Which did it better, GT or Super?
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- RandomGuy96
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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?
GT is twice as good on part of being half the length.
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
- SupremeKai25
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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?
Fusion alone was not the reason. It was a combination of two factors: The immortality of Future Zamasu, which astonishingly allowed Fused Zamasu to endure despite the time limit, and the merging of the two Zamases at a cellular level had unforeseen consequences, with an evolution/mutation of Fused Zamasu. As with any evolution, Zamasu gained new abilities, such as the untold power to clone himself. There is no reason behind that, It is just evolution. It is an explanation. A weak one, perhaps, but an explanation nonetheless.PFM18 wrote:I really don't see how this is sensible. They can just "expand their power altogether" just because they fused? That's not a real rationalization as to why he was able to do this.SupremeKai25 wrote:As for manga Infinite Zamasu, I strongly believe that Toyotaro did a good job explaining that. You have to remember that Fused Zamasu is actually just Zamasu^2, it's a fusion of the same individual. So the two Zamases from different timelines merged at a cellular level, and this didn't merely allow them to remain fused even after the time limit was over, but also to expand their power altogether, gaining the ability to clone themselves. It was an evolution, made possible by the astonishing achievement that Zamasu had reached.
Oh, Do not mistake me for a manga fanboy, I vastly prefer the anime incarnation of Fused Zamasu, and I hate how the manga foolishly deprived Fused Zamasu of all of his unique and creative techniques: The Divine Lightning of Absolution, the grand Holy Wrath of the Gods, and, of course, the superbly righteous Blades of Judgement, as well as the fabulous, godly and imposing Wall, or Barrier, of Light.
Do note that this is a minor grievance, we both agree in the grand scheme of things.
Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?
funny how the Super hates are saying GT is better are the same people who think Dragonball Z is perfect
There is nothing memorable in GT but Super has memorable moments with Black Goku/Zamasu,Ultra Instinct,Soundtrack and the fights especially the
Zamasu Arc and TOP Arc..The animation and fighting scenes in the Top Arc destroys everything in GT & Z yes i said even Dragonball Z
There is nothing memorable in GT but Super has memorable moments with Black Goku/Zamasu,Ultra Instinct,Soundtrack and the fights especially the
Zamasu Arc and TOP Arc..The animation and fighting scenes in the Top Arc destroys everything in GT & Z yes i said even Dragonball Z
- GT_Goten10
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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?
Yes there is nothing absolutely NOTHING memorable in GTLujin_16 wrote:funny how the Super hates are saying GT is better are the same people who think Dragonball Z is perfect
There is nothing memorable in GT but Super has memorable moments with Black Goku/Zamasu,Ultra Instinct,Soundtrack and the fights especially the
Zamasu Arc and TOP Arc..The animation and fighting scenes in the Top Arc destroys everything in GT & Z yes i said even Dragonball Z
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gcUOTcf5NRA -36 Mio views
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JwKQKf6of7Q&t=35s -4,9 mio views
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z46LomxXdQg&t=5s -4,4 mio views
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wANvyVFXKtA&t=47s -19 mio views
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BaLiI3jkvuQ - 10 mio views
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=etnt88WwbZk -5 mio views
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1CgwpecWlWc - 8,1 mio views
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AbC62jPZyak -17 mio views
GT Fighter
Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?
GT had some great ideas... But alone for the Super 17 "arc" I will never ever like the series...
My childhood was crushed... I waited for so long bringing 17 back.. And they did... But in the most worst form ever.
That's why Super will always stay better for me
My childhood was crushed... I waited for so long bringing 17 back.. And they did... But in the most worst form ever.
That's why Super will always stay better for me
- Green_Goblin
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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?
I don't think that the franchise is focused about this one minor character.#17 wrote:GT had some great ideas... But alone for the Super 17 "arc" I will never ever like the series...
My childhood was crushed... I waited for so long bringing 17 back.. And they did... But in the most worst form ever.
That's why Super will always stay better for me
Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?
That's why he speaks for himself personally and not the entire fanbase.Green_Goblin wrote:I don't think that the franchise is focused about this one minor character.#17 wrote:GT had some great ideas... But alone for the Super 17 "arc" I will never ever like the series...
My childhood was crushed... I waited for so long bringing 17 back.. And they did... But in the most worst form ever.
That's why Super will always stay better for me
Spoiler:
- PsionicWarrior
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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?
Believe me I hate GT with a vengeance, but saying SSJ4 wasn't memorable for many fans is not true lolLujin_16 wrote: There is nothing memorable in GT
- Green_Goblin
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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?
His tone was of as if they even have to take Android 17 into account when writing any new story. Which where my comment aimed at, mate.PFM18 wrote:That's why he speaks for himself personally and not the entire fanbase.Green_Goblin wrote:I don't think that the franchise is focused about this one minor character.#17 wrote:GT had some great ideas... But alone for the Super 17 "arc" I will never ever like the series...
My childhood was crushed... I waited for so long bringing 17 back.. And they did... But in the most worst form ever.
That's why Super will always stay better for me
- PsionicWarrior
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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?
Wait what? What was wrong in Super's 17, he's literally been the MVP from the Top arc lolGreen_Goblin wrote: My childhood was crushed... I waited for so long bringing 17 back.. And they did... But in the most worst form ever.
Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?
And you misinterpreted my tone.Green_Goblin wrote:His tone was of as if they even have to take Android 17 into account when writing any new story. Which where my comment aimed at, mate.PFM18 wrote:That's why he speaks for himself personally and not the entire fanbase.Green_Goblin wrote: I don't think that the franchise is focused about this one minor character.
To clarify it for you. I never said or thought that DB sucked without him but still I was disappointed after they finally brought him back in GT
Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?
I meant Super 17 from GTPsionicWarrior wrote:Wait what? What was wrong in Super's 17, he's literally been the MVP from the Top arc lol#17 wrote: My childhood was crushed... I waited for so long bringing 17 back.. And they did... But in the most worst form ever.
Super’s 17 is GOAT
- Green_Goblin
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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?
A goat, maybe. Android 17 was and will always be a minor character. Super's hype of him was the WOAT.#17 wrote:I meant Super 17 from GTPsionicWarrior wrote:Wait what? What was wrong in Super's 17, he's literally been the MVP from the Top arc lol#17 wrote: My childhood was crushed... I waited for so long bringing 17 back.. And they did... But in the most worst form ever.
Super’s 17 is GOAT
- sunsetshimmer
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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?
This is probably the saddest comment i saw in this topic.Lujin_16 wrote:funny how the Super hates are saying GT is better are the same people who think Dragonball Z is perfect
There is nothing memorable in GT but Super has memorable moments with Black Goku/Zamasu,Ultra Instinct,Soundtrack and the fights especially the
Zamasu Arc and TOP Arc..The animation and fighting scenes in the Top Arc destroys everything in GT & Z yes i said even Dragonball Z
I don't consider DBZ perfect, i don't even consider it better than GT. DBZ is the most overrated series i know.
Yet you are the one who had to add
So you basically insulted yourself with this since you considered DBZ as something superior, great and holy.yes i said even Dragonball Z
And saying there is nothing memorable in GT is also ignorant considering that even many GT haters and DBS fans agree that SSJ4 is better than DBS forms.
Not to mention GT having more than 20 years right now and DBS being fresh and so still overhyped no matter how good or bad it is.
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta
Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?
They're both mediocre at best series that struggle to say or do anything meaningful with Dragon Ball.
Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?
Yeah didn't do anything meaningful at all. It isn't like it:OhHiRenan wrote:They're both mediocre at best series that struggle to say or do anything meaningful with Dragon Ball.
-dramatically expanded the lore of the series/had extensive world building when it added the multiverse and the god hierarchy. Now we have more rich lore to enjoy in the DB franchise that wouldn't otherwise exist.
-Introduced the first ever villain with real motivations and nuances further than being evil.
-Has the greatest fight in the franchise in Goku vs Jiren.
-Has fights in which they aren't decided by strictly power like literally every fight in DBZ was/more strategy in the fights in general.
-Fights involving actual emotional conflicts that are deeper than "Yeah you're evil so I'm going to defeat you now."
-Going away from the trope in literally every single arc where everyone is useless just waiting for Goku and they actually function on their own. The linear plot line of waiting for Goku just didn't exist and things were more creative than that.
-Ultra Instinct adding the first transformation in the franchise that actually means something further than a power boost.
-Having arcs that are inherently less predictable because the main cast literally ultimately loses. (Beerus and Zamasu arcs) We aren't left to assume one way or another that Goku and company are going to win.
-Showing us how the character's development throughout the series has actually manifested itself. (Gohan and Vegeta)
-transformation sequences that are a result of something other than just being really pissed off.
-Somebody other than Goku or Gohan getting a major victory.
-Character's power boosts being a direct result of their character development rather than "I spent X amount of time training so I got stronger."
Yup, nothing meaningful at all.
To me the original Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z felt incomplete for so many reasons and now Super has added that feeling of completion to the series to me and I appreciate it so much for that. To say that it didn't add anything meaningful to the franchise is objectively incorrect.
Even GT added something meaningful in SSJ4 being the only truly creative transformation design in the franchise.
Spoiler:
- GT_Goten10
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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?
-Golden Oozaru
-Shadow Dragons
-SSJ4
-Baby
-GT’s music
-GT‘s Ending
-Piccolos Death
-new Planets&Races(Planet M2,Ledgic,Planet Immega,Rilldo..)
-weird/creative stuff like Para Para Brothers or Sugoro Space
-the concept of Super 17
- unique Character Designs(Omega,Ledgic,SSJ4,Super 17,Rildo,Baby Vegeta..)
Are meaningful too
-Shadow Dragons
-SSJ4
-Baby
-GT’s music
-GT‘s Ending
-Piccolos Death
-new Planets&Races(Planet M2,Ledgic,Planet Immega,Rilldo..)
-weird/creative stuff like Para Para Brothers or Sugoro Space
-the concept of Super 17
- unique Character Designs(Omega,Ledgic,SSJ4,Super 17,Rildo,Baby Vegeta..)
Are meaningful too
GT Fighter
Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?
Outside of SSJ4, Piccolo's death, and Baby none of that really constitutes a meaningful addition to the franchise. You basically just listed aspects of GT rather than anything that is new, creative, unique or compelling.GT_Goten10 wrote:-Golden Oozaru
-Shadow Dragons
-SSJ4
-Baby
-GT’s music
-GT‘s Ending
-Piccolos Death
-new Planets&Races(Planet M2,Ledgic,Planet Immega,Rilldo..)
-weird/creative stuff like Para Para Brothers or Sugoro Space
-the concept of Super 17
- unique Character Designs(Omega,Ledgic,SSJ4,Super 17,Rildo,Baby Vegeta..)
Are meaningful too
GT's music is a truly meaningful addition to the franchise? Really?
Spoiler:
- GT_Goten10
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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?
How do you define "meaningful"PFM18 wrote:Outside of SSJ4, Piccolo's death, and Baby none of that really constitutes a meaningful addition to the franchise. You basically just listed aspects of GT rather than anything that is new, creative, unique or compelling.GT_Goten10 wrote:-Golden Oozaru
-Shadow Dragons
-SSJ4
-Baby
-GT’s music
-GT‘s Ending
-Piccolos Death
-new Planets&Races(Planet M2,Ledgic,Planet Immega,Rilldo..)
-weird/creative stuff like Para Para Brothers or Sugoro Space
-the concept of Super 17
- unique Character Designs(Omega,Ledgic,SSJ4,Super 17,Rildo,Baby Vegeta..)
Are meaningful too
GT's music is a truly meaningful addition to the franchise? Really?
GT Fighter
Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?
They've done nothing interesting with the lore. They've shoved cool designs in your face and done nothing with them. The new God hierarchy isn't even particularly creative considering it's just more of the same "introduce an even BETTER God" idea that Z did ad nauseam. If you want an example of actually extending the lore and God hierarchy in creative ways, look to Xenoverse/Heroes. The multiverse feels small, the scope and scale of the series is constantly being reduced with each passing arc. Super is doing a poor job regarding its lore, just like Z.PFM18 wrote:-dramatically expanded the lore of the series/had extensive world building when it added the multiverse and the god hierarchy. Now we have more rich lore to enjoy in the DB franchise that wouldn't otherwise exist.
Tenshinhan, Majin Vegeta, Fat Boo. Paragus in the movies.PFM18 wrote:-Introduced the first ever villain with real motivations and nuances further than being evil.
Animation? Sure. Choreography? I urge you to re-read the manga.PFM18 wrote:-Has the greatest fight in the franchise in Goku vs Jiren.
Most of the fights are still decided by power. Strategy may play a role, but it also played a role in the original series. The few fights that aren't decided by power, when the gap between fighters is huge, are badly written because they blatantly contradict what we know of the power system in this series.PFM18 wrote:-Has fights in which they aren't decided by strictly power like literally every fight in DBZ was/more strategy in the fights in general.
Majin Vegeta once again, if all you're interested in is overblown melodrama. As for other compelling contrasts, then the original Goku vs Vegeta. Tenshinhan vs Roshi, as well. And Super Saiyan Goku vs Freeza is an interesting one as well. Dragon Ball fights are often more than just "good vs evil" (especially because Dragon Ball isn't concerned, usually, with such a general dichotomy) and and you're doing a disservice to them by ignoring all the nuance and the way they play into the arcs of each character.PFM18 wrote:-Fights involving actual emotional conflicts that are deeper than "Yeah you're evil so I'm going to defeat you now."
What do you mean? Goku is ultimately the one who resolves things. They stand around and wait for Goku to fight Beerus. Goku fights Freeza first and then kills him later. Goku is the one who fights Hit. Goku is the one who fights Jiren. The only exception to this is the future Trunks arc, but the entire premise of that arc is "let me go back to the past, ask Goku for help and stand around while he kills Black for me;" even so, it's Zeno who handles everything, summoned by Goku. If you're saying that other characters have more to do, then that's debatable because everyone had shit to do in-between the times Goku was out of commission, but I'd just say that perception of yours is due to the fact Super has two tournaments where naturally more characters have an opportunity to shine against opponents at their own level. They still lack any kind of plot relevance, and their inclusion in arcs could be summed up to "moments", whereas the involvement of the secondary characters in the original series actually furthered the plot in some way, regardless of whether or not they were just waiting for Goku.PFM18 wrote:-Going away from the trope in literally every single arc where everyone is useless just waiting for Goku and they actually function on their own. The linear plot line of waiting for Goku just didn't exist and things were more creative than that.
Once again you misunderstand transformations if you think all they do is give you a power boost. All of them change the user's personality and helps further their character arc in some way. Ultra Instinct obviously does the same thing, so it's just adhering to the same philosophy as the original series, rather than distancing itself from it as you claim.PFM18 wrote:-Ultra Instinct adding the first transformation in the franchise that actually means something further than a power boost.
Irrelevant because there's no tension regardless, considering a) we know they all survive because the end of Z exists and any emotional attachment we may have can only properly manifest itself when new characters are in danger (which doesn't happen a lot considering we follow Goku and Vegeta's perspective most of the time); and b) Beerus and Whis, and now the Zeno, are friends with Goku and they're perfectly capable of dealing with any major threat Goku & co. cannot. The arcs are incredibly predictable precisely because we know nobody is in any real risk of danger; that's why everyone liked the future Trunks arc because future Trunks was in said risk.PFM18 wrote:-Having arcs that are inherently less predictable because the main cast literally ultimately loses. (Beerus and Zamasu arcs) We aren't left to assume one way or another that Goku and company are going to win.
They're just doing more of the same. We saw Vegeta's development culminate in his sacrifice for his family and, later, his speech to Goku. We don't need him to constantly reference his family in speeches or say he's depositing his hopes in Goku because that's just reiterating what we already know. Gohan's development, likewise, culminated in him taking the Super Boo fight seriously and finally realizing he has to get shit done (which Super so stupidly retconned due to a fandom interpretation that Gohan wasn't being serious in that fight because of anime filler).PFM18 wrote:-Showing us how the character's development throughout the series has actually manifested itself. (Gohan and Vegeta)
Oozaru. Grade 2, 3 and 4. Super Saiyan 3. Gohan's ultimate state. You're literally only talking about Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2, the most iconic transformations in the entire franchise for good reason.PFM18 wrote:-transformation sequences that are a result of something other than just being really pissed off.
Why are you lumping Gohan with Goku? Kinda discrediting of the aspects that make the Cell arc, and therefore the original series, more interesting, don't you think? By lumping Gohan with Goku, you're basically saying it was expected that Gohan would get a major victory in a largely Goku-centric series. This sort of bias doesn't really help your case. Your main idea should be "Somebody other than Goku getting a major victory" because Goku winning is expected, and Gohan killing a major villain is unexpected, just like Trunks. In this sense, both Super and Z share the same props, Super doesn't really surprise you in a way Z hasn't already. Regardless, Trunks getting the win is a good idea, executed terribly because the spirit sword is the most retarded scene I've ever seen in my life.PFM18 wrote:-Somebody other than Goku or Gohan getting a major victory.
Character power boosts being tied to arbitrary emotional outbursts isn't a good thing.PFM18 wrote:-Character's power boosts being a direct result of their character development rather than "I spent X amount of time training so I got stronger."
It adds very little to justify its 131-episode length. It's trying its damn hardest to be Z while failing at every turn to capture what makes Z stand out to this day. When it tries something new, different and interesting, it immediately drops it and picks back up the Z pacifier and suckles on that shit until it's dry as ash. The fact that you're trying to credit Super by saying it's unlike Z is completely tone-deaf with what the series is actually attempting.PFM18 wrote:To say that it didn't add anything meaningful to the franchise is objectively incorrect.