Which did it better, GT or Super?

[sunsetshimmer]

DBS can't beat GT because it doesn't have anything in it beside fanservice.
There wasn't a single original arc in it.
The only one that tried to be new was Zamasu arc and it completely failed being full of fanservice and ripofs anyway.
Other than that, what DBS have? Movie retellings? Tournaments? Awesome.

GT has Baby arc and Shadow Dragons arc, both very original

Also, GT didn't have to advertise itselft by bringing back old characters and giving them asspull boosts to keep people watching it.
People where hyped for Zamasu and Universe Tournament arcs because Trunks and Android 17 were meant to play major role in it.

In GT, everyone was older and they made Pan a main character. Now imagine DBS taking that risk. Good luck.
DBS couldn't even make people grow up. It only used the old and well-known characters and events.
Goten and Trunks didn't change since Buu saga despite late DBS taking place 6 years after it.
No one changed at all. Entire U7 team consisted of the same old characters. They could introduce a ONE new character.

DBS could easily be a dream and nothing would've changed in story beside characters not having new forms.

[Dbzk1999]

Gonna have to laugh at the Baby arc being original. Tuffle wants revenge on remaining saiyans for the destruction of their race? Plan to eradicate the saiyans. Shadow Dragons is understandable, baby arc is not.

[Potara-Warrior96]

Gonna have to laugh at the Baby arc being original. Tuffle wants revenge on remaining saiyans for the destruction of their race? Plan to eradicate the saiyans. Shadow Dragons is understandable, baby arc is not.

While it true both Baby and Hatchiyak did have the same goal Baby accomplished much more than Hatchiyak ever. Making him a much more memorable villain imho.

[Cetra]

Baby and Lycee are so different, Baby has even more in common with Cell.

[Dbzk1999]

This is specifically about originality though, would anybody say, with a straight face, that the baby arc was an original idea to dragon ball?

[PFM18]

This is specifically about originality though, would anybody say, with a straight face, that the baby arc was an original idea to dragon ball?

No but it was by far the best arc that GT had. Yes, strictly from an originality point of view it isnt extremely original. But it is the best Gt has to offer. Still nothing particularly amazing but that just speaks to the quality of Gt.

[sintzu]

In GT, they made Pan a main character. Now imagine DBS taking that risk. Good luck.

Thanks to them doing that and other things GT was cancelled and the franchise was dead for 5 years. That's not counting how long we had to wait for actual new content.

[Potara-Warrior96]

In GT, they made Pan a main character. Now imagine DBS taking that risk. Good luck.

Thanks to them doing that and other things GT was cancelled and the franchise was dead for 5 years. That's not counting how long we had to wait for actual new content.

Wasn't that kind of Sunsteshimmers point?

[Cetra]

In GT, they made Pan a main character. Now imagine DBS taking that risk. Good luck.

Thanks to them doing that and other things GT was cancelled and the franchise was dead for 5 years. That's not counting how long we had to wait for actual new content.

I low how you still say that the franchise was dead for 5 years from then on when its flat out wrong and I told you that this was the time the manga went overseas to Germany and all. If anything Dragon Ball was distributed a lot at that time.

[Naelysucker]

The Highest of highs of Super are better than the Highs of Z. think about that.

ToP is the second greatest arc next to Namek arc.

Thats extremely debatable

I might even say thats extremely funny.

[Timetraveller]

This is specifically about originality though, would anybody say, with a straight face, that the baby arc was an original idea to dragon ball?

No but it was by far the best arc that GT had. Yes, strictly from an originality point of view it isnt extremely original. But it is the best Gt has to offer. Still nothing particularly amazing but that just speaks to the quality of Gt.

I wouldn't claim Baby to be original. I thought it was brilliant for its execution more than anything else. It took the basic concepts from a non-canon special that no one watched and built on them, developing it into a complete arc. The Tuffles, the Saiyans history of aggression, their Oozaru transformation, That's what GT excelled at, building on plot points that were established in previous material, like they did with Super 17 and the Shadow Dragons.

Considering it gave us one of the most popular, if not THE most popular, transformations in the show and one of the best executed villains, the Baby arc does speak to the quality of GT.

[sunsetshimmer]

In GT, they made Pan a main character. Now imagine DBS taking that risk. Good luck.

Thanks to them doing that and other things GT was cancelled and the franchise was dead for 5 years. That's not counting how long we had to wait for actual new content.

GT wasn't cancelled. It was extended. That's a difference.
GT was meant to end at Baby saga (40 episodes). That's why "A Hero's Legacy" was made and aired during Baby saga, not after Shadow Dragons arc like it would be if GT was planned to have 64 episodes.

And how was franchise dead? DB manga ended long time before that. If GT wasn't made, it would be dead for 2 more years then. Why would it be dead because of GT's existence? If GT wasn't made then we would have new series sooner than in 2015? Lol right.

Besides, no matter how much it failed and how many issues GT had, they at least tried. Super didn't even try. And that's what i respect.
Sure, DBS being a midquel was a bit limited, so they couldn't for example kill Piccolo or Buu for good (like GT did), but it doesn't mean they couldn't make new ideas and introduce new protagonists to Z-team. That tournament could easily include 1 or 2 new characters instead of Frieza and Android 17 (despite 17 being the best part about this arc). If such tournament was made in GT, they could easily add Ledgic. They could somehow bring Nuova as well. And while Pan and Uub came from Z, they had some spotlight in GT making them fresh characters and entire cast was more fresh as well. There is simply no one new in DBS and old characters like Goten or Trunks didn't even change. DBS was too afraid of changes. We already had teen Trunks design from "History of Trunks". They could easily use it and make new design for Goten.

[PFM18]

In GT, they made Pan a main character. Now imagine DBS taking that risk. Good luck.

Thanks to them doing that and other things GT was cancelled and the franchise was dead for 5 years. That's not counting how long we had to wait for actual new content.

GT wasn't cancelled. It was extended. That's a difference.
GT was meant to end at Baby saga (40 episodes). That's why "A Hero's Legacy" was made and aired during Baby saga, not after Shadow Dragons arc like it would be if GT was planned to have 64 episodes.

And how was franchise dead? DB manga ended long time before that. If GT wasn't made, it would be dead for 2 more years then. Why would it be dead because of GT's existence? If GT wasn't made then we would have new series sooner than in 2015? Lol right.

Besides, no matter how much it failed and how many issues GT had, they at least tried. Super didn't even try. And that's what i respect.
Sure, DBS being a midquel was a bit limited, so they couldn't for example kill Piccolo or Buu for good (like GT did), but it doesn't mean they couldn't make new ideas and introduce new protagonists to Z-team. That tournament could easily include 1 or 2 new characters instead of Frieza and Android 17 (despite 17 being the best part about this arc). If such tournament was made in GT, they could easily add Ledgic. They could somehow bring Nuova as well. And while Pan and Uub came from Z, they had some spotlight in GT making them fresh characters and entire cast was more fresh as well. There is simply no one new in DBS and old characters like Goten or Trunks didn't even change. DBS was too afraid of changes. We already had teen Trunks design from "History of Trunks". They could easily use it and make new design for Goten.

...You are actually saying that Super didn't "make new ideas and introduce new protagonists to Z-team" as though GT did this better? are You serious?

[sunsetshimmer]

...You are actually saying that Super didn't "make new ideas and introduce new protagonists to Z-team" as though GT did this better? are You serious?

And who did Super introduce to main cast? Beerus wasn't the real protagonist and he isn't even from Super, he is from DBZ movie, so i don't count him anyway.

Other than that, entire cast consisted of old characters without any major change that would happen in 6 years since Buu saga, like Goten and Trunks actually growing up a bit.

GT had Pan and Uub + Giru who was completely new character in franchise.
Goten and Trunks were adults and were completely different than they were before. And i'm 100% sure that DBS would try to make GT Trunks a clone of Future Trunks instead of giving him his own personality.
Entire DBS is just like another episode of Buu saga. Or movie based on it. You can't tell anything has changed since then.
Marron didn't change AT ALL either. She is still a small baby despite having 9 years. Yes, she is almost TWICE older than Gohan was on Namek.
It's like Shin-Chan where time flows, years pass by, mother even gets pregnant and give birth to daughter, but Shin is always 5yo.

The only exception would be Gohan and Videl. You can actually see that Gohan does something with his life and Videl is completely different both in look and personality. And while i don't really like what DBS made with her, yeah, they at least tried something, so i won't be a hypocrite and i have to respect that.
(still, her new look and personality came from movies, not DBS directly. Super just expanded it)

[GamerSkull]

In GT, they made Pan a main character. Now imagine DBS taking that risk. Good luck.

Thanks to them doing that and other things GT was cancelled and the franchise was dead for 5 years. That's not counting how long we had to wait for actual new content.

GT wasn't cancelled. It was extended. That's a difference.
GT was meant to end at Baby saga (40 episodes). That's why "A Hero's Legacy" was made and aired during Baby saga, not after Shadow Dragons arc like it would be if GT was planned to have 64 episodes.

And how was franchise dead? DB manga ended long time before that. If GT wasn't made, it would be dead for 2 more years then. Why would it be dead because of GT's existence? If GT wasn't made then we would have new series sooner than in 2015? Lol right.

Besides, no matter how much it failed and how many issues GT had, they at least tried. Super didn't even try. And that's what i respect.
Sure, DBS being a midquel was a bit limited, so they couldn't for example kill Piccolo or Buu for good (like GT did), but it doesn't mean they couldn't make new ideas and introduce new protagonists to Z-team. That tournament could easily include 1 or 2 new characters instead of Frieza and Android 17 (despite 17 being the best part about this arc). If such tournament was made in GT, they could easily add Ledgic. They could somehow bring Nuova as well. And while Pan and Uub came from Z, they had some spotlight in GT making them fresh characters and entire cast was more fresh as well. There is simply no one new in DBS and old characters like Goten or Trunks didn't even change. DBS was too afraid of changes. We already had teen Trunks design from "History of Trunks". They could easily use it and make new design for Goten.

Oh damn. I wasn't aware that "A Hero's Legacy" came out after the Baby arc and not the series. But that probably explains why the flashback at the beginning of the movie is Goku killing Baby and not his attack on the final dragon.

[Torturephile]

...You are actually saying that Super didn't "make new ideas and introduce new protagonists to Z-team" as though GT did this better? are You serious?

And who did Super introduce to main cast? Beerus wasn't the real protagonist and he isn't even from Super, he is from DBZ movie, so i don't count him anyway.

I would argue he has had more time in Super than in the movies, which makes me believe he is more of a Super character than a Z one at this point. He was even given a differing personality at first that they developed towards his movie personality as Super went on, even if the whole personality thing wasn't needed in my opinion.

Other than that, entire cast consisted of old characters without any major change that would happen in 6 years since Buu saga, like Goten and Trunks actually growing up a bit.

OK, but has it been six years since the Buu saga?

GT had Pan and Uub + Giru who was completely new character in franchise.

As far as I can recall, Uub didn't do much in GT asides from his fight against Baby. He may have eliminated someone from the Super 17 saga, but it isn't anything special when even Pan could do it. Giru was useful at times, but was sidelined at times when it was damaged. Pan was annoying at times, in my opinion, and at times would be a load.

Goten and Trunks were adults and were completely different than they were before. And i'm 100% sure that DBS would try to make GT Trunks a clone of Future Trunks instead of giving him his own personality.

The same way they were at the end of Z, but otherwise OK.

[Cetra]

As far as I can recall, Uub didn't do much in GT asides from his fight against Baby. He may have eliminated someone from the Super 17 saga, but it isn't anything special when even Pan could do it.

Oob was quite a support character in GT. People just think everyone who does not get a major kill is trash. He had a solid fight against Baby then contributed to stalling so Goku could power up as SSJ4 by immobilising Baby. During hell invasion he helped and during Dragon invasion he helped just liked the others as well.

[Grimlock]

Oh damn. I wasn't aware that "A Hero's Legacy" came out after the Baby arc and not the series. But that probably explains why the flashback at the beginning of the movie is Goku killing Baby and not his attack on the final dragon.

Dragon Ball GT's TV Special is "in-universely" said to take place one hundred years after Baby saga (AGE 889), not one hundred years after the Shadow Dragons saga too.

OK, but has it been six years since the Buu saga?

Yes. While Majin Buu saga takes place in AGE 774, Universe Survival saga happens in AGE 780.

[Torturephile]

As far as I can recall, Uub didn't do much in GT asides from his fight against Baby. He may have eliminated someone from the Super 17 saga, but it isn't anything special when even Pan could do it.

Oob was quite a support character in GT. People just think everyone who does not get a major kill is trash. He had a solid fight against Baby then contributed to stalling so Goku could power up as SSJ4 by immobilising Baby. During hell invasion he helped and during Dragon invasion he helped just liked the others as well.

I dislike that way of thinking that you mentioned at the beginning of your post, though I always felt that Uub could have done more. I haven't watched GT in over ten years, so my memory of it is fuzzy.

OK, but has it been six years since the Buu saga?

Yes. While Majin Buu saga takes place in AGE 774, Universe Survival saga happens in AGE 780.

Thank you.

[Cetra]

I dislike that way of thinking that you mentioned at the beginning of your post . . .

Which part?