i'm not pissed about super's powerlevels

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

PFM18
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 789
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:23 pm

Re: i'm not pissed about super's powerlevels

Postby PFM18 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:51 pm

Doctor. wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
Doctor. wrote:I call it the "real Dragon Ball" because it's the original, uninterrupted 520 chapters of Dragon Ball as written by Toriyama back in the 80s and 90s for Weekly Shounen Jump. I'm not sure why you're getting so offended at that.


I am not sure why you think I am getting offended by that. This is a discussion nobody should be offended

So you are not saying ""Real Dragon Ball" as an implication that it is better? because it sure sounds like it. You referred to it when discussing the powerlevels in Super as though the "Real Dragon Ball" didn't have these problems. And now you are saying that you are only calling it that because it is the original? Sounds like backtracking to me

It's the original and it's better :wink:


Ok so then aren't you going to refute anything? this idea that brief breaches in power scaling is good for the plot? I certainly gave several examples of that being the case. Vegeta being a perfect example on Namek(that I explained in the previous post). It furthered the plot though and was a part of the greatest arc in DB history. What about Krillin and Gohan each getting a hit on Dodoria that incapacitates him in order to escape with Dende? Would you rather Krillin punch him to no effect and Dende and the three of them die? Or for Gohan and 17 be unable to get huge powerups and ultimately be completely irrelevant in the tournament? that would be consistent and therefore not shit writing right? The list goes on and on of these inconsistencies between both and most of the time it serves to further the plot very well. Does it make sense In-Universe? No but it is still better this way

User avatar
Doctor.
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 9793
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:02 am
Location: Portugal

Re: i'm not pissed about super's powerlevels

Postby Doctor. » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:04 pm

PFM18 wrote:Ok so then aren't you going to refute anything? this idea that brief breaches in power scaling is good for the plot? I certainly gave several examples of that being the case. Vegeta being a perfect example on Namek(that I explained in the previous post). It furthered the plot though and was a part of the greatest arc in DB history. What about Krillin and Gohan each getting a hit on Dodoria that incapacitates him in order to escape with Dende? Would you rather Krillin punch him to no effect and Dende and the three of them die? Or for Gohan and 17 be unable to get huge powerups and ultimately be completely irrelevant in the tournament? that would be consistent and therefore not shit writing right? The list goes on and on of these inconsistencies between both and most of the time it serves to further the plot very well. Does it make sense In-Universe? No but it is still better this way

There's nothing to refute. Yes, it doesn't make sense, and yes, it's better for the plot. Small deviations are acceptable because scaling, obviously, shouldn't be a mathematical equation. I keep arguing that the difference between the two series lies in execution, because, yes they both do the same things and make the same mistakes; Super's way of handling things is just offensively bad. How a deviation from consistency may work in regards to helping the plot, and how believable or how tolerable it is, that's all a case-by-case basis.

PFM18
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 789
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:23 pm

Re: i'm not pissed about super's powerlevels

Postby PFM18 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:12 pm

There's plenty to refute. But you wont because reasons.

How is Merged Zamasu being overpowered by Goku briefly any different than Tien briefly overpowering Semi Perfect Cell? Or is it a case by case basis? Oh right the case by case is:

Case 1: It is DBZ
Case 2: It is DBS

Where Case 1 is always a great examlple of writing and consistency and Case 2 is "offensively bad."

User avatar
Doctor.
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 9793
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:02 am
Location: Portugal

Re: i'm not pissed about super's powerlevels

Postby Doctor. » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:47 pm

PFM18 wrote:There's plenty to refute. But you wont because reasons.

How is Merged Zamasu being overpowered by Goku briefly any different than Tien briefly overpowering Semi Perfect Cell? Or is it a case by case basis? Oh right the case by case is:

Case 1: It is DBZ
Case 2: It is DBS

Where Case 1 is always a great examlple of writing and consistency and Case 2 is "offensively bad."


I don't like Tenshinhan overpowering Cell either, but there is a difference between the two. Tenshinhan didn't cause any damage whereas Goku did. That's simple enough reason to make someone prefer one scene over the other.

You keep missing the point. It is a case-by-case basis. The 21st and 22nd and 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai are all the same tournament, in the same format, in the same location, with the same announcer and mostly the same set of characters. But people still argue about which one is the best, because there are other variables into the mix, namely new characters, different character dynamics, different conflicts and drama, different fights, different stakes, so on and so forth. You can't equate the three because at the surface they seem similar.

Powerscaling inconsistencies are exactly the same thing; there are numerous variables at play which decide how egregious the inconsistency is to the story: stakes, how big the boost is, which character it is, how much the power boost accomplishes in the story, what kind of explanation was given, does it contradict any theme or goes against any traits that the character had before, etc. The fact is that all power boosts are arbitrary. We know this; we know Toriyama isn't writing with a calculator at hand and he just writes whatever he wants. That's irrelevant, because every story development, not just power boosts, have to fit into the narrative that had been created up to that point, they have to feel credible and believable in the context of the universe. What sets the original series apart from Super is that, in my view, the original series normally has a coherent explanation for characters getting stronger: genetics, in the case of Zenkai, Super Saiyan, Namekian fusion and Gohan's terribly arbitrary power boosts; training under severe conditions for a long period of time; training under a more powerful master; absorbing other people's power, in the case of Cell and Boo; list goes on. You always have some kind of explanation, which you're free to believe or not, as to how a character got from point A in strength to point B.

The problem with Super is that it doesn't do explanations, and the few times it does, they never feel satisfactory enough because the power boost usually shits on everything that the series or the character stood for previously. Future Trunks is as strong as Goku from the get-go, with no explanation, despite the fact that Trunks has barely been getting food to eat whilst Goku has been training with Whis and Beerus. Then future Trunks manages to hold off Rosé Black in Super Saiyan 2, for no reason, with no explanation, despite the fact that a few episodes back he was getting his ass kicked by a (weaker) base Black. Then future Trunks gets a new, exclusive, previously unknown transformation (and the only explanation they give is that he was really mad) that, as a whole, just feels useless, since it did nothing Trunks wasn't doing as a Super Saiyan 2 before. Why are these things so bad? Because they shit on all of the hard-work, progress and effort Goku (and Vegeta) has gone through in the entire series, they ignore how Trunks never got such arbitrary and ridiculous power boosts in the original series, they shit on Trunks' entire conflict because why should I care about his struggle if he can just get stronger magically, and it needlessly complicates the Super Saiyan transformation tree, among other things. These are some of the implications of Trunks' boosts in the Black arc.

You can make a list for the implications of every power boost in Super and in the original series and only then would it be fair to equate the two series. But as it stands, yes, it's a case-by-case basis because every inconsistency has its own set of implications. It's a very narrow way of thinking to suggest that they're all the same.

Does Super have some power boosts that aren't that bad? Sure, I don't really mind Kuririn's portrayal against Goku in #84. Does DB have power boosts that are very egregious and shit on everything that had been established previously? Piccolo's boost in the 3-year time period come to mind. I'm not saying Super is complete shit and the original series is perfect, never have I said that and never will I say that, so I'd like it if you could stop acting as if I'm excusing everything Z does because that isn't happening. What I'm saying is that the original series mostly does stuff right, and Super mostly does stuff wrong, and that everything Super does right, the original series probably did better; and I'm giving my reasons as to why, I'm not blindly stating Z is perfect and can do no wrong as you're suggesting.

User avatar
Baggie_Saiyan
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8618
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:22 pm
Location: Atlantis.

Re: i'm not pissed about super's powerlevels

Postby Baggie_Saiyan » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:10 pm

emperior wrote:I used to seriously dislike Super's power-scaling inconsistencies, but I've stopped to care about those as they didn't really "ruin" the show for me. For example, I remember many people being disappointed about how Future Trunks was able to kick Rosè Black in episode 57, but that's a case where the fight didn't suddenly turn in Trunks' favor and that scene was actually entertaining to me.

I have started to look at Super more like a martial arts-focused show. I like how strong characters no longer have the overwhelming advantage over everyone else, which makes it feel more realistic and also gives writers more flexibility to make some entertaining battles even between two fighters on different levels of power.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't want power scaling to be messy, but I would prefer it if the show handled power and battles like in OG DB rather than like in DBZ.

To that point Black wasn't expecting Trunks to jump in, it caught him off guard. I think a lot of people are just pedantic with things, like complaining how Black and Zamasu can be affected by mustard gas despite the fact we've had in the past the likes of Goku suffering from a regular human species heart disease, just because these guys aren't human doesn't mean they can't be affected by these things.

You're right, sometimes despite someone being stronger that doesn't mean once or twice you can't get the better of them. Like here in England Man City are the best football team in the country yet the lost to 3rd division Wigan in one match, they player for player are superior to Wigan in every way but still lost. Sameway someone in DB can just got a punch or kick or two on someone "stronger" then them. You're spot on DBS has made it more tense by having someone on paper who is stronger not necessarily win, things aren't won on paper.

And #66, plenty of people cried about Trunks' "asspull" yet it didn't change the situation one bit. Goku still had to call on Zen-Oh. But it gave us a damn entertaining and fulfilling scene and much better then Goku using the button after Vegetto defuses... Like boring!

And then the Android #17 being strong and people calling it bad writing blah blah blah, yet in Z he was stronger then Freeza and people accepted it like that, these "Andriods" are supposed to be stronger then that evil mutant planet blowing tyrant alien? "Cool cool", but in DBS "How the f**k did #17 get so strong in DBS, f**k Toei and their shitty writing"

namekiansaiyan
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 4303
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:39 am

Re: i'm not pissed about super's powerlevels

Postby namekiansaiyan » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:24 pm

The power ups of Frieza, Trunks, 17 and Gohan make no sense. Since they are all returning characters in some way there was no way they were going to be weak or their return would be shit and pointless.

They all powered up to be in the same realm as Goku, not way weaker or way stronger so they create tension but also to make the returning characters look good around Goku.

I now wait for this treatment regarding power to happen to other people from universe 7 and also the other Universes and will not be satisfied until tbis does happen.

PFM18
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 789
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:23 pm

Re: i'm not pissed about super's powerlevels

Postby PFM18 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:58 pm

namekiansaiyan wrote:The power ups of Frieza, Trunks, 17 and Gohan make no sense. Since they are all returning characters in some way there was no way they were going to be weak or their return would be shit and pointless.

They all powered up to be in the same realm as Goku, not way weaker or way stronger so they create tension but also to make the returning characters look good around Goku.

I now wait for this treatment regarding power to happen to other people from universe 7 and also the other Universes and will not be satisfied until tbis does happen.


Gohan is the only one that really makes no sense. Considering the massive gains Trunks made in the RoSAT in Z which was only 1 year, it makes sense that after 13 years he would achieve a very large boost again. Freeza had never trained in his entire life and he was incredibly strong and never had to do anything and had no reason to do anything at all. So then now he trains and he gains a massive boost. That makes sense. Gohan got an asspull type power up but that is nothing new

namekiansaiyan
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 4303
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:39 am

Re: i'm not pissed about super's powerlevels

Postby namekiansaiyan » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:08 pm

PFM18 wrote:
namekiansaiyan wrote:The power ups of Frieza, Trunks, 17 and Gohan make no sense. Since they are all returning characters in some way there was no way they were going to be weak or their return would be shit and pointless.

They all powered up to be in the same realm as Goku, not way weaker or way stronger so they create tension but also to make the returning characters look good around Goku.

I now wait for this treatment regarding power to happen to other people from universe 7 and also the other Universes and will not be satisfied until tbis does happen.


Gohan is the only one that really makes no sense. Considering the massive gains Trunks made in the RoSAT in Z which was only 1 year, it makes sense that after 13 years he would achieve a very large boost again. Freeza had never trained in his entire life and he was incredibly strong and never had to do anything and had no reason to do anything at all. So then now he trains and he gains a massive boost. That makes sense. Gohan got an asspull type power up but that is nothing new


The boosts were huge and especially as SSB is treated as this extremely powerful thing by Toriyama. The gap betwrrn Goku on Namek and Cell arc is ridiculously huge

How can only 4 months of training increase your training so much even if you haven't trained before? Basically another month and Frieza will be stronger than Beerus and Jiren going by his rate wbich is ridiculous.

Also the fact they are all around Goku just makes it unbelievable. They all train and are basically the same as SSB which is just not believable.

PFM18
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 789
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:23 pm

Re: i'm not pissed about super's powerlevels

Postby PFM18 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:55 pm

namekiansaiyan wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
namekiansaiyan wrote:The power ups of Frieza, Trunks, 17 and Gohan make no sense. Since they are all returning characters in some way there was no way they were going to be weak or their return would be shit and pointless.

They all powered up to be in the same realm as Goku, not way weaker or way stronger so they create tension but also to make the returning characters look good around Goku.

I now wait for this treatment regarding power to happen to other people from universe 7 and also the other Universes and will not be satisfied until tbis does happen.


Gohan is the only one that really makes no sense. Considering the massive gains Trunks made in the RoSAT in Z which was only 1 year, it makes sense that after 13 years he would achieve a very large boost again. Freeza had never trained in his entire life and he was incredibly strong and never had to do anything and had no reason to do anything at all. So then now he trains and he gains a massive boost. That makes sense. Gohan got an asspull type power up but that is nothing new


The boosts were huge and especially as SSB is treated as this extremely powerful thing by Toriyama. The gap betwrrn Goku on Namek and Cell arc is ridiculously huge

How can only 4 months of training increase your training so much even if you haven't trained before? Basically another month and Frieza will be stronger than Beerus and Jiren going by his rate wbich is ridiculous.

Also the fact they are all around Goku just makes it unbelievable. They all train and are basically the same as SSB which is just not believable.

The gap between Freeza and SPC is 100x if you exaggerate. Piccolo gained a boost of over 100x in 3 years training for the andoids. Freeza has infinitely more potential because he starts out millions of times stronger than Piccolo.

The only one that I would say it is true that they are "basically Goku" is Freeza. Gohan is clearly a few steps behind and 17 is definitely not an equal of Goku's SSB either. They are on the same level for sure but Goku is clearly stronger than them

User avatar
MKCSTEALTH
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 416
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:50 pm

Re: i'm not pissed about super's powerlevels

Postby MKCSTEALTH » Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:31 am

I feel with Super moreso over Z there were more cases of "scaling to the narrative" over simply scaling to feats. In Z, we were introduced to characters who were then clearly established to be stronger than the last big bad and became the predominant threat. With Super, it became more about the narrative. Hence why we have the odd cases of Trunks getting Super Saiyan Rage and fighting equally with Black, or Caulifla and Ribrianne lasting as long as they did. It essentially came down to plot armor. Though I will say, certain aspects of the narrative did try to explain some things. Like how Caulifla basically asked Goku to "train her to go SSJ3" and he was like "alright sure"

It doesn't make sense, but at the end of it all we got a lot of entertaining fights. I do wish characters weren't as relitavistic to one another and we had some actual moments of dominance. Jiren was the closest we got to that, and even that to me was flawed due to the narrative

namekiansaiyan
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 4303
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:39 am

Re: i'm not pissed about super's powerlevels

Postby namekiansaiyan » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:26 am

PFM18 wrote:
namekiansaiyan wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
Gohan is the only one that really makes no sense. Considering the massive gains Trunks made in the RoSAT in Z which was only 1 year, it makes sense that after 13 years he would achieve a very large boost again. Freeza had never trained in his entire life and he was incredibly strong and never had to do anything and had no reason to do anything at all. So then now he trains and he gains a massive boost. That makes sense. Gohan got an asspull type power up but that is nothing new


The boosts were huge and especially as SSB is treated as this extremely powerful thing by Toriyama. The gap betwrrn Goku on Namek and Cell arc is ridiculously huge

How can only 4 months of training increase your training so much even if you haven't trained before? Basically another month and Frieza will be stronger than Beerus and Jiren going by his rate wbich is ridiculous.

Also the fact they are all around Goku just makes it unbelievable. They all train and are basically the same as SSB which is just not believable.

The gap between Freeza and SPC is 100x if you exaggerate. Piccolo gained a boost of over 100x in 3 years training for the andoids. Freeza has infinitely more potential because he starts out millions of times stronger than Piccolo.

The only one that I would say it is true that they are "basically Goku" is Freeza. Gohan is clearly a few steps behind and 17 is definitely not an equal of Goku's SSB either. They are on the same level for sure but Goku is clearly stronger than them


I don't like it when people say that the stronger you were when you were born the more potnetial you have. It makes no sense. You can still be weaker at first but have more potential by simply getting stronger due to training.

I know we don't know much about Jiren but I think most assume he was not strong at all when he was young but trained all by himself to be stronger than a GoD and he is the peefect example of what I just said.

I also don't like this prodigy rubbish as well as clearly all characters are this. Also the stuff about the Saiyans being the strongest race is also rubbish when for most of their existence they have been weak until Goku and it is why the gains they make now are ridiculous.

blain218
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:29 pm

Re: i'm not pissed about super's powerlevels

Postby blain218 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:07 am

emperior wrote:I used to seriously dislike Super's power-scaling inconsistencies, but I've stopped to care about those as they didn't really "ruin" the show for me. For example, I remember many people being disappointed about how Future Trunks was able to kick Rosè Black in episode 57, but that's a case where the fight didn't suddenly turn in Trunks' favor and that scene was actually entertaining to me.

I have started to look at Super more like a martial arts-focused show. I like how strong characters no longer have the overwhelming advantage over everyone else, which makes it feel more realistic and also gives writers more flexibility to make some entertaining battles even between two fighters on different levels of power.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't want power scaling to be messy, but I would prefer it if the show handled power and battles like in OG DB rather than like in DBZ.


OG DB was still powerlevel centered. Idk why people act like it was different when it wasn't.

User avatar
Cipher
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5243
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:54 pm
Location: Nagano
Contact:

Re: i'm not pissed about super's powerlevels

Postby Cipher » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:29 am

Jackalope89 wrote:Other than "Character A is stronger than Character B", I never really bothered much with power levels beyond that.

And don't get me started on the numbered crap that still pops up from time to time. :problem:

This is exactly where I land, but, for better or worse, the way Dragon Ball plays out, that basic understanding is important for narrative tension.

It's also never been as radically unclear as it was with Super anime. How strong are base Goku and Vegeta? How strong is Ribrianne? I have absolutely no idea. And while most of the time that can be pushed to the back of your mind, there are scenes where it makes for a distracting head-scratcher.

I think analyzing things to the degree of, "Oh, so and so kicked so and so and they reacted this way! How do we figure out how that affects power-scaling!" is twenty steps too far, and a completely irrelevant and pedantic forum game certain groups of fans like to play. But just a basic, "A is more powerful than B" has never been so muddled.

Re: Thread: I'm not "pissed" about Super's power levels, because it's hard to be "pissed" at Super at all. I'm just a little confused, more so than anything about the fact the series managed to get me to take note of mishandled relative powers to begin with.

User avatar
The Monkey King
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 856
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:53 am

Re: i'm not pissed about super's powerlevels

Postby The Monkey King » Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:58 pm

DBS Power level problems ruined the narrative of 2 of its 4 arcs.

Firstly is the Battle of Gods arc, where it turns out Beerus wasn't using 70% of his power to beat SSJG Goku, it was more like 0.7% as SSB KK X 10 Goku is still weaker than Beerus and according to the manga only SSJB Vegito is Beerus level. Why would Beerus go through such effort to fight such a weak opponent if he could just fight Champa?

And the Goku Black/Future Trunks arc. The writers went out of their way to establish that Trunks doesn't stand a chance to base Black no matter what. Then all of a sudden he's fending off and getting Hit's on SSJR Black. If Trunks was this powerful all this time why didn't he just one shot base Black and be done with it?

Poor writing all around.
garfield15 wrote:"Now Goku, we shall have our Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods Movie 14, now available on DVD and blu-ray!"

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww111/DaSavage68/coolaisawesome.gif

SoraKhearts
Newbie
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 3:25 pm

Re: i'm not pissed about super's powerlevels

Postby SoraKhearts » Sun May 13, 2018 4:09 pm

I'm not gonna go to deep into this but I personally couldn't less about the power levels, cause no one in the anime even mentions power levels anymore, it's power scaling that still applies and even that isn't the most accurate, from what I've seen in the anime characters are as strong as the plot needs them to be
Last edited by SoraKhearts on Sun May 13, 2018 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SoraKhearts
Newbie
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 3:25 pm

Re: i'm not pissed about super's powerlevels

Postby SoraKhearts » Sun May 13, 2018 4:19 pm

Power levels don't really anything anymore, it is power scaling that applies to Dragon Ball Super

User avatar
Saturnine
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1248
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:45 am

Re: i'm not pissed about super's powerlevels

Postby Saturnine » Tue May 15, 2018 10:00 am

namekiansaiyan wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
namekiansaiyan wrote:The power ups of Frieza, Trunks, 17 and Gohan make no sense. Since they are all returning characters in some way there was no way they were going to be weak or their return would be shit and pointless.

They all powered up to be in the same realm as Goku, not way weaker or way stronger so they create tension but also to make the returning characters look good around Goku.

I now wait for this treatment regarding power to happen to other people from universe 7 and also the other Universes and will not be satisfied until tbis does happen.


Gohan is the only one that really makes no sense. Considering the massive gains Trunks made in the RoSAT in Z which was only 1 year, it makes sense that after 13 years he would achieve a very large boost again. Freeza had never trained in his entire life and he was incredibly strong and never had to do anything and had no reason to do anything at all. So then now he trains and he gains a massive boost. That makes sense. Gohan got an asspull type power up but that is nothing new


The boosts were huge and especially as SSB is treated as this extremely powerful thing by Toriyama. The gap betwrrn Goku on Namek and Cell arc is ridiculously huge

How can only 4 months of training increase your training so much even if you haven't trained before? Basically another month and Frieza will be stronger than Beerus and Jiren going by his rate wbich is ridiculous.

Also the fact they are all around Goku just makes it unbelievable. They all train and are basically the same as SSB which is just not believable.


Because Goku was born with a PL of 2, and Freeza with one of 120 million. One tends to be a better starting point than the other, scales faster too. Natural talent is also a factor.

PFM18
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 789
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:23 pm

Re: i'm not pissed about super's powerlevels

Postby PFM18 » Tue May 15, 2018 7:46 pm

The Monkey King wrote:DBS Power level problems ruined the narrative of 2 of its 4 arcs.

Firstly is the Battle of Gods arc, where it turns out Beerus wasn't using 70% of his power to beat SSJG Goku, it was more like 0.7% as SSB KK X 10 Goku is still weaker than Beerus and according to the manga only SSJB Vegito is Beerus level. Why would Beerus go through such effort to fight such a weak opponent if he could just fight Champa?

And the Goku Black/Future Trunks arc. The writers went out of their way to establish that Trunks doesn't stand a chance to base Black no matter what. Then all of a sudden he's fending off and getting Hit's on SSJR Black. If Trunks was this powerful all this time why didn't he just one shot base Black and be done with it?

Poor writing all around.


Neither of these are objectively examples of poor writing.

The BoG arc the entire point was that Beerus is so incredibly strong that somebody who is even remotely close appearing never happens. Would you rather Beeris actually use 70% and then by the time of the end of the U6 arc GoDs are rendered irrelevant?

"If he waa this powerful all along why didnt he one shot Base Black?" Yeah this is you just misinterpreting what actually happened. It was never implied that Trunks could have one shot him the entire time or anything like that. Trunks trained with Vegeta and THEN he could kind of compete with Black (but not really). The narrator and the episode description described his increase in strength from traininv with Vegeta. You act as though there was this awful writing where this was never explained. There was a reason given for this, whether it was a good reason is for you to decide. But dont act like this was just a blatant contradiction

User avatar
OLKv3
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1546
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 12:39 pm

Re: i'm not pissed about super's powerlevels

Postby OLKv3 » Fri May 18, 2018 8:52 am

Power scaling showed up way before Z. DB had it consistently, with Goku always being far above his weakling friends

User avatar
BlueBasilisk
I Live Here
Posts: 2376
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:58 am

Re: i'm not pissed about super's powerlevels

Postby BlueBasilisk » Fri May 18, 2018 11:29 am

PFM18 wrote: It was never implied that Trunks could have one shot him the entire time or anything like that. Trunks trained with Vegeta and THEN he could kind of compete with Black (but not really).

And even with Rage, Trunks wasn't doing so hot against Black. Black ate the Galick Gun that blew up the Zero Ningen Clubhouse and while it did knock him away, when he came back he scoffed that it might have bruised him.

I personally find that some of the 'confusing' parts come from Goku's tendency to either fight a stronger opponent in a weaker form or a weaker opponent while holding back in a stronger form.

Like when he fought Frieza in the RoF arc. Frieza was evidently quite a bit stronger than Goku at base vs final form (Goku admitted he couldn't beat him in base before he went Blue) but Goku didn't transform into Super Saiyan because he wanted to see if he could win without transforming. That also happened with SS2 Goku vs Ultimate Gohan and base Goku vs SS2 Caulifla.

On the flip side you have stuff like SSB Goku vs Krillin and SS Goku vs SS Great Saiyaman (rusty) in that training epsiode. In the first case he obviously did not need to use that form to beat Krillin but was doing so to prove a point. The latter was a sparring match to cure Goku's restlessness and wasn't a serious battle but people took it as proof that Goku and Gohan were even because Gohan was able to hang with him for a while.


Return to “Dragon Ball Super”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: PsionicWarrior, sangofe and 9 guests