What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

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Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

Post by SsjCookie » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:12 pm

No true elements of surprise throughout most of the arc, except until the end.

But in between ...No plots, no unexpected turn of events, no real schemes, no side stories, no battle tension, and no character development.
This arc had potential, but completely wasted it in my opinion.

It was just dumb fighting with mostly highly predictable outcomes.
17 winning the tournament and Zeno's test was the only element of surprise in this whole arc.

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Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

Post by SsjCookie » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:12 pm

Puaru wrote:GOHAN.SUCKING.BALLS.
And this!

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Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

Post by Weejus » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:32 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:I didn't outright "hate" anything the arc offered, but there were many aspects that disappointed me quite a bit:
- The writing and direction (for the most part) for Episodes 87, 89, 100, 106, 119, 124 and 126
- The reveal of Universe 7 having only 28 planets inhabited by mortals
- Universe 10 contributing nothing
- The mishandling of Ribiranne
- The terrible treatment Tien received before and during the Tournament Of Power
- The 48 minute time limit which hindered the structure of the narrative
- The red herring of Universe 4 having an ace up their sleeve and it leading to nothing
- The "No flight allowed" stipulation which was almost immediately ignored
- The complete waste and mismanagement of Hakaishin Toppo in Episode 126
- The over usage at times of the peanut gallery
- The mention of Gohan achieving a new form and doing nothing with that statement after that
- The plot point of Vegeta having nearly no energy left at the end of Episode 126 and then transforming right at the beginning of Episode 127
- Constantly teasing Kale and Caulifla attaining SSJ3 and then not following through with either character getting the form
- The Tournament Of Power being reduced to Universe 7 vs Everyone Else after Episode 112
- Doing a slowburn approach of Jiren's characterization and development

Despite all these issues I have, I think the Universal Survival arc is the second best arc in all of Dragon Ball.
How do you feel Ribrianne was mishandled?

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Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

Post by Jackalope89 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:57 pm

Can't really think of anything I actually hated. Other than the seemingly endless whining and complaining about characters like Ribrianne, Kale not being Broly, and Caulifla.

The part where Quitella's universe was eliminated was a disappointment, but still didn't hate it.
Wasn't happy with Tien's episode.

But, yeah.

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Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

Post by VegettoEX » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:00 pm

Puaru wrote:GOHAN.SUCKING.BALLS.
This is a worthless contribution and, needless to say, absolutely does not live up to the spirit of our community guidelines. An account strike has been issued. Account strikes add up to temporary/permanent bans, which revoke access to the entirety of the Kanzenshuu website. Please re-evaluate what it is you are looking to get out of your time here.
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Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

Post by Dragon Ball Gus » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:05 pm

Kefla getting eliminated after only 3 episodes of screentime. :( :evil: :x
Caulifla best girl! :)

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Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

Post by Weejus » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:30 pm

Jackalope89 wrote:Can't really think of anything I actually hated. Other than the seemingly endless whining and complaining about characters like Ribrianne, Kale not being Broly, and Caulifla.

The part where Quitella's universe was eliminated was a disappointment, but still didn't hate it.
Wasn't happy with Tien's episode.

But, yeah.
I wonder if there's a potential correlation between new female characters having more-than-background roles and certain groups of fans incessantly whining over it. Perhaps there's a deeper issue within a portion of the Dragon Ball fanbase that should be addressed?

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Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

Post by PFM18 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:54 pm

SsjCookie wrote:No true elements of surprise throughout most of the arc, except until the end.

But in between ...No plots, no unexpected turn of events, no real schemes, no side stories, no battle tension, and no character development.
This arc had potential, but completely wasted it in my opinion.

It was just dumb fighting with mostly highly predictable outcomes.
17 winning the tournament and Zeno's test was the only element of surprise in this whole arc.
How do you figure there is no tension? People were fighting for the lives of their entire universe? And no character development? Vegeta being a mentor with Cabba among other things showed development in this arc, 17 showed development until the end, Kale definitely developed, Toppo changed his character, most obviously that Jiren progressed as a character.

I find it extremely hard to believe that you found this tournament to not have have any unexpected turn of events.
Dragon Ball Gus wrote:Kefla getting eliminated after only 3 episodes of screentime. :( :evil: :x
You wanted more than 3 episodes of her? That seemed like plenty to me. Any more episodes and she would have taken up over 10% of the tournament.

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Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

Post by Puaru » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:57 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
Puaru wrote:GOHAN.SUCKING.BALLS.
This is a worthless contribution and, needless to say, absolutely does not live up to the spirit of our community guidelines. An account strike has been issued. Account strikes add up to temporary/permanent bans, which revoke access to the entirety of the Kanzenshuu website. Please re-evaluate what it is you are looking to get out of your time here.
Oh okay. Well I certainly stand by the essential meaning behind my statement, but I suppose I should have expressed it in some other way.

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Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

Post by Logania » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:39 pm

• Tournament telling us after every episode the time limit left, breaking the immersion and being pointless as it had no point for the tournament.
• The peanut gallery (mainly Krillin) taking us out of the fight to say stupid stuff we already know.
• "If you would've wished for ANYTHING else, we would've erased everything lol" -Grand Preist
• Vegeta and Goku regaining their stamina when they wasted it all, with Vegeta immediately turning SSJBE right after using all his energy on Toppo 5 seconds later being the worse example of it.
• My boi Hit not having enough screentime, going out too quickly like a punk.
• Zeno's stupid comments during the tournament. "Sugoi! SUGOI!"
• Sandbagging to the extreme (looking at you, Jiren)

Other little things I don't wanna list as they're minor gripes, not things I REALLY don't like.
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Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

Post by ToshioWrites » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:56 pm

Weejus wrote:
Jackalope89 wrote:Can't really think of anything I actually hated. Other than the seemingly endless whining and complaining about characters like Ribrianne, Kale not being Broly, and Caulifla.

The part where Quitella's universe was eliminated was a disappointment, but still didn't hate it.
Wasn't happy with Tien's episode.

But, yeah.
I wonder if there's a potential correlation between new female characters having more-than-background roles and certain groups of fans incessantly whining over it. Perhaps there's a deeper issue within a portion of the Dragon Ball fanbase that should be addressed?

How exactly are you gonna address that?

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Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:07 pm

Weejus wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:I didn't outright "hate" anything the arc offered, but there were many aspects that disappointed me quite a bit:
- The writing and direction (for the most part) for Episodes 87, 89, 100, 106, 119, 124 and 126
- The reveal of Universe 7 having only 28 planets inhabited by mortals
- Universe 10 contributing nothing
- The mishandling of Ribiranne
- The terrible treatment Tien received before and during the Tournament Of Power
- The 48 minute time limit which hindered the structure of the narrative
- The red herring of Universe 4 having an ace up their sleeve and it leading to nothing
- The "No flight allowed" stipulation which was almost immediately ignored
- The complete waste and mismanagement of Hakaishin Toppo in Episode 126
- The over usage at times of the peanut gallery
- The mention of Gohan achieving a new form and doing nothing with that statement after that
- The plot point of Vegeta having nearly no energy left at the end of Episode 126 and then transforming right at the beginning of Episode 127
- Constantly teasing Kale and Caulifla attaining SSJ3 and then not following through with either character getting the form
- The Tournament Of Power being reduced to Universe 7 vs Everyone Else after Episode 112
- Doing a slowburn approach of Jiren's characterization and development

Despite all these issues I have, I think the Universal Survival arc is the second best arc in all of Dragon Ball.
How do you feel Ribrianne was mishandled?
I just felt like Toei didn't know how to handle her in combat. It's like they wanted to make her a big deal in Tournament Of Power, but got cold feet every time. Like, the first thing we see her when she transforms in Episode 101 do is tangle with #17 (a SSJB tier fighter). And then she fights SSJ Vegeta and you get the idea she's incredibly powerful.

Then, in the episode right after 110, the episode where Goku used SSJB to take down a powered up Ribrianne, she nearly gets defeat by Vegeta in his base form. Then she morphs into some Giant Kaiju like form and you think this would be the start of being a major threat, but #18 then just one shots her and she's eliminated.

In my honest opinion, out of all the new characters in Dragon Ball Super, Ribrianne is the most inconsistently written in the entire show, and that is really saying something. That being said, I enjoyed her dynamic with #18 and character moment after being defeated was nice.

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Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

Post by Weejus » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:08 pm

ToshioWrites wrote:
Weejus wrote:
Jackalope89 wrote:Can't really think of anything I actually hated. Other than the seemingly endless whining and complaining about characters like Ribrianne, Kale not being Broly, and Caulifla.

The part where Quitella's universe was eliminated was a disappointment, but still didn't hate it.
Wasn't happy with Tien's episode.

But, yeah.
I wonder if there's a potential correlation between new female characters having more-than-background roles and certain groups of fans incessantly whining over it. Perhaps there's a deeper issue within a portion of the Dragon Ball fanbase that should be addressed?

How exactly are you gonna address that?
I don't know. I never said I was going to address it. It's not something that one person can really address, more a wider gradual change in mindset that would have to be set in motion. It's the kind of viewpoint that exists within someone's mind outside of their interest in Dragon Ball, which means it may not be appropriate to discuss in this thread, at least not now.

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Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

Post by Spider-Man » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:32 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
I just felt like Toei didn't know how to handle her in combat. It's like they wanted to make her a big deal in Tournament Of Power, but got cold feet every time. Like, the first thing we see her when she transforms in Episode 101 do is tangle with #17 (a SSJB tier fighter). And then she fights SSJ Vegeta and you get the idea she's incredibly powerful.

Then, in the episode right after 110, the episode where Goku used SSJB to take down a powered up Ribrianne, she nearly gets defeat by Vegeta in his base form. Then she morphs into some Giant Kaiju like form and you think this would be the start of being a major threat, but #18 then just one shots her and she's eliminated.

In my honest opinion, out of all the new characters in Dragon Ball Super, Ribrianne is the most inconsistently written in the entire show, and that is really saying something. That being said, I enjoyed her dynamic with #18 and character moment after being defeated was nice.
It was episode 102 when she transform.

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Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

Post by CJStriker_CBR » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:07 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Weejus wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:I didn't outright "hate" anything the arc offered, but there were many aspects that disappointed me quite a bit:
- The writing and direction (for the most part) for Episodes 87, 89, 100, 106, 119, 124 and 126
- The reveal of Universe 7 having only 28 planets inhabited by mortals
- Universe 10 contributing nothing
- The mishandling of Ribiranne
- The terrible treatment Tien received before and during the Tournament Of Power
- The 48 minute time limit which hindered the structure of the narrative
- The red herring of Universe 4 having an ace up their sleeve and it leading to nothing
- The "No flight allowed" stipulation which was almost immediately ignored
- The complete waste and mismanagement of Hakaishin Toppo in Episode 126
- The over usage at times of the peanut gallery
- The mention of Gohan achieving a new form and doing nothing with that statement after that
- The plot point of Vegeta having nearly no energy left at the end of Episode 126 and then transforming right at the beginning of Episode 127
- Constantly teasing Kale and Caulifla attaining SSJ3 and then not following through with either character getting the form
- The Tournament Of Power being reduced to Universe 7 vs Everyone Else after Episode 112
- Doing a slowburn approach of Jiren's characterization and development

Despite all these issues I have, I think the Universal Survival arc is the second best arc in all of Dragon Ball.
How do you feel Ribrianne was mishandled?
I just felt like Toei didn't know how to handle her in combat. It's like they wanted to make her a big deal in Tournament Of Power, but got cold feet every time. Like, the first thing we see her when she transforms in Episode 101 do is tangle with #17 (a SSJB tier fighter). And then she fights SSJ Vegeta and you get the idea she's incredibly powerful.

Then, in the episode right after 110, the episode where Goku used SSJB to take down a powered up Ribrianne, she nearly gets defeat by Vegeta in his base form. Then she morphs into some Giant Kaiju like form and you think this would be the start of being a major threat, but #18 then just one shots her and she's eliminated.

In my honest opinion, out of all the new characters in Dragon Ball Super, Ribrianne is the most inconsistently written in the entire show, and that is really saying something. That being said, I enjoyed her dynamic with #18 and character moment after being defeated was nice.
Unless Toei gives use any kind of reasons from their desks as to why they where up and down with her power level I, think by one of my theories after watching the whole of the ToP that the best way that might explain why it was so up and down was by the story itself the ToP was telling after a certain point. At the start the story seemed more even and like it was building up characters like Kale, Ribrianne and even the whole of U11 and U6 as the main threats to U7 winning the ToP.

But along the way mostly after the Special, 109-110 is when allot changed and the story just become the next ones up against U7 to fight and then fall. I believe that it was in the original story at the start that Ribrianne, Kale and others where being built up as main end threats, but likely threw either Editorial Mandate, Executive, Production or even Marketing interference the story got change to it being just focus on U7 gaining more of the Victories and looking the best they can.

This is not the say the moments characters from U7 had should not be their or celebrated, I am happy many got their moments many fans wanted to see. It just feels the writers where likely made to change their story on a dime cause after the special the pacing and how the characters interacted in the fights where just them being lined-up to be ringed-out by U7.

IMO this could be the reasons Ribrianne was nerfed down so much with little reasoning as to why.

However the writers still told a good story of growth and characterization about her as much as they could which I was please they fit in thier, they just failed in powering scaling her to what they promised at the start, but it likely they where interfered with is my theory to change the story.

Again this is just one of my theories, only Toei has the real answer.
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Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

Post by MarCas92 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:44 pm

No doubt about it, for me:

THE PACING

Although there are highs here and there with fantastic animation and character moments (Muten Roshi's Kamehameha, Anything with Freeza, Kefla's Elminiation, The Final 3 on 1 Fight). Everything else felt either predictable, boring or was simply a waste of time. There is so much fluff in this arc. There was no reason for it to be as long as it was. By the time Piccolo was eliminated I was already praying for this arc to end ASAP.
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Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

Post by Chuquita » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:03 pm

Only thing I outright hated about this arc was the creepy Roshi stuff he did to Yurin and Uni 4 Dragon Quest-looking girl.

Now I change it from stuff I hated to stuff I strongly disliked, you'll get a longer list.

30 Things I strongly disliked about the Universe Survival Arc (in no particular order) :
-The arc was too long. I feel cheated out of what could've been a 15 to 20 episode long TOP followed by 2 to 3 more new story arcs. I was so tired by months of endless fighting in the same locale that it dulled the impact of what would've been an emotional punch of Super itself going on hiatus. (Unless tiring me out with repetition was the point so I wouldn't be that upset about said hiatus in which case...congratulations?)
-Jiren who went from being boring to being uninteresting to me. I didn't like Sasuke in Naruto, I don't like Outer Space Sasuke in DBS.
-I don't like Jiren's design either.
-The TOP arena is incredibly boring to look at. I was hoping for a more Hunger Games style arena.
-No one could decide where the hell Vegeta's head-space is supposed to be this arc; how he reacted varied too much between writers.
-Royal Blue Vegeta still looks strange and it's one of those things I can only really salvage for myself through interpretive fan-art.
-Dropped plot points and red herrings galore.
-I still think the Omni Kings are annoying. I only really connected with them when they were saying their goodbyes to Goku because it sunk in that this was gonna be it for weekly DB for an undetermined period of time.
-I don't even care about power levels but that stamina stuff was a joke.
-Making the tournament 48 minutes long created more logistical problems than they really needed. How about make it 24 hours? 12 hours? Something that'd help make the number of episodes to time make more sense.
-Not enough mystery. Not enough plot twists. Coming off the Goku Black arc the TOP felt too straightforward and lacking in speculation.
-Not enough plot.
-Whis giving Freeza his life back. Freeza's an irredeemable character in my eyes; he's the most villainous character in Dragon Ball; I don't like seeing him rewarded and I hope Shallot or Yamoshi or whoever pulls a Future Trunks in the movie and kills off Freeza to show how strong they are.
-Gowasu's team was incredibly disappointing. We just spent a whole arc with this guy and you're going to give him nothing but a team of useless throwaway characters? Really?
-Those Uni 3 Robots were so boring.
-The Buu bait and switch for the 2nd time. If you're not going to use him, don't tease people for the 2nd time that you're going to use him and not go through with it.
-The mean-spirited stuff they did to Yamcha. That was unnecessarily cruel.
-Introducing too many new characters in one go. I followed this show week to week and I know so very few of the new characters' names. Cut down the number of universes participating OR spend a couple arcs before the TOP being involved with the other universes like we were with Uni 10.
-Toei was not prepared for the logistics of a battle royale, imo. It looks like it works fine in manga format, but it's not something that translates as well to a weekly TV show.
-Whis using his powers to birth Bra was strange and anticlimactic. I'd rather have had a Bulma goes to the hospital to give birth episode. You don't have to show the birth; have it happen off-screen. Use allusions and stuff.
-Not getting to see 17's family; especially since they have him show Goku a picture on his phone, but not the audience.
-I wish the Fireballs' ki-based attacks had actual side effects to them like a lot of Precure attacks do; I wanted to see some elemental ki attacks or finishers that stun the opponent with love, even temporarily.
-I'm not even that big on Tenshinhan, but man what a dull way for him to be rung out.
-Not getting to catch a glimpse of the Salad King of Universe 6 after we follow Cabba to what I presume is Planet Salad. I've got this head-canon of the king as Vegeta with that beard from DBS episode 30 and I want to know if I'm anywhere close to correct on that.
-How rushed the ending was. It really felt like they originally thought they had 1 or 2 more episodes to play with and only realized too late about the Tokyo and Nagoya marathons.
-The 28 planets left with sentient life on them in U7 thing kills a lot of possible future plots for no good reason.
-Poor Trunks, Marron, and Goten are never going to look their age, are they?
-The recruitment episodes for the most part felt like they were wasting time; I'd rather have had more introductions to more of the characters we'd be fighting than reintroducing ones we know, OR spend half an episode on a U7 recruitment and the other half on one of the other universes and do that for a while.
-What was Jiren's wish? We'll never know; apparently.
-Piccolo's elimination was so bad that I can't even recall how it happened without looking it up.


I think that's about it. I could be forgetting something, but oh well if I did.
This arc in general was a very double-sided thing for me. It was not a total waste; there were some shining, enjoyable moments among the endless everything else that made it worthwhile enough to keep watching (because believe me if I really couldn't stand it or had been completely bored/turned off I'd have turned it off and dropped it like I have other franchises and shows) but man was the TOP more tiresome than it was fun.
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Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

Post by MajinMan » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:39 pm

The trashcan that is Vegeta’s chatacterization in this arc.

Not once did I think coming off of the Future Trunks arc that Vegeta would be my least favorite character in this arc. When people mention characters or episodes being soulless or badly written, the first thing that pops into my mind is Vegeta. I cannot understand how people were left satisfied with his treatment in this arc. As someone who really likes Vegeta’s character, especially in the previous arc, where I felt he had some of his best moments, I was so incredibly let down.

After Bra was born, his character turned into “Cell Arc Vegeta.” All he did was brag, boast, ignore and shit talk everyone else on his team, and talk about how he is going to win the Super Dragon Balls. One of the worst parts was how he never really got any build up before the tournament. He was just there, and when the time came to focus on him, it got even worse. Over and over again he would bring up his pride and his promise to Cabba. After the third time, I could not care less.

It all concluded with the dumpster fire that was episode 126, where he eliminated Toppo. This episode nearly destroyed all excitement I had for the finale. That was one of the worst episodes in Super for many, many reasons. Vegeta’s incredible redundency, the utter waste of a character that was Toppo, the incredibly lack luster battle between them, and the fact that Vegeta had ZERO consequence in the next episode despite using a really draining attack. I cannot for the life of me understand how some “Vegeta fans” were satisfied with this. Was it because he “finally got a kill?” Let’s be real here, it probably was. And after “blowing himself up,” he just transforms again in the next episode like nothing happened. People mention the stamina problems in this arc, but this is the only one that truly bothered me. Goku for all the times he recovered his stamina, never did it instantly in the very next episode. He at least showed a LITTLE sign of fatigue before ramping up again.

In the end, I was just so happy to see him get eliminated. His character had become an abysmal, redundant mess, and had to be put out of its misery. It did not deserve to be treated this way. And oh god, don’t even get me started on his new form.
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Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

Post by The Patrolman » Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:13 am

Dragon Ball Gus wrote:Kefla getting eliminated after only 3 episodes of screentime. :( :evil: :x
Thats a positive in my book
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Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:51 am

Spider-Man wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
I just felt like Toei didn't know how to handle her in combat. It's like they wanted to make her a big deal in Tournament Of Power, but got cold feet every time. Like, the first thing we see her when she transforms in Episode 101 do is tangle with #17 (a SSJB tier fighter). And then she fights SSJ Vegeta and you get the idea she's incredibly powerful.

Then, in the episode right after 110, the episode where Goku used SSJB to take down a powered up Ribrianne, she nearly gets defeat by Vegeta in his base form. Then she morphs into some Giant Kaiju like form and you think this would be the start of being a major threat, but #18 then just one shots her and she's eliminated.

In my honest opinion, out of all the new characters in Dragon Ball Super, Ribrianne is the most inconsistently written in the entire show, and that is really saying something. That being said, I enjoyed her dynamic with #18 and character moment after being defeated was nice.
It was episode 102 when she transform.
Ah, you're right. My mistake.

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