Y’know... I don’t get Toei/Toriyama/Toyotaro’s decisions at times.

[Master Xar]

Much as I love Super, i’ve come to notice some very ODD decision making the staff does for it, first there was the inappropriate Omen of Victory placement, the Buu relevance teasing (3 times... like seriously make up your minds), very odd pacing in literally ALL the arcs not recapped, U6 was very fast paced, Black arc was even at first, then slow, then REALLY fast at the end. And the ToP in bits and pieces is all over the place.

Y’know sometimes I wish we DID get a seasonal anime adaptation, because the continuous format, under the Toriyama outline running is clearly causing some issues. I hope this hiatus gives them time to fix it and hopefully whoever was behind rushing Super out the door the first time has learned their lesson and gives the Pre-Production a lot more time for pacing, storyboarding, and overall keeping all staff, writing and animation included on the same page so they avoid the issues they had the first time around.

I genuinely feel that rough start is what really threw Super off from being great in more ways than just the animation.

[sintzu]

I think there are 3 things causing issues with Super :

time : the show was rushed into production but with there being a break that's something it won't go through when it's back.

Toriyama's outlines : That inself is the issues, they're outlines. I think Toriyama needs to get more involved and give them more to go on.

The amount of writers on Toei's side : The manga starting from the Champa arc has had a lot more of a natural pace and flow to it mostly due to there just being one writer. The anime on the other hand has multiple ones with each seemingly wanting to do something different.

[Master Xar]

I think there are 3 things causing issues with Super :

time : the show was rushed into production but with there being a break that's something it won't go through when it's back.

Toriyama's outlines : That inself is the issues, they're outlines. I think Toriyama needs to get more involved and give them more to go on.

The amount of writers on Toei's side : The manga starting from the Champa arc has had a lot more of a natural pace and flow to it mostly due to there just being one writer. The anime on the other hand has multiple ones with each seemingly wanting to do something different.

For 2 we probably wouldn’t even have the outlines in the first place and have him more involved if they had more planning to make it work I.E. Pre-Production

As for the Toei writers, while I do feel a good amount of it is “too many cooks in the kitchen” I also feel there is a genuine lack of communication between the writers themselves which leads to some of the contradicting dialogue and direction at times, everyone wants to do something different, and they’d have easily resolved this had they went over scripts and planned out the direction for the episodes better, which once again I feel stems from the lack of Pre-Production for them to have time to do that in the first episodes and from there on keep the schedule and pace going.

I can feel the staff genuinely care for the show and want it to succeed and be at it’s best, toshio from twitter and a lot we’ve seen from animators on Twitter (namely Shida, the guy seems to want to always improve on his previous Super work)

It’s that damn pre-production I’m tellin’ you, had they got like 4-5 more months the show could reach it’s true potential and the frustrates me to no end.

It’s like a healthy marathon runner that’s nice and fitted for a race, ambitious and desiring to get first place, but they get shot in the kneecap before the race even BEGAN!

At the same time it makes me all the more eager for the return when the show gets the production it DESERVES as one of the most recognized franchises in the world, and that it’ll come back stronger, harder, and better than before.

[Yuli Ban]

Toei's coming at this series looking not at the threads on how to make other characters relevant or discussions about possible plotlines left unexplored in the original series— no, they're giving extensive focus to those sexy merchandise sales charts. That's what's actually driving their decision making.

The effects, of course, can be taken in many different ways. However, I think that understanding why Dragon Ball has never really quite "achieved its true potential" is because of a disconnect between what many fans want and what the series actually is.

One day, someone else will come along and iterate perfectly my feelings on the matter, but my take on why they do what they do is because Dragon Ball is, at its core, a parodic cartoon. In the beginning, Toriyama never went too much in-depth explaining things or giving much time to pace things out because the expectation was that viewers already knew what it was parodying and were laughing at the cartoonish satire. That's why it used characters, beats, assets, et al from myths, stories, Shaw Brothers and Hammer Films, etc. The slower and more epic feeling of some events (like the Son Goku vs. Jackie Chun or Gohan vs. Cell fights) were notable because they weren't really poking fun at anything but were, instead, treated fairly seriously.

The point I'm getting at is: do you expect really solid handling on tone and plot in, say, a typical Ben Stiller or Steve Martin comedy? No, you're there for the jokes. The only timing that really matters in these movies is the timing for the jokes and gags. Nothing even really needs to be said about the likes of Adam Sandler, whose films are largely "by the numbers" standard comedies fitted into some generic wacky gimmick.
Similar thing can be said for Dragon Ball Super coupled with the cold fact that it's largely a cash-in mixed with nostalgic nods to older days (and there's nothing wrong with that).

In a comedy, you don't need a villain whose motivations are actually well thought out as long as that villain is extremely interesting and intimidating. And you can get away with something that's extremely generic and by the numbers if you also spend time cleverly deconstructing it. That's why Team Four Star's take on Freeza and Cell is so well liked. That's also why Monty Python and the Holy Grail is considered one of the greatest movies of all time.


That said, that's how Dragon Ball was written. The problem is that some writers mistook "shonenized parody and homage" with "cheap, shallow, lazy writing" (as I realized when playing through Ultimate Tenkaichi's Hero Mode, which to this day I will put money down on saying has the most ass-up storyline ever written). We're seeing that with Super, where even when there isn't really anything being parodied except the series itself, the same writing standards are used. What as tolerable in Dragon Ball is much more egregious here for that reason.


Of course, it still was all present in Dragon Ball. Bizarre schizophrenic pacing problems, strange storyboarding choices, downright nonsensical actions, etc.

[Saturnine]

People will never be happy with Dragonball, because people want Broly muscles, Ssj4 machismo and Gogeta (because for some reason he's apparently more badass than Vegetto). These are all things that Toei introduced with their fillers and theatricals, but ones that Toriyama never really cared for or focused on.

[AnimeNation101]

People will never be happy with Dragonball, because people want Broly muscles, Ssj4 machismo and Gogeta (because for some reason he's apparently more badass than Vegetto). These are all things that Toei introduced with their fillers and theatricals, but ones that Toriyama never really cared for or focused on.

No. I think people want a well planned and developed arc with an interesting story, consist character development, and a build up that makes the fights much more worth it than just getting a random fight with no build up.

[Xeogran]

People will never be happy with Dragonball, because people want Broly muscles, Ssj4 machismo and Gogeta (because for some reason he's apparently more badass than Vegetto). These are all things that Toei introduced with their fillers and theatricals, but ones that Toriyama never really cared for or focused on.

Personally, Vegetto can never win his fights so I'd like to see Gogeta showing him how it's done.

[Saturnine]

People will never be happy with Dragonball, because people want Broly muscles, Ssj4 machismo and Gogeta (because for some reason he's apparently more badass than Vegetto). These are all things that Toei introduced with their fillers and theatricals, but ones that Toriyama never really cared for or focused on.

Personally, Vegetto can never win his fights so I'd like to see Gogeta showing him how it's done.

Like against Omega Shenron, huh xD

[Grimlock]

Like against Omega Shenron, huh xD

You mean like against Janemba, right?

[Saturnine]

Like against Omega Shenron, huh xD

You mean like against Janemba, right?

And that's the problem - Gogeta doesn't even have consistent portrayal. He gets called a badass because he brings resolution to a theatrical movie, which he was clearly a plot device to bring a resolution to. His screentime was extremely brief and he barely had spoken lines. Had Buu not had anyone absorbed, Vegetto would have murked his ass just as fast.

[SupremeKai25]

Black arc was even at first, then slow, then REALLY fast at the end.

I would say that this was really noticeable.

The Future Trunks arc had a fantastic start, and I adore how they devoted several episodes (53/54/55/58) to explaining Goku Black's mysterious backstory, and how he was related to the young and promising Kai, Zamasu. Then after episode 60, the arc somewhat lost its touch. It lost its mystery, If you will. The cornerstone of the arc was, after all, the mystery of Black. It is what teased and kept the community discussing for months and months, and so when episode 60 aired for the first time, and Black revealed that he was the Present Zamasu from an alternate timeline who stole Goku's body, the mystery dissolved. And so the arc felt... shorter, I guess? There was much more fighting and less intrigue from episode 60 to the end of the arc.
But then again, This was bound to happen. It's not like the writers could just keep Black's identity a secret forever.

I was bothered a little by the fact that Fused Zamasu only had two episodes dedicated to him, because he was the final villain of the arc. Usually, the final villains of an arc always had several episodes dedicated to them. Final Form Frieza, Perfect Cell, Kid Buu, etc. It did feel rushed. Personally, Fused Zamasu displaying his divine and awesome power, and the final showdown between Fused Zamasu and Vegito, should have been their own episodes. This way, they could have explained better Trunks' sword of love and friendship and Zamasu's ultimate ascension too.

[PsionicWarrior]

I was bothered a little by the fact that Fused Zamasu only had two episodes dedicated to him, because he was the final villain of the arc. Usually, the final villains of an arc always had several episodes dedicated to them. Final Form Frieza, Perfect Cell, Kid Buu, etc.

That's not really accurate comparison since Z has a totally different pacing than Super, I also have a feeling you could just enjoy a 500 episodes Zamasu show lol

[SupremeKai25]

That's not really accurate comparison since Z has a totally different pacing than Super,

I am just saying that Fused Zamasu, as the last, true villain of Super, deserved more episodes than what he got. Maybe 2-3 more episodes, so that other characters like Vegito and Trunks could have gotten more screentime too.

Imagine if Perfect Cell had been defeated in two episodes. Or if Super Buu had been destroyed in 3 and a half episodes. Of course it wouldn't have been right! Same thing with Fused Zamasu.

I also have a feeling you could just enjoy a 500 episodes Zamasu show lol

I am not so sure, actually. On one hand, I would adore such a show, since he is my absolute favourite character. On the other hand, the chances of the writers ruining Zamasu's character in such a long show would be dreadfully high.

[omaro34]

Apparently Broly is the main villain of the new film.

Smh

[PFM18]

Apparently Broly is the main villain of the new film.

Smh

It better be fake.

And if it isn't fake it better not be the Broly we know but rather Akira Toriyama's version of Broly rather than Toei's version of Broly.

[supersaiyanZero]

this is just further strengthening my argument that anything post Z is a money grabbing fan fic

[omaro34]

Apparently Broly is the main villain of the new film.

Smh

It better be fake.

And if it isn't fake it better not be the Broly we know but rather Akira Toriyama's version of Broly rather than Toei's version of Broly.

They ended Super with saying that they have a movie planned and that they were using all of their resources to ensure the film looked good.

I expected something new. Originality. A new villain. We already had Broly as the main villain for 3 different films. Like wtf are you kidding me?

The poster also shows Goku, Vegeta, what could be Broly then Yamcha. Yamcha being there makes me believe it's fake there is no way lol. I like Yamcha though.

[Cetra]

Apparently Broly is the main villain of the new film.

Smh

Heh? What?

[omaro34]

Apparently Broly is the main villain of the new film.

Smh

Heh? What?

Ajay tweeted it and Geekdom posted a video about it.

Look at that and tell me that isn't Yamcha with the scar....it has to be fake. Then again those guys wouldn't post something if it wasn't credible.

[BlueBasilisk]

The poster also shows Goku, Vegeta, what could be Broly then Yamcha. Yamcha being there makes me believe it's fake there is no way lol. I like Yamcha though.

That's just base form Broly