Why have the climaxes for Super been so unconventional?

[FortuneSSJ]

This is the right answer:

Because Toriyama is an unconventional writer.

[GamerSkull]

I'm not sure if this is intentional, but I think in their effort to make things less predictable... they've made things even more so.

[sintzu]

This is the right answer:

Because Toriyama is an unconventional writer.

Which is great because it's not the norm but now that its happened so many times, it's becoming the norm. I think there needs to be a balance between the heroes winning and unexpected endings to keep everyone guessing.

[MajinMan]

This is the right answer:

Because Toriyama is an unconventional writer.

Which is great because it's not the norm but now that its happened so many times, it's becoming the norm. I think there needs to be a balance between the heroes winning and unexpected endings to keep everyone guessing.

But then people would expect him to change from his norm and let Goku win, so he continues to make his characters lose which defies expectations in a weird meta way.

[Raphael_Z]

With the exception of Ressurection ‘F’ (and even that required a last minute save by Whis), none of the major arcs in the series have had the heroes actually defeating the antagonists. Goku lost to Beerus, he forfeited his match against Hit, Zen-Oh was the one who got rid of Zamasu, and [spoiler]Goku apparently loses to Jiren.[/spoiler]

My question is, why do you think this has been the case?

Because having Goku win is extremely predictable and boring.

[Lionel]

It's already predictable enough with the current layout of the fight. If Toriyama was really trying to subvert our expectations then we probably wouldn't be where we're at right now. Goku might have been eliminated by Toppo back at the beginning of the tournament and Jiren would have been thrown out of bounds with a Mafuba tactic courtesy of Roshi or Tenshinhan. No flashy transformations, no grandiose spectacle, just a simple common sense tactic along with a more sensible interpretation of Base Goku's reaction to being hit with an attack by Toppo, in my opinion.

Sound disappointing? Well I think that kind of material would constitute as expectational subversion at its finest arguably. Turn the finale up on its head with the main protagonist and antagonist in-tow then go from there.

[Vegeta_Sama]

It's already predictable enough with the current layout of the fight. If Toriyama was really trying to subvert our expectations then we probably wouldn't be where we're at right now. Goku might have been eliminated by Toppo back at the beginning of the tournament and Jiren would have been thrown out of bounds with a Mafuba tactic courtesy of Roshi or Tenshinhan. No flashy transformations, no grandiose spectacle, just a simple common sense tactic along with a more sensible interpretation of Base Goku's reaction to being hit with an attack by Toppo, in my opinion.

Sound disappointing? Well I think that kind of material would constitute as expectational subversion at its finest arguably. Turn the finale up on its head with the main protagonist and antagonist in-tow then go from there.

What's the point of beign unpredictable if it's just gonna be lame?

[Lionel]

It's already predictable enough with the current layout of the fight. If Toriyama was really trying to subvert our expectations then we probably wouldn't be where we're at right now. Goku might have been eliminated by Toppo back at the beginning of the tournament and Jiren would have been thrown out of bounds with a Mafuba tactic courtesy of Roshi or Tenshinhan. No flashy transformations, no grandiose spectacle, just a simple common sense tactic along with a more sensible interpretation of Base Goku's reaction to being hit with an attack by Toppo, in my opinion.

Sound disappointing? Well I think that kind of material would constitute as expectational subversion at its finest arguably. Turn the finale up on its head with the main protagonist and antagonist in-tow then go from there.

What's the point of beign unpredictable if it's just gonna be lame?

Well there's several different ways you could go about vying for cleverness while still being entertaining to the viewer. But then it would require a style of thinking and creativity that's not expected from Toriyama.

[Nero<>Akira]

Toriyama likes to mess with you on purpose. His biggest goal is to have you laugh, entertained and for him to be happy with what he has written. and the more unconventional, the better. As long as its good and executed well.

[JulieYBM]

In hindsight, one of the worst ideas Toriyama ever had was Gokuu and Tenshinhan's rematch. The fight had no tension to it and Gokuu wound up winning effortlessly because he had already lost once and he needed to hurry up and fight Ma Junior. It was a foregone conclusion that ultimately hindered Gokuu in no way.

[lancerman]

I don't get how this is unconventional..

-Goku lost to Jackie Chun
-Goku lost to Tenshinhan
-Goku didn't really beat Vegeta, he was left broken and Gohan needed to transform to get the job done.
-Goku didn't beat Cell, it was a stalemate, Goku conceded, and Gohan got the win.

Even in some of how wins, do you really count becoming an Oozaru a real win against Pilaf? He beat Boo by borrowing everyone's energy to do it, he didn't exactly win himself. Does Black even count, he wasn't the leader of the Army Goku fought the whole way, he was just an underling who got fed up with the real antagonist and offed him.

Goku's purely clean wins in the series against main antagonists were:

1. King Piccolo
2. Piccolo Jr
3. Freeza

If you're talking about purely clean wins against antagonists (but if you are counting Pilaf and Black, you should count Goku killing Freeza in the second arc),

It's nothing new

[WittyUsername]

I don't get how this is unconventional..

-Goku lost to Jackie Chun
-Goku lost to Tenshinhan
-Goku didn't really beat Vegeta, he was left broken and Gohan needed to transform to get the job done.
-Goku didn't beat Cell, it was a stalemate, Goku conceded, and Gohan got the win.

Even in some of how wins, do you really count becoming an Oozaru a real win against Pilaf? He beat Boo by borrowing everyone's energy to do it, he didn't exactly win himself. Does Black even count, he wasn't the leader of the Army Goku fought the whole way, he was just an underling who got fed up with the real antagonist and offed him.

Goku's purely clean wins in the series against main antagonists were:

1. King Piccolo
2. Piccolo Jr
3. Freeza

If you're talking about purely clean wins against antagonists (but if you are counting Pilaf and Black, you should count Goku killing Freeza in the second arc),

It's nothing new

I didn’t say that Goku needed to be the one to win, but Super for the most part has avoided having the good guys in general actually winning against the antagonists. The Future Trunks arc could’ve potentially averted this if they had Trunks actually succeed in destroying Zamasu, but Zen-Oh ended up being the one to do it, and he’s not really a “good guy”.