"Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by cuartas » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:44 pm

Watching another movie with buu designs would be really epic

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by IM21 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:12 pm

SSJgogeto wrote:
supersaiyanZero wrote:So much life in those expressions, wow.
Some of them have good references:
Also, I saw this and remebered the conversation about Goku looking like Luffy or something like that:

All i know is that if Toyo did this it would be all over twitter and people would demand that he's fired. :D

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by Shaddy » Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:55 pm

Toyo does do this, all the time. More importantly though, character sheets that you tell animators to reference and straight-up action artwork for what's supposed to be a continuation of a long running manga rather than a remake (or demake, as Toyotaro's artwork usually ends up feeling like) of one. It's not a level playing field.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by JazzMazz » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:14 am

FortuneSSJ wrote:^ Takahashi being a monster like always. Just another day at the office...
I mean, of all the people you could probably call a monster on this film, I would really not say Takahashi is one of them. His work has always been impressive, but in the face of animators like Yuki Hayashi, Ryo Onishi, Yoshihiko Umakoshi and Chikashi Kubota, the title of "monster" is almost undeserving comparatively...

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by IM21 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:58 am

Shaddy wrote:Toyo does do this, all the time. More importantly though, character sheets that you tell animators to reference and straight-up action artwork for what's supposed to be a continuation of a long running manga rather than a remake (or demake, as Toyotaro's artwork usually ends up feeling like) of one. It's not a level playing field.
i was thinking just about the vjump cover.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by FortuneSSJ » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:03 am

JazzMazz wrote: I mean, of all the people you could probably call a monster on this film, I would really not say Takahashi is one of them. His work has always been impressive, but in the face of animators like Yuki Hayashi, Ryo Onishi, Yoshihiko Umakoshi and Chikashi Kubota, the title of "monster" is almost undeserving comparatively...
When it comes to animation you're right, but as far as artstyle goes Takahashi has been unbeatable since DBS episode 114.

Ignore the character sheets is the best thing he could do. Whenever he or Shida tone down their shading already hurts me enough.

As for the lack of consistency, that won't mean much for the casual audience unless we reach DBS episode 5/ROF levels of bad, but that definitely won't be Takahashi's fault...

When it comes to visuals, the casual audience just thinks one thing - Does it look good?! Yes or No?! And that's it.

They can go a little further and say "That part looked really good/bad", but no deeper than that. This is already happening right now whenever they show something from Takahashi (for good reasons). Just like his DBS episodes. The casual fans don't know who he is, but they like what he does.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:22 am

What's the obsesion with there needing to be more shading?
Dragon Ball was always a kid series and fans should stop being in denial.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by FortuneSSJ » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:03 am

Neo-Makaiōshin wrote:What's the obsesion with there needing to be more shading?
Here's another question - Why hold back when they can do better?!
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:01 am

FortuneSSJ wrote: Here's another question - Why hold back when they can do better?!
And since when more shading equals better? How does that improve the animation?
Dragon Ball was always a kid series and fans should stop being in denial.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by FortuneSSJ » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:53 am

Neo-Makaiōshin wrote: And since when more shading equals better? How does that improve the animation?
It's not supposed to improve the animation, but the art. Good shading can make the art look more appealing.

- This Movie is supposed to be the best looking DB Movie ever.
- The production schedule is great.

I will repeat one last time - Why hold back when they can do better?

Can you answer this question? I won't drag this any longer, if you keep going around in circles like you always do.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by Ajay » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:27 am

It's incredibly naive and ignorant to assume they're "holding back", so there is no answer to your question. Your entire viewpoint is so embarrassingly flawed.

Different approaches exist. Throwing a load of shading onto a drawing does not make it better. That isn't how art works.

Naotoshi Shida was very vocal that he approved of Shintani's approach and was going to go out of his way to honour it with his work, and that's exactly what he's done. He didn't "hold back".

Your strange hatred of anything that isn't highly illustrative betrays you. You don't like One Piece Movie 6, you don't like Digimon Our War Game. The staff on those films didn't "hold back" either. They have a very focused and viable aesthetic that stands entirely independent of any animation difficulty concerns.

DBS Broly is exactly the same. If you don't care for that look, then fine, but stop pissing about with this absurd notion that it's restricting anyone.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:30 am

Why spend time on more shading when you can improve the movement? Takahashi's cuts in the movie look so jilted and not intentionally but because he didn't spent enough time on his timing.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by FortuneSSJ » Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:29 pm

JulieYBM wrote:Why spend time on more shading when you can improve the movement? Takahashi's cuts in the movie look so jilted and not intentionally but because he didn't spent enough time on his timing.
This is a good answer and finally something that addresses my problems in a way that makes sense.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by Shaddy » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:52 pm

Is "jilted" a word?

See the thing is, having loads more complicated shading is what would hold people back, not the other way around. That's one of the reasons Yamamuro's models were a pain, because they had multiple layers of complicated shading to everything. The entire reason Shintani's are great is because they keep mostly consistent from shot to shot while the people drawing them have loads more freedom in style and approach, without things looking too obvious when that person switches. Takahashi's shading is only part of his approach, the other piece of it is that he completely changes the feature placement and general style of the characters when he draws them. If that same level of shading was given to art more in-line with Shintani's designs (which, is sort of what Shida is doing already, to a degree) I doubt nearly as many people would notice so much when the KA changes.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:05 pm

I really love Shintani's Gogeta Blue design so much! Definitely my favourite design from him so far.

A question will we ever get all of his designs like in a book or something? Seems a headache trying to figure out which magazine revealed what especially when dates have that weird publication thing. Oh and should we expect the BD release to have an other SB book? How commom practice is that for Toei to do?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by Hulk10 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:58 pm

Not loving Broly's lost tail...………..
"We became like friends, we became like good friends." Broly to Cheelai and Lemo about his fur pelt.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by mahakaishin1991 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:57 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote:
Neo-Makaiōshin wrote:What's the obsesion with there needing to be more shading?
Here's another question - Why hold back when they can do better?!
more is not better

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by mahakaishin1991 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:59 pm

Hulk10 wrote:Not loving Broly's lost tail...………..
why?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by majinwarman » Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:02 pm

I need to write down these thoughts considering I have been seeing this on the internet for a while. I'm tired of people calling Takahashi the true savior of Dragon Ball. Takahashi is a fine animator and I'm glad that you like him but there are so many who are better than him. People need to stop putting Takahashi in a category he doesn't deserve. He isn't even the 7th best animator on the movie. People need to open their eyes to other animators and not be stuck in the Buu arc. We are not in the 90s anymore people. Dragon Ball has modernize itself and you may need to as well.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by Hulk10 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:23 am

mahakaishin1991 wrote:
Hulk10 wrote:Not loving Broly's lost tail...………..
why?
Because you need a tail to so SSJ4 and I like to see Saiyans with tails.
"We became like friends, we became like good friends." Broly to Cheelai and Lemo about his fur pelt.

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