Jiren -such a huge disappointment

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Vegeta_Sama
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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Vegeta_Sama » Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:42 pm

Miracles wrote:
Vegeta_Sama wrote:I would list all of the reasons why Jiren is bland (not only because he doesn't make people laugh, Vegeta doesn't as well, but nobody considers him bland, so fuck your logic) but this entire thread is litterally full of critics and valid complaints so I don't want to waste my time. That said I don't hate Jiren, I like him for what he is: a wall to surpass, but that doesn't mean that he is any more interesting than that.
No, a lot of people complain about Vegeta being bland cause of his prideful obsession.
MUH FINAL FLASH MUH PRIDE MUH KAKARATTO

People's complaints aren't valid cause they are simply based on their feelings.
But people don't complain because of their feelings. They complain because there's not much to his character. So he's strong, he cares about justice and principles, he's kind of a dick to everyone, and he has a Batman backstory. That's it.
Btw, you forgot to add "MUH BULMAH, MUH FAMILY" in there
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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Miracles » Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:07 pm

Vegeta_Sama wrote:
Miracles wrote:
Vegeta_Sama wrote:I would list all of the reasons why Jiren is bland (not only because he doesn't make people laugh, Vegeta doesn't as well, but nobody considers him bland, so fuck your logic) but this entire thread is litterally full of critics and valid complaints so I don't want to waste my time. That said I don't hate Jiren, I like him for what he is: a wall to surpass, but that doesn't mean that he is any more interesting than that.
No, a lot of people complain about Vegeta being bland cause of his prideful obsession.
MUH FINAL FLASH MUH PRIDE MUH KAKARATTO

People's complaints aren't valid cause they are simply based on their feelings.
But people don't complain because of their feelings. They complain because there's not much to his character. So he's strong, he cares about justice and principles, he's kind of a dick to everyone, and he has a Batman backstory. That's it.
Btw, you forgot to add "MUH BULMAH, MUH FAMILY" in there
lol I forgot about that.. :lol:

For Jiren, That is much to his character, those principles you listed.
People are simply complaining about the type of personality. The way he portrays it.
That's just what emo's do to those who don't cater to their feelings.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by PsionicWarrior » Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:33 am

Miracles wrote: People are simply complaining about the type of personality. The way he portrays it.
Well, no. I'm complaining because unlike for instance Freeza Jiren clearly needed a solid background to give him proper development and make him interesting. Same would go for Toppo actually, it was a great that Toppo had this inner struggle between justice and destruction, but sadly it wasn't built in any way making little impact on the narrative when it happened.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by JazzMazz » Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:50 am

Well, I think this could help explain why Jiren was so bland in the anime.
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:20 am

JazzMazz wrote:Well, I think this could help explain why Jiren was so bland in the anime.
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
That doesn't surprise me.

The only good things Toriyama did for this arc was the concept of UI and designing Caulifla alongside Kale.

Of course he "designed" Dyspo haha. Oh dear.

Anime staff deserve major credit they seemed to have done a lot of the leg work here.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Vegeta_Sama » Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:43 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:Well, I think this could help explain why Jiren was so bland in the anime.
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
That doesn't surprise me.

The only good things Toriyama did for this arc was the concept of UI and designing Caulifla alongside Kale.

Of course he "designed" Dyspo haha. Oh dear.

Anime staff deserve major credit they seemed to have done a lot of the leg work here.
Unfortunately all they'll get are complaints from the fans who claim that they "ruin Toriyama's vision".
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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:48 am

Vegeta_Sama wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:Well, I think this could help explain why Jiren was so bland in the anime.
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
That doesn't surprise me.

The only good things Toriyama did for this arc was the concept of UI and designing Caulifla alongside Kale.

Of course he "designed" Dyspo haha. Oh dear.

Anime staff deserve major credit they seemed to have done a lot of the leg work here.
Unfortunately all they'll get are complaints from the fans who claim that they "ruin Toriyama's vision".
He's so overly protected it's unreal I hope his UI design opened eyes to people.

Honestly I just root for Toei/Toyo to deviate from the outline as much as possible.

I mean 2 of the 3 new arcs for DBS were tournaments and we know Toriyama doesn't script the fighting. The man's a joker. And he has full reign on the upcoming movie...

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Mercenary » Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:57 am

ZenkaiBoosts wrote:Honestly, I now have to agree. Jiren is a terrible bland character who was given the most plot armor and asspulls of them all.

"He revealed his full power about 500 different times"....

He struggled against Omen Goku yet was suddenly able to defeat MUI Goku because he "got serious this time". Insane asspull. Jiren is now officially the worst character in all of Dragon Ball.
Jiren was established to be strong from the start. At least.

Talking about asspulls, while Goku was the one to master a technique not achievable for GoDs for many million of years lmao.

Plot armor and asspulls are Goku's motto. Just get over it, because your fanboyism takes away every credibility from you if you ever had one at the first place.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by PsionicWarrior » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:20 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:The only good things Toriyama did for this arc was the concept of UI and designing Caulifla alongside Kale.
Sorry but it seems to me Toriyama is giving all the great ideas and Toei is delivering all the poor execution lol (spare UI scenes which always worked)
Ofc it would help if Toriyama would care a bit more about the series...

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by HeroR » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:02 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Vegeta_Sama wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote: That doesn't surprise me.

The only good things Toriyama did for this arc was the concept of UI and designing Caulifla alongside Kale.

Of course he "designed" Dyspo haha. Oh dear.

Anime staff deserve major credit they seemed to have done a lot of the leg work here.
Unfortunately all they'll get are complaints from the fans who claim that they "ruin Toriyama's vision".
He's so overly protected it's unreal I hope his UI design opened eyes to people.

Honestly I just root for Toei/Toyo to deviate from the outline as much as possible.

I mean 2 of the 3 new arcs for DBS were tournaments and we know Toriyama doesn't script the fighting. The man's a joker. And he has full reign on the upcoming movie...
Calling Toriyama a joker because you didn't like a few of his ideas is a bit much. Toriyama doesn't always produced gold, but not let's pretend every idea he ever had was bad. UI design by him may not be original, but the idea behind it and how it was used was his, which is far more important in my eyes. Also, the last time Toei came up with a original arc on their own, they basically ripoff Dragon Ball and their own movie. So mocking Toriyama for 'nothing but tournaments' is still more original than most of Toei's output. Even their original version of Battle of Gods was ripoff of the Garlic Jr Saga.
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precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:51 am

HeroR wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Vegeta_Sama wrote: Unfortunately all they'll get are complaints from the fans who claim that they "ruin Toriyama's vision".
He's so overly protected it's unreal I hope his UI design opened eyes to people.

Honestly I just root for Toei/Toyo to deviate from the outline as much as possible.

I mean 2 of the 3 new arcs for DBS were tournaments and we know Toriyama doesn't script the fighting. The man's a joker. And he has full reign on the upcoming movie...
Calling Toriyama a joker because you didn't like a few of his ideas is a bit much. Toriyama doesn't always produced gold, but not let's pretend every idea he ever had was bad. UI design by him may not be original, but the idea behind it and how it was used was his, which is far more important in my eyes. Also, the last time Toei came up with a original arc on their own, they basically ripoff Dragon Ball and their own movie. So mocking Toriyama for 'nothing but tournaments' is still more original than most of Toei's output. Even their original version of Battle of Gods was ripoff of the Garlic Jr Saga.
Considering Toei/Toyo have to do most of the work for tournaments, there's every right to question Toriyama. More laziness on his part.

I'm mad because he only seems to have good ideas when prompted.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by HeroR » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:57 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote: Considering Toei/Toyo have to do most of the work for tournaments, there's every right to question Toriyama. More laziness on his part.

I'm mad because he only seems to have good ideas when prompted.
Well yeah, but Toriyama outright said that what he likes. He makes the story and all the hard stuff goes to other people. And they have made suggestions and gave ideas, and just because they questioned Toriyama doesn't necessarily mean the end result would be better or even that good. It could be worst as far as we know given how Toei and Toyo acted before Toriyama gave them some guidance. I mean, compared Toyo's AF manga to his Super manga. Despite my misgiven about Toyo as a storyteller, there is a vast improvement. The same with Toei overall since they couldn't seem to move on from recycling stuff from their own movies and the Dragon Ball manga.

So overall, this arrangements benefits everyone, which is a good thing. The process of why good ideas happened shouldn't be that important.

I don't agree with this, but what's wrong with having good ideas because someone suggests something? Even the most creative force on Earth didn't come up with every good idea.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by PsionicWarrior » Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:38 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote: Considering Toei/Toyo have to do most of the work for tournaments, there's every right to question Toriyama. More laziness on his part.

I'm mad because he only seems to have good ideas when prompted.
Mate would you mind showing more respect to the creator of the most awesome series of the universe please lol
I also regret his lack of involvement in Super, but I don't get why you publicly shame him so much.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:41 pm

PsionicWarrior wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote: Considering Toei/Toyo have to do most of the work for tournaments, there's every right to question Toriyama. More laziness on his part.

I'm mad because he only seems to have good ideas when prompted.
Mate would you mind showing more respect to the creator of the most awesome series of the universe please lol
I also regret his lack of involvement in the series, but I don't get why you publicly shame him so much.
This is ridiculous. Just because he is the creator I have to bow down to him? He's not an infallible being, and not above criticism either.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by PsionicWarrior » Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:42 pm

Well there's a margin between bowing down to him and trashtalking him.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:55 pm

PsionicWarrior wrote:Well there's a margin between bowing down to him and trashtalking him.
And how am I trash talking him? Calling him lazy is not trash talking.

Besides people can talk smack on Toei all the time and it's okay despite them doing the majority of the work but as soon as anyone talks negative about Toriyama it's heresy? I don't like that one bit.

The guy just sits there scribbles some bullet points and couple of designs and that's it. And even then he's cutting corners and being lazy so yes he deserves criticism.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Aman » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:43 pm

His character doesn't speak.... his parents and master were killed...

That's some top notch writing AT.

The biggest problem with Jiren is there is absolutely no substance, he's just an OP strong with a weak ass backstory.

It's just sad that such power was wasted on bland character like him, the design is really weak as well.

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
PsionicWarrior wrote:Well there's a margin between bowing down to him and trashtalking him.
And how am I trash talking him? Calling him lazy is not trash talking.

Besides people can talk smack on Toei all the time and it's okay despite them doing the majority of the work but as soon as anyone talks negative about Toriyama it's heresy? I don't like that one bit.

The guy just sits there scribbles some bullet points and couple of designs and that's it. And even then he's cutting corners and being lazy so yes he deserves criticism.
I hate the idea that he's so great because he's the creator of DB. His writing is poor, especially when compared to the top manga.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:01 pm

Aman wrote:I hate the idea that he's so great because he's the creator of DB. His writing is poor, especially when compared to the top manga.
Resurrection "F" proved that with no doubt. He can come with good designs when he wants to and does write characters well when he wants to. But the fact his 2 outta 3 idea's for new arcs of his are tournaments which require less input from him say's a lot really.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Miracles » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:10 pm

PsionicWarrior wrote:
Miracles wrote: People are simply complaining about the type of personality. The way he portrays it.
Well, no. I'm complaining because unlike for instance Freeza Jiren clearly needed a solid background to give him proper development and make him interesting. Same would go for Toppo actually, it was a great that Toppo had this inner struggle between justice and destruction, but sadly it wasn't built in any way making little impact on the narrative when it happened.
Jiren's background was already a business is booming pitch. When he came in stated to be stronger than his god of destruction Belmound.
Jiren being a quiet powerhouse was very interesting. People are mad cause he has a tragic past which is the reason for his strength. They gave us a solid background for who Jiren is today.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by PsionicWarrior » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:40 pm

Miracles wrote:They gave us a solid background for who Jiren is today.
They gave us a 2mns flashback.

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