Which did it better, GT or Super?

[RandomGuy96]

GT is twice as good on part of being half the length.

[SupremeKai25]

As for manga Infinite Zamasu, I strongly believe that Toyotaro did a good job explaining that. You have to remember that Fused Zamasu is actually just Zamasu^2, it's a fusion of the same individual. So the two Zamases from different timelines merged at a cellular level, and this didn't merely allow them to remain fused even after the time limit was over, but also to expand their power altogether, gaining the ability to clone themselves. It was an evolution, made possible by the astonishing achievement that Zamasu had reached.

I really don't see how this is sensible. They can just "expand their power altogether" just because they fused? That's not a real rationalization as to why he was able to do this.

Fusion alone was not the reason. It was a combination of two factors: The immortality of Future Zamasu, which astonishingly allowed Fused Zamasu to endure despite the time limit, and the merging of the two Zamases at a cellular level had unforeseen consequences, with an evolution/mutation of Fused Zamasu. As with any evolution, Zamasu gained new abilities, such as the untold power to clone himself. There is no reason behind that, It is just evolution. It is an explanation. A weak one, perhaps, but an explanation nonetheless.

Oh, Do not mistake me for a manga fanboy, I vastly prefer the anime incarnation of Fused Zamasu, and I hate how the manga foolishly deprived Fused Zamasu of all of his unique and creative techniques: The Divine Lightning of Absolution, the grand Holy Wrath of the Gods, and, of course, the superbly righteous Blades of Judgement, as well as the fabulous, godly and imposing Wall, or Barrier, of Light.

Do note that this is a minor grievance, we both agree in the grand scheme of things.

[Lujin_16]

funny how the Super hates are saying GT is better are the same people who think Dragonball Z is perfect

There is nothing memorable in GT but Super has memorable moments with Black Goku/Zamasu,Ultra Instinct,Soundtrack and the fights especially the
Zamasu Arc and TOP Arc..The animation and fighting scenes in the Top Arc destroys everything in GT & Z yes i said even Dragonball Z

[GT_Goten10]

funny how the Super hates are saying GT is better are the same people who think Dragonball Z is perfect

There is nothing memorable in GT but Super has memorable moments with Black Goku/Zamasu,Ultra Instinct,Soundtrack and the fights especially the
Zamasu Arc and TOP Arc..The animation and fighting scenes in the Top Arc destroys everything in GT & Z yes i said even Dragonball Z

Yes there is nothing absolutely NOTHING memorable in GT

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gcUOTcf5NRA -36 Mio views

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JwKQKf6of7Q&t=35s -4,9 mio views


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z46LomxXdQg&t=5s -4,4 mio views

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wANvyVFXKtA&t=47s -19 mio views

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BaLiI3jkvuQ - 10 mio views

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=etnt88WwbZk -5 mio views

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1CgwpecWlWc - 8,1 mio views

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AbC62jPZyak -17 mio views

[#17]

GT had some great ideas... But alone for the Super 17 "arc" I will never ever like the series...

My childhood was crushed... I waited for so long bringing 17 back.. And they did... But in the most worst form ever.

That's why Super will always stay better for me

[Green_Goblin]

GT had some great ideas... But alone for the Super 17 "arc" I will never ever like the series...

My childhood was crushed... I waited for so long bringing 17 back.. And they did... But in the most worst form ever.

That's why Super will always stay better for me

I don't think that the franchise is focused about this one minor character.

[PFM18]

GT had some great ideas... But alone for the Super 17 "arc" I will never ever like the series...

My childhood was crushed... I waited for so long bringing 17 back.. And they did... But in the most worst form ever.

That's why Super will always stay better for me

I don't think that the franchise is focused about this one minor character.

That's why he speaks for himself personally and not the entire fanbase.

[PsionicWarrior]

There is nothing memorable in GT

Believe me I hate GT with a vengeance, but saying SSJ4 wasn't memorable for many fans is not true lol

[Green_Goblin]

GT had some great ideas... But alone for the Super 17 "arc" I will never ever like the series...

My childhood was crushed... I waited for so long bringing 17 back.. And they did... But in the most worst form ever.

That's why Super will always stay better for me

I don't think that the franchise is focused about this one minor character.

That's why he speaks for himself personally and not the entire fanbase.

His tone was of as if they even have to take Android 17 into account when writing any new story. Which where my comment aimed at, mate.

[PsionicWarrior]

My childhood was crushed... I waited for so long bringing 17 back.. And they did... But in the most worst form ever.

Wait what? What was wrong in Super's 17, he's literally been the MVP from the Top arc lol

[#17]

I don't think that the franchise is focused about this one minor character.

That's why he speaks for himself personally and not the entire fanbase.

His tone was of as if they even have to take Android 17 into account when writing any new story. Which where my comment aimed at, mate.

And you misinterpreted my tone.

To clarify it for you. I never said or thought that DB sucked without him but still I was disappointed after they finally brought him back in GT

[#17]

My childhood was crushed... I waited for so long bringing 17 back.. And they did... But in the most worst form ever.

Wait what? What was wrong in Super's 17, he's literally been the MVP from the Top arc lol

I meant Super 17 from GT

Super’s 17 is GOAT

[Green_Goblin]

My childhood was crushed... I waited for so long bringing 17 back.. And they did... But in the most worst form ever.

Wait what? What was wrong in Super's 17, he's literally been the MVP from the Top arc lol

I meant Super 17 from GT

Super’s 17 is GOAT

A goat, maybe. Android 17 was and will always be a minor character. Super's hype of him was the WOAT.

[sunsetshimmer]

funny how the Super hates are saying GT is better are the same people who think Dragonball Z is perfect

There is nothing memorable in GT but Super has memorable moments with Black Goku/Zamasu,Ultra Instinct,Soundtrack and the fights especially the
Zamasu Arc and TOP Arc..The animation and fighting scenes in the Top Arc destroys everything in GT & Z yes i said even Dragonball Z

This is probably the saddest comment i saw in this topic.
I don't consider DBZ perfect, i don't even consider it better than GT. DBZ is the most overrated series i know.

Yet you are the one who had to add

yes i said even Dragonball Z

So you basically insulted yourself with this since you considered DBZ as something superior, great and holy.

And saying there is nothing memorable in GT is also ignorant considering that even many GT haters and DBS fans agree that SSJ4 is better than DBS forms.
Not to mention GT having more than 20 years right now and DBS being fresh and so still overhyped no matter how good or bad it is.

[OhHiRenan]

They're both mediocre at best series that struggle to say or do anything meaningful with Dragon Ball.

[PFM18]

They're both mediocre at best series that struggle to say or do anything meaningful with Dragon Ball.

Yeah didn't do anything meaningful at all. It isn't like it:

-dramatically expanded the lore of the series/had extensive world building when it added the multiverse and the god hierarchy. Now we have more rich lore to enjoy in the DB franchise that wouldn't otherwise exist.
-Introduced the first ever villain with real motivations and nuances further than being evil.
-Has the greatest fight in the franchise in Goku vs Jiren.
-Has fights in which they aren't decided by strictly power like literally every fight in DBZ was/more strategy in the fights in general.
-Fights involving actual emotional conflicts that are deeper than "Yeah you're evil so I'm going to defeat you now."
-Going away from the trope in literally every single arc where everyone is useless just waiting for Goku and they actually function on their own. The linear plot line of waiting for Goku just didn't exist and things were more creative than that.
-Ultra Instinct adding the first transformation in the franchise that actually means something further than a power boost.
-Having arcs that are inherently less predictable because the main cast literally ultimately loses. (Beerus and Zamasu arcs) We aren't left to assume one way or another that Goku and company are going to win.
-Showing us how the character's development throughout the series has actually manifested itself. (Gohan and Vegeta)
-transformation sequences that are a result of something other than just being really pissed off.
-Somebody other than Goku or Gohan getting a major victory.
-Character's power boosts being a direct result of their character development rather than "I spent X amount of time training so I got stronger."

Yup, nothing meaningful at all.

To me the original Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z felt incomplete for so many reasons and now Super has added that feeling of completion to the series to me and I appreciate it so much for that. To say that it didn't add anything meaningful to the franchise is objectively incorrect.

Even GT added something meaningful in SSJ4 being the only truly creative transformation design in the franchise.

[GT_Goten10]

-Golden Oozaru
-Shadow Dragons
-SSJ4
-Baby
-GT’s music
-GT‘s Ending
-Piccolos Death
-new Planets&Races(Planet M2,Ledgic,Planet Immega,Rilldo..)
-weird/creative stuff like Para Para Brothers or Sugoro Space
-the concept of Super 17
- unique Character Designs(Omega,Ledgic,SSJ4,Super 17,Rildo,Baby Vegeta..)

Are meaningful too

[PFM18]

-Golden Oozaru
-Shadow Dragons
-SSJ4
-Baby
-GT’s music
-GT‘s Ending
-Piccolos Death
-new Planets&Races(Planet M2,Ledgic,Planet Immega,Rilldo..)
-weird/creative stuff like Para Para Brothers or Sugoro Space
-the concept of Super 17
- unique Character Designs(Omega,Ledgic,SSJ4,Super 17,Rildo,Baby Vegeta..)

Are meaningful too

Outside of SSJ4, Piccolo's death, and Baby none of that really constitutes a meaningful addition to the franchise. You basically just listed aspects of GT rather than anything that is new, creative, unique or compelling.

GT's music is a truly meaningful addition to the franchise? Really?

[GT_Goten10]

-Golden Oozaru
-Shadow Dragons
-SSJ4
-Baby
-GT’s music
-GT‘s Ending
-Piccolos Death
-new Planets&Races(Planet M2,Ledgic,Planet Immega,Rilldo..)
-weird/creative stuff like Para Para Brothers or Sugoro Space
-the concept of Super 17
- unique Character Designs(Omega,Ledgic,SSJ4,Super 17,Rildo,Baby Vegeta..)

Are meaningful too

Outside of SSJ4, Piccolo's death, and Baby none of that really constitutes a meaningful addition to the franchise. You basically just listed aspects of GT rather than anything that is new, creative, unique or compelling.

GT's music is a truly meaningful addition to the franchise? Really?

How do you define "meaningful"

[Doctor.]

-dramatically expanded the lore of the series/had extensive world building when it added the multiverse and the god hierarchy. Now we have more rich lore to enjoy in the DB franchise that wouldn't otherwise exist.

They've done nothing interesting with the lore. They've shoved cool designs in your face and done nothing with them. The new God hierarchy isn't even particularly creative considering it's just more of the same "introduce an even BETTER God" idea that Z did ad nauseam. If you want an example of actually extending the lore and God hierarchy in creative ways, look to Xenoverse/Heroes. The multiverse feels small, the scope and scale of the series is constantly being reduced with each passing arc. Super is doing a poor job regarding its lore, just like Z.

-Introduced the first ever villain with real motivations and nuances further than being evil.

Tenshinhan, Majin Vegeta, Fat Boo. Paragus in the movies.

-Has the greatest fight in the franchise in Goku vs Jiren.

Animation? Sure. Choreography? I urge you to re-read the manga.

-Has fights in which they aren't decided by strictly power like literally every fight in DBZ was/more strategy in the fights in general.

Most of the fights are still decided by power. Strategy may play a role, but it also played a role in the original series. The few fights that aren't decided by power, when the gap between fighters is huge, are badly written because they blatantly contradict what we know of the power system in this series.

-Fights involving actual emotional conflicts that are deeper than "Yeah you're evil so I'm going to defeat you now."

Majin Vegeta once again, if all you're interested in is overblown melodrama. As for other compelling contrasts, then the original Goku vs Vegeta. Tenshinhan vs Roshi, as well. And Super Saiyan Goku vs Freeza is an interesting one as well. Dragon Ball fights are often more than just "good vs evil" (especially because Dragon Ball isn't concerned, usually, with such a general dichotomy) and and you're doing a disservice to them by ignoring all the nuance and the way they play into the arcs of each character.

-Going away from the trope in literally every single arc where everyone is useless just waiting for Goku and they actually function on their own. The linear plot line of waiting for Goku just didn't exist and things were more creative than that.

What do you mean? Goku is ultimately the one who resolves things. They stand around and wait for Goku to fight Beerus. Goku fights Freeza first and then kills him later. Goku is the one who fights Hit. Goku is the one who fights Jiren. The only exception to this is the future Trunks arc, but the entire premise of that arc is "let me go back to the past, ask Goku for help and stand around while he kills Black for me;" even so, it's Zeno who handles everything, summoned by Goku. If you're saying that other characters have more to do, then that's debatable because everyone had shit to do in-between the times Goku was out of commission, but I'd just say that perception of yours is due to the fact Super has two tournaments where naturally more characters have an opportunity to shine against opponents at their own level. They still lack any kind of plot relevance, and their inclusion in arcs could be summed up to "moments", whereas the involvement of the secondary characters in the original series actually furthered the plot in some way, regardless of whether or not they were just waiting for Goku.

-Ultra Instinct adding the first transformation in the franchise that actually means something further than a power boost.

Once again you misunderstand transformations if you think all they do is give you a power boost. All of them change the user's personality and helps further their character arc in some way. Ultra Instinct obviously does the same thing, so it's just adhering to the same philosophy as the original series, rather than distancing itself from it as you claim.

-Having arcs that are inherently less predictable because the main cast literally ultimately loses. (Beerus and Zamasu arcs) We aren't left to assume one way or another that Goku and company are going to win.

Irrelevant because there's no tension regardless, considering a) we know they all survive because the end of Z exists and any emotional attachment we may have can only properly manifest itself when new characters are in danger (which doesn't happen a lot considering we follow Goku and Vegeta's perspective most of the time); and b) Beerus and Whis, and now the Zeno, are friends with Goku and they're perfectly capable of dealing with any major threat Goku & co. cannot. The arcs are incredibly predictable precisely because we know nobody is in any real risk of danger; that's why everyone liked the future Trunks arc because future Trunks was in said risk.

-Showing us how the character's development throughout the series has actually manifested itself. (Gohan and Vegeta)

They're just doing more of the same. We saw Vegeta's development culminate in his sacrifice for his family and, later, his speech to Goku. We don't need him to constantly reference his family in speeches or say he's depositing his hopes in Goku because that's just reiterating what we already know. Gohan's development, likewise, culminated in him taking the Super Boo fight seriously and finally realizing he has to get shit done (which Super so stupidly retconned due to a fandom interpretation that Gohan wasn't being serious in that fight because of anime filler).

-transformation sequences that are a result of something other than just being really pissed off.

Oozaru. Grade 2, 3 and 4. Super Saiyan 3. Gohan's ultimate state. You're literally only talking about Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2, the most iconic transformations in the entire franchise for good reason.

-Somebody other than Goku or Gohan getting a major victory.

Why are you lumping Gohan with Goku? Kinda discrediting of the aspects that make the Cell arc, and therefore the original series, more interesting, don't you think? By lumping Gohan with Goku, you're basically saying it was expected that Gohan would get a major victory in a largely Goku-centric series. This sort of bias doesn't really help your case. Your main idea should be "Somebody other than Goku getting a major victory" because Goku winning is expected, and Gohan killing a major villain is unexpected, just like Trunks. In this sense, both Super and Z share the same props, Super doesn't really surprise you in a way Z hasn't already. Regardless, Trunks getting the win is a good idea, executed terribly because the spirit sword is the most retarded scene I've ever seen in my life.

-Character's power boosts being a direct result of their character development rather than "I spent X amount of time training so I got stronger."

Character power boosts being tied to arbitrary emotional outbursts isn't a good thing.

To say that it didn't add anything meaningful to the franchise is objectively incorrect.

It adds very little to justify its 131-episode length. It's trying its damn hardest to be Z while failing at every turn to capture what makes Z stand out to this day. When it tries something new, different and interesting, it immediately drops it and picks back up the Z pacifier and suckles on that shit until it's dry as ash. The fact that you're trying to credit Super by saying it's unlike Z is completely tone-deaf with what the series is actually attempting.