhouses who wiped walls with bodies.
Aman wrote:
Miracles wrote:
PsionicWarrior wrote:
Well, no. I'm complaining because unlike for instance Freeza Jiren clearly needed a solid background to give him proper development and make him interesting. Same would go for Toppo actually, it was a great that Toppo had this inner struggle between justice and destruction, but sadly it wasn't built in any way making little impact on the narrative when it happened.
Jiren's background was already a business is booming pitch. When he came in stated to be stronger than his god of destruction Belmound.
Jiren being a quiet powerhouse was very interesting. People are mad cause he has a tragic past which is the reason for his strength. They gave us a solid background for who Jiren is today.

Quiet powerhouses can be interesting, Jiren is not one of them.

It might have worked with a cooler design, but it just hasn't clicked with him. He's just there, and not really someone I want to see again going forward.

Goku fans should be pleased that this wasn't the battle where he achieved his ultimate power tbh.
Jiren is a very interesting "quiet powerhouse." Whenever he spoke it mattered. Reproving Vegeta about his exaggerated view of himself was cool.
Rebuking Hit about being hypocritical about having pride as an assassin was fist pump worthy! Jiren says things when they matter!

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by PsionicWarrior » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:46 pm

Miracles wrote: Dragonball villains never really been hyped up on backstory.
They didn't need to. Freeza you understand pretty fast: 'give me the DB and I won't kill them, Oops I lied'. Tyran ruling over the galaxy and all are on same page. Cell same, created to kill. Majin Buu was more interesting but the basis was also incarnation of evil we have no other choice than to kill. Things are different with Jiren, as in the whole context of top.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by fadeddreams5 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:59 pm

I think Jiren low key tries to compensate for his baldness with the whole "I need more power" schtick. There probably was no villain in his past that slaughtered his family. He's just mad he could never grow hair and his friends could, so he killed them all. He even wore a beanie that looked like a bowl cut as a kid.
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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Miracles » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:41 pm

PsionicWarrior wrote:They didn't need to. Freeza you understand pretty fast: 'give me the DB and I won't kill them, Oops I lied'. Tyran ruling over the galaxy and all are on same page. Cell same, created to kill. Majin Buu was more interesting but the basis was also incarnation of evil we have no other choice than to kill. Things are different with Jiren, as in the whole context of top.
Things aren't different with Jiren tho. He is a pride trooper, a group for justice, has expressed his sense of justice towards other characters and the only mystery is his wish.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by PsionicWarrior » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:42 am

Things are different with Jiren because Jiren is not a villain.
Look, I know and understand you're fine with how things are with Jiren and I respect that, I don't really see the point trying to convince me.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by GamerSkull » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:33 pm

fadeddreams5 wrote:I think Jiren low key tries to compensate for his baldness with the whole "I need more power" schtick. There probably was no villain in his past that slaughtered his family. He's just mad he could never grow hair and his friends could, so he killed them all. He even wore a beanie that looked like a bowl cut as a kid.
So would his wish from the Super Dragon Balls be to grow hair?
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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by fadeddreams5 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:00 am

GamerSkull wrote:
fadeddreams5 wrote:I think Jiren low key tries to compensate for his baldness with the whole "I need more power" schtick. There probably was no villain in his past that slaughtered his family. He's just mad he could never grow hair and his friends could, so he killed them all. He even wore a beanie that looked like a bowl cut as a kid.
So would his wish from the Super Dragon Balls be to grow hair?
He's not that selfish. He'll wish for everyone to be bald.
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Hawk9211 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:56 am

fadeddreams5 wrote:
GamerSkull wrote:
fadeddreams5 wrote:I think Jiren low key tries to compensate for his baldness with the whole "I need more power" schtick. There probably was no villain in his past that slaughtered his family. He's just mad he could never grow hair and his friends could, so he killed them all. He even wore a beanie that looked like a bowl cut as a kid.
So would his wish from the Super Dragon Balls be to grow hair?
He's not that selfish. He'll wish for everyone to be bald.
Makes sense :think: .
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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by PsionicWarrior » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:20 am

Hawk9211 wrote:
fadeddreams5 wrote:
GamerSkull wrote:
So would his wish from the Super Dragon Balls be to grow hair?
He's not that selfish. He'll wish for everyone to be bald.
Makes sense :think: .
lol :D

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Kataphrut » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:34 am

Not gonna lie, really like what they did with Jiren in the latest episode.

When he attacked the stands, that was actually a well-done character moment of highlighting just how broken he truly is. In fact, it might be the best thing they've done with him.

They've only just started running with this characterisation of him as the dude who abandons everything in pursuit of strength, and most of the time that only ever amounted to being a stoic jerk. Now we see him on the back-foot and starting to questions everything, getting more desperate. He couldn't accept Goku beating him because it would basically invalidate everything he'd done, and everything he'd become up to that point. Him attacking the stands was this desperate lashing out, and when Goku blocked it, and THEN turned the fight around on him and basically overwhelmed him in anger for attacking his friends, that was it. It pretty much destroyed his worldview to the point he was ready to accept defeat. I almost wish it had ended there, since he has basically nothing left to push him on for the last leg of the fight except the vague hope of winning the Super Dragon Balls, which he no longer seems to even care about.

In one of the many "OMG Jiren is a bad character threads" we've had on this board, I remember saying it feels like he's either the worst-written Dragon Ball character ever or the best-written. This was right before the backstory episode incidentally. Now we're coming up on the last episode and I still don't know which he is. This is what happens when you have such inconsistent writing I guess, characters can literally swing from shallow trash to surprisingly complex in the space of an episode.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by DragonBallFoodie » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:45 am

He and Toppo were supposed to be the same character, or so I heard. Maybe that would have been better?
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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by TheZFighter » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:03 am

Kataphrut wrote:Not gonna lie, really like what they did with Jiren in the latest episode.

When he attacked the stands, that was actually a well-done character moment of highlighting just how broken he truly is. In fact, it might be the best thing they've done with him.

They've only just started running with this characterisation of him as the dude who abandons everything in pursuit of strength, and most of the time that only ever amounted to being a stoic jerk. Now we see him on the back-foot and starting to questions everything, getting more desperate. He couldn't accept Goku beating him because it would basically invalidate everything he'd done, and everything he'd become up to that point. Him attacking the stands was this desperate lashing out, and when Goku blocked it, and THEN turned the fight around on him and basically overwhelmed him in anger for attacking his friends, that was it. It pretty much destroyed his worldview to the point he was ready to accept defeat. I almost wish it had ended there, since he has basically nothing left to push him on for the last leg of the fight except the vague hope of winning the Super Dragon Balls, which he no longer seems to even care about.

In one of the many "OMG Jiren is a bad character threads" we've had on this board, I remember saying it feels like he's either the worst-written Dragon Ball character ever or the best-written. This was right before the backstory episode incidentally. Now we're coming up on the last episode and I still don't know which he is. This is what happens when you have such inconsistent writing I guess, characters can literally swing from shallow trash to surprisingly complex in the space of an episode.
Nailed it, great post.
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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Jackalope89 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:52 pm

DragonBallFoodie wrote:He and Toppo were supposed to be the same character, or so I heard. Maybe that would have been better?
Not exactly.

Toei wanted to give Jiren the whole "Justice!" persona, but Toriyama nixed that idea. So they instead gave it to Toppo. They were never meant to have the same personality at the same time.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by TheOtherDude » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:32 pm

This topic is more than enough proof that the fan base just overreacts about everything. Complaining about a character whose arc isn’t even finished. Ridiculous.

These last couples of episodes have done a great job of showing why Jiren is the way he is. Everyone is just being premature with the complaining. Just like the guy who started complaining about too much Goku time right at the beginning of the arc. Shortly after he made a fool of himself because of the multiple episodes with other people instead of Goku.

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