Super has done a lot of things better than DBZ

[Doctor.]

1. Expanded Universes

This has been terrible world-building so far. The concept itself? It's fine. In fact, it's more than fine: it's great. The opportunity to showcase a variety of different universes, with different characters, different lore, different locations, different energy sources, different physics if you get creative with it. The way it actually has been presented so far? Terrible. We haven't actually explored any of them. Rather, we've already limited the scope of the multiverse by not only placing a number on the number of universes, but by also introducing all of their strongest beings at once. The creatures in these universes, along with their Gods, could have presented Goku & co with a huge, difficult ladder to climb, but it turns out Goku was already stronger than 99% of them regardless and surpassed the Gods in a few arcs. The universes also fall into the same pitfall that a lot of sci-fi series fall into: that is, you present us with a planet that could have been scaled down to a city or a country and nothing changes in the story because the planet is lacking in culture, language, variety and overall depth. Only this problem is on a larger scale, as multiple universes are stripped down to one or two characteristics (U2 and U3 are extreme cases of this, with seemingly their only traits being "beauty" and "technology"). Further, the Gods of Destruction lose all the mysticism that made Beerus' introduction into the cosmos so interesting when you already present a tournament where seemingly the mortals all already know and have contact with their respective GoDs. Though, I admit, this is a minor complaint. Still, the lack of any kind of depth to these universes and the characters that come from them make this expansion in the lore almost useless.

2. More In-Depth Fighting Strategy

I would give you this, because I agreed with you a while back, but I thought some more about it, and no, that's not really the case. First off, DB and Z both have some kind of basic strategy and tactics being implemented into the fights. This is undeniable. Second, while DBS may be more creative in regards to the abilities and the depth of the strategies presented, it doesn't really change the formula at all, because power still trumps everything else 90% of the time. Remember Toppo's Hakai and how it was hinted at in his episode that they'd need some kind of strategy to get around it? Yeah, it got punched away one episode later.

3. Bigger stakes

I mean, this is just objectively incorrect. We have the ending of the series right in front of us. We know everyone who matters lives. The only characters who serve as exceptions to this are Beerus & Whis, returning characters like Freeza/17/Trunks and any other new characters, who I'd say matter if the series made an effort to make us care about them, but they're dispatched quickly in an episode like we saw in the ToP. Still, it's depressing when compared to the original series when anyone could die at anytime and you never had the certainty they would return regardless of the number of Dragon Balls there were.

4. Black Goku & Zamasu not the typical Z villains

If the only thing positive about them is that they're not "typical", then sure, I'll give this to you. But I'm not exactly sure this makes them any better than the Z villains, considering Zamasu's archetype has been done much better elsewhere in the 20 years between the two series.

5. Callbacks to Dragonball

Pointless callbacks that do nothing more than point out a much cooler event that happened in the original series mean nothing. Callbacks are cool ideas when they're used to demonstrate some kind of contrast between the present situation and the past situation. An example of a good callback is Goku and Vegeta's poses at the end of #131 because Vegeta and Goku are now on equal footing and they're fighting as friends, not as enemies. It's too conservative of an example, but it gets the job done because it actually has some weight to it. But most of the other moments in Super that reference the original series are just pointless homages that you can, in no way, tie to the original scene; so it feels more like the series is trying to piggyback off of the success of the previous series rather than anything else.

6. a lot more funny moments than Z

I'm not exactly sure this is quantifiable. Even so, Z was a lot longer and the Majin Boo arc was mostly comedic, so I'd have a harder time believing this.

7. they take their time to introduce a new villain(If Super comes back)

Not exactly sure what you mean by this. Most Super antagonists are introduced right at the start of the arc. It took Cell and Boo some time to even make their first appearance.

8. UNPREDICTABILITY

Again, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this. How is the series unpredictable when we know most of the characters will live and nothing bad will happen to them? It's certainly not unpredictable when it comes to stakes. Is it unpredictable when it comes to the actual plot developments? Sure, but so were Z's. I'm afraid this seems more like a case of confirmation bias than anything. When you watched Z for the first time, unless someone told you what happened, you wouldn't have predicted a lot of the events that happened. Surely, you wouldn't have predicted Trunks' first appearance, or Cell's, or Kid Boo blowing up the Earth, or Goku being an alien, or Freeza impaling Kuririn, so on and so forth.

9. Goku and Vegeta are the only ones who knows the ssg form and does not the same mistake like Z with everyone knowing the super saiyan form

This is a positive that immediately gets overshadowed by the hugest negative of all, which is that ANY character can jump years of harsh training under severe and special conditions and circumstances to get as strong as Goku and Vegeta because the plot demands them to be, thus making Goku and Vegeta's efforts less meaningful and the SSG/SSB forms less special and impressive as a result.

10. Ultra instinct is more interesting and mysterious than any other form in Z i mean Goku still does not know how to do it

I'll agree to this, even if I feel like Ultra Instinct manifesting itself through not one, but two different transformations is incredibly stupid considering it's just supposed to be a technique that amps your reaction speed, not your entire stats and changes your physical appearance.

11. Super has changed Frieza in a badass again i mean we all know how Z destroyed his character after the Frieza arc easily by Future Trunks

While I agree that the Tournament of Power has done wonders to Freeza, I won't agree that future Trunks destroyed Freeza's characters. The movies and filler may have done it, but nothing 'canon'. On the other hand, I believe that what has tarnished Freeza as a character most of all comes directly from Resurrection 'F', which is a part of the modern Dragon Ball revival and has been adapted in Super.

12. C-17 is so much more enjoyable as character in Super than in Z

I agree, though I feel like #17 has been over-utilized and needlessly shoved into scenes he had no place being in.

13. The black Goku arc was the first arc with no happy ending

I mean, it wasn't really 'happy' but it wasn't a depressing ending either. It was bittersweet. But so was the Cell arc; after all, Goku died.

14. introduced the biggest tournament in Dragonball

Sure, it was the biggest, but considering the large number of structural problems it had, which are objectively verifiable, then I don't really think it was for the best.

[Nickolaidas]

Funny how some people always compare Super with GT because they think Z was a masterpiece or because they are blind of nostalgia


1. Expanded Universes
2. More In-Depth Fighting Strategy
3. Bigger stakes
4. Black Goku & Zamasu not the typical Z villains
5. Callbacks to Dragonball
6. a lot more funny moments than Z
7. they take their time to introduce a new villain(If Super comes back)
8. UNPREDICTABILITY
9. Goku and Vegeta are the only ones who knows the ssg form and does not the same mistake like Z with everyone knowing the super saiyan form
10. Ultra instinct is more interesting and mysterious than any other form in Z i mean Goku still does not know how to do it
11. Super has changed Frieza in a badass again i mean we all know how Z destroyed his character after the Frieza arc easily by Future Trunks
12. C-17 is so much more enjoyable as character in Super than in Z
13. The black Goku arc was the first arc with no happy ending
14. introduced the biggest tournament in Dragonball

I'm not hating i grow up with Dragonball Z and of course i miss some things like the Blood in Super etc

I just began watching Dragon Ball Super from the beginning (I've only seen the Tournament of Power Arc). So far I've seen the first three eps.

I wanted to say that I like the little things the show does with the characters to show us they are real people. One of the most amazing scenes I've seen was Gohan and Videl giving Piccolo a photograph from their wedding. It was very well-done and gives you the impression that these are real people, with real lives. These scenes probably helped newcomers bond with the cast as well. I also liked the fact that Krillin, 18, Tien, Yamcha and others didn't mention Son Goku at ALL, unlike in Z where they had the habit of talking about him every ten seconds as if he was the center of the universe.

Yes, it has animation issues. Yes, the plot in the beginning seems to be dragging because it expands the BoG movie into unneccesary heights. But so far it fits, and I like what I see.

And yes, I also consider it vastly superior to Z. Which shouldn't be surprising, considering Z is two decades old.

[Zephyr]

A lot of the opening points are either untrue, or unclear in how they're supposed to be indicative of "better", but that's already been sufficiently tackled.

That said: it's strange to compare something like Super (its own story) to something like "Raditz to Uub" (a chunk of a larger story). I know the branding window dressing says otherwise, but surely it can't be this obscenely difficult to see past, can it?

[PFM18]

I'm going to respond to this post since people have already addressed the OP

You forgot some other things Super did better than Z imo.

1. Had real motivations behind the villians and had several fights with differences in ideologies involved rather than just the generic "good vs evil" bullshit
Vegeta and Nappa wanted to sell the earth to make a boatload of money. Frieza wanted immortality so he could continue running his empire forever. Cell wanted to test his strength and become the best he could possibly be, abliet in a twisted fashion. I'm not saying they weren't evil, but this definitely wasn't just "derr I'm fighting against goku because I'm evil"
2. Involved the other characters more than in Z.
Really? The only ones that got more involvement were the pilaf gang, if anything super regressed most characters beyond background roles. Trunks and Goten were useless other than the copy vegeta arc, and Trunks for the black arc somewhat. Gohan was useless, and ended up being a colossal let down in the ToP, Buu was a joke, and pretty much every other Z fighter wasn't involved anymore other than the Saiyans. Introducing characters is a whole different story
3. Doesnt make Vegeta a pathetic weakling like in Z.
Vegeta had Goku beat in the Saiyan saga if it weren't for Kaioken, Vegeta was stronger than Goku at the time he was healing in the Frieza arc as he faced off with final form frieza, Vegeta was stronger than Goku with his acquisition of SSJ, and Vegeta had goku beat in the cell arc when he discovered his super vegeta form. The only time he didn't catch up or beat Goku in Z was in the buu arc and the hilarious ass pull of super saiyan 3
4. Actually has arcs ending in losing ultimately making the series feel more natural and less predictable.
The only one that did that was black. Z you had most of the z-fighters dead at the end of the Saiyan Saga, planet namek got blow up in the Frieza saga, goku was dead in the cell saga. The only truly "happy ending" was the buu arc. Sure they didn't "lose", but you could argue they didn't lose at all in Super either. Why? Because U7 still exists, Zamasu is erased, U6 doesn't hold the U7 Earth, Frieza and Beerus didn't blow up Earth.
5. Better animation than Z outside of the first two arcs
Debatable. There was still some extremely lackadaisical animation in almost every other arc, episode 123 is a fine example of that.

The villians in Z were still evil solely for the sake of being evil. Sure they had particular motivations that led them to meet the Z-fighters in the first place like Vegeta wanting the Earth Dragon Balls(not selling Earth that was not their motivation IIRC) and Freeza wanted the Namekian Dragon Balls in order to get immortality and that is why he met the Z-fighters in the first place. But these motivations were never anything more than a plotpoint for them to meet the main cast of characters in the show. They were not their motivation to act evil in the first place. Z never had something like that. Super had Zamasu who was a villian after becoming corrupted because of the failures of the lower beings. It makes sense and has real life similarities. Jiren isn't a villian at all, in fact, he is a hero and that was a very interesting dynamic to conflict with Goku that Z just never had.

Super gave other characters more spotlight. Vegeta, Krillin,Roshi,Tenshinhan and arguably Piccolo had more action/usefulness in Super. They all contributed to fighting for the life of the universe as a whole and they all had contributions. Krillin,Tenshinhan,and Roshi all fought against the Freeza force and Tagoma too. Roshi and Tenshinhan especially did absolutely nothing in DBZ outside of Tien distracting semi-cell and Superbuu. The only characters that got less involvement were Gohan and Goku. Future Trunks took a main role even more so than in the Cell saga. At the very least it is a draw in Z vs Super in this aspect because throughout Z and Super if you were not of Saiyan blood you accomplish very little and that is just how it is in this series.

Yes, I am aware that Vegeta surpassed Goku in a few brief instances but he barely accomplished anything in this time if anything at all. For example, against Freeza he did nothing but serve as a punching bag. Against Goku he was technically "stronger" but he functionally was weaker and that is why he lost even if it was just because of Kaioken. Vegeta never accomplished anything of significance in Z except for maybe defeating Semi-cell but then he immediately screwed it up by letting him reach his Perfect form. He beat some fodder characters here and there but ultimately it culminated in Vegeta being weak. At the end of the series he was the FOURTH strongest behind his own child fusing with another child, Goku and Gohan from his giant power-up for no reason. He was far behind everybody else and only served as a punching bag for the various forms of Majin Buu. Buu saga Vegeta is about as threatening as my neighbor's cat. Cell saga he became strong against Semi-cell which again was his only remotely significant win, and then after that was over and the Cell games happened he went back to being a pathetic weakling with Goku and Gohan being over twice as strong as him without even considering Gohan's new form. Z Vegeta was a pathetic weakling.

In Super, he was actually in lock step with Goku during the entire series being about as strong or stronger during the entire series. In BoG he surpassed Goku with his rage mutation, in ROF he kills Tagoma and dominates Freeza when they fight. In the Universe 6 tournament Vegeta dominates and eliminates the majority of the opposing team after Goku had lost.(albeit because of cheating) In the Zamasu Arc, while Goku Black was the strongest antagonist and main villian, Vegeta defeats him in epic fashion. Then in the Tournament of Power along with 14 eliminations(some were assisted but still) he acquires a new form and defeats a God of Destruction who was arguably the strongest fighter in the arena at the time(Jiren was suppressed at the time) and if he didn't defeat him it would have meant certain erasure. He had more signifcant victories in the Tournament of Power than the entirety of Z. that being 1>0. Being that Vegeta is my favorite character I found Super very enjoyable in this sense because Vegeta got more reasonable treatment.

And no the only arc that left in a loss was not the Black arc. Battle of Gods albeit a retelling had Goku lose against the villain of the arc. The normal cookie-cutter arc would have had him achieve a new form and defeat Beerus, but instead he gets a new form, loses anyway and they manage to befriend the enemy in some capacity. This sets the tone for the new era in which we knew that it wasn't a guarantee that Goku and friends will win and it kept you on your toes.

I have no idea how you could argue the animation was better in Z. Super starting with the U6 arc was far far superior to Z in terms of animation. The tournament of Power completely blows Z out of the water in visuals especially the beauty that was episode 130

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I remember when most people basically predicted the outcome of the Tournament of Power, and everyone especially knew it was obvious Freeza would play a key role in it when they tried to make us forget he wasn't knocked out.

What is the point you are trying to make here? Just because people predicted the ending doesn't mean it can't be or isn't good or negate the the fact many unpredictable things still happened in the tournament itself.

At least nobody predicted 17 beign the one to make the wish

Yeah, though him being one of the last standing participants made his "sacrifice" really stupid, in my opinion.

I agree. That moment will not be nearly as powerful on rewatch.

What difference would it have made if he was wished back generically on Earth with the DB's instead? So why not cut through that BS and spring the surprise he survived.

[SupremeKai25]

3. Bigger stakes

Indeed. Just think of the Future Trunks arc, where all mortal life in the entire Multiverse was at stake.

4. Black Goku & Zamasu not the typical Z villains

So true! Zamasu was a much more complex villain than Frieza, Cell and Buu. The Z villains were evil for the sake of being evil, they wanted to conquer/destroy the world and were one-dimensional, whereas Zamasu was much more elaborate and deep; he saw himself as a paragon of justice, he saw himself as a good guy, and he wanted to create a peaceful and beautiful utopia by cleansing what he viewed as 'evil'. We can see that Zamasu and the Z Fighters had similiar intentions: to restore peace to the world and to defeat evil. But their methods -- and their concept of 'evil' -- were radically different.

Zamasu is also the villain who has killed the most characters in the entire series, having caused the destruction of all mortal life in the Future timeline. Zamasu is also the most successful villain in Dragon Ball, having managed to steal Goku's body, attain immortality, and even merge with the fabric of reality. The fact that it took the King of All himself to descend from the heavens to put an end to the overwhelming power of Zamasu says a lot about this villain.

But just consider the amount of character development and build-up that Zamasu received. We were able to discover extensively his backstory: his life as a promising young Kai, his first fight with Goku, his disgust for mortals, his descent into madness and his ultimate fall from grace that would lead him to become Goku Black. The producers devoted a lot of time, effort and resources in showing us how and why Zamasu became Goku Black, and that was very cool. They didn't just reduce Goku Black's backstory to a 2 min flashback like they did for Jiren.

13. The black Goku arc was the first arc with no happy ending

Fully agreed, you bring up a good point. Unlike in the previous arcs, the Dragon Balls cannot fix the villain's doing.

Goku dying at the end of Cell and everyone dead at the end of the Saiyan arc wasn't eaxctly happy.

13. Not true. The Saiyan Arc ending was most of the main cast being slaughtered and main villain getting away over a selfish decision created by the main character.

You cannot compare that to all life in the Future timeline being utterly erased. Yes, because everyone and everything in the Future timeline has been destroyed as a result of Zamasu's actions (beloved characters like Future Bulma and Future Gohan are all gone), and no Dragon Balls can fix that.

[kn83]

Funny how some people always compare Super with GT because they think Z was a masterpiece or because they are blind of nostalgia


1. Expanded Universes
2. More In-Depth Fighting Strategy
3. Bigger stakes
4. Black Goku & Zamasu not the typical Z villains
5. Callbacks to Dragonball
6. a lot more funny moments than Z
7. they take their time to introduce a new villain(If Super comes back)
8. UNPREDICTABILITY
9. Goku and Vegeta are the only ones who knows the ssg form and does not the same mistake like Z with everyone knowing the super saiyan form
10. Ultra instinct is more interesting and mysterious than any other form in Z i mean Goku still does not know how to do it
11. Super has changed Frieza in a badass again i mean we all know how Z destroyed his character after the Frieza arc easily by Future Trunks
12. C-17 is so much more enjoyable as character in Super than in Z
13. The black Goku arc was the first arc with no happy ending
14. introduced the biggest tournament in Dragonball

I'm not hating i grow up with Dragonball Z and of course i miss some things like the Blood in Super etc

All of this is so true.

Kai=Early DB>Super anime>Z>Super manga>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GT

[Kagari]

I wouldn't say "a lot" but I'm glad they fixed Ultimate Gohan at least.

[kemuri07]

wow.

For a fansite that's supposedly revolves around Dragon Ball, some of you guys are reaaaal quick to throw that franchise under the bus whenever something new and shiney comes along, huh?

All of those things that's listed comes down to one thing execution--and goddamn did DBS have some sloppy execution. On paper, sure some of those things might have made Super, if not better, but at least more interesting than DB or DBZ. But the writing has consistently failed this show from day one.

Okay, let's look at Zamasu, who I feel is one of the worst villains in the entire franchise. Yes, on paper, the idea of a Villain who sees the arrogance and brutality of humanity and not only wishes to stop them, but actually believe he's doing the right thing, is a potentially interesting premise. At least for Dragon Ball. The problem is, as the show depicts it (not your head canon), he's a one-dimensional psychopath, a boring villain who was nowhere near as interesting as Vegeta or Freeza, who had a tendency to launch into boring monologues about "oh how dare you humans stand up to the gods" again, and again, and again, and again, and *snore.* He was a dull character. At the very least, the manga at least tried to make him work, and i thought it largely succeeded.

I get it, I really do get why some of you think DBS is the better show. I mean, you're wrong, but I get it. It's shiny, it's new, therefore it's better. It's old and busted and new Hotness.

Maybe I"m being to harsh, because sometimes, I do get the impression that some of you guys are like 12 years old. Which would make a lot of sense honestly.

[kemuri07]

A lot of the opening points are either untrue, or unclear in how they're supposed to be indicative of "better", but that's already been sufficiently tackled.

That said: it's strange to compare something like Super (its own story) to something like "Raditz to Uub" (a chunk of a larger story). I know the branding window dressing says otherwise, but surely it can't be this obscenely difficult to see past, can it?

Forget it Zephyr--it's KanzenShuu Town.


Some people just can't be helped.

[Master Xar]

wow.

For a fansite that's supposedly revolves around Dragon Ball, some of you guys are reaaaal quick to throw that franchise under the bus whenever something new and shiney comes along, huh?

All of those things that's listed comes down to one thing execution--and goddamn did DBS have some sloppy execution. On paper, sure some of those things might have made Super, if not better, but at least more interesting than DB or DBZ. But the writing has consistently failed this show from day one.

Okay, let's look at Zamasu, who I feel is one of the worst villains in the entire franchise. Yes, on paper, the idea of a Villain who sees the arrogance and brutality of humanity and not only wishes to stop them, but actually believe he's doing the right thing, is a potentially interesting premise. At least for Dragon Ball. The problem is, as the show depicts it (not your head canon), he's a one-dimensional psychopath, a boring villain who was nowhere near as interesting as Vegeta or Freeza, who had a tendency to launch into boring monologues about "oh how dare you humans stand up to the gods" again, and again, and again, and again, and *snore.* He was a dull character. At the very least, the manga at least tried to make him work, and i thought it largely succeeded.

I get it, I really do get why some of you think DBS is the better show. I mean, you're wrong, but I get it. It's shiny, it's new, therefore it's better. It's old and busted and new Hotness.

Maybe I"m being to harsh, because sometimes, I do get the impression that some of you guys are like 12 years old. Which would make a lot of sense honestly.

Yeah how dare people have a different opinion than you, GRRRRR, they are obviously twelve year olds and not adults who have different opinions than you, the old times were the best... in case it went over your head that was sarcasm, but if I were to bet money on it it’d be either the other way around or at bare minimum a good chunk in the thread are older than you.

If Zamasu was your “stereotypical one-dimensional psychopath” then what seperates him from Freeza and Vegeta who up until that point were equally as one dimensional? At least he has a different motivation for his actions than just doing it for shits and giggles, not to mention buried deep within his madness he genuinely cried for the world and his actions, plus he developed into the cold-blooded individual he was, he never started out evil like Freeza, Cell, or Buu.

I can make any of the villains in Z sound equally as generic or repetitive by generalizing their dialogue like you.
Vegeta: “Blah Blah Blah Pride, I’m a Prince! Low Class! Ill crush you when I return!
Freeza: RABL RABL Monkey this! You will die where you stand! Muh nex 4ms
Cell: Yada Yada my perfect form! Brat! Testing out my power! Muh Cell games

See how easy that is? That can literally be worded any way to make something sound boring. If you think Zamasu is boring good for you that’s your opinion. But there is no need to be a dick just because someone likes him better as a villain and you don’t.

[SupremeKai25]

Zamasu is a boring and repetitive villain? Hahaha. Yeah, right. Because Frieza 'I HATE MONKEYS', Cell 'I WANT TO BE PERFECT' and Buu '...' (since he has no personality and is just a rabid animal) are much deeper and more complex villains. Please.

[kemuri07]

It's called execution. And that's largely the difference between DBZ and Super. DBZ is a better executed show than Super in nearly every regard.

my issue with Zamasu is not that "he's not complicated." It's that he's poorly written. He's a dull fucking character, a shadow of villains that the franchise has already done before.

With Freeza--yes he is a one-note villain. THE DIFFERENCE and the reason why Freeza remains an iconic character for nearly 30 years (and why no one is going to give a shit about Zamasu) is because DBZ doesn't merely tell us how awful Freeza is--it shows us. We see how cruel of a character Freeza through his treatment of the Namekians and we're shown how frightenly powerful he is when Vegeta of all people is terrified of him.

That's how you write a good villain.

[Vegeta_Sama]

It's called execution. And that's largely the difference between DBZ and Super. DBZ is a better executed show than Super in nearly every regard.

my issue with Zamasu is not that "he's not complicated." It's that he's poorly written. He's a dull fucking character, a shadow of villains that the franchise has already done before.

With Freeza--yes he is a one-note villain. THE DIFFERENCE and the reason why Freeza remains an iconic character for nearly 30 years (and why no one is going to give a shit about Zamasu) is because DBZ doesn't merely tell us how awful Freeza is--it shows us. We see how cruel of a character Freeza through his treatment of the Namekians and we're shown how frightenly powerful he is when Vegeta of all people is terrified of him.

That's how you write a good villain.

You may not like the execution, but at least you have to admit that he's certainly more than a "shadow" of the previous ones. He's different than every other previous villain that we got.

[PFM18]

It's called execution. And that's largely the difference between DBZ and Super. DBZ is a better executed show than Super in nearly every regard.

my issue with Zamasu is not that "he's not complicated." It's that he's poorly written. He's a dull fucking character, a shadow of villains that the franchise has already done before.

With Freeza--yes he is a one-note villain. THE DIFFERENCE and the reason why Freeza remains an iconic character for nearly 30 years (and why no one is going to give a shit about Zamasu) is because DBZ doesn't merely tell us how awful Freeza is--it shows us. We see how cruel of a character Freeza through his treatment of the Namekians and we're shown how frightenly powerful he is when Vegeta of all people is terrified of him.

That's how you write a good villain.

How do you figure Zamasu is boring? Or that he doesn't do what Freeza does and show us how terrible they are? A villain like Zamasu has never been done before nor anything even similar to it. It is a creative, complex villain that has far more depth to them than any Z villain without a doubt. "Hey I am evil just because" does not make you a better written villain it makes you more boring and one-dimensional.(not that Freeza is boring)

[Cetra]

"That's how you write a good villain". If you only show then its not writing. And DBZ barely had any writing. Dragon Ball Z had barely more writing than old Pokémon games. I don't even think Freeza was all that good because what exactly was shown apart from "uh, uh I am so evil; I am the most evil just for the sake of being evil". When compared to other classic villains Freeza really is very stereotypical. And I do not mean the kind that I find good.

[SupremeKai25]

(and why no one is going to give a shit about Zamasu)

You're comparing a 30 years old villain to a 2 years old villain. Of course Frieza is more popular and iconic than Zamasu. That is not Frieza being a better character than Zamasu, that's just Frieza having had more time to leave his mark on the franchise.

Also, Goku Black (who counts as Zamasu) is one of the most iconic and beloved characters in Super. He is a fan-favourite who in a short amount of time has truly stood out from the rest of the cast. He is one of the most hyped and played characters in various DB games like Fighterz. And even though his arc ended more than one year ago, he is still on the spotlight, with many fanarts, tributes, etc.; and many people want Black to return as a villain in a future arc/movie. He lives on through our countless memes.

it shows us. We see how cruel of a character Freeza through his treatment of the Namekians and we're shown how frightenly powerful he is when Vegeta of all people is terrified of him.

They did the same thing with Zamasu...

- They showed us how sadistic Black is; remember this scene?

[spoiler][/spoiler]

- They showed us how much Black f*cked up Earth, to the point that the sky had permanently turned dark green and the few remaining survivors were forced to live in subways like dogs;
- They showed us the sheer amount of cruelty Black had when he bragged about brutally butchering an alternate's timeline Goku, Chi Chi and Goten (and they even showed that scene with Chi Chi and Goten desperately running away from Black);
- They showed us how utterly hopeless Goku and Trunks where during their first confrontation against Black and Zamasu (and they were crushed in their second confrontation too);
. They showed us how much insane Fused Zamasu was, when he turned into a rabid and disfigured monstruosity driven only by a deep hatred for any mortal thing.


Lastly, this scene...

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Go ahead and tell me that they didn't show us just how powerful and malicious Zamasu was... need I go on?

In fact, Zamasu was the biggest threat that the Z Fighters ever faced. It took the King of All himself to delete the entire Future Multiverse to put an end to his endless power.

And, if you think about it, Zamasu was much worse than Frieza. Frieza was still awful, but he only enslaved planets and destroyed only those that posed a really great threat to him (like Planet Vegeta). Whereas Black completely obliterated many mortal civilizations and ravaged the Multiverse. He was a much grander threat than Frieza. Frieza was only a threat to Unvierse 7, Zamasu was a threat to the entire Multiverse.

Zamasu was also scarier than Frieza. Why? Because Frieza is just sadistic and evil for shits and giggles, he is just a brat. Whereas Zamasu was actually convinced that all that destruction and death were necessary to build a beautiful world. He thought that he was the good guy, that he was doing good deeds by slaughtering entire civilizations. He wasn't just a prick who had fun showing off his destructive powers like Frieza. And that made him much more terrible than Frieza.

[Freeza9000]

THE DIFFERENCE and the reason why Freeza remains an iconic character for nearly 30 years (and why no one is going to give a shit about Zamasu)

That's funny because in just his 20 episode arc that ended nearly 2 years ago, he, especially Goku Black, had received a great ton of recognition and praise from the fanbase. To the point where some even wanted them to come back for future DB projects aside from just the games as SupremeKai25 already pointed out. Sure you may argue that Freeza left a much more significant impact on the franchise, I don't disagree, but Black/Zamasu ain't no Garlic JR.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

You're comparing a 30 years old villain to a 2 years old villain. Of course Frieza is more popular and iconic than Zamasu. That is not Frieza being a better character than Zamasu, that's just Frieza having had more time to leave his mark on the franchise.

No. Freeza has years but Zamasu had quick popularity, but isn't an icon because Freeza was the heavily built up big-bad of the series when it had the most story and character driven aspect of it promoted. Buu had the same 30 year span with the series and nobody really talks about him, hes never promoted and never referenced even in-universe because he never gained any following, as he didn't have anything that was rooted in characterization (besides with Mr. Satan, which is all people walked away with).

Zamasu on the other hand might be popular because he is the only villain of Super. Goku black is also just the evil Goku appeal for him. Where as by comparison within their arcs, Zamasu never really did anything noteworthy as a villain. He did much less than Buu did and all Buu did was kill people. Zamsu's popularity comes from the memes of his emotional rants and speeches through his Japanese voice actor. Thats all I really see him praised for but really had no more weight to the series than the movie villains. He to me is no different than Broly regarding impact on me. Freeza isn't even my favorite villain of the series but thinking about him, his is so rooted in the mythos that his weight is entwined with the plot of the character development. You have no Bardock or Vegeta or a Super Saiyan, without Freeza, despite how little Freeza did himself. Zamasu was just all talk really. Even if that is his appeal (which it is), Super did nothing to make him into a legacy villain.

If Zamasu was your “stereotypical one-dimensional psychopath” then what seperates him from Freeza and Vegeta who up until that point were equally as one dimensional? At least he has a different motivation for his actions than just doing it for shits and giggles, not to mention buried deep within his madness he genuinely cried for the world and his actions, plus he developed into the cold-blooded individual he was, he never started out evil like Freeza, Cell, or Buu.

Having a fleshed out goal is just that. Unlike Buu he had one. If thats the standard people have then the problem is with villains after the Cell arc (excluding Baby) having no real character development to them at all. He was just the only villain with an actual goal since. Freeza and Vegeta weren't one-dimensional though, again having a pretentious personality doesn't give any more substance to a simple goal. Freeza wanted immortality to protect him, and Vegeta wanted to kill Freeza.

See how easy that is? That can literally be worded any way to make something sound boring. If you think Zamasu is boring good for you that’s your opinion. But there is no need to be a dick just because someone likes him better as a villain and you don’t.

How is Zamasu any different from that? All the villains have a simple goal and a whole lot of ego overtop them. Zamasu is no different. He wanted to do a bit more than what the other villains did, but it means nothing if he never achieved anything. If Cell never became perfect, he would be exactly the same as what Zamasu amounted to. Freeza never got immortality but he fought the Super Saiyan he thought he nullified years prior. Buu had no ideology but just wanted to destroy for entertainment and gain power. He did both. Killed all the humans, blew up the Earth, absorbed the strongest characters in the arc. Protected Mr. Satan. Strip Zamasu of his character and he just wants to kill mortals because he hates them. The whole thing about him wanting to make a universe only for the gods, was never enacted upon.

[SupremeKai25]

Zamasu never really did anything noteworthy as a villain.

- He successfully gathered the Super Dragon Balls, massive planet-sized orbs scattered across Universe 6 and Universe 7;
- He successfully stole Goku's body;
- He successfully killed Goku and his family;
- He successfully wished for immortality;
- He successfully destroyed several mortal civilizations across the Multiverse;
- He utterly crushed the Z Fighters twice;
- He transcended time and space;
- He merged with the fabric of reality and attempted to become the Multiverse and Justice and Order itself;
- He was so powerful that it took the King of All himself to arrive into the battlefield.

And even then, while Frieza's, Cell's and Buu's destruction has been undone by the Dragon Balls, Zamasu's destruction will never be undone by the Dragon Balls, unless the Super Dragon Balls can affect other timelines (but we don't know that). Even Future Trunks cries and admits that he lost and failed to protect his world. Zamasu accomplished much more than Frieza, Cell and Buu combined. He is the most popular and known antagonist in Super, probably even more popular than Hit and Jiren.