Which did it better, GT or Super?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
Grimlock
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8240
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:11 pm
Location: Cybertron.

Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by Grimlock » Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:14 pm

PFM18 wrote:"Super has 2 tournaments" is not criticism.
It becomes one when, out of five sagas, two are random tournaments along with two retellings, and just one saga with something going on.
Goodbye friend. You are weak, so you must be destroyed!

~ War of the Dinobots ~

User avatar
1345521
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 284
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:07 am

Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by 1345521 » Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:52 pm

Nokra wrote:
1345521 wrote:
Shaddy wrote:
And I certainly agree that it's your opinion, but if you just come with the mindset of "I like what I like regardless of other people so agree to disagree" right you can see how that's kind of unfit for a debate, right? We're all arguing based on our own standards here, but that does constitute, y'know, actually arguing.
I don't get where you are going, GT is far better then super, in my opinon. SSJ4 and the ending basically solo over half of supers anime alone. Nuff said. And I couldn't give much of a sqaut if people dissagree or not. Not here to "argue".
The fact that gt ended after just 64 episodes and super is still ongoing should tell you something about which series people were more invested in. Also gt is really irrelevant to the actual continuity of the overall series and no one really cares about anything in it besides ss4. How does two things from an overall subpar show make it better than another show that has way more than just two things about it that people can point out they like?
Just because something is more popular dosent mean it is better. The problem is GT is that is started slow, had a more bland atomsophere and came when people were done with dragon ball. Plus they kept Goku as a kid which turned off the casuals.

And I can point out more things then ssj4 and the ending. Lool. Gt is just way better super.
Better art
Better writing
Better forms and designs
More villains
More consistent with the lore and aesthetics of dragon ball
Better characterization
10000x better ending.
Gt> super

User avatar
Shaddy
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1612
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:38 pm
Contact:

Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by Shaddy » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:38 pm

Okay I feel like I'm saying this for a third or fourth time, but you know just saying the word "better" doesn't actually do anything for you, right? Saying the same things over and over without elaborating on them is pointless. You're not gonna get anywhere by 'lool'ing at people and going "but it's just better, see?". You need to actually explain shit. Listing off the things you like more without explaining why makes you look more like you're blindly defending something bad.

Timetraveller
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 224
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:53 am

Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by Timetraveller » Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:36 pm

PFM18 wrote: You don't think the show makes more if it is better? The popularity is to some extent a reflection of popularity. It isn't going to be popular if it is crap. In GT's case, it wasn't popular because it was a big pile of crap. Therefore, it didn't make money and didn't continue.

Absolutely not. We've seen that many times. Critically acclaimed shows that don't get sequels because they didn't make enough money. Meanwhile, Transformers is still churning out sequels every few years because each movie makes hundreds of millions of dollars. Make no mistake, the entertainment industry is a business first and foremost. Money is the number one factor in how long they can viably milk the cash cow. That's why they brought Toriyama out of retirement and threw in so much fan service to keep the merchandise sales going. Super has almost twice the number of episodes as Full Metal Alchemist. Does that mean it's a better show? People still followed the show through two retellings with THE worst animation in the show so the "it isn't going to be popular if it is crap" argument doesn't hold.
In GT's case, numerous factors were involved in the show not being a commercial success. There are enough threads on that. Purely from a quality standpoint, animation and writing, there are a lot of good things going for it. To me, enough to justify it being a better show than Super. I'm not saying either is any good compared to Z or DB though.

User avatar
1345521
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 284
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:07 am

Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by 1345521 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:21 am

Timetraveller wrote:
PFM18 wrote: You don't think the show makes more if it is better? The popularity is to some extent a reflection of popularity. It isn't going to be popular if it is crap. In GT's case, it wasn't popular because it was a big pile of crap. Therefore, it didn't make money and didn't continue.

Absolutely not. We've seen that many times. Critically acclaimed shows that don't get sequels because they didn't make enough money. Meanwhile, Transformers is still churning out sequels every few years because each movie makes hundreds of millions of dollars. Make no mistake, the entertainment industry is a business first and foremost. Money is the number one factor in how long they can viably milk the cash cow. That's why they brought Toriyama out of retirement and threw in so much fan service to keep the merchandise sales going. Super has almost twice the number of episodes as Full Metal Alchemist. Does that mean it's a better show? People still followed the show through two retellings with THE worst animation in the show so the "it isn't going to be popular if it is crap" argument doesn't hold.
In GT's case, numerous factors were involved in the show not being a commercial success. There are enough threads on that. Purely from a quality standpoint, animation and writing, there are a lot of good things going for it. To me, enough to justify it being a better show than Super. I'm not saying either is any good compared to Z or DB though.
Well said. :clap:

User avatar
YamiGoku
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 321
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:41 pm

Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by YamiGoku » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:20 am

Do you guys like watching moments you like from GT?

I find myself often rewatching the moments i like from super

Goku vs Beerus

Goku Blue Kaioken vs Hit

The first aparence of Goku Black

The fights of Goku, Vegita and Trunks VS Goku Black and Zamasu

Future Trunks Hikari

Vegito Vs Fused Zamasu

Future Trunks Vs Fused Zamasu

Fat Buu vs Basil

Goku vs Bergamo

Goku vs Toppo

Gohan vs Goku

the First UI omen Fight

Goku vs Kefla

Universe 7 vs 6 and 2

universe 7 vs Aniraza

God Toppo

SSBE Vegita Vs Toppo

Goku Masters UI

Goku M UI vs Jiren

Goku, Frieza and 17 vs Jiren

User avatar
Saturnine
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1515
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:45 am

Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by Saturnine » Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:47 pm

1345521 wrote: More consistent with the lore and aesthetics of dragon ball
Yeah, no. GT borrowed a painful amount of everything from Z filler and the theatrical movies. It completely contradicted the entire form of afterlife outlined in the manga, so there
Better characterization
This one's heavily debatable, especially considering Vegeta and his degraded pride as Kakarot's horn-tooter. Personally that alone felt way more off to me than everything that Super did.
10000x better ending.
GT's ending was written to bring closure, bit that doesn't make it any less forced and inexplicable. Goku having to leave has absolutely no justification or explanation if you view it through the lens of what's been established in the manga. Shenron isn't someone who has the authority to make a call like this, and that alone makes it very hard to suspend your belief for that ending

User avatar
Nokra
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 268
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:39 pm
Location: Transcendent Realm

Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by Nokra » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:19 pm

YamiGoku wrote:Do you guys like watching moments you like from GT?

I find myself often rewatching the moments i like from super

Goku vs Beerus

Goku Blue Kaioken vs Hit

The first aparence of Goku Black

The fights of Goku, Vegita and Trunks VS Goku Black and Zamasu

Future Trunks Hikari

Vegito Vs Fused Zamasu

Future Trunks Vs Fused Zamasu

Fat Buu vs Basil

Goku vs Bergamo

Goku vs Toppo

Gohan vs Goku

the First UI omen Fight

Goku vs Kefla

Universe 7 vs 6 and 2

universe 7 vs Aniraza

God Toppo

SSBE Vegita Vs Toppo

Goku Masters UI

Goku M UI vs Jiren

Goku, Frieza and 17 vs Jiren
GT doesn't have a lot of moments worth watching compared to the other three series tbh :?

User avatar
PFM18
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 3701
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:23 pm

Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by PFM18 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:38 pm

Nokra wrote:
YamiGoku wrote:Do you guys like watching moments you like from GT?

I find myself often rewatching the moments i like from super

Goku vs Beerus

Goku Blue Kaioken vs Hit

The first aparence of Goku Black

The fights of Goku, Vegita and Trunks VS Goku Black and Zamasu

Future Trunks Hikari

Vegito Vs Fused Zamasu

Future Trunks Vs Fused Zamasu

Fat Buu vs Basil

Goku vs Bergamo

Goku vs Toppo

Gohan vs Goku

the First UI omen Fight

Goku vs Kefla

Universe 7 vs 6 and 2

universe 7 vs Aniraza

God Toppo

SSBE Vegita Vs Toppo

Goku Masters UI

Goku M UI vs Jiren

Goku, Frieza and 17 vs Jiren
GT doesn't have a lot of moments worth watching compared to the other three series tbh :?
Piccolo's Death
Goku's first transformation into SSJ4
Goku saying good bye to Kururin.
Baby vs Goku

Not a whole lot

User avatar
Cetra
I Live Here
Posts: 3855
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:01 pm

Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by Cetra » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:50 pm

YamiGoku wrote:Do you guys like watching moments you like from GT?
If by moments you mean all 64 episodes, then yes. I would not want to watch half of Super again.
"Citation needed."
"too lazy

feel free to take it with grain of salt or discredit me altogether, I'm not losing any sleep"

User avatar
GT_Goten10
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 266
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:46 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by GT_Goten10 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:05 pm

YamiGoku wrote:Do you guys like watching moments you like from GT?
-all Planet Immega episodes

-all Planet M2 episodes

-Baby Vs Goten

-Baby Goten Vs Gohan

-Vegeta Vs Baby Gohan

-Vegeta shaving his moustache

-Vegeta car scene

-Goku Vs Baby Vegeta first Fight

-Goku in sugoro space

-Majuub Vs Baby Vegeta

-Piccolos Death

-Goku SSJ4 Transformation

-Goku SSJ4 Vs Baby Begeta

-the Tournement episode

-Goku teleportes everyone to Planet Tsufuru

-Super 17 first appearance

-Goku SSJ Vs Super 17

-Goku SSJ4 Vs Nuova Shenron

-Goku SSJ4 killing Eis with the Dragon Fist

-Goku Vs Syn Shenron((First Fight)

-Syn Shenron kills Nuova Shenron

-Gogeta SSJ4 Vs Omega Shenron

-Episode 63&64
Last edited by GT_Goten10 on Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
GT Fighter

User avatar
AnimeNation101
I Live Here
Posts: 2191
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:01 pm
Location: Planet ShoJump

Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by AnimeNation101 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:08 pm

Cetra wrote:
YamiGoku wrote:Do you guys like watching moments you like from GT?
If by moments you mean all 64 episodes, then yes. I would not want to watch half of Super again.
Ok but that means you’d be ok with watching the other half which is 65.5 episodes of DBS. 1 and a half more episodes than Super. So therefore, you’d watch more DBS than GT.
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie. 8)

"I don't think I'm a hero of justice or anythin'. But those who'd hurt my friends... I won't forgive!"

User avatar
Cetra
I Live Here
Posts: 3855
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:01 pm

Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by Cetra » Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:31 pm

AnimeNation101 wrote:
Cetra wrote:
YamiGoku wrote:Do you guys like watching moments you like from GT?
If by moments you mean all 64 episodes, then yes. I would not want to watch half of Super again.
Ok but that means you’d be ok with watching the other half which is 65.5 episodes of DBS. 1 and a half more episodes than Super. So therefore, you’d watch more DBS than GT.
"Half" is simply used as word for "a great portion" here, not the mathematical 50%. And I said that to show that GT has no episode I would not watch, not to say "GT has no unwatchable episodes which comes from the fact it has 67 episodes less". Z also has more episodes and I would watch more for the very fact that it has more episodes. I still like it less than GT. GT and the original Dragon Ball are generally liked more by me than the rest and if it were not for Zamasu, they could throw Super away, as far as I am concerned.
"Citation needed."
"too lazy

feel free to take it with grain of salt or discredit me altogether, I'm not losing any sleep"

User avatar
AnimeNation101
I Live Here
Posts: 2191
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:01 pm
Location: Planet ShoJump

Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by AnimeNation101 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:51 am

Cetra wrote:
AnimeNation101 wrote:
Cetra wrote:
If by moments you mean all 64 episodes, then yes. I would not want to watch half of Super again.
Ok but that means you’d be ok with watching the other half which is 65.5 episodes of DBS. 1 and a half more episodes than Super. So therefore, you’d watch more DBS than GT.
"Half" is simply used as word for "a great portion" here, not the mathematical 50%. And I said that to show that GT has no episode I would not watch, not to say "GT has no unwatchable episodes which comes from the fact it has 67 episodes less". Z also has more episodes and I would watch more for the very fact that it has more episodes. I still like it less than GT. GT and the original Dragon Ball are generally liked more by me than the rest and if it were not for Zamasu, they could throw Super away, as far as I am concerned.
I was just making a joke...
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie. 8)

"I don't think I'm a hero of justice or anythin'. But those who'd hurt my friends... I won't forgive!"

User avatar
Cetra
I Live Here
Posts: 3855
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:01 pm

Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by Cetra » Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:54 am

AnimeNation101 wrote:
Cetra wrote:
AnimeNation101 wrote: Ok but that means you’d be ok with watching the other half which is 65.5 episodes of DBS. 1 and a half more episodes than Super. So therefore, you’d watch more DBS than GT.
"Half" is simply used as word for "a great portion" here, not the mathematical 50%. And I said that to show that GT has no episode I would not watch, not to say "GT has no unwatchable episodes which comes from the fact it has 67 episodes less". Z also has more episodes and I would watch more for the very fact that it has more episodes. I still like it less than GT. GT and the original Dragon Ball are generally liked more by me than the rest and if it were not for Zamasu, they could throw Super away, as far as I am concerned.
I was just making a joke...
I know, and I was just giving you a serious answer.
"Citation needed."
"too lazy

feel free to take it with grain of salt or discredit me altogether, I'm not losing any sleep"

User avatar
YamiGoku
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 321
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:41 pm

Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by YamiGoku » Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:04 pm

GT_Goten10 wrote: -all Planet Immega episodes

-all Planet M2 episodes

-the Tournement episode

-Episode 63&64
this are not moments

GT_Goten10 wrote: -Baby Vs Goten

-Baby Goten Vs Gohan

-Vegeta Vs Baby Gohan

-Vegeta shaving his moustache

-Vegeta car scene

-Goku Vs Baby Vegeta first Fight

-Goku in sugoro space

-Majuub Vs Baby Vegeta

-Piccolos Death

-Goku SSJ4 Transformation

-Goku SSJ4 Vs Baby Begeta

-Goku teleportes everyone to Planet Tsufuru

-Super 17 first appearance

-Goku SSJ Vs Super 17

-Goku SSJ4 Vs Nuova Shenron

-Goku SSJ4 killing Eis with the Dragon Fist

-Goku Vs Syn Shenron((First Fight)

-Syn Shenron kills Nuova Shenron

-Gogeta SSJ4 Vs Omega Shenron
Do you really find yourself rewatching "Vegeta shaving his moustache" often? "Goku in sugoro space" :lol:

It looks like you struggled to find more moments than the ones i posted, so you listed everything you could remember and still wasn't enough, so you added random "not memorable" things, and when that wasn't enough, you just listed "insert" random episodes.

The question "Which did it better, GT or Super?"

It's simple:

GT ends:

new anime?: No

new manga?: No

new movie?: No

Franchise went to a slumber for years until BOG


Super ends:

new anime?: no (not yet, possibly 2019-2020)

new manga?: Volume 8 was anaunced

new movie?: Broly

Franchise more relevant than ever!

hell even Goku SSB from Super will Be a Parade Balloon on Macy's Day parade: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2rGXKn0Ctc

User avatar
SupremeKai25
I Live Here
Posts: 4047
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:40 am

Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:37 pm

new anime?: no (not yet, possibly 2019-2020)
You mean "Yes", after all the narrator literally said that episode 131 is a brief parting and that Goku and his friends will return once a new powerful enemy appears.

User avatar
Darkseid
Newbie
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:50 pm

Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by Darkseid » Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:10 pm

YamiGoku wrote:
You´re comparing apples and oranges. The circumstances for both series are very different to say the least. Gt started to air in 1996 directly after Z had finished. At that time Dragonball had been on air since 1986 in Japan and only recently begun to gain popularity in the west. Simply put it came at a time when the majority of the fanbase suffered from franchise fatique. Add to that the arrival of shows like One Piece and only an exceptional show could have really survived longer than Gt did. If we exchanged Gt for Super it wouldnt be any different. Not to mention that Toriyama had been drawing Db since 1984 and suffered from franchise fatique as well so the chances for any manga adaptation were none existend.

Compare that to Super. Yeah Db´s popularity is higher than ever. Of course there gonna try to cash in as much as possible and promote it as musch as possible. Thats the reason the Manga exists (sure now its become its own thing but at first it was merely a promotional tool). People had over 10 years time to stomach all the available Db content to start to crave more. Add to that the massive influence of social media, the popularity of Db worldwide and its almost a given that Super was gonna be more succesful than Gt. Wait a few years and youre gonna see the Hype start to die down. Sooner or later the Dragonball Renaissance is also gonna end.

I am not sayig Gt was better or Super was better. Merely pointing out that both shows are subject to very different circumstances so making a comparison in terms of success is not really an argument.

Cipher
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6333
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:54 pm
Location: Nagano
Contact:

Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by Cipher » Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:54 am

Cetra wrote:
YamiGoku wrote:Do you guys like watching moments you like from GT?
If by moments you mean all 64 episodes, then yes. I would not want to watch half of Super again.
Co-signed.

There are great highlights in Super, and I do find myself rewatching them in clip form, but slogging through the show around them is usually too miserable to justify watching it in in whole again.

Conversely, with GT, while it may have less thrilling highlights, I can easily find myself caught up in watching multiple episodes if I decide to watch one.

For Super, I'll come back to the movies and manga in the future. I genuinely doubt I'll watch the anime in full ever again.

User avatar
sunsetshimmer
I Live Here
Posts: 2164
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:34 pm
Location: Poland/Equestria

Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:14 am

YamiGoku wrote: It looks like you struggled to find more moments than the ones i posted, so you listed everything you could remember and still wasn't enough, so you added random "not memorable" things, and when that wasn't enough, you just listed "insert" random episodes.
Are you blaming him for GT having memorable scenes that are not fighting scenes?
The only memorable non-fighting scene in Super was episode where Trunks visits Gohan. Funny how this was also best DBS episode out of all of them or one of the best at least.
GT actually has some classic scenes like shaving moustache, Goku eating dragon ball or farewell scenes. And that's in series that is twice as short and doesn't even have any episodes between action packed arcs except for single episode tournament after Baby saga. Super has a lot of filler episodes or such that let you rest from fighting, yet those are somehow not memorable at all. When talking about "memorable scenes" from Super people only bring fighting scenes and transformation. Basically what you did lol.
YamiGoku wrote: It's simple:

GT ends:

new anime?: No

new manga?: No

new movie?: No

Franchise went to a slumber for years until BOG


Super ends:

new anime?: no (not yet, possibly 2019-2020)

new manga?: Volume 8 was anaunced

new movie?: Broly

Franchise more relevant than ever!
Am i supposed to laugh at this? Cause i'm not sure if it's a joke or real argument.
Quality >> Quantity
always
DBZ having 15 movies doesn't make series better than DB because it had 4 movies.
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta

Post Reply