"Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Dragon Ball Movie 20 - Animation Hub

Post by blain218 » Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:57 pm

Okara wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:
Okara wrote: I thought the character designs in BOG and ROF were a lot better than Toriyama’s modern, lazier designs. I don’t get what the problem is in that regard.
They're not better for being 'less lazy' if they require ill-placed effort. They're just stupid in that regard. Designs that are simpler with strategically placed detail and in general look more pleasing will attract far more talent, too.
If I’m not mistaken, this was all done by Toriyama
Image
Image
This is nowhere near as good as the designs they used in the actual movies. His modern style looks lazy and unappealing, not mention rushed sometimes, as you can see with Vegeta in the second image. If that was the style used in the movie, people would be complaining because they look silly and less detailed. So I don’t get why this Yamamura guy seems to be getting such visceral hate for his designs in BOG and ROF. Toriyama’s modern designs are worse, yet most people act like he still puts maximum effort into his work.
Those designs clearly suck (Toriyama's drawing ability declined after GT), but current Yamamuro is just as bad. Thank god Yuya Takahashi is confirmed to be a supervisor for the 2018 film.

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Re: Dragon Ball Movie 20 - Animation Hub

Post by Gafonso6 » Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:46 pm

blain218 wrote:
Okara wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:
They're not better for being 'less lazy' if they require ill-placed effort. They're just stupid in that regard. Designs that are simpler with strategically placed detail and in general look more pleasing will attract far more talent, too.
If I’m not mistaken, this was all done by Toriyama
Image
Image
This is nowhere near as good as the designs they used in the actual movies. His modern style looks lazy and unappealing, not mention rushed sometimes, as you can see with Vegeta in the second image. If that was the style used in the movie, people would be complaining because they look silly and less detailed. So I don’t get why this Yamamura guy seems to be getting such visceral hate for his designs in BOG and ROF. Toriyama’s modern designs are worse, yet most people act like he still puts maximum effort into his work.
Those designs clearly suck (Toriyama's drawing ability declined after GT), but current Yamamuro is just as bad. Thank god Yuya Takahashi is confirmed to be a supervisor for the 2018 film.
Takahashi is not supervising the new movie. He's doing some key animation and it will almost certainly be beautiful but he is not supervising.
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Re: Dragon Ball Movie 20 - Animation Hub

Post by cuartas » Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:14 pm

Gafonso6 wrote:Takahashi is not supervising the new movie. He's doing some key animation and it will almost certainly be beautiful but he is not supervising.
That's sad, he would've managed to somehow fix shintani's designs

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Re: Dragon Ball Movie 20 - Animation Hub

Post by blain218 » Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:14 pm

Gafonso6 wrote:
blain218 wrote:
Okara wrote: If I’m not mistaken, this was all done by Toriyama
Image
Image
This is nowhere near as good as the designs they used in the actual movies. His modern style looks lazy and unappealing, not mention rushed sometimes, as you can see with Vegeta in the second image. If that was the style used in the movie, people would be complaining because they look silly and less detailed. So I don’t get why this Yamamura guy seems to be getting such visceral hate for his designs in BOG and ROF. Toriyama’s modern designs are worse, yet most people act like he still puts maximum effort into his work.
Those designs clearly suck (Toriyama's drawing ability declined after GT), but current Yamamuro is just as bad. Thank god Yuya Takahashi is confirmed to be a supervisor for the 2018 film.
Takahashi is not supervising the new movie. He's doing some key animation and it will almost certainly be beautiful but he is not supervising.
The fact that he is involved at all is good enough for me.

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Re: Dragon Ball Movie 20 - Animation Hub

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:56 pm

cuartas wrote: That's sad, he would've managed to somehow fix shintani's designs
What exactly needs fixing from Shintani's design?
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Re: Dragon Ball Movie 20 - Animation Hub

Post by AnimeNation101 » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:46 pm

cuartas wrote:
Gafonso6 wrote:Takahashi is not supervising the new movie. He's doing some key animation and it will almost certainly be beautiful but he is not supervising.
That's sad, he would've managed to somehow fix shintani's designs
Yeah no. His designs don’t need fixing.
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie. 8)

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Re: Dragon Ball Movie 20 - Animation Hub

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:38 am

Okara wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:
Okara wrote: I thought the character designs in BOG and ROF were a lot better than Toriyama’s modern, lazier designs. I don’t get what the problem is in that regard.
They're not better for being 'less lazy' if they require ill-placed effort. They're just stupid in that regard. Designs that are simpler with strategically placed detail and in general look more pleasing will attract far more talent, too.
If I’m not mistaken, this was all done by Toriyama
[spoiler]Image
Image[/spoiler]
This is nowhere near as good as the designs they used in the actual movies. His modern style looks lazy and unappealing, not mention rushed sometimes, as you can see with Vegeta in the second image. If that was the style used in the movie, people would be complaining because they look silly and less detailed. So I don’t get why this Yamamura guy seems to be getting such visceral hate for his designs in BOG and ROF. Toriyama’s modern designs are worse, yet most people act like he still puts maximum effort into his work.
I think the point you're not taking into account he obviously wasn't designing these for animators to use. He was just drawing them. Toriyama is not a character designer. If he was his approach would have almost definitely been different.

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Re: Dragon Ball Movie 20 - Animation Hub

Post by Boku no Hitto » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:22 am

Has anyone pointed out we've already seen these designs animated before?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1XLIx54SAWw

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Re: Dragon Ball Movie 20 - Animation Hub

Post by Ajay » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:32 am

Boku no Hitto wrote:Has anyone pointed out we've already seen these designs animated before?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1XLIx54SAWw
No because they're not the same designs, they're just stylistically similar. You could also point to the Nippon Ijinn Taosho from 2007 as another example of a similar approach.
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Re: Dragon Ball Movie 20 - Animation Hub

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:36 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Okara wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:
They're not better for being 'less lazy' if they require ill-placed effort. They're just stupid in that regard. Designs that are simpler with strategically placed detail and in general look more pleasing will attract far more talent, too.
If I’m not mistaken, this was all done by Toriyama
[spoiler]Image
Image[/spoiler]
This is nowhere near as good as the designs they used in the actual movies. His modern style looks lazy and unappealing, not mention rushed sometimes, as you can see with Vegeta in the second image. If that was the style used in the movie, people would be complaining because they look silly and less detailed. So I don’t get why this Yamamura guy seems to be getting such visceral hate for his designs in BOG and ROF. Toriyama’s modern designs are worse, yet most people act like he still puts maximum effort into his work.
I think the point you're not taking into account he obviously wasn't designing these for animators to use. He was just drawing them. Toriyama is not a character designer. If he was his approach would have almost definitely been different.
This is to say nothing of how there is always going to be an animation character designer who will create their own designs so that they can actually correct the key animation to look more like their style, too.
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Re: Dragon Ball Movie 20 - Animation Hub

Post by emperior » Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:44 am

Boku no Hitto wrote:Has anyone pointed out we've already seen these designs animated before?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1XLIx54SAWw
As Ajay said, those are not the same although I believe that, considering how long Shintani's designs have been in the work, that whoever animated that 4D Movie bit was probably already basing it from a rough version of the 20th movie designs. I say this because it seems like Toriyama has been working on the designs too, and in that clip above Krillin has white eyes, something he never had in the anime ever since the 22nd Budokai Tenkaichi.
This is just an assumption though, as other characters keep their anime colors in the clip above. Anyways, those designs are definitely similar to what we should be getting in the movie.
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Re: Dragon Ball Movie 20 - Animation Hub

Post by Super Saiyan Swagger » Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:49 am

Just watched the latest My Hero Academia episode and a new opening was shown off. I found out that Yuki Hayashi does a cool cut in it and he also animated some great stuff in Resurrection 'F'. He worked on One Piece Film: Z as well, which was directed by Tatsuya Nagamine. I would love it if Hayashi returns to animate something in this new movie under Nagamine's direction.

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Re: Dragon Ball Movie 20 - Animation Hub

Post by majinwarman » Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:16 pm

Super Saiyan Swagger wrote:Just watched the latest My Hero Academia episode and a new opening was shown off. I found out that Yuki Hayashi does a cool cut in it and he also animated some great stuff in Resurrection 'F'. He worked on One Piece Film: Z as well, which was directed by Tatsuya Nagamine. I would love it if Hayashi returns to animate something in this new movie under Nagamine's direction.
I hope he works on the film as well. But, he may be working on the My Hero movie right now.
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Re: Dragon Ball Movie 20 - Animation Hub

Post by JazzMazz » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:01 am

I know this has probably already been asked, but how would people feel if the softer approach that they appear to be taking with this new movie was applied to an ongoing TV series?

Personally, I feel like it would be a good change for the TV side of the franchise after the Yamamuro designs.

I think a series with these character designs, and proper planning behind it, could easily be the strongest animated entry in the franchise by a huge margin.


What do you think on the topic and why?

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Re: Dragon Ball Movie 20 - Animation Hub

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:45 am

I definitely want to see Shintani be the character designer of the next series. His designs will be easier to make move but also attract other talent to work on it.
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Re: Dragon Ball Movie 20 - Animation Hub

Post by emperior » Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:54 am

Shintani's designs would be extremely beneficial for a TV show, considering how simple they are. I would be extremely disappointed if Super came back as a TV show with different designs from the movie. Luckily Toriyama was involved with them so I don't think they will be dropped just after the movie, and I'm crossing my fingers that Dragon Ball will keep this look for a lot of years.
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Re: Dragon Ball Movie 20 - Animation Hub

Post by majinwarman » Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:38 pm

JazzMazz wrote:I know this has probably already been asked, but how would people feel if the softer approach that they appear to be taking with this new movie was applied to an ongoing TV series?

Personally, I feel like it would be a good change for the TV side of the franchise after the Yamamuro designs.

I think a series with these character designs, and proper planning behind it, could easily be the strongest animated entry in the franchise by a huge margin.


What do you think on the topic and why?
I personally think they will if it gets huge support by fans. I want these new designs and love to see them in Super or a new series. Plus, it would help invite freelancers to want to work on Dragon Ball.
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Re: Dragon Ball Movie 20 - Animation Hub

Post by FortuneSSJ » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:30 pm

JazzMazz wrote:I know this has probably already been asked, but how would people feel if the softer approach that they appear to be taking with this new movie was applied to an ongoing TV series?

Personally, I feel like it would be a good change for the TV side of the franchise after the Yamamuro designs.

I think a series with these character designs, and proper planning behind it, could easily be the strongest animated entry in the franchise by a huge margin.
I'm not feeling the artstyle in that teaser, so I still want Yuya Takahashi to become the character designer. Everytime he appeared in Universe Survival arc he proved he knows how this franchise is supposed to look and during his short time as supervisor, some other animators were already taking inspiration from him. That's how good he is.

What the next series needs is proper planning. Do that and things will improve.

DBS already had talented staff. Improve the schedule and not only those talented animators will deliver more quality, but also other animators may be willed to work on the show.
The show doesn't need to look like Pokemon Sun and Moon to have good animation. Even DBS already proved that.
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Re: Dragon Ball Movie 20 - Animation Hub

Post by emperior » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:11 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:I know this has probably already been asked, but how would people feel if the softer approach that they appear to be taking with this new movie was applied to an ongoing TV series?

Personally, I feel like it would be a good change for the TV side of the franchise after the Yamamuro designs.

I think a series with these character designs, and proper planning behind it, could easily be the strongest animated entry in the franchise by a huge margin.
I'm not feeling the artstyle in that teaser, so I still want Yuya Takahashi to become the character designer. Everytime he appeared in Universe Survival arc he proved he knows how this franchise is supposed to look and during his short time as supervisor, some other animators were already taking inspiration from him. That's how good he is.

What the next series needs is proper planning. Do that and things will improve.

DBS already had talented staff. Improve the schedule and not only those talented animators will deliver more quality, but also other animators may be willed to work on the show.
The show doesn't need to look like Pokemon Sun and Moon to have good animation. Even DBS already proved that.
Dragon Ball absolutely needed new designs considering some animators weren't even willing/didn't like to work on Super because of the designs.
While Takahashi's art is indeed gorgeous, his style isn't how the franchise is supposed to look. He was just using the very good and popular designs from Buu arc and the DBZ movies from the 8th onwards.

To me, Shintani's designs at the moment look much more like what the franchise is supposed to look, considering he clearly follows Akira Toriyama's style, who also helped with the movies designs.
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Re: Dragon Ball Movie 20 - Animation Hub

Post by AnimeNation101 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:32 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:I know this has probably already been asked, but how would people feel if the softer approach that they appear to be taking with this new movie was applied to an ongoing TV series?

Personally, I feel like it would be a good change for the TV side of the franchise after the Yamamuro designs.

I think a series with these character designs, and proper planning behind it, could easily be the strongest animated entry in the franchise by a huge margin.
I'm not feeling the artstyle in that teaser, so I still want Yuya Takahashi to become the character designer. Everytime he appeared in Universe Survival arc he proved he knows how this franchise is supposed to look and during his short time as supervisor, some other animators were already taking inspiration from him. That's how good he is.

What the next series needs is proper planning. Do that and things will improve.

DBS already had talented staff. Improve the schedule and not only those talented animators will deliver more quality, but also other animators may be willed to work on the show.
The show doesn't need to look like Pokemon Sun and Moon to have good animation. Even DBS already proved that.
With the current design, it limits what most animators can do plus Yamamuro was very controlling. Thats why many talented animators avoid working on Dragon ball.
Takahashi is good but his work isn’t what DB is supposed to look like. Its supposed to look like how Toriyama invisions it and the newest style resembles his manga style way more while enabling more freedom for animators.
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie. 8)

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