Which did it better, GT or Super?

[Kaiza_Toshiyuki]

I consider Super superior to GT overall by a considerable degree, but I'm not one of those people who think GT had nothing good about it.

This is exactly what I´m trying to say.

[SupremeKai25]

Well, to me and to (apperently) 99% of the fandom that I had came across in other forums Vegeta in Dragon Ball Super had reversed to his pre-battle with Kid Buu self.
He's back to his arrogance and "I'm the Prince of ALL Saiyans" BS (even though there are only 2 citizens to this race with himself included and 5 other cross-breeds) who SOMETIMES doesn't care about his wife (he preferred to train over being in her birthday, REMEMBER? And while she had appeared in his mind while he collapsed after Jiren punched him, all he could say is "DAMMIT Let me sleep some more" and it seemed that his promise to Cabba was more important to him than his own family), sure he was nicer to Future and modern Trunks in terms of fatherhood and even gave up on training before the ToP with Whis due to his wife's pergnancy were nice touch-ups to his character but his shitty writing-wise relationship with Cabba, was felt too forced upon the viewers - AFTERALL They didn't had EVEN a mini-arc of him going to Universe 6 Sadala and fleshing things up with Cabba other than their match at the Champa Arc till the Tournament of Power.

Not all of Super is to blame for that. I've seen many fans on all social medias who firmly believe that Vegeta was great in the Future Trunks arc. For example, he clearly told Zamasu that he was no longer fighting for his own sake, but for Trunks' sake, so that he and his people could have a future. To which Zamasu replied that it was surprisingly very un-saiyan-like of him. Is that not an evolution from the old DBZ Vegeta who just wanted to be the strongest? Later on, Vegeta slapped Zamasu because he was mad that this insolent gencoidal kai abused the body of a saiyan for his own gains and just treated it like a tool. Then, he risked his life to protect Trunks from a devastating attack of Fused Zamasu. I'd say that that trumps anything that Vegeta ever did, or said, in GT. In fact, did Vegeta even have any emotional moment at all in GT? I can't remember.

I don't even like Vegeta at all, in fact I find him obnoxious, but I'll give credit where it's due. I guess that I am just sad that many people around here completely forget about all the good things that Super did, and just treat it like a cheap carbon copy of some garbage fan-fiction.

[ricky84]

How did Vegeta supposedly regress in character in Super? I think he progressed a lot actually, caring about people 'n shit.

Well, to me and to (apperently) 99% of the fandom that I had came across in other forums Vegeta in Dragon Ball Super had reversed to his pre-battle with Kid Buu self.
He's back to his arrogance and "I'm the Prince of ALL Saiyans" BS (even though there are only 2 citizens to this race with himself included and 5 other cross-breeds) who SOMETIMES doesn't care about his wife (he preferred to train over being in her birthday, REMEMBER? And while she had appeared in his mind while he collapsed after Jiren punched him, all he could say is "DAMMIT Let me sleep some more" and it seemed that his promise to Cabba was more important to him than his own family), sure he was nicer to Future and modern Trunks in terms of fatherhood and even gave up on training before the ToP with Whis due to his wife's pergnancy were nice touch-ups to his character but his shitty writing-wise relationship with Cabba, was felt too forced upon the viewers - AFTERALL They didn't had EVEN a mini-arc of him going to Universe 6 Sadala and fleshing things up with Cabba other than their match at the Champa Arc till the Tournament of Power.

Those are some of the dumbest complains I've ever read (and no, you don't speak for 99% of the fandom. Not even close).

Vegeta has shown more care and attention to Bulma in Super than he ever did in Z. Seriously, at least twice per arc we got Vegeta x Bulma themed episode in Super, whereas most of what we got in Z was filler. And the fact that he still choose to go to Bulma's birthday party anyway (despite not enjoying it) shows how much he''s changed over the years, since he's now willing to put his desires aside for others.

Just because he admitted that Goku was better than him doesn't he should randomly morph into humble nice guy with no ambition (only a sperg would actually expect that). That's not natural nor realistic, and that's not how personalities work. That's just as dumb as expecting a killer psychopath to change into pacifistic saint.

And there was nothing forced about his relationship with Cabba. He's the only other full blooded saiyan (besides Goku) he's met in decades, and his personality and appearance reminds him of Tarble (who was mentioned in Super).

[ricky84]

Well, to me and to (apperently) 99% of the fandom that I had came across in other forums Vegeta in Dragon Ball Super had reversed to his pre-battle with Kid Buu self.
He's back to his arrogance and "I'm the Prince of ALL Saiyans" BS (even though there are only 2 citizens to this race with himself included and 5 other cross-breeds) who SOMETIMES doesn't care about his wife (he preferred to train over being in her birthday, REMEMBER? And while she had appeared in his mind while he collapsed after Jiren punched him, all he could say is "DAMMIT Let me sleep some more" and it seemed that his promise to Cabba was more important to him than his own family), sure he was nicer to Future and modern Trunks in terms of fatherhood and even gave up on training before the ToP with Whis due to his wife's pergnancy were nice touch-ups to his character but his shitty writing-wise relationship with Cabba, was felt too forced upon the viewers - AFTERALL They didn't had EVEN a mini-arc of him going to Universe 6 Sadala and fleshing things up with Cabba other than their match at the Champa Arc till the Tournament of Power.

Not all of Super is to blame for that. I've seen many fans on all social medias who firmly believe that Vegeta was great in the Future Trunks arc. For example, he clearly told Zamasu that he was no longer fighting for his own sake, but for Trunks' sake, so that he and his people could have a future. To which Zamasu replied that it was surprisingly very un-saiyan-like of him. Is that not an evolution from the old DBZ Vegeta who just wanted to be the strongest? Later on, Vegeta slapped Zamasu because he was mad that this insolent gencoidal kai abused the body of a saiyan for his own gains and just treated it like a tool. Then, he risked his life to protect Trunks from a devastating attack of Fused Zamasu. I'd say that that trumps anything that Vegeta ever did, or said, in GT. In fact, did Vegeta even have any emotional moment at all in GT? I can't remember.

I don't even like Vegeta at all, in fact I find him obnoxious, but I'll give credit where it's due. I guess that I am just sad that many people around here completely forget about all the good things that Super did, and just treat it like a cheap carbon copy of some garbage fan-fiction.

Its good to see more non-biased folks like yourself here on Kanzenshuu. I don't like Krillin as a character for example but I'm never gonna say he's a shit character or badly written (neither of which are true) just because of that.

[Green_Goblin]

How did Vegeta supposedly regress in character in Super? I think he progressed a lot actually, caring about people 'n shit.

Well, to me and to (apperently) 99% of the fandom that I had came across in other forums Vegeta in Dragon Ball Super had reversed to his pre-battle with Kid Buu self.
He's back to his arrogance and "I'm the Prince of ALL Saiyans" BS (even though there are only 2 citizens to this race with himself included and 5 other cross-breeds) who SOMETIMES doesn't care about his wife (he preferred to train over being in her birthday, REMEMBER? And while she had appeared in his mind while he collapsed after Jiren punched him, all he could say is "DAMMIT Let me sleep some more" and it seemed that his promise to Cabba was more important to him than his own family), sure he was nicer to Future and modern Trunks in terms of fatherhood and even gave up on training before the ToP with Whis due to his wife's pergnancy were nice touch-ups to his character but his shitty writing-wise relationship with Cabba, was felt too forced upon the viewers - AFTERALL They didn't had EVEN a mini-arc of him going to Universe 6 Sadala and fleshing things up with Cabba other than their match at the Champa Arc till the Tournament of Power.

Those are some of the dumbest complains I've ever read (and no, you don't speak for 99% of the fandom. Not even close).

Vegeta has shown more care and attention to Bulma in Super than he ever did in Z. Seriously, at least twice per arc we got Vegeta x Bulma themed episode in Super, whereas most of what we got in Z was filler. And the fact that he still choose to go to Bulma's birthday party anyway (despite not enjoying it) shows how much he''s changed over the years, since he's now willing to put his desires aside for others.

Just because he admitted that Goku was better than him doesn't he should randomly morph into humble nice guy with no ambition (only a sperg would actually expect that). That's not natural nor realistic, and that's not how personalities work. That's just as dumb as expecting a killer psychopath to change into pacifistic saint.

And there was nothing forced about his relationship with Cabba. He's the only other full blooded saiyan (besides Goku) he's met in decades, and his personality and appearance reminds him of Tarble (who was mentioned in Super).

See what I did there? And For the record: Tarble was written out of existence in Super, he was never mentioned in it, just in the Battle of Gods movie (2013).

[Kataphrut]

The problem with Vegeta in Super is he was inconsistent. Sometimes he was written like a natural evolution of his Buu arc self, ie still gruff and competitive, but also attentive to his family and friends, generally less selfish and his relationship with Goku was more bickering best buds. Other times, he was just arrogant one-note pandering. The Tournament of Power was especially bad about this, which made it incongruous when they tried to give him depth near the end.

[Green_Goblin]

Ignoring all the rants that followed my original reply, here is my improved version of it: Well, to me and to (apperently) 99% of the fandom that I had came across in other forums Vegeta in Dragon Ball Super had reversed to his pre-battle with Kid Buu self. He didn't even donated his energy to Goku's Spirit Bomb in the 1 hour special, because of PRIDE! Heck even Frieza realized the stakes and let go of his grudge against the Saiyan who ruined his life and donated his ki in hopes of defeating Jiren.

Sure he had a few gag scenes here and there UNLIKE IN Z, but overall he's back to his arrogance and "I'm the Prince of ALL Saiyans" BS (even though there are only 2 citizens to this race with himself included and 5 other cross-breeds) who SOMETIMES doesn't care about his wife (he preferred to train over being in her birthday, REMEMBER? And while she had appeared in his mind while he collapsed after Jiren punched him, all he could say is "DAMMIT Let me sleep some more" and it seemed that his promise to Cabba was more important to him than his own family), sure he was nicer to Future and modern Trunks in terms of fatherhood and even gave up on training before the ToP with Whis due to his wife's pergnancy were nice touch-ups to his character but his shitty writing-wise relationship with Cabba, was felt too forced upon the viewers - AFTERALL They didn't had EVEN a mini-arc of him going to Universe 6 Sadala and fleshing things up with Cabba other than their match at the Champa Arc till the Tournament of Power.

IMHO GT Vegeta felt like a more authentic version of how he should have acted after admitting Goku was the better fighter out of the two of them: he was laid back and accostumed to Earth, mature, sure he had the gag scenes revolving his mustache, but he felt like a person who learnt his limits and made up with Goku, no stupid arrogance was in his way anymore and who will accept help from non-natural means like the blutz waves machine Bulma made for him to close the gap if he can't reach there on his own and help to save his homeworld. Maybe it's because GT was done right after the Buu Arc.

[ricky84]

The problem with Vegeta in Super is he was inconsistent. Sometimes he was written like a natural evolution of his Buu arc self, ie still gruff and competitive, but also attentive to his family and friends, generally less selfish and his relationship with Goku was more bickering best buds. Other times, he was just arrogant one-note pandering. The Tournament of Power was especially bad about this, which made it incongruous when they tried to give him depth near the end.

He never actually did anything he wouldn't normally do now in the ToP arc. So what are you complaining about?

[ricky84]

Ignoring all the rants that followed my original reply, here is my improved version of it: Well, to me and to (apperently) 99% of the fandom that I had came across in other forums Vegeta in Dragon Ball Super had reversed to his pre-battle with Kid Buu self. He didn't even donated his energy to Goku's Spirit Bomb in the 1 hour special, because of PRIDE! Heck even Frieza realized the stakes and let go of his grudge against the Saiyan who ruined his life and donated his ki in hopes of defeating Jiren.

Sure he had a few gag scenes here and there UNLIKE IN Z, but overall he's back to his arrogance and "I'm the Prince of ALL Saiyans" BS (even though there are only 2 citizens to this race with himself included and 5 other cross-breeds) who SOMETIMES doesn't care about his wife (he preferred to train over being in her birthday, REMEMBER? And while she had appeared in his mind while he collapsed after Jiren punched him, all he could say is "DAMMIT Let me sleep some more" and it seemed that his promise to Cabba was more important to him than his own family), sure he was nicer to Future and modern Trunks in terms of fatherhood and even gave up on training before the ToP with Whis due to his wife's pergnancy were nice touch-ups to his character but his shitty writing-wise relationship with Cabba, was felt too forced upon the viewers - AFTERALL They didn't had EVEN a mini-arc of him going to Universe 6 Sadala and fleshing things up with Cabba other than their match at the Champa Arc till the Tournament of Power.

IMHO GT Vegeta felt like a more authentic version of how he should have acted after admitting Goku was the better fighter out of the two of them: he was laid back and accostumed to Earth, mature, sure he had the gag scenes revolving his mustache, but he felt like a person who learnt his limits and made up with Goku, no stupid arrogance was in his way anymore and who will accept help from non-natural means like the blutz waves machine Bulma made for him to close the gap and help to save his homeworld. Maybe it's because GT was done right after the Buu Arc.

1. The actual reason he didn't give his energy for the spirit bomb was because he knew it wouldn't work (and it was shown to be completely useless). Not "pride". Where did you get that nonsense from?

2. He was still arrogant and still boosted about being the prince of all saiyans in GT also (why wouldn't he? Are you saying he shouldn't be proud of his race?). That's how he naturally is. You sound like those spergish fans who think Vegeta should have turned into some humble nice guy, which is neither possible nor natural.

3. Now you are just nitpicking. Training is Vegeta's favorite activity and he isn't a sociable, yet you keep forgetting that he still choose to take time off from it and still went to Bulma's birthday party anyway (a fact that you keep ignoring out of delusional bias). If he truly regressed he would have told her to fuck off and would have never gone there at all.

4. The ToP made it clear from the start that protecting Bulma/his family was his main objective for the ToP/ There was no indication about him caring more about Cabba than Bulma.

5. No, GT Vegeta didn't "make up" with Goku at all. The main reason he took Bulma's help to turn SSJ4 was to catch up with Goku (he even says this at the end of episode 55 of GT and when he actually transforms in the following episode). He never actually gave up on his rivally with Goku in GT. Cheating to become stronger/catch up is something Vegeta did in the Buu saga too (remember Majin Vegeta?). Even Goku didn't like the way he got SSG in all verisons of the BoG story since it took no effort nor talent, so there's no reason why Vegeta wouldn't feel the same.

There's also this lmao: https://twitter.com/MJxTV/status/1002445514724474881

Compare this to Super where he achieves a unique transformation through pure talent and effort motivated by his need to protect U7 and revive U6, not catch up to Goku (he even says that he didn't care about UI, that he would ascend his own way). That's a much better example of Vegeta moving on and doing his own thing, unlike GT.

6. Again, you gave no reason nor example of why the Vegeta-Cabba thing is forced. It isn't

All you did was ignored all the counter evidence against your first post and dismissed them as "rants" in a biased manner and repeated your views. And no, you don't represent most of the DB fandom. Hell, you don't even represent most Kanzenshuu members. If you look at say, youtube comments and Japanese fan polls, most people seem to satisfied with DBS Vegeta and is still just as popular as ever.

[PFM18]

The problem with Vegeta in Super is he was inconsistent. Sometimes he was written like a natural evolution of his Buu arc self, ie still gruff and competitive, but also attentive to his family and friends, generally less selfish and his relationship with Goku was more bickering best buds. Other times, he was just arrogant one-note pandering. The Tournament of Power was especially bad about this, which made it incongruous when they tried to give him depth near the end.

how is that inconsistent? he can simultaneously be arrogant,cocky and prideful while also being attentive to his family and generally a better guy. In my mind Vegeta was handled flawlessly in DBS. You can't have Vegeta without being arrogant and cocky no matter how much his character has progressed.

[ricky84]

The problem with Vegeta in Super is he was inconsistent. Sometimes he was written like a natural evolution of his Buu arc self, ie still gruff and competitive, but also attentive to his family and friends, generally less selfish and his relationship with Goku was more bickering best buds. Other times, he was just arrogant one-note pandering. The Tournament of Power was especially bad about this, which made it incongruous when they tried to give him depth near the end.

how is that inconsistent? he can simultaneously be arrogant,cocky and prideful while also being attentive to his family and generally a better guy. In my mind Vegeta was handled flawlessly in DBS. You can't have Vegeta without being arrogant and cocky no matter how much his character has progressed.

Just like how you can't have Goku without his battle lust and naivety, there's no Freeza without his psychopathy and there's no Zamasu without his narcissism.

[Green_Goblin]

Ignoring all the rants that followed my original reply, here is my improved version of it: Well, to me and to (apperently) 99% of the fandom that I had came across in other forums Vegeta in Dragon Ball Super had reversed to his pre-battle with Kid Buu self. He didn't even donated his energy to Goku's Spirit Bomb in the 1 hour special, because of PRIDE! Heck even Frieza realized the stakes and let go of his grudge against the Saiyan who ruined his life and donated his ki in hopes of defeating Jiren.

Sure he had a few gag scenes here and there UNLIKE IN Z, but overall he's back to his arrogance and "I'm the Prince of ALL Saiyans" BS (even though there are only 2 citizens to this race with himself included and 5 other cross-breeds) who SOMETIMES doesn't care about his wife (he preferred to train over being in her birthday, REMEMBER? And while she had appeared in his mind while he collapsed after Jiren punched him, all he could say is "DAMMIT Let me sleep some more" and it seemed that his promise to Cabba was more important to him than his own family), sure he was nicer to Future and modern Trunks in terms of fatherhood and even gave up on training before the ToP with Whis due to his wife's pergnancy were nice touch-ups to his character but his shitty writing-wise relationship with Cabba, was felt too forced upon the viewers - AFTERALL They didn't had EVEN a mini-arc of him going to Universe 6 Sadala and fleshing things up with Cabba other than their match at the Champa Arc till the Tournament of Power.

IMHO GT Vegeta felt like a more authentic version of how he should have acted after admitting Goku was the better fighter out of the two of them: he was laid back and accostumed to Earth, mature, sure he had the gag scenes revolving his mustache, but he felt like a person who learnt his limits and made up with Goku, no stupid arrogance was in his way anymore and who will accept help from non-natural means like the blutz waves machine Bulma made for him to close the gap and help to save his homeworld. Maybe it's because GT was done right after the Buu Arc.

1. The actual reason he didn't give his energy for the spirit bomb was because he knew it wouldn't work (and it was shown to be completely useless). Not "pride". Where did you get that nonsense from?

2. He was still arrogant and still boosted about being the prince of all saiyans in GT also (why wouldn't he? Are you saying he shouldn't be proud of his race?). That's how he naturally is. You sound like those spergish fans who think Vegeta should have turned into some humble nice guy, which is neither possible nor natural.

3. Now you are just nitpicking. Training is Vegeta's favorite activity and he isn't a sociable, yet you keep forgetting that he still choose to take time off from it and still went to Bulma's birthday party anyway (a fact that you keep ignoring out of delusional bias). If he truly regressed he would have told her to fuck off and would have never gone there at all.

4. The ToP made it clear from the start that protecting Bulma/his family was his main objective for the ToP/ There was no indication about him caring more about Cabba than Bulma.

5. No, GT Vegeta didn't "make up" with Goku at all. The main reason he took Bulma's help to turn SSJ4 was to catch up with Goku (he even says this at the end of episode 55 of GT and when he actually transforms in the following episode). He never actually gave up on his rivally with Goku in GT. Cheating to become stronger/catch up is something Vegeta did in the Buu saga too (remember Majin Vegeta?). Even Goku didn't like the way he got SSG in all verisons of the BoG story since it took no effort nor talent, so there's no reason why Vegeta wouldn't feel the same.

There's also this lmao: https://twitter.com/MJxTV/status/1002445514724474881

Compare this to Super where he achieves a unique transformation through pure talent and effort motivated by his need to protect U7 and revive U6, not catch up to Goku (he even says that he didn't care about UI, that he would ascend his own way). That's a much better example of Vegeta moving on and doing his own thing, unlike GT.

6. Again, you gave no reason nor example of why the Vegeta-Cabba thing is forced. It isn't

All you did was ignored all the counter evidence against your first post and dismissed them as "rants" in a biased manner and repeated your views. And no, you don't represent most of the DB fandom. Hell, you don't even represent most Kanzenshuu members. If you look at say, youtube comments and Japanese fan polls, most people seem to satisfied with DBS Vegeta and is still just as popular as ever.

Stop crying and busting things in ur room, ricky, here let me give u a napkin. Now, after I hope u calmed down - I guess you never heard this before BUT People are entitled to think different than u, once u will accept this, maybe we could be friends. After being a fan of this franchise for 17 years I have more sympathy towards GT than Super. u can post here all u want, it won't change that.

[Rakurai]

Not all of Super is to blame for that. I've seen many fans on all social medias who firmly believe that Vegeta was great in the Future Trunks arc. For example, he clearly told Zamasu that he was no longer fighting for his own sake, but for Trunks' sake, so that he and his people could have a future. To which Zamasu replied that it was surprisingly very un-saiyan-like of him. Is that not an evolution from the old DBZ Vegeta who just wanted to be the strongest? Later on, Vegeta slapped Zamasu because he was mad that this insolent gencoidal kai abused the body of a saiyan for his own gains and just treated it like a tool. Then, he risked his life to protect Trunks from a devastating attack of Fused Zamasu. I'd say that that trumps anything that Vegeta ever did, or said, in GT. In fact, did Vegeta even have any emotional moment at all in GT? I can't remember.

I don't even like Vegeta at all, in fact I find him obnoxious, but I'll give credit where it's due. I guess that I am just sad that many people around here completely forget about all the good things that Super did, and just treat it like a cheap carbon copy of some garbage fan-fiction.

Of course GT Vegeta had emotional moments.

He expressed his frustration to Bulma at the fact that he couldn't do anything against Omega Shenron and failed to protect his second home, Earth.

He told Gohan, Goten, and Trunks to take the others and escape in the spaceship, and train until they become strong enough to defeat Omega Shenron one day while Vegeta distracts him.

That is better than anything than any "development" moment DBS Vegeta had imo.

As for the topic of Vegeta: I personally think GT handled Vegeta pretty well, where his last on-screen developments where set strictly after the end of Buu saga and EoZ. Of course he would seem like the more mature Vegeta than DBS Vegeta, because that is how he was portrayed to be.

In DBS, he has that family side to him but also that huge competitive streak, which doesn't seem like it mellowed out over the years. That was a HUGE part of Vegeta's human evolution and peace with Goku.

[SupremeKai25]

That is better than anything than any "development" moment DBS Vegeta had imo.

So he lamented his uselessness in front of the overwhelmingly powerful villain Omega Shenron. I much prefer what Super did with him, since he didn't just give a sensational speech, he also took matters into his own hands, by kicking Zamasu's butt, utterly disrespecting and humiliating him, and teaching him a lesson in humility. And if that scene doesn't prove that Vegeta deeply respects Goku as a friend, and is proud of his saiyan heritage, I don't know what does.

At the end of the day, actions speak much louder than empty words, and Super Vegeta definitely did not remain silent.

[ricky84]

Not all of Super is to blame for that. I've seen many fans on all social medias who firmly believe that Vegeta was great in the Future Trunks arc. For example, he clearly told Zamasu that he was no longer fighting for his own sake, but for Trunks' sake, so that he and his people could have a future. To which Zamasu replied that it was surprisingly very un-saiyan-like of him. Is that not an evolution from the old DBZ Vegeta who just wanted to be the strongest? Later on, Vegeta slapped Zamasu because he was mad that this insolent gencoidal kai abused the body of a saiyan for his own gains and just treated it like a tool. Then, he risked his life to protect Trunks from a devastating attack of Fused Zamasu. I'd say that that trumps anything that Vegeta ever did, or said, in GT. In fact, did Vegeta even have any emotional moment at all in GT? I can't remember.

I don't even like Vegeta at all, in fact I find him obnoxious, but I'll give credit where it's due. I guess that I am just sad that many people around here completely forget about all the good things that Super did, and just treat it like a cheap carbon copy of some garbage fan-fiction.

Of course GT Vegeta had emotional moments.

He expressed his frustration to Bulma at the fact that he couldn't do anything against Omega Shenron and failed to protect his second home, Earth.

He told Gohan, Goten, and Trunks to take the others and escape in the spaceship, and train until they become strong enough to defeat Omega Shenron one day while Vegeta distracts him.

That is better than anything than any "development" moment DBS Vegeta had imo.

As for the topic of Vegeta: I personally think GT handled Vegeta pretty well, where his last on-screen developments where set strictly after the end of Buu saga and EoZ. Of course he would seem like the more mature Vegeta than DBS Vegeta, because that is how he was portrayed to be.

In DBS, he has that family side to him but also that huge competitive streak, which doesn't seem like it mellowed out over the years. That was a HUGE part of Vegeta's human evolution and peace with Goku.

He went out of his way to turn SSJ4 just to catch up to Goku. That doesn't sound like someone who mellowed out an moved on at all.

[ricky84]

Ignoring all the rants that followed my original reply, here is my improved version of it: Well, to me and to (apperently) 99% of the fandom that I had came across in other forums Vegeta in Dragon Ball Super had reversed to his pre-battle with Kid Buu self. He didn't even donated his energy to Goku's Spirit Bomb in the 1 hour special, because of PRIDE! Heck even Frieza realized the stakes and let go of his grudge against the Saiyan who ruined his life and donated his ki in hopes of defeating Jiren.

Sure he had a few gag scenes here and there UNLIKE IN Z, but overall he's back to his arrogance and "I'm the Prince of ALL Saiyans" BS (even though there are only 2 citizens to this race with himself included and 5 other cross-breeds) who SOMETIMES doesn't care about his wife (he preferred to train over being in her birthday, REMEMBER? And while she had appeared in his mind while he collapsed after Jiren punched him, all he could say is "DAMMIT Let me sleep some more" and it seemed that his promise to Cabba was more important to him than his own family), sure he was nicer to Future and modern Trunks in terms of fatherhood and even gave up on training before the ToP with Whis due to his wife's pergnancy were nice touch-ups to his character but his shitty writing-wise relationship with Cabba, was felt too forced upon the viewers - AFTERALL They didn't had EVEN a mini-arc of him going to Universe 6 Sadala and fleshing things up with Cabba other than their match at the Champa Arc till the Tournament of Power.

IMHO GT Vegeta felt like a more authentic version of how he should have acted after admitting Goku was the better fighter out of the two of them: he was laid back and accostumed to Earth, mature, sure he had the gag scenes revolving his mustache, but he felt like a person who learnt his limits and made up with Goku, no stupid arrogance was in his way anymore and who will accept help from non-natural means like the blutz waves machine Bulma made for him to close the gap and help to save his homeworld. Maybe it's because GT was done right after the Buu Arc.

1. The actual reason he didn't give his energy for the spirit bomb was because he knew it wouldn't work (and it was shown to be completely useless). Not "pride". Where did you get that nonsense from?

2. He was still arrogant and still boosted about being the prince of all saiyans in GT also (why wouldn't he? Are you saying he shouldn't be proud of his race?). That's how he naturally is. You sound like those spergish fans who think Vegeta should have turned into some humble nice guy, which is neither possible nor natural.

3. Now you are just nitpicking. Training is Vegeta's favorite activity and he isn't a sociable, yet you keep forgetting that he still choose to take time off from it and still went to Bulma's birthday party anyway (a fact that you keep ignoring out of delusional bias). If he truly regressed he would have told her to fuck off and would have never gone there at all.

4. The ToP made it clear from the start that protecting Bulma/his family was his main objective for the ToP/ There was no indication about him caring more about Cabba than Bulma.

5. No, GT Vegeta didn't "make up" with Goku at all. The main reason he took Bulma's help to turn SSJ4 was to catch up with Goku (he even says this at the end of episode 55 of GT and when he actually transforms in the following episode). He never actually gave up on his rivally with Goku in GT. Cheating to become stronger/catch up is something Vegeta did in the Buu saga too (remember Majin Vegeta?). Even Goku didn't like the way he got SSG in all verisons of the BoG story since it took no effort nor talent, so there's no reason why Vegeta wouldn't feel the same.

There's also this lmao: https://twitter.com/MJxTV/status/1002445514724474881

Compare this to Super where he achieves a unique transformation through pure talent and effort motivated by his need to protect U7 and revive U6, not catch up to Goku (he even says that he didn't care about UI, that he would ascend his own way). That's a much better example of Vegeta moving on and doing his own thing, unlike GT.

6. Again, you gave no reason nor example of why the Vegeta-Cabba thing is forced. It isn't

All you did was ignored all the counter evidence against your first post and dismissed them as "rants" in a biased manner and repeated your views. And no, you don't represent most of the DB fandom. Hell, you don't even represent most Kanzenshuu members. If you look at say, youtube comments and Japanese fan polls, most people seem to satisfied with DBS Vegeta and is still just as popular as ever.

Stop crying and busting things in ur room, ricky, here let me give u a napkin. Now, after I hope u calmed down - I guess you never heard this before BUT People are entitled to think different than u, once u will accept this, maybe we could be friends. After being a fan of this franchise for 17 years I have more sympathy towards GT than Super. u can post here all u want, it won't change that.

Dismissing other people's opinions as "whining" without logic. Shows how immature you are .

[Green_Goblin]

1. The actual reason he didn't give his energy for the spirit bomb was because he knew it wouldn't work (and it was shown to be completely useless). Not "pride". Where did you get that nonsense from?

2. He was still arrogant and still boosted about being the prince of all saiyans in GT also (why wouldn't he? Are you saying he shouldn't be proud of his race?). That's how he naturally is. You sound like those spergish fans who think Vegeta should have turned into some humble nice guy, which is neither possible nor natural.

3. Now you are just nitpicking. Training is Vegeta's favorite activity and he isn't a sociable, yet you keep forgetting that he still choose to take time off from it and still went to Bulma's birthday party anyway (a fact that you keep ignoring out of delusional bias). If he truly regressed he would have told her to fuck off and would have never gone there at all.

4. The ToP made it clear from the start that protecting Bulma/his family was his main objective for the ToP/ There was no indication about him caring more about Cabba than Bulma.

5. No, GT Vegeta didn't "make up" with Goku at all. The main reason he took Bulma's help to turn SSJ4 was to catch up with Goku (he even says this at the end of episode 55 of GT and when he actually transforms in the following episode). He never actually gave up on his rivally with Goku in GT. Cheating to become stronger/catch up is something Vegeta did in the Buu saga too (remember Majin Vegeta?). Even Goku didn't like the way he got SSG in all verisons of the BoG story since it took no effort nor talent, so there's no reason why Vegeta wouldn't feel the same.

There's also this lmao: https://twitter.com/MJxTV/status/1002445514724474881

Compare this to Super where he achieves a unique transformation through pure talent and effort motivated by his need to protect U7 and revive U6, not catch up to Goku (he even says that he didn't care about UI, that he would ascend his own way). That's a much better example of Vegeta moving on and doing his own thing, unlike GT.

6. Again, you gave no reason nor example of why the Vegeta-Cabba thing is forced. It isn't

All you did was ignored all the counter evidence against your first post and dismissed them as "rants" in a biased manner and repeated your views. And no, you don't represent most of the DB fandom. Hell, you don't even represent most Kanzenshuu members. If you look at say, youtube comments and Japanese fan polls, most people seem to satisfied with DBS Vegeta and is still just as popular as ever.

Stop crying and busting things in ur room, ricky, here let me give u a napkin. Now, after I hope u calmed down - I guess you never heard this before BUT People are entitled to think different than u, once u will accept this, maybe we could be friends. After being a fan of this franchise for 17 years I have more sympathy towards GT than Super. u can post here all u want, it won't change that.

Dismissing other people's opinions as "whining" without logic. Shows how immature you are .

Or that I just happens to have a life and a desire to travel on my days of rest rather than spend my time typing things that the other side doesn't want to hear.

[OhHiRenan]

How did Vegeta supposedly regress in character in Super? I think he progressed a lot actually, caring about people 'n shit.

He regresses by, once again, obsessing over his rivalry with Goku despite coming to terms with it at the end of the Boo arc. He also showed he cared by the end of the original series. His characterization is derivative of a much better series with nowhere near as much poignancy.

[Dbzk1999]

How did Vegeta supposedly regress in character in Super? I think he progressed a lot actually, caring about people 'n shit.

He regresses by, once again, obsessing over his rivalry with Goku despite coming to terms with it at the end of the Boo arc. He also showed he cared by the end of the original series. His characterization is derivative of a much better series with nowhere near as much poignancy.

Then he might as well have regressed at the end of actual series, considering the kanzenban ending shows that he still wanted to surpass goku

[PFM18]

How did Vegeta supposedly regress in character in Super? I think he progressed a lot actually, caring about people 'n shit.

He regresses by, once again, obsessing over his rivalry with Goku despite coming to terms with it at the end of the Boo arc. He also showed he cared by the end of the original series. His characterization is derivative of a much better series with nowhere near as much poignancy.

Then he might as well have regressed at the end of actual series, considering the kanzenban ending shows that he still wanted to surpass goku

Lol, fair point. EoZ Vegeta also is adamant about surpassing Goku.

I never understood this criticism of Super Vegeta's characterization it is 100% consistent