Which did it better, GT or Super?

[1345521]

Fun fact: the premise of a story has no effect on how well it's told. This is why the phrase "good concepts, bad execution" exists for GT in the first place. Putting Super below GT solely on the premises of it's arcs is basically just saying the quality doesn't matter as long you happen to personally gel with the ideas it puts out. This is the "Sonic 06 isn't bad, because it had potential!" school of thought.

Supers anime has good concepts, bad executions as well. LOOOOL. Well, in supers' case: its concepts are decent.

[PFM18]

The re-tellings were not "completly neccessary", not having the re-tellings, I wouldn't have loss any vital information that'll I need for the rest of the seires. The re-tellings were simply because akira needed time to make more plot.

Then you didn't pay enough attention. (By the way you should proofread your posts)

The retellings completely overhauled the power scaling that was portrayed in the movies, and none of this stuff would make any sense if it wasn't for the power scaling. Even things that were implied, were actually shown too.

[Shaddy]

Supers anime has good concepts, bad executions as well. LOOOOL. Well, in supers' case: its concepts are decent.

Well, congrats on believing that, I don't agree in the slightest. The nature of GT's boring fights, villains, aesthetics, direction and animation (well, "animation".) push it down for me even if the script were better than Super's (which it isn't, for a myriad of reasons I'm not going to go into right now). Super is a mixed bag of inconsistencies and strange decisions, but a roller coaster of quality is still, in fact, a roller coaster. GT's more like those kiddie rides you used to see outside grocery stores.

[zarmack]

Fun fact: the premise of a story has no effect on how well it's told. This is why the phrase "good concepts, bad execution" exists for GT in the first place. Putting Super below GT solely on the premises of it's arcs is basically just saying the quality doesn't matter as long you happen to personally gel with the ideas it puts out. This is the "Sonic 06 isn't bad, because it had potential!" school of thought.

This. I've always pointed out that its fallacious to argue that a series is better just because it had better concepts than another. The Shadow Dragons (showing the consequences of using the Dragonballs which Old Kai warned about) are a much better concept than say, Goku Black (an evil doppelganger of the Protagonist), yet Black is a much better character than any of the Shadow Dragons due to the execution of his character's personality, actions and demeanor (in the anime version at least).

[Timetraveller]

Supers anime has good concepts, bad executions as well. LOOOOL. Well, in supers' case: its concepts are decent.

Well, congrats on believing that, I don't agree in the slightest. The nature of GT's boring fights, villains, aesthetics, direction and animation (well, "animation".) push it down for me even if the script were better than Super's (which it isn't, for a myriad of reasons I'm not going to go into right now). Super is a mixed bag of inconsistencies and strange decisions, but a roller coaster of quality is still, in fact, a roller coaster. GT's more like those kiddie rides you used to see outside grocery stores.

Honestly Super to me is the poster child for a show with bad concepts and bad execution. Two retellings arc with some of the worst animation the show has seen, 2 tournament arcs that make up for more than half the show and one original arc that is filled with fan service and an ending that had most people scratching their heads. Sure, there were much better highs but those highs were all animation related and were few and far between. Consistency and willingness to take risks are what put GT above Super for me. It managed to achieve far more in terms of story telling than Super did in the same amount of episodes

[PFM18]

Two retellings arc with some of the worst animation the show has seen, 2 tournament arcs that make up for more than half the show and one original arc that is filled with fan service and an ending that had most people scratching their heads.

I will never understand a tournament automatically being associated with a negative connotation. You don't even say anything wrong with the tournaments. It is just an incredibly warped and misleading summary of the series.

[Shaddy]

Because there isn't anything about any premise that is inherently positive or negative. In fact, I will go so far as to say that the premise is the least important part of telling a good story. It's all, all about making things interesting, making them engaging. GT is not engaging. All it's new characters suck. Most of it's returning characters become suck. It has decently-drawn art, but this art barely ever moves. It has plenty of better-structured fights than Super, but these fights have basically no choreography and are almost always completely flatly directed. It has a good ending to the franchise, but it puts this ending after 64 episodes of what might as well be filler in terms of how much the events have changed any of the characters. I mean, Goku goes off with Shenron but Uub is basically no different to the way he was at the end of Z! He's not fit to succeed Goku yet! He sucks!

And that's not a ringing endorsement of Super; it makes plenty of stupid, baffling, borderline-ridiculous choices on a regular basis, many of which are worse than basically ever mistake GT ever made. But it doesn't bore me to sleep like GT does, and the actual strengths are among some of the best in the series.

[1345521]

The re-tellings were not "completly neccessary", not having the re-tellings, I wouldn't have loss any vital information that'll I need for the rest of the seires. The re-tellings were simply because akira needed time to make more plot.

Then you didn't pay enough attention. (By the way you should proofread your posts)

The retellings completely overhauled the power scaling that was portrayed in the movies, and none of this stuff would make any sense if it wasn't for the power scaling. Even things that were implied, were actually shown too.

The power scailing in the movie compared to the anime isn't that much differnt. Plus the anime already has thee worst power scailing out of any dragon ball continuty BY FAR so obviously that area the tv show didn't improve on. The re-telling literally did nothing to enhance the show, other then give toriyama time to craft a new arc. lol. It was pointless, and bad. The Rof arc is worse then super 17 arc, and the BoG arc was pretty medicore. Now I do think the BoG was better then the movie, but still bad.

[1345521]

Supers anime has good concepts, bad executions as well. LOOOOL. Well, in supers' case: its concepts are decent.

Well, congrats on believing that, I don't agree in the slightest. The nature of GT's boring fights, villains, aesthetics, direction and animation (well, "animation".) push it down for me even if the script were better than Super's (which it isn't, for a myriad of reasons I'm not going to go into right now). Super is a mixed bag of inconsistencies and strange decisions, but a roller coaster of quality is still, in fact, a roller coaster. GT's more like those kiddie rides you used to see outside grocery stores.

Okay, I found GT more memorable and way more interesting then supers' anime. Its art SOLOS supers anime. SSJ4 is the best transformation in the franchise and has an ending thats a top 5 episode in history of dragon ball. Super literally has nothing but last-rankings (IMO) in multiple subject areas, its animation on ep 130 and 131 were awesome, but everything else apart from that episode was garbage, I couldn't even enjoy it. Sorry, but GT is far better then super in my opinion. Agree to dissagree.

[PFM18]

The power scailing in the movie compared to the anime isn't that much differnt. Plus the anime already has thee worst power scailing out of any dragon ball continuty BY FAR

Like I said, you didn't pay enough attention if you thought that they were similar. They did a complete overhaul.

-No comment that Beerus used 70% of his power
-lied about using his full-power instead, how much power he used is left ambiguous.
-Emphasis on SSJ~SSG and the level of power being absorbed and not the form itself
-RoF has no comment that if Goku/Vegeta teamed up they could beat Beerus
-explained how Vegeta got that strong, and how it had nothing to do with the SSG ritual like many assumed.
-No statement during RoF that their Base surpassed SSG, nor any implication that the "Saiyan Beyond God" that invalidated the golden SSJ forms existed. Without the anime's retelling it would make no sense that Goku/Vegeta had used their golden SSJ forms in the next arc.

And no, GT has infinitely worse power scaling. It has blatantly contradictory statements/feats and it is literally impossible to make a coherent PL list because you can't make one without contradicting statements several times.

[Shaddy]

Okay, I found GT more memorable and way more interesting then supers' anime. Its art SOLOS supers anime. SSJ4 is the best transformation in the franchise and has an ending thats a top 5 episode in history of dragon ball. Super literally has nothing but last-rankings (IMO) in multiple subject areas, its animation on ep 130 and 131 were awesome, but everything else apart from that episode was garbage, I couldn't even enjoy it. Sorry, but GT is far better then super in my opinion. Agree to dissagree.

And I certainly agree that it's your opinion, but if you just come with the mindset of "I like what I like regardless of other people so agree to disagree" right you can see how that's kind of unfit for a debate, right? We're all arguing based on our own standards here, but that does constitute, y'know, actually arguing.

[1345521]

The power scailing in the movie compared to the anime isn't that much differnt. Plus the anime already has thee worst power scailing out of any dragon ball continuty BY FAR

Like I said, you didn't pay enough attention if you thought that they were similar. They did a complete overhaul.

-No comment that Beerus used 70% of his power
-lied about using his full-power instead, how much power he used is left ambiguous.
-Emphasis on SSJ~SSG and the level of power being absorbed and not the form itself
-RoF has no comment that if Goku/Vegeta teamed up they could beat Beerus
-explained how Vegeta got that strong, and how it had nothing to do with the SSG ritual like many assumed.
-No statement during RoF that their Base surpassed SSG, nor any implication that the "Saiyan Beyond God" that invalidated the golden SSJ forms existed. Without the anime's retelling it would make no sense that Goku/Vegeta had used their golden SSJ forms in the next arc.

And no, GT has infinitely worse power scaling. It has blatantly contradictory statements/feats and it is literally impossible to make a coherent PL list because you can't make one without contradicting statements several times.

Again, all of those things don't mean much, because they could all have been retconned anyway as the story went forward just like they did with the whole "ssj god absorbed thing".
I mean look at the manga, it retconned all of BOG and RoF power scailing and orginal but yet is based off those two movies.
Explaining how vegeta got as strong as goku is pointles, that information didn't enhance anything for future parts of the story. All we needed to see is vegeta trained with whis, bam. Just like in RoF movie. And "make no sense", lol the anime of super literally makes little sense so... not a big deal.

Yeah I think supers anime may be better then GT because I think I remeber ssj4 having a beam struggle with Kuririn... OH WAIT... LOOOOL. GT power scailing > supers anime.

[1345521]

Okay, I found GT more memorable and way more interesting then supers' anime. Its art SOLOS supers anime. SSJ4 is the best transformation in the franchise and has an ending thats a top 5 episode in history of dragon ball. Super literally has nothing but last-rankings (IMO) in multiple subject areas, its animation on ep 130 and 131 were awesome, but everything else apart from that episode was garbage, I couldn't even enjoy it. Sorry, but GT is far better then super in my opinion. Agree to dissagree.

And I certainly agree that it's your opinion, but if you just come with the mindset of "I like what I like regardless of other people so agree to disagree" right you can see how that's kind of unfit for a debate, right? We're all arguing based on our own standards here, but that does constitute, y'know, actually arguing.

I don't get where you are going, GT is far better then super, in my opinon. SSJ4 and the ending basically solo over half of supers anime alone. Nuff said. And I couldn't give much of a sqaut if people dissagree or not. Not here to "argue".

[Shaddy]

I don't get where you are going, GT is far better then super, in my opinon. SSJ4 and the ending basically solo over half of supers anime alone. Nuff said. And I couldn't give much of a sqaut if people dissagree or not. Not here to "argue".

Well actually not enough said. You enter a thread exclusively based in debating and contrasting whether GT and Super was a better anime, and you refuse to actually debate things or entertain that someone would have a different "opinon"? If you're just gonna ignore what I'm saying, why reply at all? Why are you here?

[Saturnine]

Yeah, you seem like you just want to throw around your conviction that GT's supposedly superior, even though to put it mildly, the ground here is not so fertile

[Nokra]

Okay, I found GT more memorable and way more interesting then supers' anime. Its art SOLOS supers anime. SSJ4 is the best transformation in the franchise and has an ending thats a top 5 episode in history of dragon ball. Super literally has nothing but last-rankings (IMO) in multiple subject areas, its animation on ep 130 and 131 were awesome, but everything else apart from that episode was garbage, I couldn't even enjoy it. Sorry, but GT is far better then super in my opinion. Agree to dissagree.

And I certainly agree that it's your opinion, but if you just come with the mindset of "I like what I like regardless of other people so agree to disagree" right you can see how that's kind of unfit for a debate, right? We're all arguing based on our own standards here, but that does constitute, y'know, actually arguing.

I don't get where you are going, GT is far better then super, in my opinon. SSJ4 and the ending basically solo over half of supers anime alone. Nuff said. And I couldn't give much of a sqaut if people dissagree or not. Not here to "argue".

The fact that gt ended after just 64 episodes and super is still ongoing should tell you something about which series people were more invested in. Also gt is really irrelevant to the actual continuity of the overall series and no one really cares about anything in it besides ss4. How does two things from an overall subpar show make it better than another show that has way more than just two things about it that people can point out they like?

[SupremeKai25]

Honestly, we really should stop saying that Goku Black's concept is cheap. I myself am to blame for this.

Goku Black is NOT Evil Goku. Goku Black is an EVIL KAI WHO STOLE GOKU'S BODY. It's different. It would be like saying that Cell is just an Evil Goku because he has Goku's cells. Goku Black would be an Evil Goku if the writers had created him before coming up with the idea of Zamasu. But this is clearly not the case, the writers always intended for Black to be an Evil Kai (very original concept), not an Evil Goku.

What we should say, is that Goku Black's design is inspired by an Evil Goku. That's certain. But character design =/= character concept.

The fact that gt ended after just 64 episodes and super is still ongoing should tell you something about which series people were more invested in.

Also the fact that Super's final two episodes were streamed in the squares of several major cities throughout the world. I don't remember this being done for episodes 63-64 of GT?

[Grimlock]

tournaments are a staple in the Dragon Ball franchise and this introduced tournaments on a Universal scale with totally new formats for tournaments.

I could watch all the previous tournaments pretending all the animals and other beings who don't look like humans who faced Goku and others were from another Universe and I wouldn't miss anything. That just goes on to show how "but hey, it's a multiversal tournament this time" was a big whatever.

Besides, the retellings were completely necessary

I don't see how changing things just for the sake of changing, removing lines, creating another continuity and thus generating choices that the viewers have to make were "completely necessary".

[Timetraveller]

And I certainly agree that it's your opinion, but if you just come with the mindset of "I like what I like regardless of other people so agree to disagree" right you can see how that's kind of unfit for a debate, right? We're all arguing based on our own standards here, but that does constitute, y'know, actually arguing.

I don't get where you are going, GT is far better then super, in my opinon. SSJ4 and the ending basically solo over half of supers anime alone. Nuff said. And I couldn't give much of a sqaut if people dissagree or not. Not here to "argue".

The fact that gt ended after just 64 episodes and super is still ongoing should tell you something about which series people were more invested in. Also gt is really irrelevant to the actual continuity of the overall series and no one really cares about anything in it besides ss4. How does two things from an overall subpar show make it better than another show that has way more than just two things about it that people can point out they like?

Again, series length is more an indicator of how much money the show's making not a direct measure of quality. So if you're arguing that Dragonball Super makes money, then sure, I'll agree with that. The franchise is probably making more money now than it ever has. You know what other shows are still running? The Simpsons.

The next part was completely subjective to you so there's no need to debate that.

[PFM18]

I don't get where you are going, GT is far better then super, in my opinon. SSJ4 and the ending basically solo over half of supers anime alone. Nuff said. And I couldn't give much of a sqaut if people dissagree or not. Not here to "argue".

The fact that gt ended after just 64 episodes and super is still ongoing should tell you something about which series people were more invested in. Also gt is really irrelevant to the actual continuity of the overall series and no one really cares about anything in it besides ss4. How does two things from an overall subpar show make it better than another show that has way more than just two things about it that people can point out they like?

Again, series length is more an indicator of how much money the show's making not a direct measure of quality. So if you're arguing that Dragonball Super makes money, then sure, I'll agree with that. The franchise is probably making more money now than it ever has. You know what other shows are still running? The Simpsons.

The next part was completely subjective to you so there's no need to debate that.

You don't think the show makes more if it is better? The popularity is to some extent a reflection of popularity. It isn't going to be popular if it is crap. In GT's case, it wasn't popular because it was a big pile of crap. Therefore, it didn't make money and didn't continue.

tournaments are a staple in the Dragon Ball franchise and this introduced tournaments on a Universal scale with totally new formats for tournaments.

I could watch all the previous tournaments pretending all the animals and other beings who don't look like humans who faced Goku and others were from another Universe and I wouldn't miss anything. That just goes on to show how "but hey, it's a multiversal tournament this time" was a big whatever.

Besides, the retellings were completely necessary

I don't see how changing things just for the sake of changing, removing lines, creating another continuity and thus generating choices that the viewers have to make were "completely necessary".

Ok that's great that you're good at pretending. But still, tournaments don't have an inherently negative criticism. "Super has 2 tournaments" is not criticism.

If you think the retellings exist just for the sake of changing, and "generating choices the viewers have to make"(as though that's a big negativea? It isn't accurate anyway) Then you probably should rewatch them because you have no clue what you are talking about.