Which did it better, GT or Super?

[Torturephile]

I dislike that way of thinking that you mentioned at the beginning of your post . . .

Which part?

People just think everyone who does not get a major kill is trash.

[Kogu 87]

GT can't hold a candle to DB Super.
Super was superior in every way, from the story, introduction of new characters, use of old characters, the music, animation and fight scenes.

I have to say for an anime about fighting, GT had some incredibly boring combat scenes.

[MKCSTEALTH]

Super did a lot of things much better than GT. It's inclusion of characters aside from just Goku is one. The fact characters like Roshi, 17, and Vegeta got the most development said a lot. Plus it has the Goku Black arc which I felt was some of the best in terms of the mystery at the time.

However, I like the originality of GT over Super. I loved Super Saiyan 4, I absolutely love the ideas of Baby and the Shadow Dragons. And for as much grief as GT gets, at least it's arcs were all original. Not 2 movie retellings and 2 tournaments.

I love both series. I do prefer Super to GT. But GT to me still has a lot of value

[fadeddreams5]

...You are actually saying that Super didn't "make new ideas and introduce new protagonists to Z-team" as though GT did this better? are You serious?

And who did Super introduce to main cast? Beerus wasn't the real protagonist and he isn't even from Super, he is from DBZ movie, so i don't count him anyway.

Other than that, entire cast consisted of old characters without any major change that would happen in 6 years since Buu saga, like Goten and Trunks actually growing up a bit.

GT had Pan and Uub + Giru who was completely new character in franchise.
Goten and Trunks were adults and were completely different than they were before. And i'm 100% sure that DBS would try to make GT Trunks a clone of Future Trunks instead of giving him his own personality.
Entire DBS is just like another episode of Buu saga. Or movie based on it. You can't tell anything has changed since then.
Marron didn't change AT ALL either. She is still a small baby despite having 9 years. Yes, she is almost TWICE older than Gohan was on Namek.
It's like Shin-Chan where time flows, years pass by, mother even gets pregnant and give birth to daughter, but Shin is always 5yo.

The only exception would be Gohan and Videl. You can actually see that Gohan does something with his life and Videl is completely different both in look and personality. And while i don't really like what DBS made with her, yeah, they at least tried something, so i won't be a hypocrite and i have to respect that.
(still, her new look and personality came from movies, not DBS directly. Super just expanded it)

GT didn't introduce Pan or Uub either; they came from DBZ. GT just made them worse.

Goten and Trunks maintained the same personalities in GT as they did in EoZ, which I thought were awful btw, especially in the case of Trunks, who's way too much like his future counterpart, which makes little sense.
'
While I do agree that Super failed at physically progressing the majority of characters, I do not respect the changes they made to Gohan and Videl--especially the latter.

[PFM18]

...You are actually saying that Super didn't "make new ideas and introduce new protagonists to Z-team" as though GT did this better? are You serious?

And who did Super introduce to main cast? Beerus wasn't the real protagonist and he isn't even from Super, he is from DBZ movie, so i don't count him anyway.

Other than that, entire cast consisted of old characters without any major change that would happen in 6 years since Buu saga, like Goten and Trunks actually growing up a bit.

GT had Pan and Uub + Giru who was completely new character in franchise.
Goten and Trunks were adults and were completely different than they were before. And i'm 100% sure that DBS would try to make GT Trunks a clone of Future Trunks instead of giving him his own personality.
Entire DBS is just like another episode of Buu saga. Or movie based on it. You can't tell anything has changed since then.
Marron didn't change AT ALL either. She is still a small baby despite having 9 years. Yes, she is almost TWICE older than Gohan was on Namek.
It's like Shin-Chan where time flows, years pass by, mother even gets pregnant and give birth to daughter, but Shin is always 5yo.

The only exception would be Gohan and Videl. You can actually see that Gohan does something with his life and Videl is completely different both in look and personality. And while i don't really like what DBS made with her, yeah, they at least tried something, so i won't be a hypocrite and i have to respect that.
(still, her new look and personality came from movies, not DBS directly. Super just expanded it)

GT didn't introduce Pan or Uub either; they came from DBZ. GT just made them worse.

Goten and Trunks maintained the same personalities in GT as they did in EoZ, which I thought were awful btw, especially in the case of Trunks, who's way too much like his future counterpart, which makes little sense.
'
While I do agree that Super failed at physically progressing the majority of characters, I do not respect the changes they made to Gohan and Videl--especially the latter.

What did Super do wrong with Gohan and Videl?

[fadeddreams5]

And who did Super introduce to main cast? Beerus wasn't the real protagonist and he isn't even from Super, he is from DBZ movie, so i don't count him anyway.

Other than that, entire cast consisted of old characters without any major change that would happen in 6 years since Buu saga, like Goten and Trunks actually growing up a bit.

GT had Pan and Uub + Giru who was completely new character in franchise.
Goten and Trunks were adults and were completely different than they were before. And i'm 100% sure that DBS would try to make GT Trunks a clone of Future Trunks instead of giving him his own personality.
Entire DBS is just like another episode of Buu saga. Or movie based on it. You can't tell anything has changed since then.
Marron didn't change AT ALL either. She is still a small baby despite having 9 years. Yes, she is almost TWICE older than Gohan was on Namek.
It's like Shin-Chan where time flows, years pass by, mother even gets pregnant and give birth to daughter, but Shin is always 5yo.

The only exception would be Gohan and Videl. You can actually see that Gohan does something with his life and Videl is completely different both in look and personality. And while i don't really like what DBS made with her, yeah, they at least tried something, so i won't be a hypocrite and i have to respect that.
(still, her new look and personality came from movies, not DBS directly. Super just expanded it)

GT didn't introduce Pan or Uub either; they came from DBZ. GT just made them worse.

Goten and Trunks maintained the same personalities in GT as they did in EoZ, which I thought were awful btw, especially in the case of Trunks, who's way too much like his future counterpart, which makes little sense.
'
While I do agree that Super failed at physically progressing the majority of characters, I do not respect the changes they made to Gohan and Videl--especially the latter.

What did Super do wrong with Gohan and Videl?

They stripped both of anything that made them remotely interesting. Up until the ToP arc, there was huge backlash over Gohan's character, so I don't think I need to cover that. Even in the ToP arc, Android 17 ended up being more relevant.

Videl became the most generic and boring character ever. It's not even Videl. This isn't character development. It's character replacement.

[PFM18]

Yeah I think I could probably sift through my couch and find sone spare change, and give that money to some random high school kids asking them to make an anime and use the money to fund it, they could probably come up with a better anime than GT.

[Timetraveller]

Yeah I think I could probably sift through my couch and find sone spare change, and give that money to some random high school kids asking them to make an anime and use the money to fund it, they could probably come up with a better anime than GT.

This was a bit random? Completely ignored the responses that have made to you. I don't really see the point of this post. You're basically repeating the same thing you've said over and over again without giving anything to back it up

[PFM18]

Yeah I think I could probably sift through my couch and find sone spare change, and give that money to some random high school kids asking them to make an anime and use the money to fund it, they could probably come up with a better anime than GT.

This was a bit random? Completely ignored the responses that have made to you. I don't really see the point of this post. You're basically repeating the same thing you've said over and over again without giving anything to back it up

What? People have been stating their individual feelings on it irrespective of any points I have made. Nobody responded recently, or atleast from what I have seen, to any of the recent things that have mentioned. The last page I havent even really been involved in. Not sure what you are referring to.

[Doctor.]

I'll have to rewatch GT, but although I have always claimed that Super was much better than GT until the TOP, that arc really made me question everything I thought I knew. It might just be worse than even the garbage pile that is GT. I'll still hold Super above GT because at least it entertains me and I could finish the series; I don't know how many times I've tried to rewatch GT only to drop it.

[PFM18]

I'll have to rewatch GT, but although I have always claimed that Super was much better than GT until the TOP, that arc really made me question everything I thought I knew. It might just be worse than even the garbage pile that is GT. I'll still hold Super above GT because at least it entertains me and I could finish the series; I don't know how many times I've tried to rewatch GT only to drop it.

Really you thought the Tournament of Power was really THAT bad? I know you aren't fan but I mean you just said Super was much better than GT, so now the ToP brings this down so far that you aren't sure? I don't know how you could put it in the same realm as the dumpster fire that is GT. I still don't understand why you dislike it so much, I mean is Jiren vs Goku not arguably the best fight in the franchise? Whether it be the fights of 109 and 110 or 129-131those are the best of the best. Gohan had his moments vs Dyspo and the U6 Namekians, Vegeta was actually portrayed as being powerful and his most significant victory in the entire franchise against Toppo, the master Roshi episodes, the superb animation, the contrast in motives and ideals between the fighters, not sure how you could consider it to be on the same level as GT

[Doctor.]

I mean is Jiren vs Goku not arguably the best fight in the franchise? Whether it be the fights of 109 and 110 or 129-131those are the best of the best. Gohan had his moments vs Dyspo and the U6 Namekians, Vegeta was actually portrayed as being powerful and his most significant victory in the entire franchise against Toppo, the master Roshi episodes, the superb animation, the contrast in motives and ideals between the fighters, not sure how you could consider it to be on the same level as GT

In terms of animation? Probably. In terms of drama and the fight choreography? Not even close.

Gohan was useless throughout the entire tournament and I was questioning myself why he just wouldn't go full power to deal with weaklings. He had a cool moment when he felt a shred of guilt after he defeated Obuni and that could have been used as a good pretext for him (and literally everyone else besides Freeza) to subconsciously hold back, but in typical Super fashion, they did nothing with it; just like they did nothing with Gohan after 20 odd episodes of the recruitment arc hyping him up as an integral part of the team.

Vegeta was terrible throughout the entire tournament. I think the only episode he was good in was #107 because he interacted with a character for the first time (Roshi) and actually showed, in a natural and organic way, his warmer and more tender side following the Boo arc. In the rest of the tournament? He regressed back to Cell arc Vegeta (identified, for instance, by the fact that he went back to using "ore-sama" which Boo arc Vegeta dropped; though we could already see this particular regression back in the Black arc as well) when interacting with Goku or anyone else that wasn't Cabba/his family. When interacting with the latter group of people, they'd just shove the exact same moments down our throats for the entirety of the arc; as if we, the audience, didn't know that Vegeta loved his family.

There was no compelling conflict of "motives and ideals," since everything was extremely superficial and lacking in any kind of depth. How could there be a compelling conflict when the premise of the arc - that is, that billions of innocent people die whenever you eliminate a universe - is seemingly ignored by everyone fighting? How can I take any of the artificial drama in this tournament seriously if they don't even discuss the elephant in the room? The only time there was any kind of "contrast in motives and ideals between the fighters" was in the Toppo vs Vegeta and Goku vs Jiren fights. And, again, they were extremely superficial. Toppo just gets a power-up; the implications of his change and his resolution are dropped, there's nothing internal happening. Vegeta defeats Toppo by literally repeating one of the major moments in the Boo arc (if there is one thing you don't do is defeat a major antagonist by rehashing a previous moment, because that means that fight literally has no identity of its own). Goku vs Jiren was even worse considering how bad Jiren's backstory was and how needlessly melodramatic #130 was; there is no need to verbalize in such an over-the-top way something that was always fine as subtext. Another fight lacking an identity.

The Roshi episodes had their problems (namely 105) but they were good, I agree. But 2 good episodes in a 40-episode arc doesn't mean the arc isn't shit.

I compare it to GT because they both do the same thing: they introduce a very intriguing premise with the potential for very interesting character conflict and that could serve as a way for personal introspection, and they literally do nothing with their concepts. They drop the implications of their premise like a rock. At least GT has an identity of its own following its first 15 or so episodes. Super lacks any identity whatsoever. It just relies on the impact and quality of the previous series to hold it up and on the tropes that modern shows popularized to keep it afloat. If you're entertained with good animation and flashy moments, that's fine, more power to you. But it'll take more than meaningless spectacle, especially when the previous series always had something more under its (better) spectacle, to get something out of me.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

They stripped both of anything that made them remotely interesting. Up until the ToP arc, there was huge backlash over Gohan's character, so I don't think I need to cover that. Even in the ToP arc, Android 17 ended up being more relevant.

Videl became the most generic and boring character ever. It's not even Videl. This isn't character development. It's character replacement.

Clearly Toriyama intended this, because the exact same regression of them happened in ROF. Gohan was made extremely lanky, couldn't even find his Gi and barely could recall if he could go SS. GT at least kept him the same as EOZ, just started the whole thing of "No ultimate anymore" that was retained in ROF. This was clearly intended. Gohan in Super shouldn't have had to relearn anything if its just months to a year after Buu.Thus why in Super that path was redundant and false character progression. If there was no backlash he would have stayed that way. Videl is also no more interesting in Super than she is in GT. Shes flat and involved in anything. If anything the only reason why Super does anything better than the parallel in GT is because Toei is aware of how fans want to see some of the most vocally represented characters. Their own plans for them were no different to GT. In GT they just did it blatantly.

Also, 17 being given the screentime he did in the TOP didn't even make sense. Why exactly was he pushed a head of everyone else when all he wanted was a boat?

[Puaru]

Not at all. Storytelling, grand spectacle? Epic Transformations.. it has it all.

Good lord no.

The storytelling in the ToP saga was weak just like it was in the rest of Super. They hinted and built up so much that NEVER got any kind of payoff, and which has a very high risk of never getting any kind of payoff in any later stories either. Like how Beerus started to worry that Goku's playing around with Zeno might be a threat to all existence and started to think that maybe Goku needed to be dealt with. Never went anywhere. Or how Goku prior to the tournament became the most hated man in the universe and looked at as evil by most of the populations. It never went anywhere. Or how Gohan was both made the leader of the U7 team and specifically said that he wanted to acchieve an ultimate from that nobody had ever seen before. It never went anywhere. Or how Freeza was hinted to have some kind of plan to overthrow the gods and possibly Zeno himself. It never went anywhere.

This is just poor writing. The only part of DBZ with even remotely the same degree of issues was the Boo saga.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

Not at all. Storytelling, grand spectacle? Epic Transformations.. it has it all.

Good lord no.

The storytelling in the ToP saga was weak just like it was in the rest of Super. They hinted and built up so much that NEVER got any kind of payoff, and which has a very high risk of never getting any kind of payoff in any later stories either. Like how Beerus started to worry that Goku's playing around with Zeno might be a threat to all existence and started to think that maybe Goku needed to be dealt with. Never went anywhere. Or how Goku prior to the tournament became the most hated man in the universe and looked at as evil by most of the populations. It never went anywhere. Or how Gohan was both made the leader of the U7 team and specifically said that he wanted to acchieve an ultimate from that nobody had ever seen before. It never went anywhere. Or how Freeza was hinted to have some kind of plan to overthrow the gods and possibly Zeno himself. It never went anywhere.

This is just poor writing. The only part of DBZ with even remotely the same degree of issues was the Boo saga.

Not to mention the ambiguity of the Grand Priest, and the implication of an ulterior motive, or the Angels not being worried about being judged by Zeno, or the U9 Angel smiling in relief that U9 was gone. All added up to nothing, a potential plot that could have made the arc a lot better than it just being fighting, and goodness. GT at least stuck with a plot-line and actually had conflict with none of the half-assed endings to the arcs Super gave us. In GT, they just killed Omega Shenron and Normal Shenron just said hes taking the balls away in result of the arc. There was no sudden "Oh well you guys proved you're good people, so never mind" forced in.

[Puaru]

Not to mention the ambiguity of the Grand Priest, and the implication of an ulterior motive, or the Angels not being worried about being judged by Zeno, or the U9 Angel smiling in relief that U9 was gone. All added up to nothing, a potential plot that could have made the arc a lot better than it just being fighting, and goodness. GT at least stuck with a plot-line and actually had conflict with none of the half-assed endings to the arcs Super gave us. In GT, they just killed Omega Shenron and Normal Shenron just said hes taking the balls away in result of the arc. There was no sudden "Oh well you guys proved you're good people, so never mind" forced in.

Oh right, the "the angels might be up to something" aspect, how could I forget to mention that. Yeah that was one of the worst blue-ballers of them all.

I did enjoy Super an awful lot more than GT but I swear, Super had no sense of direction whatsoever. I think a lot of us are happy with Super only because it's not as boring and soulless as GT, but it never even comes close to being a worthy sequel to DBZ/the original manga.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

I did enjoy Super an awful lot more than GT but I swear, Super had no sense of direction whatsoever. I think a lot of us are happy with Super only because it's not as boring and soulless as GT, but it never even comes close to being a worthy sequel to DBZ/the original manga.

People also have the misconception that enjoying something means its good. For anime they're rarely simultaneous. Super is just flashy and people think flashy means good these days and dislike thinking that there is no real substance behind the flash, hence all these ridiculous theory videos trying to make Super sound better than what it presents just to fight that fact. A series needing endless theories on it does not make it deep either, it means people either can't fully grasp what they are shown, or that the series itself is so vague that it forces people who like it to give themselves a reason to once the flash is over. Part of that traffic is the only reason to people as I see it still hype up Super. They enjoy the mindless hype more than the product itself. GT never had this because it predated this culture, and that people at the time were much more objective then (from franchise fatigue) than they are now from nostalgia-addiction. GT also doesn't give you that much to theorize because things either made sense or it didn't. There was none of this vagueness Super gives. So narratively Super is just bad. It by most consensus is only praised for the animation as its the one thing people mention when they praise it. Solely. If GT had the fights Super does, I promise you, half of the criticism GT got would not have existed.

Oh right, the "the angels might be up to something" aspect, how could I forget to mention that. Yeah that was one of the worst blue-ballers of them all.

The whole theory of the "Grand Priest using Zeno to free his children" or the "Grand Priest using Zeno to erase the universes to indirectly fulfill Zamasu's goal" or "The TOP is rigged like the MK tournaments" or the "Zamasu being inside one of the Zenos" were all fanbase plots I actually hoped would be the case, despite how absurd and ego-stroking or biased the self-appeal in most headcanon claims are. What we actually got was just nothing.

[TBMx]

GT is Goku Time from beginning to end. Unwatchable.

[blain218]

A bit more time must past for us to evaluate DBS rightfully. We are still hyped from the last 2 episodes. Honestly before TOP I would say GT.

Story:
1. GT - a mix of DB and DBZ. Playing it safe an homage to Toriyama`s story. A real continuation of the Buu saga. A more solid structure. Space arc, android arc, demon arc, almost a copy of DBZ. Enjoyable none the less.
2. DBS - new story. A bit of a debacle in the Trunks arc with all the time travel theory, but enjoyable.

Powerscaling:
1.GT - solid
2.DBS - none Frieza (4 mounts training), Black (better knowledge of Goku`s body), Kefla (prodigy theory...), Kale (the Brolly rip-off) Jiren (he was at 100% probably 10 times, each time stronger)

New forms:
1.GT - unlocking the primal ozaru power and uniting it with that of a super saiyan to produce a SSJ4, seems like a good way to transform.
2.DBS - SSGSS, SSJB, UI, SSJR, USSJBVegeta, SSJBKaiokenGoku - too much forms, most of them acquired off screen or by some strange ritual. The only thing that felt like a real DB transformation was Trunk`es SSJRage and maybe UI, although it probably should have manifested in the Zamasu arc first.

ART:
GT - Solid character art, if we don`t count Vegeta`s hair and mustache . bad backgrounds, solid effects.
DBS - Almost all of the character art was bad, excluding TOP ofc and the last episodes of the main fights in the other arcs. Solid effects, nice backgrounds. Hate the smoke of the Ki blasts, makes them look like normal TNT explosions and not something special.

Character developement:
GT - we see all of the characters grown up, this really feels like a DBZ continuation.
DBS - Cell saga, pre Buu defeat character behavior. Goku is dummer and Vegeta is still arrogant. These are 40-50 year old men. Looks like they forgot what happened when Buu was defeated. Gohan became a weakling. Goten and Trunks didn`t grow an inch.

With all that said: GT > DBS 1-108, but after 109 DBS = GT. If Goku wasn`t turned into a child, GT would have smashed DBS into the ground, but that`s only my opinion

Completely and objectively false.

1. Characters getting random power-ups has nothing to do with powerscaling. Powerscaling is simply measuring characters power through feats and statements. It is not powerscaling's job to explain why those power-ups exist in the first place. Either way, saying GT has better scaling is stupid and false. Base Kid Goku in GT constantly has better feats than SSJ4 Goku lol. In GT we have ridiculous things like Videl, Satan, Bulma and Chichi surviving hits from a non-suppressed Omega Shenron. We don't see things like Krillin beating Jiren in an all out right in Super.

2. SSJ4 is a better design, but it has fewer accomplishments in-universe compared to SSB, SSJ Rage and UI.

3. There was no character development in GT (Goku Time) for anyone, nobody actually got fleshed out more. Hell, nobody except Goku and Pan got any real spotlight in GT. Whereas in Super everyone in the supporting cast (even Roshi) has at least one spotlight episode. Gohan, Goten and Trunks did absolutely nothing noteworthy in GT, Piccolo was essentially not there, even Vegeta was sidelined until the end. While in Super, Gohan gets some spotlight on him regaining his fighting spirit and becoming stronger than before, Vegeta gets almost as much development in Super that he does in Z with his relationships with Cabba, his family and especially Goku. Claiming he didn't get any development because he's still arrogant (which is an innate personality trait, which are lifelong) is stupid and false, especially since he never does nor act in anyway like his Z self. And Goku has been always a naive manchild in all series, he wasn't any smarter nor any more mature in GT.

4. Super is better story-wise also. Both the Goku Black and ToP arcs are simply better than the Buu saga. Whereas in GT the Baby and Shadow Dragon arcs were great ideas with mediocre execution. The Black Star and Evil 17 arcs however are just plain terrible.

5. Super's fights are also way better. Have you ever noticed how almost no fan ever puts a GT fight in their top 10 favorites, whereas in Super fights like Goku vs Jiren (both times), Goku and Trunks vs Black and Zamasu, Goku vs Hit, Goku vs Kefla and Vegeta vs Toppo compete with the best of Z and the original.

Its clear that Super>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GT objectively.

[blain218]

I did enjoy Super an awful lot more than GT but I swear, Super had no sense of direction whatsoever. I think a lot of us are happy with Super only because it's not as boring and soulless as GT, but it never even comes close to being a worthy sequel to DBZ/the original manga.

People also have the misconception that enjoying something means its good. For anime they're rarely simultaneous. Super is just flashy and people think flashy means good these days and dislike thinking that there is no real substance behind the flash, hence all these ridiculous theory videos trying to make Super sound better than what it presents just to fight that fact. A series needing endless theories on it does not make it deep either, it means people either can't fully grasp what they are shown, or that the series itself is so vague that it forces people who like it to give themselves a reason to once the flash is over. Part of that traffic is the only reason to people as I see it still hype up Super. They enjoy the mindless hype more than the product itself. GT never had this because it predated this culture, and that people at the time were much more objective then (from franchise fatigue) than they are now from nostalgia-addiction. GT also doesn't give you that much to theorize because things either made sense or it didn't. There was none of this vagueness Super gives. So narratively Super is just bad. It by most consensus is only praised for the animation as its the one thing people mention when they praise it. Solely. If GT had the fights Super does, I promise you, half of the criticism GT got would not have existed.

Oh right, the "the angels might be up to something" aspect, how could I forget to mention that. Yeah that was one of the worst blue-ballers of them all.

The whole theory of the "Grand Priest using Zeno to free his children" or the "Grand Priest using Zeno to erase the universes to indirectly fulfill Zamasu's goal" or "The TOP is rigged like the MK tournaments" or the "Zamasu being inside one of the Zenos" were all fanbase plots I actually hoped would be the case, despite how absurd and ego-stroking or biased the self-appeal in most headcanon claims are. What we actually got was just nothing.

A story that generates lots of theories and speculation is objectively more interesting and better than one that doesn't. That's what keeps people invested into the story's lore and boosts it potential. The fact that Super does this and GT didn't is just more evidence that Super is superior to GT story wise. GT didn't do this because it did absolutely nothing to enrich the DB universe's lore, that's why GT killed Dragonball in Japan for the next 6 years. Super on the other hand opened up more story possibilities for the franchise with each arc, especially with the possible return of the missing 6 universes at the end, as well as the unexplored 4. That's why Super's ending hasn't broken the franchises momentum like GT did. Being vague is actually a good thing writing wise, because it doesn't treat the audience like idiots and spoon-feed all the info, letting the audience think for themselves and allow their imagination to run wild.

And the nostalgia argument is dumb and false because in reality, its the nostalgia tards that are the biggest haters of Super. People how aren't blinded by DB(Z) nostalgia are often the most positive about Super, unlike folks who delude themselves with thinking that all the things they whine about in Super didn't exist in DB(Z).

And no, people were not more objective back then than now. Fantards and haters are a universal across time and culture. GT's lack of quality is part of the reason why the franchise was going through fatigue in the first place.