So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

[MKCSTEALTH]

I think he has access to both forms. With SSJ3, he has no real use for it, as does Goku. With God, I fully believe he can use it, but it wasn't until the ToP that the anime established that the from was still a thing. It would've been cool had he used it alongside Goku

[TheSaiyanGod]

In EP 27, when Vegeta becomes SSB, Muten Roshi states that Vegeta also gained the power of Super Saiyan God, and Goku confirms, also saying that he got it on his own. Note, Roshi says '' SSG power '' and not '' SSB ´pwer '', so Vegeta really does have the power of SSG in the anime (which is something obvious, I think). But I just do not understand why TOEI decided to make Goku use that form again in ToP, but not give her to Vegeta too, considering he had several moments to use it, I just do not understand. Maybe leave that unique form to Goku?

[spoiler][/spoiler]

The SSG power is God Ki, the only thing they witnessed of such before was SSGod, that's why they worded it that way, it does not mean he has the form in the anime.

Goku himself confirmed Roshi's speech, that Vegeta had obtained the power of the '' Super Saiyan God ''.

Not to mention that, considering that Vegeta has the SSB, it is not difficult to imagine that he has access to the transformation in SSG too

[sintzu]

It could be ignorance in the writing again, or Goku just being ignorant to this in-universe in his general confidence in potential.

He doesn't have the skill to obtain SSJ3.

According to Toriyama, it's just a powered up version of Ssj1 so it doesn't require some special skill to use.

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

Before he surpassed SS3's power with his SS2 rage boost, aside from the rather obvious out of universe explanation, why Vegeta was never able to obtain SS3... I dunno. Again, maybe because he was aware of the weaknesses of the form (similar to SS 3rd grade?) and perhaps he wanted to get stronger than that with his own methods (for a possible in-universe explanation)? I mean, that can make sense for his character, not to mention he succeeded in doing so per "That's my Bulma!!!!!!!!!" rage boost.

As for SSG, it makes sense that he has it. SSG should have been used way more throughout Super. The paucity of appearances for SS3 is likely because it looks like a nightmare to animate with all its hair (for an out of universe explanation). Reminds me of episode 5... *shudders*

[sintzu]

Before he surpassed SS3's power with his SS2 rage boost, aside from the rather obvious out of universe explanation, why Vegeta was never able to obtain SS3... I dunno. Again, maybe because he was aware of the weaknesses of the form (similar to SS 3rd grade?).

I haven't seen the Buu arc in awhile so I could be wrong but didn't he say it was useless after Goku dropped out of it durin the fight against Kid buu ?

[Miracles]

It was pretty ridiculous of TOEI, never to show Vegeta in SSG mode.

[sintzu]

Super Saiyan 3 is an unnatural form that cannot be achieved through normal means.

If SS3 can't be attained through normal means, why would Goku suggest it's possible for Caulifla to attain?

Toriyama said Ssj3 is nothing more than a powered up version of Ssj1, there's nothing official about it being some different form that requires special training or being dead to reach.

[mute_proxy]

Goku himself confirmed Roshi's speech, that Vegeta had obtained the power of the '' Super Saiyan God ''.

Not to mention that, considering that Vegeta has the SSB, it is not difficult to imagine that he has access to the transformation in SSG too

As you said "the power of the super saiyan god" which is God Ki, he didn't say he obtained Super Saiyan God. There is no reason why he couldn't obtain it (like in the manga), but in the anime it seems he just didn't, or never bothered after SSB.

[sintzu]

In the anime it seems he just didn't, or never bothered after SSB.

Wouldn't he automatically get the red weaker form if he has the stronger blue one ? If you have 100$ then you also have 90$.

[Simere]

It could be ignorance in the writing again, or Goku just being ignorant to this in-universe in his general confidence in potential.

He doesn't have the skill to obtain SSJ3.

According to Toriyama, it's just a powered up version of Ssj1 so it doesn't require some special skill to use.

Being powered up variations doesn't mean it's as simple as powering up, though, or else they wouldn't have had issues figuring out how. Caulifla even went SS2 and still needed an explanation on how to do it. So, special understanding at least of how to regulate the ki in your body is necessary, and it's possible it takes special(as in prodigious) skill to accomplish that.

[Lord Beerus]

Both forms became redundant after Beerus appeared.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Honestly, I wish that even Goku didn't use SSG again.

There was this strange consistency from the form not returning; the anime actually came up with some clever workarounds compared to the manga.

I mean, it can be presumed that SS3 is something one must simply have enough time and inclination to brute-force to, and it's not exactly flawless once it's achieved. It seems that not enough time has elapsed for Vegeta to attain the form once Beerus awakens, and by then, SSG has been achieved by Goku, spurring Vegeta to train under Whis, eventually being joined by Goku where the two of them discover how to attain a form beyond even SSG that's better in every way except stamina, SSB.

He just sorta skipped SS3 and SSG because circumstance didn't allot him time to attempt to achieve them.

Again, though, I'm honestly fine with Vegeta not using these 2 forms; they just don't suit him like SSB does. If Goku hadn't started using SSG again in the Tournament of Power, it would've been perfect; the anime and manga would've had much clearer creative differences that made them more unique from each other, though they still are quite different.

[sintzu]

If Goku hadn't started using SSG again in the Tournament of Power, it would've been perfect; the anime and manga would've had much clearer creative differences that made them more unique from each other, though they still are quite different.

It's clear that SsjG was never meant to be brought back as they went 2 arcs without even hinting at it yet when the manga heavily used it in the Black arc they brought it back out of nowhere but did nothing with it. It's one of the show's really low points writing wise.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

According to Toriyama, it's just a powered up version of Ssj1 so it doesn't require some special skill to use.

They did need skill, they trained to force their bodies into changing the form into stronger variants, hence the ROST arc. Creating new variants of SS1 by this logic are feats in themselves if they are unnatural or forced mutations. It's also why I'd argue that Caulifla shouldn't have an SS2.

If Goku hadn't started using SSG again in the Tournament of Power, it would've been perfect; the anime and manga would've had much clearer creative differences that made them more unique from each other, though they still are quite different.

It's clear that SsjG was never meant to be brought back as they went 2 arcs without even hinting at it yet when the manga heavily used it in the Black arc they brought it back out of nowhere but did nothing with it. It's one of the show's really low points writing wise.

It seemed more like SSB was just them merging SSG with SS or that God ki took over their normal ki thus altered their SSB. Progressively SSG and SS shouldn't have come back, hence part of the power scaling issues, and one thing I dislike about the manga because it was only brought bck in preference of the author and not fitting the transition, though that got better after the U6 tournament.

[sintzu]

SS3 was beyond what they could just train into normally.

Where is this said ? we saw Gotenks train into it and Goku told Caulifla she can reach it.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

SS3 was beyond what they could just train into normally.

Where is this said ? we saw Gotenks train into it and Goku told Caulifla she can reach it.

Its headcanon but presented this way. SS3 Gotenks = fusion + ROST + Fighting an SS3 level character for a while. The only way to really not dismiss it as an asspull everyone goes to, when they want to defend Caulifla.

[batistabus]

If SS3 can't be attained through normal means, why would Goku suggest it's possible for Caulifla to attain?

Because Toriyama doesn't write the anime, nor does he thoroughly supervise it (as far as we currently understand).

Vegeta not getting Super Saiyan 3 has no in-universe explanation either. What you said is a known, old and baseless theory. Future Trunks didn't know about Super Saiyan 3, that's why he didn't achieve before.

Trunks not knowing about Super Saiyan 3 isn't a good reason for him not to have obtained it. Goku didn't know about it either, but he still made it happen. Trunks sensed that there was something beyond Super Saiyan 2, but wasn't able to reach it despite having seemingly sufficient power.

It's not baseless:
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Later on in the arc when Gotenks uses Super Saiyan 3, the fusion is cut short. It's an extremely similar concept of Super Saiyan 3's reliance on unnatural power and time coming in to play.

It's about reading between the lines. Nobody knew Super Saiyan 3 existed until Goku figured it out, so there's no reason to come right out and say "Super Saiyan 3 can only be achieved through unnatural means" because that's not known for sure by the characters in-universe. Nobody has done it any other way, but we do have two examples that work with the same limitations. While we don't have any examples of Vegeta looking into the possibility of transforming into a Super Saiyan 3, we do have that for Trunks, who was unable despite being seemingly capable. Three solid pieces of evidence, as far as I'm concerned.

Reading between the lines in regards to SS3 is different for Super Saiyan God because, unlike with SS3, nothing is stated that even somewhat implies SSG cannot be attained without the ritual. If Vegeta had chimed in and described SSG as "the transformation from that ritual" after the BoG arc, then we'd have something to work with. While there is a reason for Vegeta to use SSG in the manga, no such reason exists in the anime. The only person we ever see utilize that form in the anime's continuity is Goku, who is capable of using it post-ritual. SSG is a transformation resulting form the use of God ki, while SSB is a combination of God ki and Super Saiyan. Obviously, Vegeta is capable of SSB. In this situation, despite the fact that we never SEE Vegeta use SSG, there's nothing that implies that he can't do it either. That's why I said the ritual requirement is as good as a fan explanation as any, but doesn't necessarily reflect the reality in-universe. Personally, I think it's likely Vegeta would be capable of SSG in the anime's continuity, but again, that's just head-cannon.

So while neither case can be proven 100%, and things could certainly change moving forward with future Dragon Ball stories, there is much stronger evidence that Vegeta cannot become a SS3 than there is that he cannot become a SSG.

[Grimlock]

Trunks not knowing about Super Saiyan 3 isn't a good reason for him not to have obtained it. Goku didn't know about it either, but he still made it happen. Trunks sensed that there was something beyond Super Saiyan 2, but wasn't able to reach it despite having seemingly sufficient power.

In Cell saga, they imply they can figure when there's something beyond. So it's an individual thing (there's a Vegeta's line that supports this). Trunks says he didn't know about it, and he didn't figure there was a form beyond. That power-up he pulled from Dende knows where for Super Saiyan 2 is something Trunks did in comparison to Gohan, he knew that form, he knew its awesome power that the transformation provides, and decided to enhance it, which also explains why he didn't figure there was a form beyond Super Saiyan 2, he focused on something else.

[batistabus]

Trunks not knowing about Super Saiyan 3 isn't a good reason for him not to have obtained it. Goku didn't know about it either, but he still made it happen. Trunks sensed that there was something beyond Super Saiyan 2, but wasn't able to reach it despite having seemingly sufficient power.

In Cell saga, they imply they can figure when there's something beyond. So it's an individual thing (there's a Vegeta's line that supports this). Trunks says he didn't know about it, and he didn't figure there was a form beyond. That power-up he pulled from Dende knows where for Super Saiyan 2 is something Trunks did in comparison to Gohan, he knew that form, he knew its awesome power that the transformation provides, and decided to enhance it, which also explains why he didn't figure there was a form beyond Super Saiyan 2, he focused on something else.

In the case of the Cell arc, we also have the piece of the puzzle that is baseline power. Gohan simply had more latent potential than Vegeta, Trunks, or Goku at that time. Part of it is knowing (through either sensing or prior knowledge), but the other part is being capable. In the anime, Goku's SS3 far outclasses what Trunks is capable of. In the manga, Vegeta states that Trunks (SS2 "max power") is as strong as Goku (SS3). For all intents and purposes, Trunks appears to have the required power. I believe the manga is closer to Toriyama's vision of Dragon Ball than the anime (for better or worse), but even if Toriyama doesn't necessarily think that SS3 should have unnatural requirements, Toyotaro appears to believe so. And if Toyotaro does believe that - aside from Toriyama sharing tidbits with him we don't know about - I think it's because of what I explained in my previous post.

[KingKaash]

Yea the writers missed out on an opportunity to have Vegeta go SSJG in the ToP. That would've been an epic, memorable moment for Vegeta